Northern Busway - Final Stage might be scrapped

[#Metro]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbanes-northern-busway-final-stage-may-be-scrapped-says-scott-emerson/story-e6freoof-1226394351271

I'm not going to disagree too much here - I think the busway should go as far as Chermside or Aspley at the most for the near to medium term.
Too much concrete! Further than that - there is this wonderful thing called a rail line, and for the FRACTION of the cost of new infrastructure, cross town buses could be placed on the grid roads to feed passengers into it. Put more trains on the line, and scrap the last section of busway (or at least delay it).

The Eastern Busway is really important - I can see how worthwhile that is, but that said, a near term fix may be to have median busway lanes in Class B ROW pending proper extension of the E. Busway. Ashphalt over the tram lines and draw in busway lanes.

TransLink generally changes the network when new sections of infrastructure open. The thing is though - the two things are logically separate. You can change the network and service patterns without having to open new infrastructure. You just need to change the routing (steam ironing) and so forth.

Core Frequent Network should really be the main focus, and with the Govt cutting back in a lot of places, really really is probably the one idea that will survive major cuts to spending. CFN is cheap, and in many cases will actually save money!

[colinw]

Looks like people are starting to get worried about where this is leading, for example:

Reg Posted at 2:54 PM Today

    The Redcliffe rail link will be the next to go when Newman backtracks in his share of the cost

and

Fay of Beenleigh Posted at 3:11 PM Today

    I presume that means the Southern busway extension is also going to be scrapped. It ws due to be built to the Logan Hyperdome over the next few years to help alleviate the problems of bus commuters who use the 555 Route to Brisbane everyday during peak hour. what about the upgrade of Beenleighs bus timetable I presume we'll have to wait for another 20 years to get half hourly buses instead of hourly too.

While public transport is not yet the election changing issue it is in NSW & Victoria, I think people are starting to wake up to some hard realities. Governments will mess with Brisbane / SEQ public transport at their own peril!

Like TT, I am not inclined to complain about the Bracken Ridge section, as that area really is better served by improved rail service & bus/rail integration. Chermside remains critical, as does the Eastern busway, both of which are missing major transit routes since the demise of their long lost tramways. So much effort just to get back to where we were, will we ever learn?

[achiruel]

Logan hypodome, surely it can just continue down the current freeway with "busway" stations built off the freeway as required, just like Springwood.

Redcliffe line axing, this would be a brave move.

The problem with this is that it does nothing to alleviate the terrible congestion that occurs on the M3 around the M1/M3 merge.  I think even if the busway could be extended as far as Rochedale to bypass this mess it would make a huge difference.

Regarding busway to Bracken Ridge, is it really needed beyond Chermside?  I haven't been a frequent user of the 330 but whenever I've caught it most of the congestion seems to be south of Chermside.

Could Kedron to Chermside be helped in the short term with on-road bus or T3 lanes?

[colinw]

The problem with this is that it does nothing to alleviate the terrible congestion that occurs on the M3 around the M1/M3 merge.  I think even if the busway could be extended as far as Rochedale to bypass this mess it would make a huge difference.

Exactly.  In afternoon peak, and randomly at other times, southbound buses leave Eight Mile Plains busway and immediately run into a traffic jam. In really bad conditions it can take as long to get from EMP to Springwood as it took to get from Southbank to EMP.

Busway as far as Rochedale or Springwood would fix this. Beyond there, bus lanes or bus/T2 lanes would be sufficient for now.

[colinw]

Seriously mixed messages coming from the Minister about this!

http://statements.cabinet.qld.gov.au/MMS/StatementDisplaySingle.aspx?id=79535

...

eneral Busway facts

• Planning is underway for future stages from Kedron to Bracken Ridge
• Brisbane's busway network is 27 kilometres long, with 24 busway stations and interchanges.
• An average busway can carry more than 12,000 passengers per hour in each direction.
• Around 5.2 million passengers travel on busways each month.
• Thanks to the busway, up to 50 million fewer car trips will be made on Brisbane's roads each year.
• Busways effectively halve the pollution that bus routes would normally produce if they were required to operate in standard traffic.

[#Metro]

While public transport is not yet the election changing issue it is in NSW & Victoria, I think people are starting to wake up to some hard realities. Governments will mess with Brisbane / SEQ public transport at their own peril!

Like TT, I am not inclined to complain about the Bracken Ridge section, as that area really is better served by improved rail service & bus/rail integration. Chermside remains critical, as does the Eastern busway, both of which are missing major transit routes since the demise of their long lost tramways. So much effort just to get back to where we were, will we ever learn?

The concrete:services ratio is waaaaay out of wack. So much money is being blown up on concrete fiestas and then running paltry 2tph or 4bph on it! Not all concrete is bad - Cross River Rail and the Bus Tunnel in the city is required, but beyond that, a lot could be done with T2 lanes (Sir Fred Schonell Drive, Wynnum Road, Coronation Drive), a lot could be done if a bus, ANY bus was put on, completion of the Core Frequent Network and fixing up the great circle line, Class B ROW as an interim measure for the Eastern Busway.

Concrete is big, it is expensive, it is sexy, it looks good on MP's newsletters that go into mailboxes, but what people need, outside core capacity upgrades are SERVICES. There is a massive train line up on the northside and they have a GRID ROAD SYSTEM, so use it!

Waste not, want not!!

[achiruel]

Exactly.  In afternoon peak, and randomly at other times, southbound buses leave Eight Mile Plains busway and immediately run into a traffic jam. In really bad conditions it can take as long to get from EMP to Springwood as it took to get from Southbank to EMP.

Busway as far as Rochedale or Springwood would fix this. Beyond there, bus lanes or bus/T2 lanes would be sufficient for now.

Also people should remember it's not only the 555 that benefits from this there are a lot of peak hour expresses run by LCBS that would bypass traffic too.

[Mr X]

Finishing the section between Federation St, Windsor and the start of the newest section should be a priority. As should the next stage of the Eastern Busway, provided the 200 actually uses it.

Cleveland Solution = scrap
Northern Busway past Chermside = scrap
Eastern Busway past Carindale = scrap (bus lanes)

[Jonno]

Of course there is no mention of cancelling all the freeway expansion projects!!  What a double standard!! Yaa let's keep building more of the cause of our congestion and stop building solutions that can fix it !!! Smart!!! NOT!!

[HappyTrainGuy]

YAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most useless bit of proposed infrastructure on the Northside. Honestly buslanes could just to the job as good as a busway as there are limited stops along its route. At Kuran Street intersection outbound just add an extra light cycle so the 77 can access Kuran Street/allow buses to progress to the right hand side of Gympie Road to feed into Chermside via Hamilton Road.

I will honestly throw eggs at people if there is a busway to Bracken Ridge. FIX THE DAMN BUS/RAIL CONNECTION SERVICES! NOT MORE BUS INFRASTRUCTURE! People that live at Bracken Ridge should be shuffled onto the railway. I haven't checked the new 330 timetable but 22 bus during morning peak hour is just stupid considering there is a heavy rail line with way more capacity just minutes away. If needed build that road to Carseldine to make services easier to feed into a station.

[achiruel]

Is there capacity on the rail line during peak hour though?  If not can capacity be increased through minimal infrastructure such as improved signalling?  Do we need to extend quadruplication to Carseldine?  I'd be reluctant to extend it to Strathpine due to the $ involved in crossing the Bald Hills floodplains (we need to save $ remember!)

[SurfRail]

Is there capacity on the rail line during peak hour though?  If not can capacity be increased through minimal infrastructure such as improved signalling?  Do we need to extend quadruplication to Carseldine?  I'd be reluctant to extend it to Strathpine due to the $ involved in crossing the Bald Hills floodplains (we need to save $ remember!)

I don't think we ever need 4 tracks between Northgate and Strathpine, although 4 tracks between Strathpine and Petrie sounds good.  Trouts Road is probably dead for a generation, but there is still no sense in overcooking what we have left to work with.

[ozbob]

Of course there is no mention of cancelling all the freeway expansion projects!!  What a double standard!! Yaa let's keep building more of the cause of our congestion and stop building solutions that can fix it !!! Smart!!! NOT!!

Here we come ...   

[somebody]

While public transport is not yet the election changing issue it is in NSW & Victoria, I think people are starting to wake up to some hard realities. Governments will mess with Brisbane / SEQ public transport at their own peril!

I'm going to be pedantic here.  SEQ public transport needs to be messed with!  They will leave it alone at their peril.

I'm sure that's what you meant.

Finishing the section between Federation St, Windsor and the start of the newest section should be a priority. As should the next stage of the Eastern Busway, provided the 200 actually uses it.

Cleveland Solution = scrap
Northern Busway past Chermside = scrap
Eastern Busway past Carindale = scrap (bus lanes)

I'm inclined to agree, generally.  But I think there is little chance of either.  I wouldn't say "scrap" the busways, but I don't see why we'd build them now with the service provision which generally applies after such things.

With the EB, 90% of the value was in 5% of the cost - the queue jump from O-C Rd to Main Ave.

[O_128]

With the EB, 90% of the value was in 5% of the cost - the queue jump from O-C Rd to Main Ave.

Totally agree perhaps a media release highlighting this should be written. Seeing as the new gov is desperate to cut cost an analysis over the NB and EB routes should be done as to where money can be spent for the best benefit.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Is there capacity on the rail line during peak hour though?  If not can capacity be increased through minimal infrastructure such as improved signalling?  Do we need to extend quadruplication to Carseldine?  I'd be reluctant to extend it to Strathpine due to the $ involved in crossing the Bald Hills floodplains (we need to save $ remember!)

Trains are already every 5-7 minutes during peak hour. Plenty of capacity to boot. There could be a few more services squeezed in but Petrie problems and rollingstock availability limit them. People just need to learn that there is space available down the trains. Smacking asile seat hogs should also be allowed but that's unlikely to happen haha. There are still free seats before Northgate between 7.30-8am (School kids bail at Bray Park, Westfield workers bail at Strathpine, school kids get off at Bald Hills, primary school/high school students bail at Zillmere, workers bail at Geebung, a few workers bail at Sunshine and Virginia has a few students bailing there aswell). When Kippa Ring comes online off peak it would be 15 mins with peak hour services starting from Caboolture, Kippa Ring and a few Petrie starters in the height of peak to help with any overcrowding becuase of the Kippa Ring extension.

IIRC unofficially QR have no plans/not ideal on the infrastructure projects list for having 4 tracks between Northgate-Bald Hills due to the sheer cost of it (very expensive between Virginia-Carseldine and at Bald Hills. Bald Hills is very tight. Clearences would be a possible issue/very close there. There is space north of Zillmere yet it would be very tight/slower track speeds. Zillmere road overpass/shops need to go. Geebung car park gets removed along with the pipeworks place and the car detailers getting the chop. Through Sunshine the track would go along the Sunshine depot/siding side. Virgina would need a complete overhaul to the platforms and road bridge) and as long as the Trouts road Corridor is still on the books (it might not be soon but the corridor has been reserved for about 30 or more so years now.

Strathpine-Petrie quad can go ahead with minimal cost as Road Bridges and corridor spacing was detailed designed for a future quad back in the early/mid 90's. I doubt its changed but back then it was track on the left hand side of Strathpine station with it crossing back to the right hand side before the Samsonvale Road overpass and following it all the way to Petrie. A bridge was supposed to go over the tracks linking Francis Road to Gympie Road (which is currently being constructed) to enable a quad through lawnton with the removal of the level crossing there.

[somebody]

TransLink generally changes the network when new sections of infrastructure open. The thing is though - the two things are logically separate. You can change the network and service patterns without having to open new infrastructure. You just need to change the routing (steam ironing) and so forth.

Nothing was changed with the EB in the BT network - just new stuff really.

[colinw]

While public transport is not yet the election changing issue it is in NSW & Victoria, I think people are starting to wake up to some hard realities. Governments will mess with Brisbane / SEQ public transport at their own peril!

I'm going to be pedantic here.  SEQ public transport needs to be messed with!  They will leave it alone at their peril.

I'm sure that's what you meant.

Indeed it was.  By "mess with" I meant ignored or changed in a negative manner. 

[WTN]

Of course there is no mention of cancelling all the freeway expansion projects!!  What a double standard!! Yaa let's keep building more of the cause of our congestion and stop building solutions that can fix it !!! Smart!!! NOT!!

Here we come ...

Some (smaller) road projects got canned I believe.

Oh wait, we need those bigger freeways! Superdupermegamassive freeways! Bigger is better! We need 1000+ lanes of them through our city so we can demolish 6 suburbs worth of property and finally shutdown money wasting public transport. Congestion will be history! (end sarcasm lol).