15 mins to Northgate using the Suburban tracks (inc electrifying Bindha siding)

[Arnz]

Looking at Google maps, there's a disused siding in the vicinity of Bindha Station.  I wonder how much would it cost to clean that up and electrify the sidings so to turn-back trains there?   Would need wires + turnback platform with cleaning materials.

Track diagrams has access to the Bindha siding for outbound trains by crossing onto the inbound track. 
Diagram:

           ===\============[Bindha Platform]=====To Shorncliffe
To City======\=========[Bindha Platform]======
                          ============== (disused siding)

Having that siding cleaned up and electrified would enable 15 min off-peak service to Northgate on the suburbans, with station staff helping out empty the train, then head off to the Bindha siding for turnback.  Trains could continue to Manly in sync with Beenleigh, Gold Coast and Cleveland to form 7.5 mins combined off-peak freq across the Merivale, whilst allowing the off-peak/weekend Petrie/Caboolture/Nambour trains to skip A+W and T+N.

Once the Sandgate/Shorncliffe upgrades (and duplication?) is done (or ever gets off the ground), then the Bindha turnback would be made redundant (or could be converted to a yard) with trains continuing to Shorncliffe as originally planned.

[somebody]

The question is: Why?

Extending the Richlands trains along the Caboolture line is what should be done, and these wouldn't need to serve A/W/T/Nundah.

Ideally, we'd have a 15 minute frequency all the way to Shorncliffe.  A world class operator could do it easily on current infrastructure.

[Arnz]

Expresses eat up track capacity, whilst the Suburbans handle the A+W and T+N traffic.  Mains either have to be all-stops, or express using the same patterns.

Extending Richlands trains to Petrie would be more than ideal.  I could argue for Petrie/Caboolture/Nambour trains to skip A+W and T+N full-time while all passenger traffic on the suburbans handle the off-peak A+W and T+N traffic (including the Airport line in a ideal situation).

[Arnz]

Ideally, we'd have a 15 minute frequency all the way to Shorncliffe.  A world class operator could do it easily on current infrastructure.

Didn't Derwan (and others on the Shorncliffe line) already pointed out the issues with Sandgate?

[somebody]

Expresses eat up track capacity, whilst the Suburbans handle the A+W and T+N traffic. 

Not an issue outside of peak times.

Extending Richlands trains to Petrie would be more than ideal. 

It would mean that these trains are stopping at Albion and Wooloowin at the same time as the Shorncliffe trains.

Ideally, we'd have a 15 minute frequency all the way to Shorncliffe.  A world class operator could do it easily on current infrastructure.

Didn't Derwan (and others on the Shorncliffe line) already pointed out the issues with Sandgate?

The operators should harden up.

I reiterate: A world class operator would have no trouble operating 4tph to Shorncliffe on current infrastructure, even running through a single platform at Sandgate.

[Arnz]

It would mean that these trains are stopping at Albion and Wooloowin at the same time as the Shorncliffe trains.

Richlands to Petrie trains wouldn't be stopping there. Suburbans are handling the A+W traffic. 

The mains would be serving only EJ + NG, combined with the traveltrain and freight slots to North Qld inbetween the passenger trains serving the mains. 

I would argue for the mains to serve only EJ+NG full time whilst the suburbans are handling the A+W and T+N traffic, this involves getting 4tph at least to those 4 stations on the suburbans in some form (either all the way to Shorncliffe or only partially up the line).

[somebody]

Hmm, so then the short working to Petrie is faster than the longer train to Caboolture?  Shouldn't that train extend to Caboolture?

[Arnz]

^^ As I said ALL passenger trains on the mains would be expressing through A+W and T+N full-time.  That is Petrie, Caboolture and Nambour.   From Northgate to Lawnton, Petrie and Caboolture trains uses the westbound track, whilst the Nambour express using the middle track.

Whilst all trains (except Airport?) on the suburbans would be serving A+W and T+N.  Which involves delivery of 4tph to Northgate on the suburbans in some form (either all the way to Shorncliffe or only partially up the line) In a ideal world however the Airport trains would also serve A+W.

(Edit 11:48am: Getting Suburbans and Mains mixed up)

[somebody]

Ah ok.

I don't see this happening in the current environment.  It's regrettable, but it seems to be the case.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Track speed is less than 25kph along the whole siding as it leads to the yard up the road. Apparently the yard up the road is under review for a stabling facility for rollingstock/track machines. The Golden Circle siding is fenced off/cemented over in parts. Anyway, no mods can be applied until the timetable changes go through. Sandgate-Cleveland is pretty much the default track pair now however it can't be Cleveland-Shorncliffe as its out by about 10 or so mins (At night its Mayne-Roma Street-Shorncliffe-Shorncliffe-Cleveland-Cleveland-Bowen Hills-Mayne). Don't expect to see Richlands to Petrie trains anytime soon especially when construction work starts around Petrie (car parking is getting removed, stabling is getting removed, track speed restrictions Petrie-Lawnton, track realignment works for the bridge (You might be able to squeeze a thrid track through but at speed.... i dunno), earthworks around Lanwton and Petrie etc).

[somebody]

Don't expect to see Richlands to Petrie trains anytime soon especially when construction work starts around Petrie (car parking is getting removed, stabling is getting removed, track speed restrictions Petrie-Lawnton, track realignment works for the bridge (You might be able to squeeze a thrid track through but at speed.... i dunno), earthworks around Lanwton and Petrie etc).

So why not push for Strathpine?  Blocking the middle road I don't see as a huge deal.  It's underutilised anyway.

Seems achievable, and more easily than Petrie which would have a conflicting move somewhere.

[Derwan]

Didn't Derwan (and others on the Shorncliffe line) already pointed out the issues with Sandgate?

Once the Sandgate upgrade is complete, they will run more frequent PEAK services.  I'm not sure what that will be - but it'd have to be at least 4tph.

The Shorncliffe Line currently has low patronage so I doubt they'd run 4tph off-peak (yet).  Areas around stations along the Shorncliffe Line have low population densities and the council continues to make stupid decisions like approving the development of a respite centre just near Boondall Station (where a higher density residential development would be far more logical).

Using the siding towards Bindha has been suggested before.  (I think I suggested it one time.)  However I don't think it will happen - and no longer think that it's necessary.

I think that apart from the Air Train and Gympielander, no trains will run express between Bowen Hills and Northgate after the sector 2 updates.  I think that the Petrie/Caboolture line will get off-peak frequency upgrades before the Shorncliffe Line - but even if they get regular express patterns, I think they will still run all stations to Northgate.

[somebody]

   Ips - Cab 20min, express Albion/WW and miss a few stops between Darra and Milton + NG to Petrie
1 train per hour of above is starts from Rosewood and heads up NCL as far as track conditions all. Some to Nambour, others shorter with bus connection. This train is IMU set for toilets and longer running

Agree with your thinking, more or less.  To eliminate the "dance of the trains" between Landsborough and Nambour, frequency needs to reduce to 2 hourly on present infrastructure.  But it's only 90 minute anyway.  Landsborough is the main station on the line, it would be a shame to require a bus to reach there.  Which means we probably need to duplicate something between Landsborough and Beerburrum.

[somebody]

Agree, 1hr to Lands need to be the goal. Can it be done with current infratsructure and still allow for other users?

Have to check my model in spare time

No, when I checked.  I was assuming a pass in the triple to Lawnton region though

[Arnz]

Would be easier to aim for Glasshouse-Landsborough duplication.  That alignment is cheaper to build, most land on that alignment is already resumed and it's shovel ready.  it would also eliminate the Beerwah precision cross on most Southbound services, saving city bound passengers a few minutes.

The Beerburrum-Glasshouse part is a bit more difficult as some land in that area IIRC has not been acquired yet, the extra roadworks and crossings occur mostly in that area as that bit requires the most work.

[Arnz]

I would also have to say if it's hourly to Landsborough (with 2-hourly to Nambour + 2 daily Gympielanders), I would recommend 2 buses, the express to Nambour and the all-stopper 'local' service.  The all-stopper could also serve as one of the few "hail and ride" routes.  Both routes would be operated by Sunbus as it is the closest operator with depots at Caloundra and Marcoola (that is assuming they retain the bus services contract for another 5 year term)

Probably going to fix up the Landsborough interchange too, current capacity can fit 4 buses (2 at the station building side and 2 on park side).  They just need to fix the park side, it's a bit of a squeeze for a bus to get through on the occasions there are 4 or more buses (649 Railbus, 605 Kawana via Caloundra, 615 Maroochydore via University and Maleny Qconnect service)

[Arnz]

I had thought of recent duplication recently, and linked to the LNP government's recent financial audit, if it's feasible to aim for the Beerwah-Glasshouse Mtns section to be duplicated next on the new alignment (basically one long 140km/h loop instead of the current 120km/h track), which basically at least enables 45 mins to Landsborough during the day between 9am and 3pm (retains every 90 mins to Nambour).  The weekends (Sat and Sun) could be 9-4pm (reverts to 90 min freq to Nambour after the 4:13pm departure ex-Nambour)

Duplicating the Glasshouse Mtns-Beerwah eliminates the precision crossing delay for most City-bound trains (3 min timetabled crossing wait at Beerwah), and at least improves reliability in case one or the other is running at least 5-7 mins late (no need to wait at Beerwah (southbound) or Glasshouse Mtns (northbound) for a opposing delayed train).

This would require construction on the Glasshouse Mtns-Beerwah section, some minor station upgrades at Beerwah and Glasshouse Mtns (partial platform raising in the middle of both platforms at both stations, ala Petrie and Fortitude Valley), and perhaps a turnback siding at Landsborough (may require reconfiguring the triangle behind the Landsborough platforms).

As for connections, the route 649 railbuses would only need to be cut back to Landsborough-Nambour (perhaps have the contract transferred to one of the Sunshine Coast based operators), as well as a few more buses being required for increased 605 and 615s from Landsborough out to Kawana via Caloundra and Maroochydore via the University and Mooloolaba.   This would need to be marketed on both ends from most organisations including SC Council, TransLink, University of Sunshine Coast and various attractions. (It would market increased University of Sunshine Coast services for students from North Brisbane/Caboolture, the beaches, the few notable attractions (eg Aust Zoo, Underwater World, Ettamogah Pub(?), etc)).

[somebody]

45 minute frequency is doable without infrastructure changes.  Having said that, I agree with what you are proposing, and have proposed something like it before.  I think knocking back Landsborough-Nambour to 2-hourly frequency from 90 minute would be a big improvement so long as buses meet trains at Landsborough at times that trains terminate there.  Removes a precision cross, so no longer would delays cascade across services or amplify on delayed services due to missed crosses.