How to improve interstate freight? Whats the answer

[rtt_rules]

Hi All,
I have recently received the last 6mths of Railway Digest and an interesting article in one edition (details to be added later) on the Mel-Syd line.

General comments from article
- Despite many hundreds of millions being spent on Syd-Mel corridore over last 10 years since ARTC took over the line, the forecast increase in traffic as an outcome of this capital upgrade has netted almost no increase in capital to capital freight.

- Only 3 dedicated Syd-Mel return freights run each week. The rest of the loading is added to Mel-Bris services for which there is 300m of capacity on the train between Syd and Mel compared to Syd and Brisbane. Probably the biggest increase has actually come from grain that used to head nth from southern NSW now heads to a much closer port of Melbourne.

- The line now would be considered over engineered for the task and once the current mediation works are done, little further upgrading capital after from operation cost reduction projects that have direct payback will struggle to be funded.

- There are still some state based hangup such as the signally system which is different in each state.

- Curfew in Sydney limiting growth?

Ok, so there are number of ways to read this. With my gunzels hat on
- That most of the money work is sustaining and defered MTCE.
- The move away from line side signally was predictable even 10 years ago so why throw money at this apart from what was urgently required to eliminate staff system.
- The work is not complete with extended delays in trains due to the mudholes. Eg only recently has 3rd Albury train has re started. This will have some lag in contracts to how quickly this rolls across to freight
- The work hasn't dramatically reduced running times and until we break some magic barrier, rail will run 2nd to road on more time sensitive freight. But also the fact that goods in motion has cost and even if not urgent just having the materials not in your yard or that of your customers which is when you get paid then it adds cost to the product which is added to the rail freight costs.
- Not sure, but has the move to longer trains reduces services without an increase in overall tonnage?

My feeling is the last one is really significant and freight on the Syd-Mel leg will never be a major player until overnight delivery is more than pratical without breaking speed limits.

There have been numerous comments about Countrylink services filling in slots, but looking at ARTC timetable, Countrylink is a major user of both east coast interstates in NSW, more so than QRN in number of services. So not sure how much weight you can play on this and especially when dealing with a line with less than 10-12 movements each day.

Ok, so what to do? Such as throw $2B at the Syd-Mel line to >85% duplicate and realign to enable freighters to obtain Syd-Mel in 10-12hr and thus enabling true door to door overnight? Same build it and they will come approach as applied to current upgrades.

What are the rail operators saying?

Feedback welcome?

regards
Shane

[somebody]

I think complete the SSFL, fix up the mud holes and build the 3 big deviations proposed.  Less than that seems to leave it uncompetitive with road.  These things should do a fair bit to improve MEL-Bris freight which is only a little better.

I don't see the bang/buck in full duplication.  Passing lanes applying Albury-Junee should be adequate assuming they are all done.

[somebody]

Whats the big 3 deviations?

How much time do you think this will save?

They're called Centenial, Wentworth and Hoare IIRC.  I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but if you want precise info I'd suggest Google.  I believe it's a bit over an hour of saving and a few hundred kms of track to build, all in what is currently double track sections.

I think you are right on the passing lanes, but they must be alot longer than built to date, probably at least 10km, maybe 15km to enable smoother passing and with a set of higher speed cross overs mid way say you can have a 3 trains cross and incorporated into a speed advisory system that lets the driver know how fast to go before the cross to enable a cross without braking. The same system would be used on the duplicated section either side to get the trains spacing such that they can move through the single section with minimal braking for safe working.

I don't see the bang/buck in length extensions.  I think the points at the ends are 80km/h diverge which is a reasonable clip, although a train will still lose a fair bit of energy slowing from 115km/h to 80km/h.  Trick is to coast for a while when you know you are going to diverge to minimise the braking.  Not sure how that works in practice now, but once line side signals are removed it should be a whole heap more effective.

[ghostryder]

The major problem with the North South Corridor is Sydney. The SSFL will help to an extent the Mel-Syd corridor but thats about it, The benefits are lost if the train progresses onto or originates from Brisbane. The Curfew basically shuts down freight on rail from 6am to 9am 3pm to 7pm every working weekday. This curfew is not imposed on the  the road industry. Shunting facilities have caused some serious delays with trains arriving at 10.30pm in the evening still being shunted at 9am the next morning. Then you have the bottlenecks of Flemington Junction/Rhodes and Eastwood where freighters can spend upto 60 minutes or more waiting for a path out or through. Then you have operations that push an all stopper out in front of the freighter and instead of a 3hr journey to Islington it blows out to around 5 hours and once a freighter is off its path it slowly bleeds further time.

Then once you get out onto the North Coast line it is a slow progress, Gloucester to Taree is a slow twisting turning affair. With the bungle on the main south funds needed to ease the curves on the North Coast have been sent to fix the main south, with only projects on the North Coast continuing that were underway or are
required to repair mudholes etc.

scott

[somebody]

Is the Sandy Hollow - Parks- Coota route  suitable for freighters to by-pass Sydney?

There doesn't seem to be any focus on that option.  I think there is a concern that intermodals would impede coalies on the Ulan line single track.  @Merrygoen I believe the triangle is lacking but that's pretty trivial to fix.  Not sure of any other issues with that one.

Scott, some might say that the SSFL will help MEL-BNE as the footprint of the curfew will be reduced.  At least you will be able to reach Chullora (from Mel) unload/load up and be ready to go as soon as the curfew lifts from Chullora.  That's a damn sight better than being at Yass!

[somebody]

The coalies are about 1800m long to Ulan.  91 wagons + 3 locos IIRC.

Terrain makes track amplification relatively difficult.  Obviously not impossible, but still...

[somebody]

The coalies are about 1800m long to Ulan.  91 wagons + 3 locos IIRC.

Terrain makes track amplification relatively difficult.  Obviously not impossible, but still...

Ok wow, 1800m, any mid locos?

Nup, head end power only.

Rear banking applies over Ardglen, but those trains are only 72x 100t (gross) wagons.

[ghostryder]

Simon
when the SSFL opens fully all they will have done is push the problem a little further north. Shunting of freighters can take 4-6 hours and has at times taken 12, due to a log jam of freighters in the Sydney area. The curfew is a major issue that has to be worked around or removed. Since 2008 the following trains have ceased running.

1MB4/1BM4* 1MB7/1BM7* 2BM2 4BM2 5BM2 6BM2 5MB2 7MB2 1BA6 2AB6 4AB6 6MB7 6BM7 5WB3 6WB3 just to name a few. 4MB2 at times does not always run past Sydney and 5BA6 now only goes as far as Sydney and Run as 5BS6.

Railcorp sat on the plans for the SSFL and NSFC for 30 years preferring to not do anything, same with a flyover and better arrangements at Flemington Junction. They were concerned with the extra freight paths that they would have to find through their network. Rail needs advocates to push its cause and these issues can be overcome. Passing through Sydney could be easier if Railcorp was not so stubborn and narrow minded.

scott

[somebody]

Shunting of freighters can take 4-6 hours and has at times taken 12, due to a log jam of freighters in the Sydney area.

Surely this is something which is within the control of PN/QRN/SCT/ARTC.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Ah CityRail. Building infrastructure to nowhere and throwing the plans on platform 27

[somebody]

Ah CityRail. Building infrastructure to nowhere and throwing the plans on platform 27

Huh?

QR are the masters of the ill-conceived infrastructure project, not Cityrail!

S2K triple vs Cronulla Duplication
C2D quad vs Lidcombe/Homebush turnbacks & K2R Quad.
Park Rd platform 4!
Caboolture-Beerburrum duplication!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Platforms 26/27 at Central were used as storage space. Pretty sure they held tours there as part of some abandoned buildings of Sydney or something a few years ago.


Redfern has two uncompleted platforms.


This sums up their planning pretty well I should think lol.




St James street and the Museum station. Can't forget the ESR and the flooded tunnel under hyde park that is now used for irrigation. The disused railway lines and tunnels under Sydney are quite fascinating. All the images are from a quick google search.

[somebody]

Maybe we should just agree that neither are perfect.

Not sure what you are talking about @St James and @Museum though.

Picture #3 seems to be of Maldon-Dombarton which was killed by a change of government.  Perhaps #4 too.  Not sure what #5 is at all.

[SurfRail]

Simon
when the SSFL opens fully all they will have done is push the problem a little further north. Shunting of freighters can take 4-6 hours and has at times taken 12, due to a log jam of freighters in the Sydney area. The curfew is a major issue that has to be worked around or removed. Since 2008 the following trains have ceased running.

1MB4/1BM4* 1MB7/1BM7* 2BM2 4BM2 5BM2 6BM2 5MB2 7MB2 1BA6 2AB6 4AB6 6MB7 6BM7 5WB3 6WB3 just to name a few. 4MB2 at times does not always run past Sydney and 5BA6 now only goes as far as Sydney and Run as 5BS6.

Railcorp sat on the plans for the SSFL and NSFC for 30 years preferring to not do anything, same with a flyover and better arrangements at Flemington Junction. They were concerned with the extra freight paths that they would have to find through their network. Rail needs advocates to push its cause and these issues can be overcome. Passing through Sydney could be easier if Railcorp was not so stubborn and narrow minded.

scott

The problem would be less marked if more traffic was able to bypass Sydney completely (eg via Parkes/Werris Creek and one of the proposed new inland alignments).

[somebody]

Building the inland link would mean SYD-MEL and SYD-BNE can never compete as there won't be enough traffic on those lines to justify their existence, pushing unit costs too high.

You need to decide if you are willing to give up on that I guess.