Queensland Conservation Council critique of CityTrain, 1994

[colinw]

An interesting snippet from the recent history books.  A 1994 article by the QLD Conservation Council discussing shortcomings of the CityTrain system.

http://www.qccqld.org.au/docs/History/Trains.pdf

18 years later, most of what is written here remains hauntingly familiar.

[Gazza]

Well there we go.
Perth has had 4tph since 1993.

What was the population of Perth back then lol?

[#Metro]

Gee Whiz, have we learned anything!

"Brisbane's rail system has one of the highest cost recoveries and lowest subsidies of any in Australia..." whoops, what happened there?
guess what appears below.. TORONTO!!!

"CityTrain argues that they have a shortage of rollingstock, but this denies the fact that there is a surplus in the off peak" 

And the killer line: "Recent surveys have indicated that Perth's rail system performs much better...: LOL LOL

[colinw]

Well there we go.
Perth has had 4tph since 1993.

What was the population of Perth back then lol?

From the very beginning of their rail revival, Perth knew what Brisbane has yet to learn: there is no point in investing in infrastructure if it does not result in a corresponding improvement to services. 

Adelaide will be the same, as will Auckland.

Meanwhile in Brisbane it is (still) Groundhog Day.  2 Groundhogs per Hour.

Mind you, 4tph is hardly a "world class" benchmark, more of a "minimum service level to make it even worth having a railway".

Over suburban type distances, railways built for 2tph service really annoy me, as they really aren't doing any more than a decent bus service with a few priority measures could achieve.

[somebody]

Adelaide will be the same, as will Auckland.

Not sure why you are so optimistic about Auckland.  The recently opened Manukau station/branch has an hourly off peak service, and I think the Onehunga branch (2 station) has a half hourly one.

Now, perhaps things will dramatically improve with HOP (smart card ticketing) and electrification as you can reduce staff and change the economics of increased services, and I think there are signs that it may, but actually getting 15 minute off peak services doesn't appear to be on the horizon yet.

[colinw]

Adelaide will be the same, as will Auckland.

Not sure why you are so optimistic about Auckland.  The recently opened Manukau station/branch has an hourly off peak service, and I think the Onehunga branch (2 station) has a half hourly one.

Now, perhaps things will dramatically improve with HOP (smart card ticketing) and electrification as you can reduce staff and change the economics of increased services, and I think there are signs that it may, but actually getting 15 minute off peak services doesn't appear to be on the horizon yet.

Because Auckland has stated that their goal is a 10 minute base service frequency, and have contracted my employer to provide the signalling & ATP that would permit this to happen. I don't think it can occur with the initial fleet of 57 EMUs being built by CAF.

Britomart capacity is likely to be a major constraint as well, operation into a dead-end terminus being a feature that Auckland shares with Adelaide.

Manukau opened on Sunday, didn't it?

[somebody]

I believe that is correct re:Manukau

10 minute frequency will be fairly challenging while the Britomart dead end applies, with four or five different patterns required:
Western
Southern
Manukau
Onehunga
Eastern (could be combined with Manukau)

I think that will require the current unfunded city rail link plan, which is likely to be a near 10 year endeavour in the best plausible case scenario.

[somebody]

An interesting snippet from the recent history books.  A 1994 article by the QLD Conservation Council discussing shortcomings of the CityTrain system.

http://www.qccqld.org.au/docs/History/Trains.pdf

18 years later, most of what is written here remains hauntingly familiar.

A couple of its recommendations have actually been implemented though.  Integrated fares, Richlands/Springfield line (even if it recommended Inala/Camira), and Kippa-Ring looks a go.

[Jonas Jade]

Also implemented: light rail on the Gold Coast and a line to the airport. 

[Jonno]

How about $1flat fare. Maybe flag call?

[Gazza]

How about $1flat fare

$1 fares to Cabulcha!!!!1!!


http://www.planning.wa.gov.au/dop_pub_pdf/population.pdf
To answer my own question. Perth had a population of 1.2 Million when they got high frequency trains.

Brisbane metro, is what, 2.1 Million at the moment.