CityCat terminal at the end of Park Rd

[ozbob]

Westside News

Both the LNP and Labor have promised to build a CityCat terminal at the end of Park Rd. It's been 13 years in the making.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1107249&l=ea12d20fdd&id=170074913043555

[somebody]

I'd rather they increased frequency at Milton rail.  It would be more useful.

[#Metro]

My main concern with more citycat stops is that each time another stop is added, the service speed is further degraded.
CityCats have a large dwell (2-3 minutes?). On an all stops paradigm, services will just get slower. Another stop is planned for West End.

The thing that bugs me with the CityCat is that there really isn't a proper bus-citycat interface were you can get off a busway station and walk over to the CityCat easily.
The exception here is Tenneriffe.

[SurfRail]

My main concern with more citycat stops is that each time another stop is added, the service speed is further degraded.
CityCats have a large dwell (2-3 minutes?). On an all stops paradigm, services will just get slower. Another stop is planned for West End.

The thing that bugs me with the CityCat is that there really isn't a proper bus-citycat interface were you can get off a busway station and walk over to the CityCat easily.
The exception here is Tenneriffe.

And West End.

UQ should be easy to fix.  I don't know why the terminal has to be where it is and not right next to to UQ Lakes like the Dutton Park ferry used to be.

[Gazza]

My main concern with more citycat stops is that each time another stop is added, the service speed is further degraded.
CityCats have a large dwell (2-3 minutes?). On an all stops paradigm, services will just get slower. Another stop is planned for West End.

I think at this end its ok because the river is less windy between the Terminus (UQ) and the CBD...Its a very unbalanced network...lots of stops in the east, but missing ones in the west.

I approve of a Park road one.

[somebody]

UQ should be easy to fix.  I don't know why the terminal has to be where it is and not right next to to UQ Lakes like the Dutton Park ferry used to be.

Not sure why that is a problem though?  It wouldn't be logical to come from a 169 to use the CityCat when you could use the 196 from Dutton Park or interchange at the Cultural Centre.  I guess unless you are heading to right near the ferry at West End.

[Gazza]

It makes  sense because UQ Lakes is like a transport hub...You can have everything in one spot, like amenties and the ticket machine.

[Golliwog]

Or if you were heading to somewhere near Guyatt Park or Toowong, rather than go around through the city or walk across campus to the 412. I don't see a massive crowd that would make these sorts of trips, but theres no real harm in shifting the ferry terminal around, particualrly seeing as the ones they have in currently are just the temporary ones until they rebuild them properly (thats my understanding anyway).

Either way, Gazza's point is really the best to be made. Why have two points when you can combine them into one and combine your service provision there instead of trying to split it.

[Gazza]

Why have two points when you can combine them into one

City stop locations

[achiruel]

I think there is becoming far too many stops in the CityCat network already.  CityCat engines are not designed for constant stop/start running it must be putting a horrible strain on them not to mention the amount of fuel used ($$$ & pollution).  A few years back BCC looked into replacing the existing CityFerry fleet with some cats smaller than the CityCat but similarly fast and more designed for frequent stopping.  What ever happened to that?  I think they would be ideal for serving the inner city river are e.g. Dockside to Milton.

As it is I would already like to ditch at least one of the CBD CityCat stops, although I'm not sure which one?

[somebody]

I actually think it should be a two part network.

UQ-West End-Guyatt Park

North Quay-Hamilton.

That would mean that Regatta doesn't get any ferries which could be unpopular.

And close River Plaza!  Mater Hill isn't that far away, nor is South Bank in the other direction.

[Golliwog]

I'd suggest QUT, because North Quay better serves that side of the CBD, and the riverwalk is right there. If the city cycle was intergrated with the go card...

You could also argue for South Bank 1+2 as you could run the network with the City Cat forming the line haul route, and use the smaller Cityferries to spread around the city. Would people really complain that much if when their Citycat pulled into North Quay there was a Cityferry sitting there to take them across the river, while the Citycat continued on up/downstream?

RE: Simon's post
I don't see why you want to remove the connection West End/Guyatt Park->Regatta->North Quay/onwards? I can MAYBE understand removing the run from North Quay->Regatta as it's competing with buses on Coro/199/Cityglider, but I still think it's possibly worth keeping. I certainly wouldn't support closing the Regatta.

[SurfRail]

I think there is becoming far too many stops in the CityCat network already.  CityCat engines are not designed for constant stop/start running it must be putting a horrible strain on them not to mention the amount of fuel used ($$$ & pollution).  A few years back BCC looked into replacing the existing CityFerry fleet with some cats smaller than the CityCat but similarly fast and more designed for frequent stopping.  What ever happened to that?  I think they would be ideal for serving the inner city river are e.g. Dockside to Milton.

As it is I would already like to ditch at least one of the CBD CityCat stops, although I'm not sure which one?

The KittyCat?  It still exists somewhere.  Somebody else would have to fill us in on why it didn't work out, I've never been clear.

[achiruel]

You could also argue for South Bank 1+2 as you could run the network with the City Cat forming the line haul route, and use the smaller Cityferries to spread around the city. Would people really complain that much if when their Citycat pulled into North Quay there was a Cityferry sitting there to take them across the river, while the Citycat continued on up/downstream?

Probably.  That was already available to people at Teneriffe, but the residents complained and complained until they got yet another stop added to the CityCat.

[somebody]

I don't see why you want to remove the connection West End/Guyatt Park->Regatta->North Quay/onwards? I can MAYBE understand removing the run from North Quay->Regatta as it's competing with buses on Coro/199/Cityglider, but I still think it's possibly worth keeping. I certainly wouldn't support closing the Regatta.

Regatta's a bit pointless if not connected to the eastern part of the network isn't it?  Only thing it connects to that the 412 doesn't is West End.

[SurfRail]

You could also argue for South Bank 1+2 as you could run the network with the City Cat forming the line haul route, and use the smaller Cityferries to spread around the city. Would people really complain that much if when their Citycat pulled into North Quay there was a Cityferry sitting there to take them across the river, while the Citycat continued on up/downstream?

I'd hazard a guess that the patronage at South Bank is a lot higher than at QUT - if so, they should be the ones getting the shuttle.

[Gazza]

I don't see why you want to remove the connection West End/Guyatt Park->Regatta->North Quay/onwards? I can MAYBE understand removing the run from North Quay->Regatta as it's competing with buses on Coro/199/Cityglider, but I still think it's possibly worth keeping. I certainly wouldn't support closing the Regatta.

Regatta's a bit pointless if not connected to the eastern part of the network isn't it?  Only thing it connects to that the 412 doesn't is West End.

Which is the whole point for having the stop!

[Golliwog]

You could also argue for South Bank 1+2 as you could run the network with the City Cat forming the line haul route, and use the smaller Cityferries to spread around the city. Would people really complain that much if when their Citycat pulled into North Quay there was a Cityferry sitting there to take them across the river, while the Citycat continued on up/downstream?

I'd hazard a guess that the patronage at South Bank is a lot higher than at QUT - if so, they should be the ones getting the shuttle.

Yes, if you were taking just one away from the Citycat, it'd be QUT no questions asked. But when it comes down to North Quay vs. South Bank 1+2 its a much tougher call. Though I suppose the CBD does have Riverside as well. Depends really on where people using the Citycat work in the CBD.

[somebody]

I don't see why you want to remove the connection West End/Guyatt Park->Regatta->North Quay/onwards? I can MAYBE understand removing the run from North Quay->Regatta as it's competing with buses on Coro/199/Cityglider, but I still think it's possibly worth keeping. I certainly wouldn't support closing the Regatta.

Regatta's a bit pointless if not connected to the eastern part of the network isn't it?  Only thing it connects to that the 412 doesn't is West End.

Which is the whole point for having the stop!

Which?  West End or Regatta-East?

[Golliwog]

I don't see why you want to remove the connection West End/Guyatt Park->Regatta->North Quay/onwards? I can MAYBE understand removing the run from North Quay->Regatta as it's competing with buses on Coro/199/Cityglider, but I still think it's possibly worth keeping. I certainly wouldn't support closing the Regatta.

Regatta's a bit pointless if not connected to the eastern part of the network isn't it?  Only thing it connects to that the 412 doesn't is West End.

Which is the whole point for having the stop!

Which?  West End or Regatta-East?

West End-Regatta

[somebody]

Hmm, that seems to have more value than the Guyatt Park stop, I guess, in spite of mediocre convenience to express stops and Toowong station.

[achiruel]

The thing that bugs me with the CityCat is that there really isn't a proper bus-citycat interface were you can get off a busway station and walk over to the CityCat easily.
The exception here is Tenneriffe.

Apollo Rd isn't too bad, Brett's Wharf is also fairly close to the bus stop (i/b at least, o/b is a bit of a nightmare).

North Quay I guess is as close as it practicably can be to the North Quay bus stop, although not many really high volume routes us it.

South Bank, Toowong (Regatta) & Mowbray Park are quite terrible IMO.

[#Metro]

Apollo Rd isn't too bad, Brett's Wharf is also fairly close to the bus stop (i/b at least, o/b is a bit of a nightmare).

North Quay I guess is as close as it practicably can be to the North Quay bus stop, although not many really high volume routes us it.

South Bank, Toowong (Regatta) & Mowbray Park are quite terrible IMO.
   

I didn't mean connection with *a* bus, but with the CFN.
199 and CityGlider is good, at both ends, but if I'm on the SE busway, or on a train, neither mode has a good connection with the ferries.

[achiruel]

I didn't mean connection with *a* bus, but with the CFN.
199 and CityGlider is good, at both ends, but if I'm on the SE busway, or on a train, neither mode has a good connection with the ferries.

That could fairly easily be fixed by moving the South Bank pontoon a bit to the west, couldn't it?  It would then be a far shorter walk to/from CCBS & South Brisbane railway station.

Also Apollo Rd & Oxford St should have a connection to the CFN, and perhaps Brett's Wharf as well (300 BUZ anyone?)

[HappyTrainGuy]

I think you'll find the berthing for a new terminal there would have to be 30-50m from the shoreline. Not cheap to do.

[achiruel]

Why so far into the river?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Water depth is shallow and rocky in that area when combined with the tides. If the jetty was in closer a large portion of the area would have to be dredged first otherwise the jetty would have to stick out into the river more.