Dakabin Station

[ozbob]

A group to help promote an upgrade of Dakabin Railway station has been started.

They have a site at facebook --> http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/dakabinrailwayupgrade

[Stillwater]

More strength to their arm.

[achiruel]

Let me guess, # of feeder buses to Dakabin Station = zero?

A quick sugestion (probably could be steam-ironed, but the shape of the streets is not very bus-friendly, and I'm not even sure if a bus can negotiate the streets of the loop near the terminus (which is basically provided for turning purposes).

http://g.co/maps/58y5h

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sigh. This is just me but Dakabin just isn't one of those places that needs a serious upgrade. That money can be better spent interjecting it into other areas such as MBRL/NCL duplication and realignment or spent on upgrading stations that constantly get passengers using it all week and weekends. I don't care what they say... "ohhh there's only 22 parking spaces cry cry cry" you'll be lucky to get 3 spaces used across Saturday and Sunday combined. Since Petrie has had a real spike in passenger levels from people living in Redcliffe/North Lakes/Mango Hill/Kippa Ring/Scarbrough/Murrumba Downs driving to the station filling it up quicker, more and more people have been driving to Dakabin to utilise the express services/available parking spots. If you go there during the day all the cars are lined up right beside the exits for a quick get away from the station. Once Kippa Ring goes up expect to see the Dakabin loads decrease once again as the people that used to drive to Petrie now board the service close to their home.

Fast Facts.
Combined Kallangur, Dakabin, Griffin, Murrumba Downs as of 2006
Population: 25,218
Average Age: 33
Number of Families: 7,136
No. in the Workforce: 12,927
**doesn't include whiteside, north lakes or mango hill.
Nearly 13,000 people in the 4503 area potentially using Dakabin Station.

Nearly 13,000 people live there in 2006 and yet only 200 people used during the passenger load survery that same year. Walk up patronage is non existant becaue of the local high school, golf course, sports complex and general location surrounding the station. If there is a serious problem as to what they are saying with finding available parking use the sports complex car park and walk a couple hundred metres to the station! Good luck on getting a bus under the 3.4m single lane rail bridge 

[SurfRail]

Let me guess, # of feeder buses to Dakabin Station = zero?

A quick sugestion (probably could be steam-ironed, but the shape of the streets is not very bus-friendly, and I'm not even sure if a bus can negotiate the streets of the loop near the terminus (which is basically provided for turning purposes).

http://g.co/maps/58y5h

Nearest bus is the 684, and it would be a stretch to call that a feeder service.

There really isn't much advantage for them here.  Why wouldn't you just go to Petrie to take advantage of the frequency?

[colinw]

Why the hell do people want upgraded stations instead of upgraded services.

I'd happily use an old plank on a dirt mound if the train came every 10 minutes.

[Jonas Jade]

Why the hell do people want upgraded stations instead of upgraded services.

I'd happily use an old plank on a dirt mound if the train came every 10 minutes.

if the service comes often enough it doesn't really matter what the station/stop is like because you won't be there long enough to care.

[#Metro]

Why the hell do people want upgraded stations instead of upgraded services.

I'd happily use an old plank on a dirt mound if the train came every 10 minutes.

Discrimination and Disability Act compliance. A lot of the QR network is non-compliant IMHO. Esp. station with wooden overbridges etc.

[somebody]

Why the hell do people want upgraded stations instead of upgraded services.

I'd happily use an old plank on a dirt mound if the train came every 10 minutes.

Discrimination and Disability Act compliance. A lot of the QR network is non-compliant IMHO. Esp. station with wooden overbridges etc.

Apparently not in this case.

I stand with HTG.  In fact, there is little obvious reason why the station is needed there at all.  Just like Gailes, it has a golf course on one side and no real walk up patronage, except the high school in this case.

A few best practice techniques like upgraded feeders to Petrie and charging for parking there would alleviate the issues at Petrie, although the latter may exacerbate issues at Dakabin.

[Gazza]

Why the hell do people want upgraded stations instead of upgraded services.

I'd happily use an old plank on a dirt mound if the train came every 10 minutes.

if the service comes often enough it doesn't really matter what the station/stop is like because you won't be there long enough to care.

Story of the Melbourne rail network.

[ozbob]

The problems with stations such as Dakabin, and Gailes are that are increasingly needed because of the failure to actually sort out stations like Petrie.  Petrie is a car parking nightmare.  Worse then some of the western problems.  Gailes and Dakabin are actually increasing in their utility because of this general network failure to address the parking and bus feeder issues properly.

It is therefore not unexpected that citizens will then aim for improvements at stations that they use.  It might seem logical to you as a non-user to use Petrie, better frequency but if you cannot get there and secondly you cannot park what do you do?

The secondary factor is DDA compliance.  There is a legal requirement that the authorities must meet.  So the time to sort out these issues is starting to run out.  How much would it cost to make Gailes compliant?  Footbridge, lifts and so forth. So much thought needs to go into what they authorities need to do.  More of the same is insanity, and will just see the number of cars and stations like Gailes and Dakabin continue to increase and the pressure will be then to fix Dakabin and Gailes.  It is going into a spiral.

What does the LNP want to do?  Build more park n' rides ... LOL  Oh dear, meltdown looming ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Petrie suffers from small problems that when added together make a bigger problem. Poor PT feeding into/from surrounding areas added with people along the Kippa Ring line/recent expansion of surrounding areas without PT making their way to the park and ride followed by the multiplication of the hours of operation of the feeder network. Leave the city after 6.30pm..... better hope you drove to the station 

[ozbob]

Petrie suffers from small problems that when added together make a bigger problem. Poor PT feeding into/from surrounding areas added with people along the Kippa Ring line/recent expansion of surrounding areas without PT making their way to the park and ride followed by the multiplication of the hours of operation of the feeder network. Leave the city after 6.30pm..... better hope you drove to the station  

Exactly, and that is why money wasted on 'Maroon City Gliders' is better applied to sort out these sort of base issues which are excluding citizens from using the network.

I often walk home because there is no bus.  Lucky I can still walk, many cannot.  Another looming issue, the aging of the population.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Its mind boggling that there are so many potentionally great feeder routes across the entire network but another duplicated inner city bus route makes its appearence first. There's not much one can do  :conf

[Fares_Fair]

Every day and night I see the incredibly long lineup of cars along both sides of the road to the south of Dakabin Station.
It appears to be very popular for whatever reason.
Only last week I said to a fellow trainee that the car queue must be about a kilometer long.

They state;
No disabled access: that is an important issue IMHO.
Dakabin is the only unmanned station between Central and Elimbah: comparing it to the megalith that is Elimbah is a fair comment IMHO.

In short, something needs to be done.

Good on them for seeing an issue and taking a stand I say.
The fact that they have a certain pride in their area, and want to do something about it, is admirable.  
I wish them well.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

1st April 2012

Re: SEQ: Quit insanity on park and ride woes!

Greetings,

The car parking issue in south-east Queensland is out of control.  The simplistic solution is to build more park n' rides?  No it is not.  What needs to occur is to put in place better feeder bus options in conjunction with a measured park n' ride approach.  Brisbane City Council is touting a new bus route the so called ' Maroon City Glider '  whilst in the middle and outer suburbia citizens are being excluded from using public transport because they cannot park at the stations, and there is no bus they can use to get to and from the stations.  Where there are services the hours of operation are such that they services are useless for most commuters.  For example, Strathpine a major rail station the last bus leaves that station at 5.20pm.

Why is Brisbane City Council allowed to waste valuable service funds on duplicating already existing high frequency bus routes in public transport rich inner Brisbane?  Its mind boggling that there are so many potentially great feeder routes across the entire network but another duplicated inner city bus route makes its appearance first.  It is time that planning for public transport services was removed from Brisbane City Council.  They are not capable of supporting an integrated public transport network.  They waste massive amount of funds by operating bus routes in competition with rail rather than feeding a high frequency core network.

As Lord Mayor, now Premier Campbell Newman wanted the State Government to take over Brisbane Transport.  What a great move, now is the time for the Premier to act on this and match his past rhetoric.  Once TransLink has effective planning control over Brisbane Transport a much more efficient public transport network can be put in place.

Railway stations such as Dakabin and Gailes are acting as parking relief stations  to address the basic issues of the failure to provide effective bus feeder services.  The parking available is verge parking on the sides of roads.  Citizens are forced to drive to these locations as they don't have options as the so called transit hubs - parked out and mediocre bus services.  Frustrated citizens at Dakabin have started their own action group (see --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8020.msg93233#msg93233 ).

The new Government, Minister for Transport and Assistant Minister for Public Transport have an immediate task to begin to sort out this festering parking mess.  And simply wasting millions and millions of dollars on park n' rides is not the answer.

Are they up to it?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 31 March 2012

SEQ: Quit insanity on park and ride woes!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers says the continued expansion of park and ride will make our traffic problems worse.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Governments of all levels are on a major reality avoidance mission - basic geometry suggests that when you have a limited space, whether that be a city or a station car park, if everyone tries to bring their cars into it, it is going to fill up quickly and then the space will run out. Basic economics - the law of demand and supply - suggest that if you give away something in demand for free, there will be excess demand for it and queues will form and it will be exhausted rapidly unless a charge is levied (1, 2, 3)."

"That's why we keep expanding park and ride, at a cost of around $30 000 to $40 000 per car space, billed straight to the taxpayer, the spaces keep filling up, cars enticed by the freebies spill over into suburban streets and the cycle starts all over again. That's a lot of money to spend that could be spent on decent public transport services rather than car storage space. You would have to spend approximately $40 million to fill up ONE 1000-person capacity Queensland Rail train using park and ride. Efficient? Good expenditure of cash? We didn't think so either!"

"A definition of insanity is 'doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.' This is the present car-parking paradigm, insanity."

"Let's face it. There is never going to be a solution until governments accept that park and ride is the highest cost, lowest capacity solution and that frequent, Toronto-style feeder buses are put on, connecting all-day train frequencies are boosted, and parking charges are levied. Perth, Western Australia has no issue charging $2 for car parks at high demand locations - you can even pay with their version of our GoCard (4). In Toronto, Canada, 98% of buses interchange with the subway system, using the buses to fill up the train system. Buses are brought right underneath or next to the station on dedicated bus ramps (5)."

"We understand that governments are reluctant to be seen to be introducing parking charges because it may offend some or look bad. Problem is, with the car park chaos and cars blocking residential streets and households and people being fined, they're looking bad anyway. Concession holders can be given a reduced rate (50% or 80% discount) to meet social welfare and equity objectives."

The solution is very simple:

1. Accept that park and ride is the highest cost, lowest capacity solution.

2. Put more feeder buses on and connecting train frequency all day.

3. Bite the bullet and charge for parking.

"Parking charges will raise money which can then be spent on improving cycling, walking and bus access to stations."

"It is time to quit the insanity on park and ride!"

References:

Supply and demand

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_price_system
3. http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp#axzz1qY1mJjSc

TransPerth car parking

4. http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/UsingTransperth/CarParking.aspx

TTC bus connection

5.

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[wbj]

Let's get a better picture of my local station.

It is unmanned.  There are no timetables on display at the station.  After more than a dozen years that I have used the station, some display cases were erected last year and printed timetables installed.  However, a couple of months ago, the artwork panels in the shelters were replaced.  After a couple of weeks, the display cases were reinstalled.  However, to date, the printed timetables have not been put in.

There is no formal drop off area on either side of the station.  The Narangba Road side has such an area but it is signed for a bus.  There is nothing on the Thompson Road frontage.  22 bitumen sealed bays and a total of 260 cars sounds about right.  Cars are parked for hundreds of metres on both sides of Thompson Road and on the verge and adjoining road reserve along Narangba Road.  Thompson Road becomes dodgy for two cars to pass eachother through the parked cars.

There is no formed footpath on the western side of Thompson Road for its whole length.  There is no formed footpath on the eastern side of Thompson Road from the high school entry north.  The only formed footpath is along the western side of Thompson Road going south, but it is generally 5-10 metres off the road because of the topography.  Therefore, any pedestrian, alighted driver or cyclist must also walk along the bitumen road which has been effectively narrowed by parked cars on both sides of the roadway.  That's taking a walk on the wild side, particularly during peak periods.

There is also no street lighting on Thompson Road which becomes more important for pedestrian safety as winter approaches.

There is disabled access on the western side of the station but no designated disabled parking bay or even formal dropoff space.  There is a disabled access ramp on the eastern side of the station but no disabled parking bay or dropoff point on that side of the station.  There is only a single wooden pedestrian bridge spanning the railway lines and linking the two platforms.  Using the station for a disabled person would be challenging.

There is a golf club clubhouse and carpark on the opposite side of Narangba Road.  However I don't see how that can be suggested as a partial solution because it is a private facility, not a public carpark.  The sporting ground is a couple of hundred metres walk from the station along the formed footpath.  However it is used on a fairly regular basis by a number of sports and most of the parking is occupied in the afternoon / evening when peak hour commuters are coming home.  Therefore, if that parking was used by commuters, there would be no parking for the sports people when they turned up to us the sports grounds on work days.

As well as those commuters who may come from North Lakes, Deception Bay or other surrounding suburbs, there is also substantial residential developments relatively near the station.  Public transport demand will continue to increase for the forseeable future and the Redcliffe line will not solve the problems for Dakabin when it finally eventuates.

Does anyone have up to date usage figures for Dakabin station?  Citing 2006 figures is almost irrelevant.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It hasn't really changed.

[Fares_Fair]

QR Passenger Load Survey Q3 - 2011
Data updated 8 November, 2011

Dakabin Station

AM peak 398 and was 40.6% growth from 10Q3 - 11Q3
PM peak 327 and was 25.3% growth from 10Q3 - 11Q3

[wbj]

QR Passenger Load Survey Q3 - 2011
Data updated 8 November, 2011

Dakabin Station

AM peak 398 and was 40.6% growth from 10Q3 - 11Q3
PM peak 327 and was 25.3% growth from 10Q3 - 11Q3

Interesting.  What is the average growth rates for the network?

[brad C]

For the benefit of the 'armchair experts' on RBOT, Dakabin station also serves a high school some 100 metres from the station. This school has 1200 students!!
There is a whole raft of new housing estates to the east of the station, all within walking distance of the station.
There are also critical infrastructure issues with the station - NO reticulated water supply and NO toilets. Gailes is a palace compared to Dakabin.
So it's acceptable to spend $22M up the road at Narangba (political motivation I have deduced), but it is unacceptable to provide basic services to the nearby station with a 'let them eat cake' attitude. Time to remove the blinkers!!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Pretty sure the high school has been mentioned several times already. Anyway, in the afternoon most school kids that go to the station get on to go to Strathpine to go to the shops. Plus any students that use it have the advantages of 4tph going to the city and 3tph Caboolture bound between 3-4pm so its not like they have to wait there very long.

[brad C]

Are you sure you're not consulting a TRANSPERTH timetable HTG??
Including a school special inbound, my timetable states 2 tph from town and 3 tph inbound between 1500-1600hrs through Dakabin.
For your information, and from one very close tho the action, approx 40% of students travel to the school by rail. Of that contingent, approx 60% travel to and from stations north (Narangba and Burpengary being the most popular) and 40% travel to and from stations south with Petrie and Lawnton being the most popular. Whilst technically these students are 'out of catchment', and there is intense competition from other State and Private schools in the area,  the proximity of the station and the school's agriculture program continue to attract students.
A bit of history - the station was the site of a magazine siding during the 40's and 50's, the original magazine reserve now occupied by the school, and formerly a refuse dump (now the cricket grounds). The station was a 'j' stop for many years in the timetable and boasterd a corrugated iron shed and low level platform, even when the school opened in 1978. As part of the Dakabin bank deviation civil works on the NCL, platforms were raised and lengthened in 1982-3 for SX cars and later electric stock. A timber footbridge and electric lights were also installed.
The station still waits for a station building, some form of staffing and town water.
The station has become popular for residents from the eastern residential estates - Alma Heights, Butterfly Ridge and Glenwood. It is also used as an overflow for Narangba ($22M upgrade and only 3 additional car parks!!) An over 50's estate has recently opened up in close proximity to the station.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sorry, had it confused with an outbound Petrie service. Inbound there are definatly 4tph. It might not be exact to the hour of 4pm but its still 4tph between 3.08-4.08.

Caboolture dep 2.52
Dakabin dep 3.08

Caboolture dep 3.10
Dakabin dep 3.20

Caboolture dep 3.22
Dakabin dep 3.38

Caboolture dep 3.52
Dakabin dep 4.08

I'm no dummy to the area. Been there and I've used it plenty of times. Can you elebrate why it needs a station building and staff for as I certainly disagree with that.

[wbj]

author=HappyTrainGuy link=topic=8020.msg95687#msg95687 date=1335071565

I'm no dummy to the area. Been there and I've used it plenty of times. Can you elebrate why it needs a station building and staff for as I certainly disagree with that.

Luxury.  I'd be happy with a printed timetable in the display case.

[p858snake]

Luxury.  I'd be happy with a printed timetable in the display case.

I tweeted the twitter team before (linking to your TT comments), They are looking into getting it done.

[ozbob]

http://365project.org/queenslandrail/365/2012-04-23

All Aboard for the New Look Dakabin station

Dakabin station has been given an artistic makeover, with a new community mural officially opening last week.

The mural was part of our positive pARTnerships program, which aimed to bring together creative minds and artistic ability to enhance local railway stations.

Lead artist Scott Breton and community artists Ryan Daffurn, Nick Leavey and Mark Feiler worked with Dakabin State High School students to create this mural.

The 72sq m mural which has been painted on the shelter sheds and ramp-ways at the station realistically captures the natural bush setting of the adjacent area.

If your school, community group or organisation would like to be part of the Queensland Rail positive pARTnerships station beautification program, please contact the Art Projects Coordinator on (07) 3235 1610 or email pARTnerships@qr.com.au

[wbj]

Luxury.  I'd be happy with a printed timetable in the display case.

I tweeted the twitter team before (linking to your TT comments), They are looking into getting it done.

One would have to think that it was the original intention to install printed timetables in the display cases.  They don't have any artistic merit.  Not rocket science to finish the job without being prompted.

[p858snake]

Luxury.  I'd be happy with a printed timetable in the display case.

I tweeted the twitter team before (linking to your TT comments), They are looking into getting it done.

One would have to think that it was the original intention to install printed timetables in the display cases.  They don't have any artistic merit.  Not rocket science to finish the job without being prompted.

They would have been installed by maintenance guys, I don't think local "sign-age" like that would be apart of what is included in their job requests/tickets.

[p858snake]

I have heard that the Time Tables will be going up in a day or two.

[Fares_Fair]

I have heard that the Time Tables will be going up in a day or two.

[Fares_Fair]

Article: QR crushes commuters' hopes of moving Dakabin station to bigger site
Jamie-Leigh Carter,
Pine Rivers Press
From: Quest Newspapers
May 11, 2012 2:00PM

http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/moreton/qr-crushes-commuters-hopes-of-moving-dakabin-station-to-bigger-site/story-fn8m0yu3-1226353008710?sv=f56c85c365a21282d195045e587d4423

Queensland Rail (QR) has dispelled any suggestions that Dakabin railway station may be moved to a larger, improved site.
A QR spokesperson said there was no truth to the rumours: ``Queensland Rail does not have plans in place to relocate Dakabin station,'' the spokesperson said.

That has brought an immediate response from the Dakabin Station Action Group calling for an upgrade of the current location.

Founder Gemma Gale said she would be applying more pressure for improvements to a series of issues.

Mrs Gale said she could understand the station being neglected if the plan was to eventually move it.

But after hearing Queensland Rail's response, Mrs Gale replied: ``That's good, now that cannot be an excuse.''

Mrs Gale said car parking spaces, safety and disability access were the biggest issues for her and the group.

The group petitioning for improved facilities is quickly gathering pace with more than 150 members joining the Dakabin Station Action Group Facebook page in the past couple of months.

What do you think? What needs to be done to improve Dakabin railway station?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yawn.

[SurfRail]

Surely most of these customers would just be better off driving or catching a bus to Petrie?  The bus catchment is virtually the same unless you live in a very remote spot.

I've always thought there could be a Kurwongbah Station located somewhere near the Narangba Road crossing, which would be a lot more useful than Dakabin for most people except for the high school students.  If the Caboolture line ends up being express from Petrie to the City full time, then this could be a good way to provide some parking relief and without adding too many stops to the overall journey.

(Leaving aside the fact that Dakabin is actually in Kurwongbah - did it ever have this name?)

[Fares_Fair]

Don't know SR.
With even more letters in it than Dakabin, they'd have a hard time getting the signs changed ... cough, bubblers, cough.

I wonder where the rumour came from in the first place ?

[STB]

I guess it's been called Dakabin simply because that's the suburb where it gets the majority of the catchment, bit like Ormeau station when it's clearly in Pimpama IMO.

[wbj]

The station was apparently named in 1888, almost a century before the suburb was officially named and bounded.  The railway line is the western boundary of the suburb.

Petrie station has extensive carparking but is completely full each morning.  Traffic around the station is heavy already.  The situation would not be improved by another 100-200 more cars trying to park there.  The feeder bus service from the area into Petrie station is poor.  Apart from an infrequent bus down the road, it would be just as quick for me to walk to Dakabin station as the nearest bus stop having a frequent bus service during morning peak which would still involve a changeover to the train service anyway.

The bridge over the Bruce Highway connecting North Lakes and Dakabin is to be completed next year which would encourage more commuters driving to Dakabin station.  This will exacerbate the situation for some years awaiting the Redcliffe railway finally being completed.   Would it be too much to hope that a feeder bus service could service North Lakes into Dakabin station and frequent feeder bus services from Kallangur into Dakabin?

[#Metro]

Charge for parking already!

[Arnz]

The bridge over the Bruce Highway connecting North Lakes and Dakabin is to be completed next year which would encourage more commuters driving to Dakabin station.  This will exacerbate the situation for some years awaiting the Redcliffe railway finally being completed.   Would it be too much to hope that a feeder bus service could service North Lakes into Dakabin station and frequent feeder bus services from Kallangur into Dakabin?

I think the question is where is the bus going to park at Dakabin in the current layout.  I would assume it wouldn't cost much to make a bus bay at Dakabin? (but at the expense of parking spots obviously).

[wbj]

Charge for parking already!

There are about 20 sealed, marked parking bays.  IF parking was charged for those bays, it would be uneconomical to monitor and police.  The remaining parking is kerb street parking or on vacant railways land.  In either case, charging a parking fee would imply that the facility is fit for purpose and the charge can be justified.

I would expect that a bus stop would consume say 6 street kerb parking spots.  Surely a bus service could get at least 12 commuters to switch from bus to car and produce a net saving of space.