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Author Topic: Article: Push for Hobart monorail  (Read 3491 times)

colinw

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Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« on: March 28, 2012, 11:30:05 AM »
This article appears to have run 4 days too early.  Top marks to The Mercury for embedding the classic Simpsons Monorail video in the article :-)

The Mercury -> click here

Quote
A HOBART alderman says Sydney should give Hobart its monorail for free.

Deputy Lord Mayor Ron Christie said the planned removal of the monorail presented an opportunity too good not to investigate.

The New South Wales Government last week announced it had bought Metro Transport Sydney, the company that owns the city's monorail and light rail, for $19.8 million.

The Government plans to tear down the monorail to make way for a redevelopment of the Darling Harbour Convention Centre and precinct.

"I think [NSW Premier] Barry O'Farrell  should give it to us as a post-Bicentennial gift," Ald Christie told thetelegraph.com.au.

"Why not? We'll come to Sydney with some engineers and sit around a table and work it out.

"If he helps us, we'll help him."

Alderman Christie said while his monorail idea might sound "wacky", it could provide and excellent link between North Hobart and the City.

"(The monorail) may be too small for Sydney for now, but it's ideal for the pocket capital of Australia," he said.

"The trains run on rubber wheels, each train has six 37 KW traction motors that travel at 33 kilometres per hour. They are incredibly quiet and in perfect working order. Each train seats 48 passengers and is ideal for a City-Salamanca- North Hobart loop."

Ald Christie said the monorail loop could begin at Federal St North Hobart, travel down Elizabeth St to Davey St, past the Museum and waterfront and back to North Hobart via Campbell St.

"Pending expert advice it may not have to be located 5.5m off the ground like in Sydney. All I'm saying is let's explore the possibilities," he said.

A spokesperson for Transport NSW said the department was "open to all offers at the moment" but did not comment specifically on Mr Christie's proposal.

He said he was not aware of any other expressions of interest in housing Sydney's monorail but said the process could be opened to a tender in the future.

Lord Mayor Damon Thomas congratulated Ald Christie for putting forward his idea.

Ald Thomas said ever since trams were taken out of the Hobart there had been discussions about how to improve links between North Hobart, the city and Salamanca.

"It's a challenge and we haven't worked out the best way to do it. This could be a wonderful way to do it," he said.

Ald Christie said he would push for the idea at an Infrastructure Committee Meeting seeking a report and further investigation into the monorail.

Transport economist Bob Cotgrove said Ald Christie's idea was "wacky".

"(The monorail) never made any money and it was a white elephant. If it wasn't successful in Sydney, which is 20 times the size of Hobart, it's crazy to think that it would be successful in Hobart," Mr Cotgrove said

"These things cost money to operate, that money has to be gotten from the passengers, people that are willing to pay for the ride, and what people would be willing to pay for a ride would be so low relative to the cost of running it."

Mr Cotgrove said the monorail was not a public transport option and would have to be run as a viable business.

"There's nothing to stop Ron Christie from forming a company and putting in the money as an investment, and if it makes a profit, then he will make a profit. What he's really suggesting is that the rate payers of Hobart or the taxpayers of Tasmania would fork out for it," he said.

Hobart Chamber of Commerce executive officer Ian McMahon said he would need to know details before supporting the idea.

"Any improvement around the city is worth exploring," he said.

somebody

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2012, 11:32:50 AM »
Hey if they want it!

If I was in Hobart I would hate this idea for its visual pollution alone.  I imagine that will be the response from Hobartians.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2012, 11:43:22 AM »
Quote
"(The monorail) may be too small for Sydney for now, but it's ideal for the pocket capital of Australia," he said.

"The trains run on rubber wheels, each train has six 37 KW traction motors that travel at 33 kilometres per hour. They are incredibly quiet and in perfect working order. Each train seats 48 passengers and is ideal for a City-Salamanca- North Hobart loop."

There we have it

- Technology fetish
- Loops

I've used to Hobart system, and I have to say without a doubt, it is THE WORST BUS SYSTEM I have ever had the displeasure of using EVER.
What they need is BUZification of the trunk routes, a busway station in the CBD and, in time, a busway up to Claremont in the old rail alignment.

Buses are idea as the city is very hilly and services need to cross over a few bridges as well. You'd need huge amounts of concrete for decent rail IMHO.

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Offline SurfRail

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 02:50:14 PM »
Fortunately, Hobart is not exactly a "mule with a spinning wheel" at the moment.

Offline interested_bystander

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 09:21:51 PM »
Hobart monorail...psshaw! What Hobart needs is a busway system. BUZification to start with, but this is a real opportunity to build sensible, demand-oriented, geography-oriented (seriously, has anyone driven along the Southern Outlet?) infrastructure, in preparation for congestion woes rather than in reaction to...

Offline Gazza

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 09:43:19 PM »
I love it how they have this notion that getting four 2nd hand monorail trains is a good deal.
The real costs comes from the track and the stations.

To put it in perspective...QLD got 44 new trains for 500 mil....11.3 mil per 3 car train right?

The cost of one train barley covers the cost of one station.

colinw

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 11:04:49 AM »
The Mercury -> Monorail push

Quote
March 29, 2012 12.01am

A CONSORTIUM of Hobart business leaders is interested in buying the Sydney monorail, says Hobart Deputy Mayor Ron Christie.

The Mercury yesterday revealed his plan to transport the six carriages to Hobart for a route covering Salamanca, the CBD and North Hobart.

Ald Christie believes the monorail should be given away by the NSW Government.

"If (NSW Premier Barry) O'Farrell wants to open his door, the Lord Mayor and myself will walk through it. We think he should give this monorail as a post-Bicentennial gift from the people of Sydney to the people of Hobart," Ald Christie said.

"If he doesn't want to bequeath it, then put it on eBay and may the highest bidder win."

The NSW Premier waved off suggestions the monorail would be given away but also asked Tasmania to make an offer.

"I think we've given Tasmania enough GST over the past 14 years," Mr O'Farrell said.

"Offers from Hobart, offers from the Tasmanian Government, would be most welcome."

Ald Christie said late yesterday a North Hobart consortium had expressed interest, pending reports from council officers and engineers. He said he would take the proposal to an infrastructure committee meeting to seek a report by council officers as well as further investigation.

He said people should not worry about the appearance of the Sydney infrastructure because the monorail may be able to run at a much lower level than its present height of 5.5m.

But he said running it above Macquarie and Davey streets might be an option, thus also addressing the problem of the busy streets that cut Hobart in two.

"The thing looks ugly in Sydney, there's no doubt about that, but we can lower it and put it at ground level. We might have to go up in the air above Macquarie and Davey streets."

Last Friday Mr O'Farrell announced the NSW Government had bought Sydney's light rail and monorail systems for $19.8 million and intended to dismantle the monorail. The 3.6km network includes six trains and eight stations.

Ald Christie said each train seated 48 passengers and was ideal for a City-Salamanca-North Hobart loop.

"There is also the potential to lay more track along the existing rail to Botanical Gardens and further."

He envisaged it linking North Hobart to the city, stopping at Elizabeth College, Elizabeth Mall and bus mall, to Salamanca along Davey St, to the Tasmanian Museum and Art Gallery, up Campbell St to the Theatre Royal, Royal Hobart Hospital and University of Tasmania Medical Centre and back to North Hobart.

colinw

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 11:08:38 AM »
Oh good grief, now Canberra wants the damn thing as well.

Sydney Morning Herald -> Hobart warns Tuggeranong in monorail tilt

Quote
Canberra is being urged to join the scramble to buy Sydney's cast-off monorail.

But it's already being warned by Hobart to ''back off'' because the Tasmanian capital city got in first.

Hobart Deputy Lord Mayor Ron Christie reckons his answer to the NSW government is to ''put [the monorail] on eBay and we can all bid for it''.
Advertisement: Story continues below

''It's not worth anything to them. We're doing them a favour,'' he said.

But both Sustainable Development Minister Simon Corbell and ACT Light Rail chair Damien Haas have rejected the idea of acquiring the monorail, Mr Haas saying its carriages are too small and like ''sitting in a row of old Kombi vans''.

The Tuggeranong Community Council has formally called on the ACT Government to buy the monorail and erect it in Canberra as a public transport option.

Tuggeranong Community Council president Darryl Johnston said it wasn't an early April Fool's joke.

''Well, why not?'' is his response to the naysayers.

''People might want to pooh pooh the idea but I don't particularly care. At least it gets us talking and thinking about an alternative system of public transport which is what we need in Canberra.''

NSW Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian is not discounting the interest from Canberra or other cities such as Hobart.

''We are open to offers,'' her office told The Canberra Times.

''If the Tuggeranong Community Council wants to make a submission to Transport for NSW, it will be considered.''

NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell said yesterday he wouldn't put a price tag on the dumped infrastructure.

''I don't want to curtail their enthusiasm,'' he said, of potential bidders.

Mr Johnston believes the monorail could be purchased at a fraction of its original cost and rebuilt in Canberra, saying the 3.6km track could simply be added on to. ''Unlike the Sydney monorail route that was aimed at tourists, this would be a regular commuter service,'' he said.

''It is not such a fanciful idea because other cities, such as Hobart, have already expressed an interest in purchasing the Sydney monorail.''

But Mr Corbell has suggested a monorail wouldn't work in Canberra.

''A monorail would not have sufficient passenger capacity or operating speeds to replace existing Rapid bus services, let alone function as a separated rapid transit option,'' Mr Corbell said.

''The ACT Government recently released Transport for Canberra 2012-2031 which outlines the Government's plans for transport over the coming decades. The ACT Government has also released a project update on the Gungahlin-to-City transport corridor, including our intention to pursue the option of light rail or bus rapid transit for the city.''

Mr Haas has also poured cold water on the idea.

''Canberra needs to focus on building a proper mass-transit public transport system to act as the backbone of a fully integrated system. Light rail can do the heavy lifting this system needs, with ACTION buses providing the flexibility in urban areas to feed passengers to light rail nodes,'' Mr Haas said.

''The Sydney monorail cannot. Its carriage passenger capacity is very low. The carriages are small. I have used the service - it is like sitting in a row of old Kombi vans being towed one way around a strange non-relevant route.''

Still, Mr Johnston said the council was calling for the monorail to possibly link Tuggeranong to Civic via the Monaro Highway but in reality he didn't mind if it was used for a link on other routes such as between Gungahlin and Civic or Civic and the airport.

The Sydney monorail has eight stations on only 3.6km of track.

''My answer to that is just add some extra track. That's all we need to do. Why not?'' Mr Johnston said.

But the indignation is building further south. Cr Christie reckons Hobart ''got in first''.

''Canberra is not the next cab off the rank, they have to stand on the platform behind us. Newcastle, Darwin, Nowra - they're all after it now,'' he said.

''Tell Canberrans Christie says, 'Get in the queue or see you on eBay'.''

Mr O'Farrell announced last week the government would tear down the monorail to make way for a new convention centre at Darling Harbour.

Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/hobart-warns-tuggeranong-in-monorail-tilt-20120328-1vz3a.html#ixzz1qSo7w9dL

Online ozbob

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2012, 11:13:05 AM »
So does Darwin.

Clearly cases of 'mono-rail' envy ...  :P

NT News --> Darwin 'wants' Sydney monorail
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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colinw

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2012, 11:16:55 AM »
That does it!  Time to get together a consortium and build a monorail from Bethania to Yarrabilba.  :hg

Sorry, we only got as far as a paddock in Buccan before we ran out of 2nd hand track.

colinw

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2012, 11:18:07 AM »
Failing that, how about running it from Caboolture to Wamuran, or from Rosewood up the Marburg branch to the bottom end of the ARHS museum. :)

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2012, 11:31:18 AM »
Nah, put it in from South Brisbane across to the CBD. Cross River (mono)Rail anyone?
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2012, 11:33:48 AM »
There are places where it would be useful- you need to have two high demand places separated by something like a barrier for this to be effective.

In Canberra, the monorail would be appropriate for a linear connection between Westfield Woden/Bus interchange and the Canberra Hospital.
In Brisbane the monorail would be appropriate for a linear connection between the two halves of Griffith university at Nathan where the freeway cuts the campus into two

Don't discount it because it is 'monorail'. The reason why the monorail didn't work in sydney comes down to geometry and not because "it's monorail"
- one way loops attract low demand, and lack of integration - you had to buy a special ticket and the fares weren't integrated.

Quote
Nah, put it in from South Brisbane across to the CBD. Cross River (mono)Rail anyone?
Heaven help us all.
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Offline Stillwater

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2012, 11:39:35 AM »
Mater Hospital, through South Bank parklands to the Cultural Centre Precinct?

colinw

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2012, 11:53:07 AM »
Not discounting Monorail for certain kinds of "feeder" lines at all. For example, Indooroopilly Station to Shoppingtown, would actually be really useful.

How good are monorails at going up hills?

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2012, 11:53:44 AM »
If anybody should buy it, it should be Tabcorp (run Jupiters) or AMP Capital (run Pacific Fair) so they can buy out and expand the Broadbeach one.  

It would be a convenient little connector between the existing line, Oracle, Pacific Fair LRT stop, inside Pac Fair and the casino again.  :hg


colinw

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2012, 11:55:19 AM »
What about Coomera station to the theme parks?

Offline Gazza

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2012, 11:55:30 AM »
Quote
"I think we've given Tasmania enough GST over the past 14 years
Oh snap!

colinw

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2012, 11:57:11 AM »
Quote
"I think we've given Tasmania enough GST over the past 14 years
Oh snap!
Aaaaaaaaaargh.

Offline O_128

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2012, 12:02:50 PM »
What about Coomera station to the theme parks?

You know what, thats actually a very good idea and something that could be pursued.
"Where else but Queensland?"

Offline Gazza

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2012, 12:06:14 PM »
Buses are fine to Coomera, plus the monorail would sit idle for much of the time (Park shuts at 5pm)

Offline Mr X

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2012, 04:55:30 PM »
How about run it from Moggill to Ipswich to replace the ferry?  :-r
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Online ozbob

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2012, 05:05:28 PM »
How about Goodna rail station to Storr Circuit Goodna?   Sure would beat  one hour off peak 524 bus?

Bring it on, we want the MONORAIL!!   :P

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Offline Arnz

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2012, 05:15:27 PM »
Forget Hobart, Forget Canberra, forget Darwin, even forget 524.

What about replacing the Route 314 with the monorail!!!!!!!!!!!  :hg :hg  It beats the one 314 loop a day service.  :-t :-r
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colinw

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2012, 05:52:04 PM »
Wacol Station to the new RSPCA HQ at Wacol:


Online ozbob

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2012, 02:54:25 PM »
Monorail Monorail Monorail!

Click --> here!
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Offline SteelPan

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2012, 03:44:34 AM »
What about Coomera station to the theme parks?

Yes, was going to say myself, the only place a monorail would make real sense is somewhere like Coomera - say the train station, to the long promised shopping complex and on to Dreamworld* and back - not a crazy idea at all, John Longhurst, who built Dreamworld, always saw a monorail as something that would come, as Dreamworld and the surrounding area grew into a mini Anaheim  - not at all a silly idea - * Dreamworld do also have a long-term goal of an integrated resort complex, so that would be another stop.

In fact, the more I think about it, the benefits could be very real for that region.

My only question, is 20+ year old monorail system really worth it or would something brand new, state-of-the-art, be the better buy?
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Offline SurfRail

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2012, 10:04:16 AM »
After the failure of the Multifunction Polis, Coomera was in fact being touted as a potential Anaheim style region full of resorts and the like, adjacent to all the theme parks.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2012, 01:23:23 PM »
Quote
My only question, is 20+ year old monorail system really worth it or would something brand new, state-of-the-art, be the better buy?
Or just more buses.

FWIW, there are 3 monorail lines at Disneyworld.

From the car park to Magic Kingdom, around the lake.
From the car park to Magic Kingdom, but stopping all stations at the resorts around the lake.
From the car park to Epcot.

All the other resorts, the 2 water parks, and the 2 other theme parks, have buses.

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Article: Push for Hobart monorail
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2012, 07:54:27 PM »
Horizontal fiscal imbalance, gentlemen.

 

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