ALP: Universal two journey cap go card policy announcement

[ozbob]

The mX today has a story on ALP policy announcement of a universal two journey cap.  

[ozbob]

20 March 2012

ALP Media Release

two-and-free initiative will bust fares

A new Labor government plans to introduce a cost-busting fare initiative across South East Queensland's public transport network with unlimited free trips for all go Card commuters after just two journeys in any given day.

Premier Anna Bligh said the new two-and-free Daily Cap built upon the government's weekly 10-journeys-and-free cap along with the 20 per cent reduction on off-peak fares.

"This would mean significant savings for commuters who made frequent use of bus, train and ferry travel across the south east," she said.

The two-and-free initiative is currently available to holders of the Seniors Card +go, a senior go card or a green pensioner concession go card.

"But it will be extended to all commuters under a new Labor government," Ms Bligh said.

"This represents some of the best value for money in public transport in the nation, building upon our successful go Card.

"What it means is simple: if you catch the bus or train or CityCat to and from work you will pay for those fares only each day and any other trips you take, you will take for free.
"You will also be able to combine the two-and-free saver with concessional and off peak discounts to save even more money."

Ms Bligh said the fare-buster would only be available to commuters using a go Card because the go Card technology was needed for the discounting to occur.

Already over 80 per cent of public transport trips in SEQ are made using a go-card, with reduced queuing and boarding times making every journey quicker as well as cheaper.

"In South East Queensland, we operate and maintain over 750km of rail line and a major fleet of buses and ferries and it's critical we not only keep the system moving efficiently, it's equally important that our commuters get the best value for money," said the Premier.

"In a growing state we also continue to grow our network to handle capacity.

"By June this year, our government will have added more than 900,000 weekly seats to our TransLink network over the past three years. We have added 530 new buses to the network as well as 64 new trains to our Citytrain fleet over the last five years.

"We want everyone on our network to be making the best use of the go Card because already it represents the best value for money and two-and-free will build on that.

The two-and-free initiative will be funded from GST redistributions.

[Fares_Fair]

Article: One, two, free
mX Brisbane
Tuesday 20 March, 2012
by Felicity Caldwell

[Stillwater]

What's on page 5?  Story continues there?

[#Metro]

It is too late. The ALP will be annihilated on saturday, as predictable.
Their news channel is full of "Campbell's web" nonsense, this is like a mouse squeak over that roar.

They really fell down on Public Transport, and they didn't have to.

1. They failed to communicate their PT achievements - TransLink, integrated ticketing and fares, busways

2. They were on the back foot when we were begging to have a Core Frequent Network Policy, they just looked at it in dazed stupor, so LNP promised to implement CFN on FG line
which made them look like they were playing "me too" politics. The least they could have done is do up the buses through ashgrove as BUZ services - 359/350/591(GCL) - nope.

3. Their news channels were full of "campbells web" and CMC this and CMC that intimations which ultimately fell down like a sandcastle when the waves come in.
They have spent soooo much energy on that and bringing out dirty laundry that it's backfired, looks bad and disrespectful and has actually alienated people.

4. Completely failed to chase the LNP on Cross River Rail, jaysus you think they would have got a big stick and fried him over that - states biggest project ever-
nope, opportunity passed up.

5. Completely FAILED ABYSMALLY to market the frequency improvements to frequency by marketing the increased frequency between Darra-CBD. They even issued
two separate timetables so it was impossible to see the frequency improvement and continually refused to market it as "Train Upgrade Zone" or anything. It would have
cost next to NOTHING to do this. Same deal with BUZ and all the upgrades we got from that - they didn't talk it up!

6. The current proposal for a daily cap devalues PT because it decreases the price of rotten apples but does nothing about the rot - Completing the CFN

I think, if you are that clumsy with decent opportunities to sell yourself, and instead waste time on shadowboxing and CMC innuendo you deserve to lose the entire election and be spanked.

[Cam]

Why does it take an election for passengers to be offered a better deal?

Why not just take $2 off the flagfall & cap increases at CPI indefinately?

[somebody]

It is too late. The ALP will be annihilated on saturday, as predictable.
Their news channel is full of "Campbell's web" nonsense, this is like a mouse squeak over that roar.

They really fell down on Public Transport, and they didn't have to.

1. They failed to communicate their PT achievements - TransLink, integrated ticketing and fares, busways

What?  They constantly banged on about their achievements.  Largely occurring more than 7 years ago!  Still basking in that glory is poor form.  Eastern busway?  Why won't they use it properly?

2. They were on the back foot when we were begging to have a Core Frequent Network Policy, they just looked at it in dazed stupor, so LNP promised to implement CFN on FG line
which made them look like they were playing "me too" politics. The least they could have done is do up the buses through ashgrove as BUZ services - 359/350/591(GCL) - nope.

They were playing "me too", most likely.

3. Their news channels were full of "campbells web" and CMC this and CMC that intimations which ultimately fell down like a sandcastle when the waves come in.
They have spent soooo much energy on that and bringing out dirty laundry that it's backfired, looks bad and disrespectful and has actually alienated people.

4. Completely failed to chase the LNP on Cross River Rail, jaysus you think they would have got a big stick and fried him over that - states biggest project ever-
nope, opportunity passed up.

5. Completely FAILED ABYSMALLY to market the frequency improvements to frequency by marketing the increased frequency between Darra-CBD. They even issued
two separate timetables so it was impossible to see the frequency improvement and continually refused to market it as "Train Upgrade Zone" or anything. It would have
cost next to NOTHING to do this. Same deal with BUZ and all the upgrades we got from that - they didn't talk it up!

6. The current proposal for a daily cap devalues PT because it decreases the price of rotten apples but does nothing about the rot - Completing the CFN

Agree.

I think, if you are that clumsy with decent opportunities to sell yourself, and instead waste time on shadowboxing and CMC innuendo you deserve to lose the entire election and be spanked.

Yes indeed.  Reminds me of NSW last year really.  Although at least their government was trying quite hard for most of the last term to improve PT.  You can't say that about this government.  Opposition had stupid PT policies and still does in government.

Deferring CRR minimised one of their major points of difference with the LNP.  How can you win votes for a 3 year term with a policy you are saying will be delayed for 2 years?

[Fares_Fair]

What's on page 5?  Story continues there?

No, it's a separate story of 7 questions put to Anna and Campbell, no transport issues raised.

[Gazza]

Out of interest, can anyone here say why CPI is the "right" percentage increase to be going by?

There seems to be a real obsession with that percentage, yet its not backed up by the 'science' behind the justification of other fare policies (like 1, 2 free)

[ozbob]

Out of interest, can anyone here say why CPI is the "right" percentage increase to be going by?

There seems to be a real obsession with that percentage, yet its not backed up by the 'science' behind the justification of other fare policies (like 1, 2 free)

It is a representative benchmark of cost of living increases and in so doing gives some sort of baseline reference.  It is not perfect but it is used to set many things including price rises.

--> http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DSSbyCollectionid/1E564CACF4CBEC32CA256ED8007EF06E?opendocument

[ozbob]

Yes, pity this sort of policy announcement not done sooner.

The two paid journey cap for pensioners and DVA has worked well, and it is an easy thing to implement on the go card system, so that is a plus.

It would be very useful for tourists who are here for a day or two particularly.

Can be optimised of course, lunch time one-zoners guarantee a free ride home each evening .. lol

It seems from the statement that the free travel after 10 paid journeys still applies as does off peak.

So a daily cap in effect.

[Fares_Fair]

Yes, pity this sort of policy announcement not done sooner.

The two paid journey cap for pensioners and DVA has worked well, and it is an easy thing to implement on the go card system, so that is a plus.

It would be very useful for tourists who are here for a day or two particularly.

Can be optimised of course, lunch time one-zoners guarantee a free ride home each evening .. lol

It seems from the statement that the free travel after 10 paid journeys still applies as does off peak.

So a daily cap in effect.

In my case I could save $52.00/week by doing my regular morning trip at $12.84 plus a mid-day trip for $2.44 = $15.28/day x 5 = $76.40/week or a 40.5% saving off current.

[Gazza]

Out of interest, can anyone here say why CPI is the "right" percentage increase to be going by?

There seems to be a real obsession with that percentage, yet its not backed up by the 'science' behind the justification of other fare policies (like 1, 2 free)

It is a representative benchmark of cost of living increases and in so doing gives some sort of baseline reference.  It is not perfect but it is used to set many things including price rises.

--> http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DSSbyCollectionid/1E564CACF4CBEC32CA256ED8007EF06E?opendocument

But the cost of providing PT seems to be on another planet to most other things in the "basket of goods". And each of those items in the basket sets themselves, not the other way around (Eg when the cost of bread goes up, its because the baker decided to put the price up, not because the baker 'wanted' to move with CPI)

I don't see it as a good benchmark. Why doesn't the PT system just raise prices according to their own costs?
If the price of fuel goes up, raise the fares. If there is a new driver wage deal that increases costs, raise the fares. If there is a network redesign that does more with less, keep the fares steady.
And so forth.

[Fares_Fair]

Out of interest, can anyone here say why CPI is the "right" percentage increase to be going by?

There seems to be a real obsession with that percentage, yet its not backed up by the 'science' behind the justification of other fare policies (like 1, 2 free)

It is a representative benchmark of cost of living increases and in so doing gives some sort of baseline reference.  It is not perfect but it is used to set many things including price rises.

--> http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DSSbyCollectionid/1E564CACF4CBEC32CA256ED8007EF06E?opendocument

But the cost of providing PT seems to be on another planet to most other things in the "basket of goods". And each of those items in the basket sets themselves, not the other way around (Eg when the cost of bread goes up, its because the baker decided to put the price up, not because the baker 'wanted' to move with CPI)

I don't see it as a good benchmark. Why doesn't the PT system just raise prices according to their own costs?
If the price of fuel goes up, raise the fares. If there is a new driver wage deal that increases costs, raise the fares. If there is a network redesign that does more with less, keep the fares steady.
And so forth.

Most trains run on electricity (some diesel locomotives of course).
Shouldn't be tied to petrol IMHO.

[Gazza]

It was just an example, and I'm sure you could have seen that, FF.

[Cam]

Can be optimised of course, lunch time one-zoners guarantee a free ride home each evening .. lol

This policy will strongly encourage short tripsjourneys at lunchtime on Mondays, Tuesdays & Wednesdays. After the journey in on Thursday, you then have free travel for the rest of the week.

Do the subsequent free journeys taken in a day still count towards the free travel after 10 journeys for the week?

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

20th March 2012

ALP Fare policy announcement

Greetings,

The ALP has announced a fare policy for the go card of a universal two journey daily cap.  That is once a go card user has completed two paid journeys in a day, travel is free for the rest of that day.

See -->  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7930.0

It is in effect a daily cap.  This type of journey cap has worked well for Pensioners who have had this cap since January 2011.

A two journey cap is also useful for tourists.  The loss of the daily paper ticket has increased travel costs for tourists and from this point of view would be very welcome.

RAIL Back On Track members still believe that more needs to be done to adjust the fare flagfall as detailed below.

Although late in the campaign, the announcement is welcome as it does focus on one of the main concerns of the public transport community, relative high fare costs.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 14 March 2012

SEQ: LNP and Labor Fares Policy for short distance travellers

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org), a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers wants a lower flag fall on fares, for cheaper short distance fares in particular.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track welcomes the LNP's policy announcement on fares (1).  However, under the LNP's fares plan one zone journeys in 2014 will cost approximately $3.50 in peak and $2.80 off peak.  While better than Labor's plan for $4.05 peak and $3.24 off peak (2) this still means short distance commuters are paying too much, and in many cases more than driving."

"RAIL Back On Track calls for both sides of politics to reduce the so called flag fall by a $1.50 or so in peak, reducing all adult fares by this amount to promote public transport use. Concession fares be reduced by a similar proportional amount."

"This flag fall improvement is more important in our opinion than the promised 'reintroducing discounted weekly fares on go cards(1)'.

"We also note that in the recent fare announcement from the LNP they have promised to deliver a reliable frequent and safe network.  There are considerable areas of infrequency on the network.  The rail network is to be upgraded weekday daytimes only, under an LNP government on the Ferny Grove line, a policy commitment now apparently matched by the ALP (3). This should be extended to weekends and evenings to receive the full benefit and then to the rest of the rail network."

"On the buses, there is poor frequency to Bulimba routes 230/231.  Centenary routes 45x, 460 need a revamp as do Everton Park routes 350/359."

"RAIL Back On Track welcomes the LNP's promise to provide a frequent network, but would like more information on what services are to be upgraded to be frequent.

"Lowering fares, especially for short distance passengers will promote extra public transport trips and therefore improve externalities such as congestion and help reduce road trauma costs."

References:

1.   http://lnp.org.au/policies/lower-the-cost-of-living-by-cutting-waste/fairer-fares-for-commuters

2.   http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/fares/current-fares

3.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3083.msg90662#msg90662

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Can be optimised of course, lunch time one-zoners guarantee a free ride home each evening .. lol

This policy will strongly encourage short trips at lunchtime on Mondays, Tuesdays & Wednesdays. After the journey in on Thursday, you then have free travel for the rest of the week.

Do the subsequent free journeys taken in a day still count towards the free travel after 10 journeys for the week?

No, as for the Seniors two journey cap, free travel is only after two paid journeys in a day, or ten paid journeys in a week.  Under a two journey cap, you need to do two paid journeys each day for 5 days, say Mon to Fri to access absolute free travel there after (Sat Sun).

[somebody]

Can be optimised of course, lunch time one-zoners guarantee a free ride home each evening .. lol

This policy will strongly encourage short tripsjourneys at lunchtime on Mondays, Tuesdays & Wednesdays. After the journey in on Thursday, you then have free travel for the rest of the week.

Do the subsequent free journeys taken in a day still count towards the free travel after 10 journeys for the week?

I was just thinking that, although now it will have to be done Thursday and Friday as well.  If the cataclysm comes and ALP are re-elected.

[Derwan]

This is another policy that would simply help long-distance travellers "take advantage" of the system to reduce their fares.  They can already significantly reduce their weekly fares by doing short lunch-time trips.  Under this one, two, free system, they would never pay for more than one full journey a day - and only 5 full journeys a week (as opposed to 10 if there were no free trips offered - or 7 under the current system).

To be fair, the system needs to cap the fares to the equivalent of the two longest journeys in the day.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yawn. People that travel long distance are the winners once again 

How about they get off their butts and offer a better short journey trip for those that only use 1-2 zones for once.

[somebody]

Yawn. People that travel long distance are the winners once again 

How about they get off their butts and offer a better short journey trip for those that only use 1-2 zones for once.

+1

Worse than that, people that commute long distance are the main winners.

[Stillwater]

Why get ourselves in a lather over this?  It is an ALP policy and, as the polls tell us, they won't be in power after March 24.  The LNP and its policies should remain the focus.

[SurfRail]

Yawn. People that travel long distance are the winners once again 

How about they get off their butts and offer a better short journey trip for those that only use 1-2 zones for once.

I would have thought the reason for that is obvious.  There is a much higher proportion of conservative seats on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts, and the Gold Coast in particular is quite marginal.  Election on Saturday, remember...

[Fares_Fair]

Agree with SW, this is not a vote changing winner, their 15% hikes for the next 2 years are still all go.

For the Sunshine Coast line, everyone (or almost every commuter) knows what is required to impove our lot and that is nothing short of rail duplication.
Seriously, nothing else matters when it comes to the BIG picture.

Many commuters want the express services back and quicker NOT slower journeys.
These are the symptoms of the sickness on our line, not to mention the 44% buses and the short inefficient freight trains.

[Mr X]

Yawn. People that travel long distance are the winners once again 

How about they get off their butts and offer a better short journey trip for those that only use 1-2 zones for once.

It should be a system where you pay up front for all your journeys throughout the day and at the end, you get the cheapest ones refunded. This set up is too easily exploited by long distance commuters.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Why get ourselves in a lather over this?  It is an ALP policy and, as the polls tell us, they won't be in power after March 24.  The LNP and its policies should remain the focus.

I know but its so damn frustrating to see them just constantly proposing and destorying the public transport network. Be it with poor frequency, poor running hours, poor quality and random routes, poor connections/interchanges or just random fare structures.

[Gazza]

To be fair, the system needs to cap the fares to the equivalent of the two longest journeys in the day.

Agree 100%.

[Fares_Fair]

To be fair, the system needs to cap the fares to the equivalent of the two longest journeys in the day.

Agree 100%.

I'll agree, but NOT until we get the same level of services.

[Mr X]

To be fair, the system needs to cap the fares to the equivalent of the two longest journeys in the day.

Agree 100%.

I'll agree, but NOT until we get the same level of services.

I disagree,
Why should the tax payer fund both a $1 billion + duplication of your train line AND give you a 40% fare decrease, while some people in Brisbane (235, anyone?) have services just as bad, if not worse, than yours and are paying extra each and every year for the same sh%t service. The 230/235 have not had an upgrade in any form since before 2005.

You can have one or the other, but not both. Personally I'd prefer to pay more for a better service...

To be fair, the system needs to cap the fares to the equivalent of the two longest journeys in the day.

Sorry didn't see that before I posted the exact same thing. Yes agree 100%

[HappyTrainGuy]

To be fair, the system needs to cap the fares to the equivalent of the two longest journeys in the day.

Agree 100%.

I'll agree, but NOT until we get the same level of services.

I disagree,
Why should the tax payer fund both a $1 billion + duplication of your train line AND give you a 40% fare decrease, while some people in Brisbane (235, anyone?) have services just as bad, if not worse, than yours and are paying extra each and every year for the same sh%t service. The 230/235 have not had an upgrade in any form since before 2005.

You can have one or the other, but not both. Personally I'd prefer to pay more for a better service...

Agreed. If that was applied to the sunshine coast for instance then I'd want cheaper fares to get to the local shops on the weekend because the local bus becomes a two hour route. Then there are other people that live along the 354 route that have to put up with a 2 hour weekday frequency in zone 3. Its just impracticle to do that.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Labor's Go Card sweetener for voters

Labor's Go Card sweetener for voters
Dan Nancarrow
March 20, 2012 - 4:31PM

All southeast Queensland commuters will qualify for unlimited free trips after taking two journeys on the bus, train or ferry on any given day if Labor is re-elected.

Premier Anna Bligh announced the two-and-free daily cap initiative for all Go Card holders this afternoon.

"What it means is simple: if you catch the bus or train or CityCat to and from work you will pay for those fares only each day and any other trips you take, you will take for free,'' she said in a statement.

The scheme was currently available for holders of the Seniors Card +Go, a senior Go Card or a green pensioner concession Go Card.

"But it will be extended to all commuters under a new Labor government," Ms Bligh said.

"We want everyone on our network to be making the best use of the go Card because already it represents the best value for money and two-and-free will build on that.''

LNP transport spokesman Scott Emerson described the initiative as ''rubbish'' and said it would be little benefit to commuters.

"Most commuters I know make two journeys a day and Labor's offer of a third at no-cost is a con – and can't be believed four days out from the election,'' he said.

"If the tired... Labor government was at all fair dinkum about lowering costs for commuters they would adopt the LNP's sensible plan to limit fare increases to half that of Labor.

"They'd also adopt our policy of free trips after nine journeys.''

Earlier this month the LNP committed to introducing a scheme where every journey after the ninth journey taken on a Go Card each week would be free.

LNP leader Campbell Newman has also announced the conservatives would scale back annual public transport fare increases from 15 per cent to 7.5 per cent if they win office.

Robert Dow, from commuter lobby group Rail Back on Track, welcomed Labor's latest initiative, saying it would be most beneficial to tourists and other high frequency users effected by the loss of a daily ticket.

He also suggested commuters may be able to benefit from the initiative if they started travelling short trips outside their commute.

''They could do a lunchtime journey and pick up a free trip home each day,'' he said.

''If you are travelling down to Brisbane from the Sunshine Coast that could produce savings of up to $52 a week.''

Mr Dow said he had been disappointed with the lack of attention to public transport issues shown by the two major parties during the campaign, noting pressing issues such as the upgrade of the Sunshine Coast line had not been addressed.

But he was hopeful Labor's latest announcement would push the LNP to reveal the party's rail plan and the details of its policy on Cross River Rail, both flagged by Mr Newman to be announced before the election.

''We're running out of time aren't we,'' he said.

''Cross River Rail really needs bipartisan support.''

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/state-election-2012/labors-go-card-sweetener-for-voters-20120320-1vhh3.html

[ozbob]

http://scottemerson.com.au/media-releases/labors-latest-con-still-means-15pc-fare-hikes.html

LNP Statement

Labor's latest con still means 15pc fare hikes

Tuesday, 20 March 2012 16:17

A vote for Labor on March 24 remained a vote to increase public transport fares by 15 per cent in 2013 and 2014, the State Opposition said today.

LNP Shadow Minister for Transport Scott Emerson said Labor's election-eve policy of a no-cost rides after two paid journeys in a day was rubbish.

"It will be of little or no benefit to southeast Queensland commuters," Mr Emerson said.

"Most commuters I know make two journeys a day and Labor's offer of a third at no-cost is a con – and can't be believed four days out from the election.

"If the tired, 20 Labor government was at all fair dinkum about lowering costs for commuters they would adopt the LNP's sensible plan to limit fare increases to half that of Labor.

"They'd also adopt our policy of free trips after nine journeys," Mr Emerson said.

"Under the lazy, long-term Labor government southeast Queensland commuters now pay some of the highest fares in the world and if Labor is re-elected on Saturday there'll be no fare relief at all.

"In fact commuters will pay another 15 per cent in 2013 and another 15 per cent in 2014.

"A CanDo LNP government will lower the cost of living and deliver better infrastructure and planning.

"It's time for a change. It's time to get Queensland back on track."

[O_128]

Does anyone else have the urge to slap Ms Bligh, We have been told no capping is impossible etc etc, and now they promise it. IDIOTS

[somebody]

LNP leader Campbell Newman has also announced the conservatives would scale back annual public transport fare increases from 15 per cent to 5 per cent if they win office.

WTF?  They've already announced their policy and their changing it before the election?

[ozbob]

LNP leader Campbell Newman has also announced the conservatives would scale back annual public transport fare increases from 15 per cent to 5 per cent if they win office.

WTF?  They've already announced their policy and their changing it before the election?

I think that might be a typo ..

[somebody]

Does anyone else have the urge to slap Ms Bligh, We have been told no capping is impossible etc etc, and now they promise it. IDIOTS

Welcome to Qld.

When did they say it couldn't be done by the way?

[SurfRail]

^ At PTAG we were told it would involve significant back-end work and would not be worth it.

I think everybody has lost the plot frankly.

What we need to do is to sit down with the new minister (who will near certainly be an LNP member) as quickly as possible and talk through things.  I will be seeking out my local member as well, we are already on basically a nick-name basis which helps. 

[somebody]

So why's it not too hard for Seniors then?

[ozbob]

There is no problem with journey capping (simple counting), the problem is with algorithms to do true daily capping based on actual zones travelled.  Same with doing a periodical weekly monthly.  That is why we have ended up with the journey caps ...