• Welcome to RAIL - Back On Track Forum.
 

Yarabilba development - website

Started by #Metro, February 25, 2012, 06:38:08 AM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages1
User actions

#Metro

February 25, 2012, 06:38:08 AM
http://www.yarrabilba.com.au/

::) I can already see from the map that it's 'not on the way'.




Land from $118 000 <----- This is a big incentive for sprawly developments!
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

BrizCommuter

#1
February 25, 2012, 08:05:10 AM
Oh dear - yet another environmentally unsustainable urban sprawl car-fest.

ButFli

#2
February 25, 2012, 08:37:15 AM
They say it's a complete community, but that's not true, is it? Where is everyone going to work? Surely not in the shopping centres and business centre.

Build a train and I will consider it.

#Metro

#3
February 25, 2012, 09:04:23 AM
I get frustrated at developments like this in la la land - what are the chances the road layouts are going to look like Springfield- windy and impenetrable by buses?

It is also not "on the way", so it needs an entire new transit line dedicated JUST for itself - at around $200 million / kilometre to get rapid transit out there, this will take up to a decade or more PLUS be more money thrown at concrete which means LESS cash for frequency and span upgrades on EXISTING infrastructure.

Accepting that it's going to be built, no matter what we say (heaven help us all), I think we need to focus on amelioration measures - what can be done if it is built. Maybe this means dedicated bus lanes, or BRT in painted lanes of some kind.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

#Metro

#5
February 25, 2012, 15:21:33 PM
QuoteThe development is planned to reach 50,000 population, with developments by Lend Lease starting to be advertised in the press. So what are the public transport provisions for this development? As mentioned above, the nearest train stations are outer Beenleigh Line stations, including Beenleigh itself which is also on the Gold Coast Line. Even if a half-decent feeder bus network was provided to a station served by Gold Coast express services, it would take at least 70 minutes to travel from Yarrabilba to Central by public transport. Whilst an abandoned train line which branches off the Beenleigh Line at Bethania runs close to Yarrabilba, there are no plans to utilise or modify this train line. There is also currently insufficient inner-city rail capacity to cope with extra train services from the South East corridor which includes the nearby urban sprawl development of Flagstone.

EVEN IF there were decent frequent feeder buses to rail, the service on the beenleigh line stopping.at.every.single.station.on.that.line.which.takes.forever. the quality of service and travel times are just TOO AWFUL.

Putting rail on there is a solution but that requires a MEGAPROJECT, i.e. mountains of cash to buy mountains of concrete. This means cash not spent elsewhere on the existing system. And as you stated, it needs Cross River Rail for capacity. Because there is nothing there, the project is 'not on the way' and therefore requires a brand new spur line at approx $200 million dollars PER KILOMETRE to get out to everyone down there.

NB: Not exact calculations, ballparks only
Assuming a profit margin of let's say 20-30%, about 500 - 1000 new homes would have to be built to pay for ONE KILOMETRE of rail out there. And since we need about what, ~ 20 kilometres or so of rail, I really begin to wonder whether it would make more sense to simply pay Lend Lease $2 billion or so to go away an NOT build there - Let's see...

http://www.ulda.qld.gov.au/01_cms/details.asp?ID=386

Quote
The Yarrabilba UDA is an opportunity to provide approximately 20,000 dwellings to house a population of approximately 50,000 people.

50 000 dwellings x 350 000 average dwelling price = 7.5 billion dollars x 30% profit margin = 5.2 billion dollars profit

My suggestion is that no matter what we say, jump up and down, they are going to build it anyway. They could have built it where there is already rail, like on the Ipswich-Rosewood line, but they are obviously not taking that option.

So what is the second best solution - I would suggest a special public transport tax infrastructure or levy over and above whatever would already be levied to be placed on every development that gets built there, and for that to continue for 20-30 years. It could be collected by Logan Council or whatever LGA will be ultimately responsible and then sent to TransLink especially earmarked for that area. TransLink could then in the first instance build park and rides along the proposed rail corridor but use buses to transport people to the nearest proper stop/busway. Not all money would be immediately spent, and given the timeframe, could probably be invested.

The road leading to the development could also be tolled. None of this is popular, but it just isn't fair that we expect such massive costs just to get services down there be fully borne by everyone else. Those who benefit should pay something. At $200 million dollars PER KILOMETRE that's 33 times more $$$ than maroon citygliders and a lot of money that has to be scraped away and not available for things like Core Frequency on existing infrastructure.

Just you wait for residents to start complaining "but there is no public transport, oh", and "oh, I bought here because we were PROMISED a rail line and it's the government's fault they didn't deliver" knowing full well the development is geographically sited in la la land...
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

SurfRail

#6
February 25, 2012, 18:38:23 PM
Springfield's basic design mistakes are not likely to be repeated with some of these developments.  They were masterplanned by Delfin, who is notorious for road layouts impervious to public transport.  I doubt the ULDA will permit that to occur again.

But the other issues remain - principally whether these will be self-supporting areas.  My list of concern goes (in increasing order) as follows:

1. Ripley Valley (no issues for me - on a future rail line quite likely to happen, strong freight links, the developer is not a traditional Australian sprawl-builder and has a decent strategy for generating local employment nodes).

2. Flagstone (similar issues to the ones below, but at least it will have rail).

3. Caboolture West (near a major centre and rail terminus, but again limited chances for local economic activity without a huge amount of work).

4. Caloundra South (doubtful the Sunshine Coast will be able to absorb the extra working population, and only limited prospect of rail happening any time soon).

5. Yarrabilba (no rail access - appears to be supported solely by some bus links and by a new motorway - all the concerns of the ones above, but with no mass transit to ameliorate the worst impacts).
Ride the G:
Print
Go Up Pages1
User actions
🡱 🡳