Article: Population boom could reactivate Wamuran rail corridor

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail Quest click here!

Population boom could reactivate Wamuran rail corridor

Population boom could reactivate Wamuran rail corridor

    by: Glenn Roberts, Caboolture Shire Herald
    From: Quest Newspapers
    February 14, 2012 12:00AM

The Wamuran rail corridor could be brought back to life to serve new urban areas west of Caboolture but claims that it will carry passenger trains have been challenged.

Mayor Allan Sutherland told last week's Moreton Bay Regional Council co-ordination committee meeting that reopening the rail line was on the agenda.

"There was open discussion on that the other day,'' Cr Sutherland said.

"Authorities have been talking about opening the line,'' he said. "It would cost millions of dollars.''

But the councillor for that area, Adrian Raedel (Div12), said he "must have been in different meetings to the mayor''.

"Whether it is a railway line or dedicated busway or some sort of other transport is open to discussion,'' Cr Raedel said.

He told the Herald that the group representing developers with holdings in the area was ``certainly'' examining building a dedicated busway on the rail corridor.

Neither the state Transport Department or a representative of the developers' group responded to requests for comment by the Herald's deadline.

The South East Queensland Regional Plan 2009-2031 designated a large area west of Caboolture/Morayfield as the Caboolture West Identified Growth Area.

In its 2008 submission to the SEQRP review, a group of developers called the Caboolture Investigation Area Consortium Group said about 60,000 people could be housed in part of the area.

In 2008, developers including Brookfield Multiplex, Stockland, Heritage Pacific and Urbis, plus town planners The Heilbronn Group, Conics and The Continuum Group formed the Caboolture Investigation Area Landowners' Group.

The rail line was last used in 1996.

[#Metro]

But the councillor for that area, Adrian Raedel (Div12), said he "must have been in different meetings to the mayor''.

"Whether it is a railway line or dedicated busway or some sort of other transport is open to discussion,'' Cr Raedel said.

Wow, what a switched on Councillor!

I agree. The last thing we need is ANOTHER BRANCH that is going to split frequencies, cost $150 million/km and all for just 2 trains per hour.
Totally not worth it.

BUSWAY!!

[somebody]

But the councillor for that area, Adrian Raedel (Div12), said he "must have been in different meetings to the mayor''.

"Whether it is a railway line or dedicated busway or some sort of other transport is open to discussion,'' Cr Raedel said.

Wow, what a switched on Councillor!

I agree. The last thing we need is ANOTHER BRANCH that is going to split frequencies, cost $150 million/km and all for just 2 trains per hour.
Totally not worth it.

BUSWAY!!

Given that Caboolture is the end of the line you could just extend the Caboolture terminating trains there.

[SurfRail]

I don't see the point.  The 651 is the relevant bus service and could just be made to run more frequently.

I think the best outcome for Caboolture would be to remove the parking around the existing station and install more parking capacity at the proposed Caboolture North station.  Caboolture can then be redeveloped to improve the land usage around the station so it is more comparable to a Sydney or Melbourne town centre station.

Reopening Wamuran just means another junction on an already over-conflicted network (and there is no way a grade-sep would be justified for a single station in west Caboolture when the bus only runs hourly).

[Stillwater]

An east-west PT transport corridor would do wonders to improve accessibility for residents of Caboolture and surrounds - maybe even extending a dedicated corridor to the east -- maybe not as far as the old toll booth on the Bribie Island bridge, but certainly to loop through the industrial area east of the highway.  Remember, the Moreton Bay Regional Council threw a slew of money at the Kippa Ring line to make it happen. 

RailBOT pointed out in the recent media statement that excess railway land should be sold off, but made specific mention of keeping the Wamuran Line in play.  Rail, light rail (mmm) or regular busway would transform Wamuran and make it a more desirable place to live.  As many more baby boomers will re retiring to a sea/tree change situation, Queensland should be thinking more about augmenting the rail network with connections such as this.  (A funicular railway to Maleny?  lol) Properly motiviated, retirees can do a lot of the volunteer work in a community which, in turn, makes those places more attractive to younger families.

[#Metro]

I don't see the point.  The 651 is the relevant bus service and could just be made to run more frequently.

I think the best outcome for Caboolture would be to remove the parking around the existing station and install more parking capacity at the proposed Caboolture North station.  Caboolture can then be redeveloped to improve the land usage around the station so it is more comparable to a Sydney or Melbourne town centre station.

Reopening Wamuran just means another junction on an already over-conflicted network (and there is no way a grade-sep would be justified for a single station in west Caboolture when the bus only runs hourly).

I agree totally. For $200 million dollars to build 1km of Class A ROW (i.e. Busway OR Heavy Rail) you could run a deluxe, gold plated, diamond-encrusted sexed up high frequency bus on normal roads for the next 20 years. There is really not much there to justify the use of Class A or even class B ROW, although the corridor could be preserved.

Any extension in that region should be a spur to Caloundra to permit interconnection with the Sunshine Coast bus system as the first part of CAMCOS.
Perhaps, ultimately, all Caboolture trains would no longer terminate at Caboolture, but instead, continue on to Caloundra.

[#Metro]

http://cultaffair.com/files/2011/02/jeepney03.jpg

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yawn. Nothing but weeds and long grass out that way.

[p858snake]

Yawn. Nothing but weeds and long grass out that way.

We must be visiting different Wamurans then

[HappyTrainGuy]

There is no need for any of that. I'd rather see Doomben duplicated, full DDA and extended through to Hamilton or even bring back Pinkenba passenger trains. There is a railway line there but just because its there doesn't mean it has to be used for such a small area. Sorry, but its not worth of heavy rail traffic. Improve the local bus service/coverage. Cheaper. No need to remove the Northern Caboolture stabling, no need for a docking platform, no multiple level crossings required.... especially across the busy Beerburrum road, no road modifications required (such as the roundabout and King Street on/off ramps onto the D'Aguilar Highway), no sound proofing/fencing along the entire corridor, no expensive platforms being built, no DDA issues, no issues with the multiple school entrances, no property resumptions, no DMU/loco acquirements and resulting maintainence/fuel costs (Compared to running a bus), no community consultations over the smallest of things and none of this

[SurfRail]

http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/timetables/110606-651,652,655.pdf

651 runs from around 5:30am to 7:30pm, with variable frequency (but generally every hour, a bit more in the peak).

The best solution is to spend money upgrading this service, or adding another one to cover the area north of the old branch if it is ever developed more intensively.

Compare this to Kippa-Ring and Springfield - both have well-developed or developing major centres to service (North Lakes, Springfield town centre) and a large residential catchment, and so justify the expenditure.  Wamuran goes past some detached housing.

(Interestingly enough, I have only just noticed that the Wamuran branch actually appears in the map for this timetable...)

[#Metro]

I agree with SurfRail.

Diamond encrusted BUZ it is...

[ozbob]

I think many are missing the point here, this is a long term projection.  The area is slotted for Springfield type developments, not now but in the distant years to come.

It would be rather smart to include in the rail corridor in the future plans as Springfield has been.

It is not about now.  Now a bus can do clearly.

[Stillwater]

Agree with Ozbob.  The area west of Caboolture to Wamuran is slotted as the Caboolture Region's next growth corridor.

[SurfRail]

I think many are missing the point here, this is a long term projection.  The area is slotted for Springfield type developments, not now but in the distant years to come.

It would be rather smart to include in the rail corridor in the future plans as Springfield has been.

It is not about now.  Now a bus can do clearly.

If that is the case then we can reassess that, but I understood growth was intended to be concentrated around the old airport site just south of Caboolture station/east of Morayfield shops first. 

Somebody feel free to correct me if there are details available, but I didn't think any major trip generators or signficant population increase is being planned between west Caboolture and Wamuran/Woodford.

[#Metro]

Growth? What kind of growth?
Fungal growth? 

[Fares_Fair]

Very fungi!   

[Stillwater]

Information here:

http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/uploadedFiles/common/consultations/Factsheet04-population-growth.pdf

Note reference to Caboolture West Identified Growth Area:

http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au//uploadedFiles/moretonbay/development/planning/MBRC-SEQ-Plan-Submission.pdf

The council is being a tad naughty because it wants the state government to investigate the CWIGA and get planning underway.

http://caboolture-shire-herald.whereilive.com.au/news/story/development-push1/

[SurfRail]

Information here:

http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/uploadedFiles/common/consultations/Factsheet04-population-growth.pdf

Note reference to Caboolture West Identified Growth Area:

http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au//uploadedFiles/moretonbay/development/planning/MBRC-SEQ-Plan-Submission.pdf

The council is being a tad naughty because it wants the state government to investigate the CWIGA and get planning underway.

http://caboolture-shire-herald.whereilive.com.au/news/story/development-push1/

Is there much commercial interest in developing this area though?  Is the land in government hands or being master-planned by somebody?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yes diffiult to justify rebuilding rail (at this time) past the current developed area with the boundry being near Sunnymeade Park which is barely 3km along the old alignment (great as it is), the catchment beyond looks very low compared to even Logan Village. However if it was to happen, it would still be just one station and on any other branch line this would result in the eixsting service being extended by 1 station. And this would probably be no more complicated than a simple shunt neck from Cab station at this time, further growth further west could see the line extended another 2 stations with last one being Warmuran.

But looking at the route for now and next 10 years, would you remove the tracks and make a busway? knowing that this will probably prevent HR being built in our lifetimes even if there was a massive push of growth further NW?

regards
Shane

No need to rip up the tracks for a busway. Just run the 651 more frequent.

[achiruel]

With the approval of the Caboolture West Master Plan, could the need for increased transport on this corridor be not too far away?

Is light rail a viable alternative if there are 60,000 people on the corridor?

[O_128]

isn't it interesting, The nimbys are crying for blood when a 8 story building goes up in the inner city due to traffic concerns, yet we are going to dump 60000 people in the middle of nowhere with no alternative transport for at least 15 years.

[SurfRail]

If the election was next year, this would be an area ripe for a ULDA takeover.  I don't expect the ULDA will survive 2012 though, given that the LNP don't like it (God knows why, it is the only planning body doing anything right, same as South Bank).

[Gazza]

With the approval of the Caboolture West Master Plan, could the need for increased transport on this corridor be not too far away?

Is light rail a viable alternative if there are 60,000 people on the corridor?

Wouldn't you just do a feeder busway to a train station, like in Almere?

[achiruel]

On reason was that I was hoping LR could be automated with the resultant savings in labour costs (also less issues with crew rest breaks/leave etc) - or is that expecting too much from our leaders?

Of course if buses can be automated that might be a good choice also.

[BrizCommuter]

On reason was that I was hoping LR could be automated with the resultant savings in labour costs (also less issues with crew rest breaks/leave etc) - or is that expecting too much from our leaders?

Of course if buses can be automated that might be a good choice also.

At grade driverless systems - unlikely!

A low cost busway (such as those in Dartford and Runcorn, UK) would probably be the most cost effective solution.

[HappyTrainGuy]

At grade driverless systems - unlikely!

Wouldn't the climb out of the station be epic to cross Beerburrum road. ROLERCOASTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! 

A road bridge wouldn't be any fun though

But yeah, that would cost a heap which could be better spent on providing other services/options.

[Arnz]

Just improve the Route 651 in this case.

[ozbob]

Quest Caboolture Shire Herald 16th January 2014 page 3

Busway plan to link new town

[Stillwater]

For this to happen, that car park outside Caboolture Station will have to converted to a bus interchange.  It is no use the state government welcoming a busway to Caboolture West, paid for by developers, if it doesn't develop the Cab. station car park as a bus interchange, possibly with shops incorporated to pay for part of it, AND then takes on the task of building a Caboolture North station near the showgrounds, with a shared car park there for the CN railway station, Caboolture Historical Village and the Queensland Equestrian Centre.

[Old Northern Road]

O-bahn

As far as I can tell most of this development is closer to Morayfield station than Caboolture.

[Gazza]

Good idea.

Almere in the Netherlands has some Cheap and Cheerful busways through the city, such that all of the population is within 500m of one.

They aren't overengineered like the ones here in Brisbane. Just simple 2 lane roads with signal priority where they cross arterial roads. They feed into the 4 rail stations in the city:
http://goo.gl/maps/u3q7e



http://www.humantransit.org/2010/10/guest-post-richard-lenthall-on-the-busways-of-aimere-netherlands.html

[Arnz]

o-Bahn?

A whole new meaning to 'Maglev Bus to Caboolture' (tm) 

[Stillwater]

East-West light rail -- Wamuran to Sandstone Point via Cab. Stn?

[minbrisbane]

East-West light rail -- Wamuran to Sandstone Point via Cab. Stn?

) that'd be amazing, not a bad idea to my mind. 

[James]

Why are we bothering to talk about a busway to Wamuran? Just hold on to the corridor for now. Realistically, Springfield line was only built at the insistence of the developer and Kippa-Ring has been planned even before Federation. There is no need for any form of busway talk until the area can support a BUZ to the station.

Why are we thinking about building busways in woop-woop when we have a busway with the middle missing 3km from the CBD?

[ozbob]

...  Why are we thinking about building busways in woop-woop when we have a busway with the middle missing 3km from the CBD? ...

[Gazza]

Why are we thinking about building busways in woop-woop when we have a busway with the middle missing 3km from the CBD?

Because a cheapo busway to support a major residential development with 60k people is not anywhere near the effort required compared to the tunneling needed to properly fill the gap on the Northern Busway (They could of course do bus lanes).

And why shouldn't we be aiming to get good, cost effective transit into new developments from the get go. This is a refreshing change!

Don't understand the negativity around this idea. Rockingham WA has one of these simple suburban busways, with 4bph shuttling people from the station to the Shopping Center and onto the forshore.
That's literally all it needs to be.

http://goo.gl/maps/V3LpZ

Anyways, integrating a busway with the development could theoretically result in cost savings depending on the suburb design, since you could make every other street smaller since it wouldn't need to accomodate regular bus services.

[Arnz]

Have to agree with Gazza here.  Cheap and Cheerful is pretty simple, even if it's just to improve reliability. 

However, I'm not in favor of the foamy stuff like o-bahn (maglev bus!  )

[dancingmongoose]

Have heard a rumour the tracks are being ripped up shortly