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Author Topic: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?  (Read 4277 times)

rtt_rules

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Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« on: February 12, 2012, 03:00:24 AM »
All,
I think most would agree on duplicated track island platforms are better for numerous reasons.

So when the GC line was built why was  Ormeau station built as side by side, not island?

regards
Shane

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2012, 02:54:42 PM »
My guess is it was simply cheaper to build that way - less to excavate out of the side of the hill on the down track side.

MBRL stations are all meant to be side platforms too, except for Kippa-Ring which will be a terminating island platform (a la Ferny Grove and Cleveland).
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Offline O_128

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2012, 05:59:28 PM »
My guess is it was simply cheaper to build that way - less to excavate out of the side of the hill on the down track side.

MBRL stations are all meant to be side platforms too, except for Kippa-Ring which will be a terminating island platform (a la Ferny Grove and Cleveland).

Ormeau, yeah I think I see your point, the cutting would have had to be wider to enable teh foot of embankment to allow for tracks, where as platform is ~1m above the track base.

MBRL, ok now I am confused, I thought it was flat out that way. If building stations on NCL, yeah fair enough as many trains don't stop and higher speed track alignment is easier to achieve for side by side platforms.

regards
Shane



The reason for the side platforms is something about trying to link the area rather than cut through it. I do prefer the islands though as it allows for fare gates.
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Offline HappyTrainGuy

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2012, 07:35:06 PM »
Side platforms also enables the corridor to be not as wide along with having straighter tracks.
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2012, 10:39:20 PM »
I don't see the need for island platforms unless you're regularly going to have trains using the tracks bi-di so potentially switching tracks, eg Mitchelton in peak. Though islands do make it easier to do fare gates.
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Offline SurfRail

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2012, 06:14:35 AM »
I don't see the need for island platforms unless you're regularly going to have trains using the tracks bi-di so potentially switching tracks, eg Mitchelton in peak. Though islands do make it easier to do fare gates.

You can do fare gates with either - depends on the station topography.  (Ormeau could have been gated up until the start of this year by reconfiguring some of the accessways to feed into the concourse, but now there is an exit to the new school at the southern end of the other platform.)
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Offline Gazza

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 12:30:26 AM »
Quote
I do prefer the islands though as it allows for fare gates.
Side platforms can have faregates. Look at Butler in Perth:

http://www.oneperth.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Butler-station-8.png


http://www.oneperth.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Buter-station-3.png

Lift shafts are a big cost so I reckon that influences designs.

In a cutting (Richlands) or Elevated (Coomera) it should be an island because people walk level across a bridge from the entry/carpark, and a single shaft delivers them to the platform.

Ormeau is odd. No lifts, and side platforms....One to ask the QR Historian?

On flat ground, side platforms make sense (Eg on Kippa Ring).

An island would need 3 lifts (One either side of the track, plus a lift down to the island)
Eg Bassendean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Transperth_Bassendean_Train_Station.jpg or Michelton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:QRMitchelton.JPG

Side platforms would only need 2, one on either side of the track.




Offline ButFli

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 01:59:59 AM »
Why do you need to funnel people onto a concourse to have fare gates? Why can't you just put a gate on every entrance to the platforms?

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 08:44:24 AM »
Why do you need to funnel people onto a concourse to have fare gates? Why can't you just put a gate on every entrance to the platforms?

Who mans them? 
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Offline ButFli

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 10:05:47 AM »
Why do you need to funnel people onto a concourse to have fare gates? Why can't you just put a gate on every entrance to the platforms?

Who mans them? 

Uh... no one? I've ridden plenty of commuter railway systems overseas where they have many access ways, all restricted by fare gates and only one member of staff at many stations. The London Underground and Overground, New York Subway, Washington DC Metro and Berlin and Munich U-bahns spring immediately to mind. Why is there the notion that Australians are special and a member of staff at every fare gate?

I suspect wheelchair access is the biggest issue but they seem to deal with that overseas.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 10:08:58 AM »
^Wheelchair access? Well obvs the NYC Subway, Underground etc are largely not acessible.

somebody

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 05:14:52 PM »
Quote
I do prefer the islands though as it allows for fare gates.
Side platforms can have faregates. Look at Butler in Perth:
Does this station exist?

I think this arrangement would only work out when the concourse is around the elevation of the surrounding area.

Pennant Hills station is an example of where they nearly did it.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 05:20:51 PM »
Quote
Does this station exist?
Does it matter? It's getting opened in 2 years time.
You know, I picked that image because I've seen it in the past and knew that cutaway view would illustrate how the pax flows work.


As a general rule with any arrangement actually, a single entrance works best, such as Toowong.....

Actually, Toowong explains perfectly how any sort of arrangement with more than one platform needs to be gated (Be it side, double island, or triple). You need to have a 'through' non fare paid concourse crossing the railway (lest you want to split the suburb), and the walkway into the shopping center with Sizzler and the Computer Shop fulfils this role in effect.
You then need a second circulation zone, after the barrier lines, which branches off to the various platforms.
The disadvantage of this is that you need to do a fair bit of decking above the tracks to ensure enough space for all this.

An at grade station with side platforms, is an annoying one to solve without being annoying to pax.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 05:36:22 PM by Gazza »

somebody

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 07:06:44 PM »
An at grade station with side platforms, is an annoying one to solve without being annoying to pax.
Indeed.  Ormeau is only populated on one side.  In that special case there isn't much advantage to an island.  Facilities can be put on the populated side, but if the other side is developed it would be annoying if it were gated unless staffed on both sides.  Ormeau isn't nearly as developed as the other GC stations

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 08:18:15 PM »
Why do you need to funnel people onto a concourse to have fare gates? Why can't you just put a gate on every entrance to the platforms?

Who mans them? 

Uh... no one? I've ridden plenty of commuter railway systems overseas where they have many access ways, all restricted by fare gates and only one member of staff at many stations. The London Underground and Overground, New York Subway, Washington DC Metro and Berlin and Munich U-bahns spring immediately to mind. Why is there the notion that Australians are special and a member of staff at every fare gate?

I suspect wheelchair access is the biggest issue but they seem to deal with that overseas.

If you travel around Australian stations, you would work out very quickly that unmanned barriers offer no impediment to fare evasion whatsoever, rendering them pointless.  Hence stations like Armadale in Perth, which have several gated entrances and which somebody can hop over or get around very easily.  Even our current manned barriers see people get through without too much difficulty.

From a manning, security and operational perspective, a big entrance plaza is much better.
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Offline Gazza

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Re: Ormeau station, why is it not an island platform?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 08:49:07 PM »
Richlands and Varsity are examples of the right set up. A single barrier line, with the office located to offer surveillance over the barriers.

 

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