Passenger loading and congestion reports

[stephenk]

The 07:19 from Enoggera (07:06 ex Ferny Grove and runs express Enoggera to Bowen Hills) was rather overcrowded this morning. I counted 60 standing passengers in the first car, which is usually the quietest of the carriages on this service. Much door hopping was observed at Enoggera.

An increasing number of passengers from Enoggera (and probably from Mitchelton and Gaythorne too) are now waiting for the following service at 07:21 (07:17 ex Mitchelton all stations). This is resulting in that service becoming busier, with 50 standing passengers per carriage being observed twice last week.

Given the 21-23 min gap preceding these services, QR should add an extra service departing Ferny Grove at approx 06:56 and stopping all stations. Before QR can say "but there isn't a slot through the city", well there is, as the service would run in the middle of a 10min gap on the suburban lines through the city. All we need is a train, and crew!

[stephenk]

I caught the 08:08 from Enoggera (07:55 ex Ferny Grove) for the first time this morning. Despite having seats available at Enoggera, the train filled up quite rapidly with approx 50 standing passengers/car by Windsor. Why, well it might have something to do with this train preceding a 17min gap for stations Gaythorne to Windsor as the next service is an express. Yet another reason why the service pattern on the Ferny Grove Line needs a big rethink.

Maybe a temporary fix would be to return all express services to Gaythorne and Enoggera (as occurred before the March '08 changes), as this would take pressure off the preceding and following all stations services?

[mufreight]

Traveled on the 7.57 Ipswich service from Corinda 26th Feb
did a rough count of the passengers in the leading three cars for a total of 189 so assume that the total for the six car train would have been at least 350.
Not a bad load considering the time.
Detrained at Dinmore, 27 passengers left the train there, only one using a Go cord tagged off so one must qiestion the usage of the Go card system or alternatively how many were travelling without tickets?

[Arnz]

Had boarded the dreaded 3:57pm Nambour service from Roma Street (aka #1L07) on 27th Feb

Boarded the end of the third carriage and did a rough count of the first 3 cars = 340ish passengers in the first 3 cars (with standees at the doors and down the aisles as well)  Noted the standees were about 15-16 in the doors and another 10-11 down the aisle from Roma Street to Petrie (totalling to around 350 passengers in the first 3 cars and assumably 650 all up in total).  This dropped to around 10-15 standees in the doorways between Petrie and Caboolture.  North of Caboolture, most seats were still taken, but a few people elected to stand in the doorways north of Caboolture (noted count around 220 in the first 3 cars leaving Caboolture, estimated around 450 pax in total when i took a brief look at the back 3 carriages during the 3 min "comfort" stop at Caboolture)

(Edit: Also, to note there was a bit of people doing door shuffling between Bowen Hills and Caboolture).

[stephenk]

The 07:55 ex Ferny Grove "Sardine Express" had 62 standing passengers in the car I was travelling in this morning after Enoggera. The other cars looked just as busy or busier. It also didn't help that the air con was not working properly.

I was sold a weekly ticket with an expiry date of today this morning. Good job I noticed before boarding the train!

[stephenk]

The 16:30 from Bowen Hills to Ferny Grove (16:20 ex Roma St) was 11+ mins late today, and rather overcrowded. I counted 72 passengers standing in the second car. As usual there were no announcements at Bowen Hills about the delays that were occurring to services. The only onboard announcement was when the train was further delayed between Bowen Hills and Windsor as it waited for a train to exit Mayne. 

[ozbob]

4.38pm Ipswich service from Roma St,  overloaded 5+

[ozbob]

The 4.38pm Ipswich service from Roma St is carrying very heavy loads all the way through to Oxley these days.
Today about 5 at Roma St, still almost a 4 at Oxley!

[Sunbus610]

I have to agree with this article from the Sunshine Coast Daily newspaper, 'Standing room only for commuters' . Rachel dear....us Sunshine Coast rail commuters' are not happy

[Sunbus610]

I hope I haven't missed someone else posting a comment like this but QR mainly (and some bus operators' too) need to apply a few decals around the vestibule areas in carriages which say "Please move down the aisle to the center of carriage during peak periods to reduce overcrowding". I don't understand why the sheep mainly huddle around the bloody doors on crowded rail services.

[Mozz]

Some valid reasons to not move down the aisles include:

lack of appropriate anchor points for commuters to hold onto
overcrowded carriages and the commuters have to get off at other than a city station

[mufreight]

Caught the 5.06pm Ipswich Service ex Central Wednesday 17th, crush load ex Central, sardine overload ex Roma Street \, got wores at both Toowong and Indooroopilly with more getting on than off eased to about the same loading as ex Central by Darra and still had standees on leaving Riverview.
Ran all stations to Ipswich and on arrival at Ipswich still had 57 pax in front carriage so more capacity is obviously needed.

[O_128]

ive been noticing capacity surveyers on  the 7:17 bowen hillstrain from manly

[stephenk]

4:48 Central to Ferny Grove express - 0 on the Derwen scale departing Central. Why on earth is this train express to Mitchelton? It could call at few more stations making for efficient use of it's capacity, and reduce the 20min gap for commuters travelling to stations not served by this train.

[ozbob]

SMU237 lead 3 cars 4.38pm IPS ex Roma St.  BASKET CASE. Estimate train load (6 Car) 1100 pax.  Crush loading, still heavy load at Oxley.  DS5 leaving Roma St, still a 4.5 at Oxley.

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks

I am advising you of serious overcrowding issues consistently on the 8.07am QR service departing Thorneside bound for Bowen Hills.  This is a peak service and it is running as a 3 car train.  This is unacceptable as it is a peak service and is often overcrowded by the time that we hit Wynnym Station and by the time that the service reaches Buranda it is a case of hardly being able to move within the carriage.  It would be appreciated if QR could increase this service to a 6 car train allowing more patronage as i have witnessed on several occations people fail to board because of the overcrowding.

[Derwan]

Feedback received, thanks

Surely with the additional sets available, QR could upgrade this service to 6-cars without having to go through TransLink.  It's not an additional service.

[mch]

1D08 from Caboolture at 6.40 am is a regularly crowded train.

1 from Burpengary
2 from Petrie
3 from Bray Park
3.5 from Strathpine (Runs express to Northgate)
4 from Toombul
4.7 to 5 from Eagle Junction
( I sometimes wonder why it stops there, but does drop off school children for Clayfield and Hendra on Doomben Line)

[ozbob]

Boarded the 7.27am Graceville to town this morning.  This service runs express Indooroopilly to Milton.  4.5 at Indooroopilly some punters left behind.

[Sunbus610]

Interesting........
QR's Passenger Load Survey Q1 2009
Click HERE
PS: I hope someone else hasn't posted this document somewhere here earlier and I've missed seeing it

[stephenk]

PS: I hope someone else hasn't posted this document somewhere here earlier and I've missed seeing it[/size]

It has already been posted. However, as some threads move off the front page quite quickly, there is absolutely no harm in posting the link again.

Maybe links to some documents such as this, and ICRCS - Rail Operations Review should be made stickies?

[STB]

Feedback received, thanks

I am advising you of serious overcrowding issues consistently on the 8.07am QR service departing Thorneside bound for Bowen Hills.  This is a peak service and it is running as a 3 car train.  This is unacceptable as it is a peak service and is often overcrowded by the time that we hit Wynnym Station and by the time that the service reaches Buranda it is a case of hardly being able to move within the carriage.  It would be appreciated if QR could increase this service to a 6 car train allowing more patronage as i have witnessed on several occations people fail to board because of the overcrowding.

Hmm, I know this service and have been on it many times.  It's generally only gets full when it hits Morningside, ie: squeezy standing, and all seats taken, although on occassions I have seen seats available.  I think the problem here is that it's a 6 car unit to Cleveland where it splits into 2 sets to provide the 15min frequency.  I would need to have a look on paper again to see how it works but I don't think it can be a 6 car unless the frequency dropped off again.

Will get back....

[Derwan]

On Friday I caught the train that departed Shorncliffe at 8:04am.  It was under 1 when it got to Boondall - and barely got over 1 all the way in, despite it being an all stations train.

This train is 15 minutes after the previous train - with another one 21 minutes later.

The trains I usually catch are the 6:45, 7:09 or 7:23.  These services (particularly the latter 2) are heavily patronised - often at a 1 or 2 by Boondall and sometimes pushing 4 by Eagle Junction.  The gaps are 24 and 14 minutes - with the gap to the subsequent service (7:49am) at 26 minutes.

This just reinforces the need to adjust the Shorncliffe services - even if additional services aren't scheduled.  We need more services earlier - both morning and afternoon.

[skippy]

On Friday I caught the train that departed Shorncliffe at 8:04am.  It was under 1 when it got to Boondall - and barely got over 1 all the way in, despite it being an all stations train.

This train is 15 minutes after the previous train - with another one 21 minutes later.

The trains I usually catch are the 6:45, 7:09 or 7:23.  These services (particularly the latter 2) are heavily patronised - often at a 1 or 2 by Boondall and sometimes pushing 4 by Eagle Junction.  The gaps are 24 and 14 minutes - with the gap to the subsequent service (7:49am) at 26 minutes.

This just reinforces the need to adjust the Shorncliffe services - even if additional services aren't scheduled.  We need more services earlier - both morning and afternoon.

Couldn't agree more regarding the Shorncliffe services - there is probably the right number of trains for now however the timetabling needs some adjusting as you say. In the AM peak, simply shifting the trains departing Shorncliffe 7.49, 8.04 and 8.25 to start 12 mins earlier would be a quick fix for now. In the PM peak things are a little better, however the near 40 min gap after the outbound 3.51pm is too long and needs sorting out.

[stephenk]

Kids back at school, parents back at work, and full trains again!

Caught the 07:06 ex Ferny Grove Exp to Beenleigh train from Enoggera the last two mornings. Both journeys had an estimated 45-50 standing passengers in that car (2nd) upon departure from Enoggera. Many passengers choosing to wait for the following ex-Mitchelton service. QR really need to fill the 21min gap preceding this service, and 23min gap for stations only served by the following train. Things can only get worse when the students start uni again in late Feb!

Any congestion reports from other lines now that the trains are congested again?

[Derwan]

Monday and Tuesday - 4:29 Shorncliffe Train from Central (the one after the 38-minute gap) remained at a high 3 all the way to Boondall.  Slight reduction to crowding at Banyo.  This is the worst I've seen this service. 

Slightly fewer yesterday (Wednesday).  Perhaps people got too annoyed with the crowding and either caught a different service, drove to Northgate and caught a Caboolture/Petrie service or drove all the way to the city!

[Jon Bryant]

Weired The Cleveland Line has been empty all week and a range of peak hour trains.  Maybe less congested roads that way or more choices to get to work has seen a shift.

[stephenk]

Weired The Cleveland Line has been empty all week and a range of peak hour trains.  Maybe less congested roads that way or more choices to get to work has seen a shift.

Whilst the Ferny Grove Line seems to the same as this time last year (although that is based on traveling on one service), some of my  work colleagues have gone back to driving this year either due to increased PT fares and/or INB problems. I would be very interested to see the March 2010 congestion report when it becomes available. I predict that Translink's policies (fares, lack of service improvements) will have restricted public transport ridership growth.

[Nightwriter]

I wonder if they are ever going to do anything about the 3.38pm Ipswich train - it seems to be more packed than ever, and there are days when people are left behind because they can't get on!

[Jon Bryant]

Weired The Cleveland Line has been empty all week and a range of peak hour trains.  Maybe less congested roads that way or more choices to get to work has seen a shift.

Whilst the Ferny Grove Line seems to the same as this time last year (although that is based on traveling on one service), some of my  work colleagues have gone back to driving this year either due to increased PT fares and/or INB problems. I would be very interested to see the March 2010 congestion report when it becomes available. I predict that Translink's policies (fares, lack of service improvements) will have restricted public transport ridership growth.

If PT ridership falls further (seasonally adjusted) the political heads must roll.  Every State and Local strategy and plan states that PT is to grow.  Atcall levels they have successfully/actively reduced the %.

They say one thing and do the exact opposite.   

[stephenk]

Weired The Cleveland Line has been empty all week and a range of peak hour trains.  Maybe less congested roads that way or more choices to get to work has seen a shift.

Whilst the Ferny Grove Line seems to the same as this time last year (although that is based on traveling on one service), some of my  work colleagues have gone back to driving this year either due to increased PT fares and/or INB problems. I would be very interested to see the March 2010 congestion report when it becomes available. I predict that Translink's policies (fares, lack of service improvements) will have restricted public transport ridership growth.

If PT ridership falls further (seasonally adjusted) the political heads must roll.  Every State and Local strategy and plan states that PT is to grow.  Atcall levels they have successfully/actively reduced the %.

They say one thing and do the exact opposite.   

I don't think it will fall (although it wouldn't surprise me if it did), but I predict growth will be less than forecasted. 

[Derwan]

I don't think it will fall (although it wouldn't surprise me if it did), but I predict growth will be less than forecasted. 

It's like trying to pour more water into a glass that's already full.  It just spills over the sides (seeks alternative transport methods).

[somebody]

I don't think it will fall (although it wouldn't surprise me if it did), but I predict growth will be less than forecasted. 

The latest Translink Tracker shows that growth has pretty much flatlined in the previous quarter, which was before the fare increases took effect.  I think that INB delays are a factor with this, but that couldn't possibly be the only factor.  There's probably also the lack of service expansion.

They say one thing and do the exact opposite.   

I'm not completely sure that they've ever been very pro public transport.  Yes, they have done some positive things, but they pretty much have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do anything much.

[stephenk]

50-55 standing passengers in the 1st (and usually the least empty) carriage of the 07:06 ex-Ferny Grove after Enoggera this am. Please fill the preceding 21min gap QR!

[ozbob]

Caught the 7.43am service from Oxley to town Wednesday 10th Feb.  Departed Oxley around 7.58, arrival at Roma St 8.06am, a couple of minutes late.  This service runs express Corinda to Indooroopilly, express to Toowong, express to Roma St.  Very good loading, about a 4.9 on the Derwan scale.  There is not much room left on some of these peak services ...

[stephenk]

I observed the 4:44 ex Roma Street to Ferny Grove Express running through Enoggera on Wednesday evening. Plenty of spare seats - so why on earth is this service an express  all the way to Mitchelton? I really don't appreciate having a 20min gap in service, when the express service in between can take another 300+ passengers!

[#Metro]

I agree.
There should be no express services on the Ferny Grove Line.
Almost all stations on that line fall within the 30 minute trip to Central. The single track section should be duplicated.

[stephenk]

I agree.
There should be no express services on the Ferny Grove Line.
Almost all stations on that line fall within the 30 minute trip to Central. The single track section should be duplicated.

One of the problems is that the current standing limit on trains is 20mins, and Translink's peak frequency guidelines are 20mins. Both are often exceeded, but personally I think the former needs to be increased, and the latter needs to be decreased.

Keperra to Ferny Grove is going to be duplicated by 2012 (ish).

[Jon Bryant]

I am sure if you asked most people if the would prefer more frequency at the risk of standing longer than 20 mins (and if chivalry prevails that should be mostly males) they will take frequency every time.

[somebody]

One of the problems is that the current standing limit on trains is 20mins

If Coopers Plains-Central is 21 mins on a coastie, and several standees get on at Coopers Plains, but enough people get off at South Bank, South Brisbane and Roma St to give all these people a seat, would that result in a breach of the service standard?

I suppose the assumption I am making is that more people will be getting off at these places than getting on.