Passenger loading and congestion reports

[ozbob]

Nice this ..

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Twitter

Taras Grescoe @grescoe

No more roaming for a seat! MT @seatsixtyone New #Thameslink trains show passengers where coaches are least busy.

[ozbob]

^ carriages have weight sensors.  A further development is incorporating that information into apps so that people can move on the platform to carriages that have less passengers (eg. Stockholm) before train arrives at the station.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Kristofer Tengliden @KTengliden

@railwaygazette similar system is in use in Stockholm. Load data is available realtime in a phone app

[ozbob]

 

[petey3801]

Had approx 90 boardings between Varsity and Beenleigh on the 0740 ex VYS this morning.

[ozbob]

^  holiday, be a few more later in the day coming home I expect!   

[petey3801]

Most certainly! I thought it was pretty good for the day and time!

[techblitz]

Going thru airport link at the moment on an o/b 330
About 10-15 cars around the bus

[HappyTrainGuy]

Had to catch the train back to bowen hills last week. Got on the 7.40 train and when it got to Bowen Hills there were still empty seats despite it being around 8.15 in the morning. In the first carriage there were 33 free seats at Northgate. 30 free seats at Eagle Junction. 22 free seats leaving Albion. It's school holidays but I still say there is plenty of room to cut the whole northern bus network and start all over again with emphasis put on getting more buses going to railway stations.

[James]

Had to catch the train back to bowen hills last week. Got on the 7.40 train and when it got to Bowen Hills there were still empty seats despite it being around 8.15 in the morning. In the first carriage there were 33 free seats at Northgate. 30 free seats at Eagle Junction. 22 free seats leaving Albion. It's school holidays but I still say there is plenty of room to cut the whole northern bus network and start all over again with emphasis put on getting more buses going to railway stations.

There is a lot of empty space still floating around everywhere in the network, primarily due to the high fares driving people out of public transport. Routes which were introduced due to chronic overcrowding in 2009 are no longer needed because of the reduction in patronage due to fares. Southside routes are the main ones which come to mind, the northside is in the same basket though.

[BrizCommuter]

Caught the 07:10 ex-Ferny Grove last week for the first time in ages. This is one of the problem 3-car services. 40 standees per carriage during school holidays, at a generally quieter time of the year. Not good, come Feb/March 2015 this service will be leaving passengers behind again.

[petey3801]

Had about 80 boardings on the midday Ferny Grove to City train today. Just think, if we have this many people in the middle of the day on a public holiday on 30min frequency and sky high fares, imagine how many would be attracted to a Perth style 15min service and proper fare structure!

[SurfRail]

The G: was running its normal weekday timetable today, loadings seemed slightly down over a weekend but that may have been a function of the higher frequency.

Excellent photo weather.

[dancingmongoose]

I forgot how packed the AM Springfield to Nambour train is, I was lucky last week it was school holidays, by the time we got to Sherwood it was standing room only.

[petey3801]

Caught the 7.09am City bound train ex Springfield (7.06 ex Springfield Central) to work this morning. Very impressed at the pax loading on this service! On arrival at Springfield, there were only single seats and longitudinal seating remaining, with many of those taken up on departure from Springfield. Standees starting to appear after Darra (couple longitudinal seats left, all gone by Graceville with fairly heavy standing load).
Standees down the aisles by the time we hit Toowong too!

[BrizCommuter]

07:10am from Ferny Grove was bursting at the seams this morning. Seriously hope that QR can find some of the NGRs for this and the 07:25am service before the deliveries are required for MBRL.

[BrizCommuter]

07:25am 3-car sardine can from Ferny Grove has passengers choosing not to board at stations from Enoggera, and quite a few passengers unable to board at Windsor. Overcrowding actually seems to be worse than last year!

[BrizCommuter]

07:25am from Ferny Grove 3-car 'sardine can' left more than 30 passengers behind at Windsor and Wilston last week. This issue has been going on for since 2014 with no sign of short term resolution.

[petey3801]

There will be no change to it until the NGR arrive and start service, most likely. Quite highly doubt it will change in the new timetable for next year, as it is mainly for Sector 1 (plus, it is likely there will be MORE 3 car trains around with this timetable until a number of the NGR sets come online).

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter was unfortunate enough to be on the 7:25am 3-car sardine can from Ferny Grove this morning. Passengers choosing to not board from Alderley, passengers unable to board from Wilston, and at least 20 passengers left behind at Windsor.

The 5:26pm from Central to Ferny Grove was also full (in car 3), with passengers unable to board at FV.

More than 2 years after the sector 2 timetables, the Ferny Grove Line misery continues...

[petey3801]

As I saw someone on the QR FB page put it, there are two options really:
1) Lower frequency but with all 6car trains,
2) What we have now.

Either way, it is the same capacity and nothing will (or can, without ripping off other lines) change until the NGRs are introduced later this year.

[SurfRail]

3 cars is in fact better because it minimises dwells and keeps platform crowding under control - plus it should be attracting more passengers who will eventually be able to spill into the extra 3 cars on each run.  Still, the current government will get some major brownie points if they order another 25 NGRs. 

Longer term, here's what I think needs to happen:

- NGR order increased to 100 x 6 car sets with delivery through to 2019.  Additional stabling capacity would need to be built - you can fit another 5 at Kippa-ring (expand from 10 to 15), and as I understand it the stabling at Redbank and Banyo could be increased as well.  The full order would replace all existing stock except for the the 220s and the 160s/260s, leaving the oldest train in the fleet at around 20 years old.

- Follow on order for another 100 x 6 car set at a rate of around one per month over 8 years, taking it to around 2030.  This would replace all remaining pre-NGR stock.  By the time the final train from this order is delivered, you would be looking at only 2 types in the fleet, a near doubling of current rollingstock numbers, and the oldest train in the fleet (NGR 701) would be 14 years old.  The follow-on order should be optimised for high passenger turnover, so more doors and perimeter seating.

- Come up with a more comprehensive assessment of where these trains will all fit.  In particular:

-- Conduct some assessments on what to do with Mayne (including the north yard) to improve its capacity and remove legacy issues like ancient layout, address susceptibility to flooding where possible etc.

-- Plan a second big depot somewhere, either by conversion of an existing facility or a new site (eg Clapham). 

-- New maintenance centre for the NGR follow on trains.

The intention would be that there are 2 maintenance facilities, 2 "big" yards with servicing facilities but not necessarily heavy maintenance, and various stabling yards further out on each line.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Questions begin as rail passengers left behind

[BrizCommuter]

As I saw someone on the QR FB page put it, there are two options really:
1) Lower frequency but with all 6car trains,
2) What we have now.

Either way, it is the same capacity and nothing will (or can, without ripping off other lines) change until the NGRs are introduced later this year.

Irrespective of whether the issue cannot be solved until mid/late 2016, the issue still needs to be raised to:
- Make sure the Ferny Grove and Cleveland Line overcrowding issues are treated as high priority for when the NGR and crew are available.
- Pressure the government into ordering more NGRs.

BrizCommuter is also skeptical of the not enough trains claim, when a whole stack of extra services have been added for MBRL and 4tph Northgate shuttles before the NGRs are available.

Brisbanetimes --> Questions begin as rail passengers left behind

It is great that this issue has made it back into the press after 2 years, when the CM did a story with photographic evidence. However it is still lazy journalism from BT! If they are reading, board the 07:25am from Ferny Grove, and bring an SLR (though there might not be enough room for the lens)!

[red dragin]

BrizCommuter is also skeptical of the not enough trains claim when a whole stack of extra services have been added for MBRL and 4tph Northgate shuttles before the NGRs are available.

Wasn't this explained that the rolling stabling yard that is the counter peak direction Caboolture line is where these sets will come from?

[petey3801]

Irrespective of whether the issue cannot be solved until mid/late 2016, the issue still needs to be raised to:
- Make sure the Ferny Grove and Cleveland Line overcrowding issues are treated as high priority for when the NGR and crew are available.

You honestly think QR aren't aware of the problem?? You're kidding yourself if you do think that! It is for this exact reason that the first few NGRs will be used to upgrade the current 3car peak services to 6car before retiring old rollingstock.

BrizCommuter is also skeptical of the not enough trains claim, when a whole stack of extra services have been added for MBRL and 4tph Northgate shuttles before the NGRs are available.

During the peaks, the yards are deserted. There is maybe one 6car train available for standby use (which, before you start claiming that train should be used to boost services, a standby train is needed in case things go wrong to prevent outright service cancellations unless absolutely required). The maintenance sheds are mostly deserted with only a couple trains in for maintenance at that time.
The new timetable (which hasn't been implemented yet, by the way) only achieves the new services through use of extra express running, greater use of 3car trains on sector 1 and reduction of congestion in the morning peak especially around Petrie as well as new stabling yard at Kippa Ring being used to reduce empty running (as well as Elimbah and Woombye when those yards come online).

[HappyTrainGuy]

Briz, Petrie-Zillmere outbound is currently effectively a temporary stabling yard in morning peak hour.

[Arnz]

The merging of the Caboolture/Nambour trains to a single all-day stopping pattern (2 patterns if including the Gympie North & the odd 3-car Nambour peak trains) frees up a few IMUs and SMUs elsewhere. 

An ICE is also freed up as 1x AM and 1x PM counter-peak shuttles are being replaced with the all-day Caboolture/Nambour express pattern. 

One suggestion is to use that ICE on the Nambour-Gympie North shuttles connecting to the Nambour-Roma Street/Ipswich runs.

[petey3801]

Yes, thanks Arnz, forgot about the merging of the Nambour and Cab trains! That alone saves several units each day.

[techblitz]

why oh why couldnt QR just take a little off the 4.30pm frequency and add it to the 5.30/6pm periods?
6-6-3 would have made the world of difference literally.....

5.47 ex central is the real embarrasment for QR...its been the victim of countless social media rantings.....do they even realise that a lot of people cant finish work til 5.30?.....when a cbd business closes trade at 5pm they usually need an extra 30 mins to balance..see out the peak lines etc....which means they are walking up to central and arriving at 5.40 pm......members who regularly use central post 5.30 will realise that the station is still VERY BUSY but usually settles down post 6pm....
Frequency cutback...not the smartest idea.....

the real fun is for people at southbank/park rd.....this is thier quality frequency on the cleveland line....

arr park rd : 5.45(can get on) 6pm(forget it) 6.15 hooray!.......looks to me like actual 30 minute frequency

Irrespective of whether the issue cannot be solved until mid/late 2016, the issue still needs to be raised to:
- Make sure the Ferny Grove and Cleveland Line overcrowding issues are treated as high priority for when the NGR and crew are available.
- Pressure the government into ordering more NGRs.

++ infinity

to be honest....if i was a regular victim of the 5.47 shamozzle i would just conserve my energy & catch an easily accessible BT rocket to buranda to intercept the 6.09 and judging by the amounf of people that transfer @ buranda & walk up to the station i would say quite a few are already doing that!

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter will be writing a blog post on how many extra NGR trains are actually required. Thus if we can formulate a list of overcrowded services i.e. passengers having difficulty boarding, and why, that would be helpful. Some to start off with:

Passengers unable to board:

07:10am from Ferny Grove - 3-car
07:25am from Ferny Grove - 3-car
05:26pm from Central to Ferny Grove - after 15 minute gap
05:47pm from Central to Cleveland - 3-car and 15 minute gap

And close to being full e.g. standing right down the aisles:

06:55am from Ferny Grove - 3-car (though has highly variable loadings)
06:54am from Shorncliffe - 3-car (very close to being full sometimes)
05:19pm from Central to Petrie - after 12 min gap
05:22pm from Central to Caboolture - after 12 min gap
05:13pm from Central to Springfield - after 12 min gap (or is the next service that is crowded?)
06:16pm from Central to Ipswich - after 12 min gap

Feel free to add or discuss.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Pointless harping on about the caboolture line as most of the overcrowding/standees comes from Albion-Wooloowin passengers where the walk to the car parks are significantly shorter than the walk from the Doomben/Shorncliffe/Airport platforms on the subs. Even if you get on an earlier train on the subs because its slow to Fortitude Valley and slow through the junctions at Mayne compared to the mains when you add the walk as well by the time you get across the overhead bridge that later caboolture/petrie train is already at the platform. Some are just as happy to wait a little longer if it means they don't have to walk as far. Boy aren't many going to be p%ssed  off when the Caboolture/Petrie services run express past Albion

With the new timetables for the Caboolture/Kippa Ring line running limited express Northgate-Bowen Hills the Caboolture and Kippa Ring services gain extra capacity for people going the longer distance while the ones causing capacity for the longer distance passengers in the afternoon are getting shoved onto significantly quieter airport services which can easily handle this demand. When you wait at level crossings at Sunshine or Carseldine you see the express trains go through and there's only a few people standing around the doors.

Frequency cutback...not the smartest idea.....

Meh. No one of the Caboolture line cares because the 6pm service from the city is the last train that meets feeder buses north of Carseldine. The sun is still up and yet the bus depots are full of buses. That's not including the hourly peak hour service that greets passengers Strathpine-Petrie.

[techblitz]

Brisbanetimes --> What it is really like on south-east Queensland's busiest trains

[BrizCommuter]

Brisbanetimes --> What it is really like on south-east Queensland's busiest trains

Good article.
Time to tighten the screws over the current Ferny Grove and Cleveland Line issues!

[#Metro]

Congrats. Looks like the media are very interested in your blog posts.

[BrizCommuter]

The 06:54 3-car sardine can from Shorncliffe was so full this morning that someone accidentally stood on a guide dog! 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Ummmm. The Caboolture line has always carried more passengers than the Gold Coast line.... and since when were trains being diesel hauled?

...meaning it had the train engine and three passenger cars.

[techblitz]

The 06:54 3-car sardine can from Shorncliffe was so full this morning that someone accidentally stood on a guide dog!

ouch that is bad.....
its all find and dandy for QR to tell people to wait another 6-8 mins or whatever for the 6car but the reality is the same thing happens with the 333/66 at kelvin grove...if the 333 is reasonably packed coming into the stop and theres 30 or so students waiting for the earliest citybound bus do you seriously think they are going to wait around for the next 66 to come through to avoid overcrowding the bus???....nope....they will just cram the 333 full to the front....and then some......this happened today on the 3.30pmish 333...

[aldonius]

Time to tighten the screws over the current Ferny Grove and Cleveland Line issues!

Tighten all you like, we're not getting anything for at least another couple of years. At least FG really only has those three problem services in AM, so we're not too hard to fix.

Priority will be going to Kippa-Ring though, I imagine.

[BrizCommuter]

The 06:54 3-car sardine can from Shorncliffe was so full this morning that someone accidentally stood on a guide dog!

ouch that is bad.....
its all find and dandy for QR to tell people to wait another 6-8 mins or whatever for the 6car but the reality is the same thing happens with the 333/66 at kelvin grove...if the 333 is reasonably packed coming into the stop and theres 30 or so students waiting for the earliest citybound bus do you seriously think they are going to wait around for the next 66 to come through to avoid overcrowding the bus???....nope....they will just cram the 333 full to the front....and then some......this happened today on the 3.30pmish 333...

How about the QR spokespersons wait an extra 7-8mins next to their car until they can get into it to drive to work?
This isn't London where the next train is in the platform 46 seconds later!