Passenger loading and congestion reports

[brad C]

Arnz
There will always be a need to stop trains from the short north at Caboolture, obviously as a transition for passengeres to intermediate stations.
Earlier trains from the short north also include a stop at Petrie, further exacerbating overcrowding.
If triplication does eventually extend all the way to Caboolture, it will then be possible to offer greater flexibility in services, perhaps by improving gaps between existing services necessitated by express headways.
This is partially to blame for the high loadings on T920 as the previous Darra service departs Caboolture at 0640 (gap of 17 minutes between the 2 services).
Following service, 1924, departs Caboolture at 0659, express Petrie to Bowen Hills and also has a loading of 4 by Petrie.
There is justification for an additional service between 0640 and 0657 to reduce congestion. Bob has highlighted this in previuos postings.

[ozbob]

I caught the 5.30pm Ipswich service from Roma St last evening.  Actual time of departure was 5.32pm, and was grossly overloaded.  I did a quick count of the lead carriage and estimate train load to be around 1200 pax at a minumum.  This is a 5 on the Derwan congestion scale. The train was IMU 105 which was interesting ..... at least the ride was smooth .. LOL

Overload eased about Indooroopilly (4).  I really think that by having inner city services it will help greatly, and allow more express patterns for the longer runs ....

Cheers
Bob

[Mozz]

Ipswich line today Tuesday 09.09.08 - 6.12am from Oxley by Indooroopilly front carriage had approximately 30 people standing with no seats available, by Toowong around 40 standing - by Roma street around 50 standing and this is at 6.30am in the morning and will only get more crowded as Summer approaches.

Only the foolhardly, brave or those who don't know any better catch the next train which is the 6.44am from Oxley which regularly hits 1000- 1200 plus commuters.

Might have to start catching the 5.35am from Oxley to have some elbow room while standing.

Or maybe things might get better in September 2008 with the promised timetable and additional services which have been mooted since March 2007 with the first of promised additional peak services on the Ipswich to City rail line for the first time in 7 plus years .......

[ozbob]

I have been catching the 6.12am service more often too Mozz, particularly since semester under way again.  Yes, amazing the old 6.12 is getting very very full these days.

I have mentioned again to the QR that pre-peak/early peak is a problem.  Hopefully we might see an additional service from Ipswich at 5.59am, that will split the 6.12 and the 6.44 basket case ex Oxley ....

[stephenk]

The 07:19 from Enoggera  (07:06 ex-Ferny Grove) was rather busy this morning. This train has been getting busier and busier in the last few weeks. After departing from Enoggera there were 62 people standing in the first car. Using the Japanese definition of overcrowding this makes the train 150% full! Yet as most passengers were standing for less than 20mins QR wouldn't count it as being overcrowded. QR really need to add a train between the 06:45 and 07:06 ex Ferny Grove as soon as more SMUs are available - although there seems to be under provision of services on many lines at this part of the am peak.

[Derwan]

I usually catch the 7:17 or 7:31 express services from Boondall.  Both these services are at a 1 or 2 at Boondall - and climb to 3 at Northgate, then sometimes 4 or even 5 at Eagle Junction.  The next service is 26 minutes later.  I occasionally catch the earlier service at 6:53 which is less congested but still often rates a 2 or 3 by about Eagle Junction.

Yesterday I had to get my fridge repaired before work so caught the 8:12 from Boondall.  This is one of only 2 additional services (along with the 7:17) that run during the morning peak period on the Shorncliffe Line.  It barely rated a 1 by Central - no doubt because it arrives there at 9:01 which is too late for people starting work at 9.

Even without adding morning services on the Shorncliffe Line, the current schedule could be modified to better cater for the times people are actually catching the trains.

[ozbob]

Came in on the 6.44am service from Oxley this morning.  Fully loaded by Indooroopilly then overloaded (score 5).  Nothing unusual there for the 6.44am from Oxley BUT today is a Friday and school holidays.  Must the be the 'walk to work' day effect 

I called into the  Walk to Work Day promotion area opposite the casino on my walk down George St.  Lots of nice goodies 

See there are advantages for catching the train!

[Mozz]

5.27pm from Central to Ipswich - congestion scale of 4.5 leaving Central 5+ at Roma Street, passengers left behind at Roma Street and Milton who couldn't get on the train.

[ozbob]

After the 'luxury' of travelling on the inaugural early-bird service leaving Oxley at 5.56am yesterday, I again braved the journey into town on the 6.44am service from Oxley this morning (14th Oct) ... LOL

And of course true to the form the 6.44am ex Oxley was a 5 at Indooroopilly, latent loads left at Indro, Taringa, Toowong and Auchenflower.  There is a plan to feed buses into Indooroopilly and Taringa when Hale St link madness starts ...

We will need some services long before that or there is likely to be a rebellion! 

[O_128]

Due to an error on the cleveland line today the 7:13 Doomben train [ex manly] which normally begins at cleveland today began at manly and it was a 3 car service it was a 5 at cannon hill and the bowen hill service after which is normally a 3 was today a 4.5.

[ozbob]

On board the 6.44am ex Oxley this morning (28th Oct). True to form a 5 by Indooroopilly (if only racehorses were so predictable).  The mural on the down wall at Indro is looking real good though.

Latent loading from Indro and at Taringa, Toowong and Auchenflower.

Estimate about 1200 pax on board coming into Roma St.  No attempt to manage the overload at all.

Cheers
Bob

[ozbob]

Some feedback received, thanks!

Some changed travel arrangements this morning meant that I caught the train from Sandgate (1918 at 7.11).  The platform was quite crowded and the train was about 1 minute late departing with about about 85 to 90 % of seats taken. By the time we left North Boondall (now 3 minutes late), we were now getting into the cattle class (all seats taken and aisles fairly full and crowding in the vestibules. This was only the fourth station.  It got worse of course and was made even worse at Northgate where we picked up people off a train that had terminated there due to a passenger having to be taken off in an ambulance.
Was not able to to clear all people at Northgate and the people at Eagle Junction were quite disappointed, some not even bothering to stand up as they saw the train come to the platform.

I know the people were only standing for about 25 minutes as compared to the 30-35 minutes on the Caboolture Line and I am sure similar or greater times on the Ipswich Line, but it still is over the 20 nominated by QR to indicate crowding.

It still comes back to service robustness.  The ability to cope when even one train is disrupted.  The people close in to the city must get frustrated as well when they can't even get on a train, let alone always have to stand up.

I did notice that the Nambour train (worked by 2 x 3 car IMU's escaped without picking up passengers at Northgate. Fairly full, but all people seated.

Also note:  I can see why they have not built the Redcliffe line, the bus companies taking people to the station at Sandgate would go broke if all of these people did not have to catch a bus.  Who knows, they may not even need the extra bridge to Redcliffe.  The progress they have made so far seems to indicate that it will take them at least another 10 years to finish the bridge.  by that time we may not have fuel to run the cars or the buses anyway.

I would also expect the next train from Shorncliffe would also have people standing for over 20 minutes.

[ozbob]

I was onboard the 7.14am service from Oxley to Roma St this morning (10th November 2008).  Started off at a 3 and built to about a 3.5.

Nice change from the 6.44am service!

Cheers
Bob

[stephenk]

Estimate about 1200 pax on board coming into Roma St.  No attempt to manage the overload at all.

On a 6-car EMU (with 248 seats/3 car unit) that would be 117 passengers standing per car?

I was onboard the 7.14am service from Oxley to Roma St this morning (10th November 2008).  Started off at a 3 and built to about a 3.5.

Don't let QR know that, or they'll remove it from the timetable. They managed to remove a service which was a 5 on the Ferny Grove Line in March, only to re-instate the service a few days later!

[ozbob]

Yes, I have counted 120 standing passengers in an  EMU carriage.  90 to 100 standing is easily achieved, over that it gets a bit tight.

QR admit that they regularly run up to 1000 which is their stated limit (6 car 496 seating, 504 standing total 1000 = already 84 standing per car).  They won't admit to carrying more than that although they do from my and others observations. Particularly on the Caboolture and Ipswich lines.

This is intriguing as the limit that is aimed for in Melbourne is 798, and QR themselves reckon that 750 is the practical loading for our system. The fact that they admit the trains are carrying routinely up to a 1000 is a bit of a worry.  There are many occasions where the 1000 limit is exceeded.  One day coming into Roma St on a grossly overloaded service a school girl fainted and I helped in the first aid on the platform at Roma St.  We have had reports of similar things on the Caboolture line as well.

I usually count the first or last carriage.  When I get on the seats are full (I check) and then I count the people standing.  I then note the net gain at subsequent stations.  Not that hard to do.  It is very difficult to do the same from the CBD though, although with practice it is easy to judge.  The first and last carriages tend to have slightly less loading than the centre cars, so a count based on the 1st or last carriage is also probably a small underestimate as well, when multiplied by 6.  I avoid the centre carriages like the plague!  LOL

I am going in on the 6.44am ex Oxley this Wednesday with a view to observing the loadings.  Come for a ride, it is fun!  Particularly if it is a minute or two late it then quickly degenerates into a basket case.  A journalist from the Westside news went for a ride late last week (got on at Wacol at 6.37, this is the 6.44 from Oxley) and was very surprised at how packed the train became!

[O_128]

I really do hope that the next generation of SMUs [after the current add next order] have 3 sets of doors with full longitudal seating.With over 1200 people on a train this is needed as loading is what slows a train down.

Also i always get on the last carrige of a train and at the beggining of the year i noticed about 2 regualars get on my train at manly now it is at 10.at manly where a parking spot was still available after 8 90% of parks are taken by 7 now. An entire rethink in how timetables are set up is definently needed.

[mufreight]

Refering to the preceeding post by Mario in relation to reconfigured or redesigned SMU sets, it is a fact that longitudal seats would improve the cram loadings for each carriage but one must remember that this rollingstock is not only used on short distance services, a through passenger from Rosewood to Nambour is on the train for some 3 hours and having to stand for over 30 minutes is borderline on safety hence rollingstock seating configeration is always a compromise.
The only reasonable and responsible solution to high load factors is the provision of more capacity which can be achieved by increased services which may require improved infrastructure.
The citytrain network is not a metro system as what you propose, when we reach Tokyo levels of population then perhaps rollingstock of the configuration you propose operating on a seperate network may be feasable.
One must question not the frequencies of travel by Mario but the distance that he travels and the time he spends on the train each journey.
The positive is that at least he is thinking and making a contribution.

[O_128]

Of course what i am propsoing is these trains if they ever get made would be used only on the metro system and the darra,manly,doomben,petrie and kingston lines. And of couse the nambour service should be run with IMUs.One other thing is that when a new timetable arrives peopel still cling to there old train which eaves some full and some empty.
there also needs to be a train between 6:58 and 7:13 on the cleveland line.

[stephenk]

there also needs to be a train between 6:58 and 7:13 on the cleveland line.

From which station?

Please read your posts, and check spelling, punctuation, and whether the post actually makes any sense before pressing the "post" button! 

[O_128]

From manly.Also s there any way to implement a spellcheck button other forums have these and i am a terrible speller.

[ozbob]

Just use firefox with a language dictionary.  That is the easiest way. 

This server doesn't support the smf forum spell check, slows it up to much.  Much better as a local function on your pc.

IE has a spell check too --> http://www.iespell.com/

Cheers
Bob

[O_128]

Thanks big help!

[ozbob]

You are most welcome Mario! Back to load reports, caught the now infamous 6.44am service from Oxley, travelled in relative comfort on board SMU233 this morning (11.11.08).  Estimate load leaving Auchenflower was about 800 pax (counted about 50 passengers standing, 50 x 6 = 300 plus seating capacity of around 500 = 800).  I travelled in the second last car for a change. This 'comfortable' loading  is possibly due to the tertiary examination period and reduced travel demand.  Still a good load for that time of the morning!

[ozbob]

The 6.44am  down service from Oxley 12th November DS5 from Taringa ...

[O_128]

Due to exams my 7:17 bowen hills service ex manly was a very comfortable 2 down from the usual 4 this train is also know as the school run.

[stephenk]

From manly.

I think you'll find the times are now 07:00 to 07:13, leaving a 13 minute gap. This 13 minute gap is actually an improvement for stations Wynnum Central to Buranda who previously had a 20 minute gap at this time in the morning peak in the March 2008 timetable thanks to the worlds most pointless express service (the one that wasn't any faster than the all stations train).

However if the 07:13 from Manly is getting rather busy, then it implies that QR need to increase the Cleveland Lines capacity and flexibility with duplication beyond Manly and/or 3rd platform at Manly.

[O_128]

That is now the problem as with all lines!
Unless translink decides to do some serious spending int he next 5 years the Cleveland line will effectively turn into caboolture/ipswich line overcrowding.Obviously the cleveland duplication is going to cost allot seeing as there is a bridge to be built and allot of Viaducts[correct me the suspended tracks like airport line] as well as the bottleneck at manly where one track comes under the bridge meaning the bridge supports will have to moved further apart which is some serious spending.Short term solution is a third platform at manly.I am guessing that both wynnum central and manly will be significantly upgraded int he near future due to pressure from developers to make the new wynnum/manly CBD Heavily reliant on public transport which means express services would probably rum from wynnum central to park road.Other developer proposed upgrades include relocating wynnum central station around 200m closer to manly as well as a Wynnum state high school and Wynnum hospital stations built but theses were knocked down by translink. Though 2 short term solutions inclde a service between 7:00 and 7:13 and 7:17 and 7:28

[stephenk]

Though 2 short term solutions inclde a service between 7:00 and 7:13 and 7:17 and 7:28

They may appear to be short term solutions, but the frequency cannot be improved without implementing the long term solutions! The latter 11 minute gap for stations Manly to Buranda is actually quite reasonable!

[ozbob]

Some feedback received, thanks:

Another good one from QR.

Yesterday afternoon, one of the normally crowded express trains 1197 R Street dep 5.22 pm Central dep 5.26 pm was worked with a 3 car SMU.

?Due to unit failure?

What a shambles.  As a result, people left behind at Central, Fortitude Valley and Bowen Hills.  The train was truly cattle class.

They must  be in a really bad way to not even be able to switch units with a normally less crowded service.

How long since they have received more of the new units?

Have they just given up?

[ozbob]

Some feedback received, thanks.

Had the displeasure of being one of our new generation 5 car units this morning.  The first car of the second 3 car unit on the train was locked and not able to be used on my train this morning and I thought this will be interesting.  This train (1D08 at 6.40am from Caboolture Express Strathpine to Northgate and Express Eagle Junction to Bowen Hills due to arrive Central at 7.37) is one of the trains that is almost always overcrowded.

Some gave up trying to get on at Strathpine and by the time, we got to Northgate, even some of the cattle were leaving the train to get a break.

At Toombul the 30 second stop became a 3 minute stop while the poor guard tried to find a space for a person in a wheel chair and some more people got off to just go and sit down and take a breather.  I saw one young fellow also leave the train at Eagle Junction and even others who gave up at Bowen Hills to go and sit on the seats on the platform (so near and yet so far).  While we often talk about passengers who have to travel from the further spread areas, have a thought for those who live closer in and are at the mercy of taking pot luck with being able to get on a train, let alone having a seat.  Train of course was 8 minutes late at Central and delayed further due to slow detraining of passengers.

[Arnz]

0625 ex Landsborough to Central this morning (train T908 if I recall correctly), a 3 - 3.5 the whole way down to Central. 

This train is usually fully seated/few standees before Elimbah (which it was per usual), but I've noticed that there wasnt much standees after Caboolture either, the loadings remaining at fully seated/few standees, this probably due to work/tertiary studies winding down for the year. 

I'm sure next year the 0625 will be back to the usual 3.5-4 loadings with fully seated-few standees to Elimbah/cram conditions after Caboolture conditions to return when work/studies start up again.

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.

IPS 15/12 5.42pm from central had a whole carriage blocked off!  But it was ok, because the train driver/guard announced that it was because the air-con had completely failed and it was way too hot to let people in. It was nice to be informed.

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.

Another interesting ride in this morning.  Thought I would catch an earlier train and miss the crush.  WRONG.

The train (1516) was about 3 minutes late from Burpengary due to following the 5.26 am train from Nambour (U908) which was late leaving Caboolture.

This has become a regular problem in the mornings for trains that are scheduled to follow Nambour or Gympie trains from Caboolture.

(I have previously sent suggestions to the people responsible for the 2006 ? 2026 Infrastructure Plan that would alleviate this problem, but no real response.  It would cost about 5 million(a good project to be done quickly), but would reduce the operational problems of keeping these trains on time and would reduce problems in the future when the extra north coast trains come online.)

As a result of this train being late, we followed it slowly to Narangba where we were put on the down road and arrived at Petrie about 4 minutes late.  As this was only about 1 minute ahead the time of an all stations train from Petrie (19R2 at 6.49 am), we not picked up our own passengers, but many of those for this train as well.  Of course this continued for the remainder of the journey until it quite difficult for passengers to get on and detraining passengers had to push past people or wait for them to get off so that they could leave the train.

The train arrived Central at 7.34 am (7 minutes late) and of course also delayed 19R2 which was due to arrive Central at 7.32 am.  I would have expected that this train would have been at least 4 minutes late as 1516 could not have cleared the platform until at least 7.36am.

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.  Refers 19th Dec 2008

I decided to come in on an earlier train (1D06 at 6.19 am from Burpengary).

I was surprised at the number of passengers getting on the train at this time of morning.  I have been on the train before, but not for a few months.

By the time we left Bray Park, a number of people standing and by the time we left Zillmere, getting quite crowded.

By Northgate and Eagle Junction getting into the cattle class and left at least 30 people behind at Albion.

They still have not got it right and will very quickly put the people who normally catch the trains from the stations close in offside.

These are the ones who will try to catch a bus or drive in.

Both options are a problem as this will further stress the roads and cause the knee jerk reaction of building more roads and in turn more green house gases and more pollution.

Round and round we go in ever decreasing circles until we tie ourselves in knots.

A bit like the solar power grant.  It is too popular so it is being stopped and then we are trying to work out other ways to pay people to create less polluting power generating technology.

If everyone had solar hot water for just the installation cost, we would be a long way further towards reducing greenhouse gases.

[Arnz]

I'm sure next year the 0625 will be back to the usual 3.5-4 loadings with fully seated-few standees to Elimbah/cram conditions after Caboolture conditions to return when work/studies start up again.

The 0625 (Train #T920 according to timetables) is indeed back to its usual 3.5-4 loadings since the School/Working year has started up again.  Would be interesting when University students come into the mix in a few weeks time.

[ozbob]

Caught the 7.28am Shorncliffe service from Graceville this morning (actual 7.31am) very heavy loading, 5+ at Indooroopilly (express Indooroopilly to Milton). EMU 01, the grand old lady of the fleet was the leading set (EMU 40 trailing), coped well with the massive overload.  Despite wheel flat leading bogie second car and failing air con second car. Arrival at Roma St three minutes late.  

Where are those extra services?

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.

Thursday 29 January.

Today I caught 1D08 ( 6.40am from Caboolture).  This train runs all stations Caboolture to Strathpine and the express to Northgate and then express Eagle Junction to Bowen Hills.

Only a few seats available departing Petrie, but people standing from Lawnton.  By the time the train left Strathpine vestibules and aisles were quite crowded (travelling time Strathpine to Central 30 minutes).

Well today Monday 2 February 2009 Caught 1D08 again and it was worse with passengers now standing from Dakabin.

Who knows, we may end up with people standing from Caboolture.


Again where are the extra services?

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.

Yesterday 10 Feb 2009, I caught 1926 from Deagon ( 7.23am from Shorncliffe arrive Central 7.58am ) and found that there were people standing from Deagon.

Deagon is only the third station for this train and to have people standing from the third station is getting serious. (It would be similar to having people standing from Burpengary.  More distance and time from Burpengary, but to have that level of crowding is really not good.  Of course, it got worse and really became crowded with people having difficulty getting on and at Eagle Junction I noticed some people still on the platform as we were leaving, so I assumed that they gave up.

By the time we got to Central, there was a person on the floor who had apparently feinted from the conditions.

Now to add to this, this morning 11 Feb 2009, I caught 1D10 from Burpengary (7.00am from Caboolture arrive Central 7.53am) and what happened, we had people standing from Burpengary because the service was worked by a 6 car SMU consist.  Now they show these as having a 76 ? 88 ? 76 seating capacity as opposed to the EMU 80 ? 88 ? 80 seating capacity .  The EMU units are being altered to a 77 ? 88 ? 77 capacity for better wheel chair access and I feel this is good. However, the SMU units have had even more seats taken out of the end units to provide for better wheel chair access to the middle of the unit and this I feel is wasted because wheel chair passengers prefer to stay near the vestibule to allow quicker detraining at their destination.  The reduction of seating brings them down to less than 70 in the end units and this is what tipped the balance in this case.  This means that today, people could have been forced to stand for 46 minutes if the train was on time (it was actually about 5 minutes late).

They are still not getting it right as they prefer to spend money playing with signage on the outside of units rather than getting the seating right for passengers.

Sometimes I can only shake my head and wonder.

[Derwan]

Just on the trip from Deagon, the service the person caught was one of the 2 overcrowded services from Shorncliffe (7:09 and 7:23).  I've highlighted this before, but I'll do it again.  These are the services from Shorncliffe:

6:45am
7:09am (24-minute gap) - Express
7:23am (14-minute gap) - Express
7:49am (26-minute gap)

The 24 and 26-minute gaps are unacceptable in the peak period.  So many people rush for the 7:23 train as if they miss it, they get to work half an hour later (considering the 7:49 isn't express).

The 7:23 is one of just two additional services provided during the morning peak period.  The second is at 8:25, arriving at Central at 9:01.  This service is underutilised and should be moved to an earlier timeslot.

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.

As yet this week, I have not had an on time train

Trains this week have been a problem no train within 4 minutes.  Most of this caused by overcrowding causing slow loading and unloading.

Worst which could not be put down to this was last night when it took 38 minutes to go from Central to Zillmere (14.95 km a terrific 23.6km/hr) departed Central about 5.03pm 2 minutes late arrived Zillmere 5.38 (11 minutes late) and what made it worse was the car(Older IMU) I was in, had faulty air conditioning.

Shortages and bad servicing.