Passenger loading and congestion reports

[ozbob]

I listened after the event to the discussion on removing seats and standing on trains (baby sitting today).

A couple of things.  Our trains have design limits in terms of the number of pax.

E.g. EMU (6 car) 496 seating 504 standing.  http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/AboutUs/MediaCentre/Fleet/Pages/emu.aspx

Removing seats doesn't change the design limit ( is it actually safe to cram more pax on? )

I have seen up 1200 pax on a 6 car EMU, this is seriously overloaded and possibly unsafe.

Removing seats may actually speed up dwell times.  As a stop gap solution to congestion ...

very questionable. 

Our trains are 3'6" gauge and have limits.  In Melbourne, 5'3" crush loads up 1500 pax (6 car)
can be safely carried. Queensland?  Don't think so.

[#Metro]

I have long argued that ripping out seats is one solution that should be looked at on both buses and trains.
It got a cold reception.

Ripping out seats should be considered, but not for journeys longer than 30-40 minutes.
This means that the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines are UNSUITABLE for this as these journeys are TOO LONG.

The Beenleigh line needs to be split into two patterns - an inner zone and an outer (served by expresses) zone, for this to work. Similar story with all the other lines.
Richlands, Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove can have seats ripped out, no problem.

[SurfRail]

I have long argued that ripping out seats is one solution that should be looked at on both buses and trains.
It got a cold reception.

Ripping out seats should be considered, but not for journeys longer than 30-40 minutes.
This means that the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines are UNSUITABLE for this as these journeys are TOO LONG.

The Beenleigh line needs to be split into two patterns - an inner zone and an outer (served by expresses) zone, for this to work. Similar story with all the other lines.
Richlands, Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove can have seats ripped out, no problem.

I can't see this kind of sectorisation happening reliably when all the trains are still based out of Mayne and only outstabled elsewhere.  (Witness the running of non-IMUs on the Gold and Sunshine Coast lines, including my oh so enjoyable trip home on SMU249 last night.)

[Fares_Fair]

I have long argued that ripping out seats is one solution that should be looked at on both buses and trains.
It got a cold reception.

Ripping out seats should be considered, but not for journeys longer than 30-40 minutes.
This means that the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines are UNSUITABLE for this as these journeys are TOO LONG.

The Beenleigh line needs to be split into two patterns - an inner zone and an outer (served by expresses) zone, for this to work. Similar story with all the other lines.
Richlands, Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove can have seats ripped out, no problem.

I can't see this kind of sectorisation happening reliably when all the trains are still based out of Mayne and only outstabled elsewhere.  (Witness the running of non-IMUs on the Gold and Sunshine Coast lines, including my oh so enjoyable trip home on SMU249 last night.)

You were impacted by the police incident on the line last night?

[SurfRail]

I have long argued that ripping out seats is one solution that should be looked at on both buses and trains.
It got a cold reception.

Ripping out seats should be considered, but not for journeys longer than 30-40 minutes.
This means that the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines are UNSUITABLE for this as these journeys are TOO LONG.

The Beenleigh line needs to be split into two patterns - an inner zone and an outer (served by expresses) zone, for this to work. Similar story with all the other lines.
Richlands, Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove can have seats ripped out, no problem.

I can't see this kind of sectorisation happening reliably when all the trains are still based out of Mayne and only outstabled elsewhere.  (Witness the running of non-IMUs on the Gold and Sunshine Coast lines, including my oh so enjoyable trip home on SMU249 last night.)

You were impacted by the police incident on the line last night?

Not timewise (or by this morning's incident at Fruitgrove). 

[Fares_Fair]

I have long argued that ripping out seats is one solution that should be looked at on both buses and trains.
It got a cold reception.

Ripping out seats should be considered, but not for journeys longer than 30-40 minutes.
This means that the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines are UNSUITABLE for this as these journeys are TOO LONG.

The Beenleigh line needs to be split into two patterns - an inner zone and an outer (served by expresses) zone, for this to work. Similar story with all the other lines.
Richlands, Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove can have seats ripped out, no problem.

I can't see this kind of sectorisation happening reliably when all the trains are still based out of Mayne and only outstabled elsewhere.  (Witness the running of non-IMUs on the Gold and Sunshine Coast lines, including my oh so enjoyable trip home on SMU249 last night.)

You were impacted by the police incident on the line last night?

Not timewise (or by this morning's incident at Fruitgrove).

Crowded?
It was an SMU so obviously no toilets were aboard.

[HappyTrainGuy]

What problem I have with that TT is that the trains aren't configured (operational wise - Stabling, maintainence cycles etc) for trains to be running of X line only. Nambour/Gold Coast lines don't even have rollingstock reserved for running them. They have perferred rollingstock such as the IMUs and SMU260s as they can meet the timetable but that doesn't mean a SMU200/220 or an EMU doesn't run the line. Its not uncommon to see the odd IMU shuffled into the Cabooltre-Ipswich line for a couple of runs because of a rollingstock issue. Queensland Rail have trialed reduced seating around the doors on EMU06 to offer more standing space but that's about as far as I can ever see seat reduction going. You say ripping out seats for the Richlands line with no problems but you have forgot about safety; mainly being the rated 130-140kph track speeds and its reverse partner, Kippa Ring who also has track speeds rated at 130kph (most likely 100kph signs until NGR can be fully rolled out).

[#Metro]

Does this problem have a solution or is it insurmountable?

I've stood up on Gold Coast services when they're flying between Beenleigh and Ormeau.

[SurfRail]

Does this problem have a solution or is it insurmountable?

I've stood up on Gold Coast services when they're flying between Beenleigh and Ormeau.

Standing at 140kph is not an issue.  Happens daily.

[Arnz]

People stand daily between Caboolture and Beerburrum operating at 130km/h or 140km/h during the peaks.  At that point of the journey there is usually only backward facing seats available at that stage of the journey, and some people don't like sitting backwards.  So no issues there.

[Fares_Fair]

... and standees from City to Burpengary/Morayfield most afternoon peaks.
Not sure of the maximum speeds achieved through that part of the corridor.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Speed wise isn't a really big issue for standees but for Kippa Ring/Springfield it relates to the shorter running sections. That info isn't recent so design changes might have happened since that.

[SurfRail]

Speed wise isn't a really big issue for standees but for Kippa Ring/Springfield it relates to the shorter running sections. That info isn't recent so design changes might have happened since that.

I'm not convinced Kippa-Ring will be rated for anything over 100kph.  Station spacing is way too close.

Robina to Varsity is signposted for 120kph (4km).

[Fares_Fair]

Speed wise isn't a really big issue for standees but for Kippa Ring/Springfield it relates to the shorter running sections. That info isn't recent so design changes might have happened since that.

... unless it has to stop suddenly in an emergency. This has not happened (to the best of my knowledge) in my 11 & 1/2 years of train travel on the Sunshine Coast line

[HappyTrainGuy]

Between Rothwell-Petrie there was a mentioned section of running between 100-130kph (I can't recall the exact speed/area/reason why but I think it might be similar to Shorncliffe/Caboolture lines where trains run faster depending on the operating service). If they have kept it in the final design plans I don't know.

Regarding emergency stops at speed there has been a few (well, not full on emergency application but there's been a couple where they've come close to or had SPAD) on the Gold Coast line over the years from people tresspassing in the corridor at night but the track/signals are easily visible at a long distance due to the wetlands/forestry/farm land or control has contacted the crew to advise of the sudden signal change.

[somebody]

Speed wise isn't a really big issue for standees but for Kippa Ring/Springfield it relates to the shorter running sections. That info isn't recent so design changes might have happened since that.

... unless it has to stop suddenly in an emergency. This has not happened (to the best of my knowledge) in my 11 & 1/2 years of train travel on the Sunshine Coast line

Even then the braking capability of rail vehicles doesn't come close to a bus AIUI.

[HappyTrainGuy]

rail vehicles doesn't come close to a bus

Thank you captain obvious 

FYI it depends on the rollingstock if you want to compare the throw/effectivness during the application process. EMUs are the worst for passengers as they tend to throw people more. They respond quickly but lose their effectivness during the course of the application compared to the newer IMU160/SMU260s which are impressive given that they weight 300t+ for a 6 car set and won't tend to throw passengers as much and slow quicker due to the different systems and types of brakes. But when you have people onboard all that can change when the passenger weight shifts up down and side to side as they move during the process which is the concern ie people bunching up and pushing others.

[somebody]

You're welcome.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Hahaha 

[ozbob]

Just arriving at East Ipswich, on board EMU48.  On the 11.35am Ippy ex Goodna.  Around 250 pax on board.  Heading out to Wulkuraka for look ..

[BrizCommuter]

Standing at 140kph is not an issue.  Happens daily.

Passengers stand day in and day out on 225kph trains in the UK.

Passengers are still standing after 1.4m/s/s emergency brake applications on many of the worlds metro systems day in and day out.

[SurfRail]

Passengers stand day in and day out on 225kph trains in the UK.

Passengers are still standing after 1.4m/s/s emergency brake applications on many of the worlds metro systems day in and day out.

There's even standing on some Shinkansen services I'm led to believe?

[ozbob]

Onboard IMU 166/163  4.18 ex Varsity Lakes, just left Helensvale, standing room only. est 550 pax ...

[Fares_Fair]

Onboard IMU 166/163  4.18 ex Varsity Lakes, just left Helensvale, standing room only. est 550 pax ...

pics?

[ozbob]

Later ..  now about 650 pax  (footy on tonight ... )

[ozbob]

Inbound SMU 227 5.27am ex Goodna all stopper to Caboolture, around 250 pax on board at Auchenflower.   The pain, all stations to CAB .. lol

[ozbob]

Petrie 6.54am, 4 minutes adrift.  Solid pax loadings to Sunshine, light now (50).

Lot of car parks almost full.

Dakabin - around 50 pax waiting for City train.  Usual verge parking ..

[ozbob]

Hope make the rail bus connection at CAB. Planning to get the rail bus to Beerburrum, then rejoin the Nambour rail shuttle for arrival at Nambour at 8.52am.

[somebody]

Inbound SMU 227 5.27am ex Goodna all stopper to Caboolture, around 250 pax on board at Auchenflower.   The pain, all stations to CAB .. lol

Exactly!  One reason why I've been pushing for a full time express on the IPS line particularly.

[ozbob]

Hope make the rail bus connection at CAB. Planning to get the rail bus to Beerburrum, then rejoin the Nambour rail shuttle for arrival at Nambour at 8.52am.

Managed a 'wee' break at CAB and made the 649 bus.  Dozen pax on board, I left bus at Beerburrum, one pax joined the bus there.

Got some good footage of an down PN freighter against a red light for cross with up ICE at Beerburrum.  Back on board ICE, left Beerburrum at 8.11am (scheduled for 8.05am) Should make that time up with a bit of luck ...  good load of pax on board, school is on.

[ozbob]

Presentation on the go card at Pomona went well. Boarded IMU 108 ontime at Pomoma at 1.55pm.  Front car loading only.  Est around 150 pax on board. 

[somebody]

Did you do Goodna-Beerburrum-Roma St-Pomona or something like that?  That shows true dedication.

[ozbob]

Did you do Goodna-Beerburrum-Roma St-Pomona or something like that?  That shows true dedication.

Too right, ended up on the 4.31pm Nambour to CAB service, now on  the all stopper to Goodna.

Pulling teeth is less painful .... lol

Absolute shambles at CAB, no clear directions ...

[BrizCommuter]

Passengers stand day in and day out on 225kph trains in the UK.

Passengers are still standing after 1.4m/s/s emergency brake applications on many of the worlds metro systems day in and day out.

There's even standing on some Shinkansen services I'm led to believe?

Yes, especially in the peaks in/out of Tokyo, and holiday periods.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Might be time to consider making the 325/335 half hourly routes now. I counted 24 people including myself onboard the 335 into Chermside and what looked like 27-29 max people onboard out of chermside (I got off so I can't confirm). Also saw the 330 stuck waiting for the 335 to depart. Given that the other times I've seen both has had usually about 20-25ish people onboard. Are there any stats on the 325/335 since the timetable mods?

[somebody]

I'd still say it would be better to have a 325 BUZ + 335 truncation.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Having used the 325/335 routes quite alot recently between PCH-Chermside I'd like to see that for the Webster road corridor. Better/more clear signage at the interchange and on the Hamilton Road stops would also help out at directing people to routes/stops. It's been interesting these past couple months seeing the patronage for the 335 increasing in the arvos since the timetable mods/P339 removal/335 serving Chermside interchange during peak hour. They've improved ever so slightly some of the network so hopefully they'll get a move on with this review.

[ozbob]

Headed out to BNE this am. Around 350 pax on board at domestic ..

Heading back home, on the wifi SMU275, around 150 pax.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Saw another 1 person onboard the 328... that being the driver. Great route that is.

[somebody]

Saw another 1 person onboard the 328... that being the driver. Great route that is.

What about the 329?  You've previously called that a good route.