Passenger loading and congestion reports

[somebody]

Feedback sent to QR (it'll go via TransLink):

Hi.  Today I boarded a train that was travelling from Shorncliffe to South Bank.  Being a Sunday, it was a 3-car train.

I boarded at Eagle Junction and the train was considerably full.  There were a few empty seats beside strangers - and some chose to stand up instead.

Being a Sunday, there were a lot of families boarding, however as there were only single seats available, families either had to split up or stand up.  Some parents were faced with the dilemma of sitting their child beside a stranger.  (Although one gentleman was kind enough to move to another seat to allow a mum and  daughter to sit together.)

The quiet car wasn't quiet.  Families had no option but to spread into the quiet car - along with their rowdy children.

This is not the first time I have been on board a crowded 3-car train on the weekend.

It is about time Queensland Rail ran 6-car trains throughout weekend instead of forcing families into uncomfortable situations and creating a negative experience on their journey.  Perhaps these families will take the car next time.

Hmm.  No mention of increasing frequency.

[HappyTrainGuy]

They still run 3-car trains during the weekend on te Shorncliffe Line. The one I'm on would probably rate a 1, with people sitting next to strangers and some just standing. How hard is it to run 6-car trains instead of 3?

Might be a case of not enough trains available in terms of their maintenance schedules, which weekends provide an open window for, compared to during the week.

Or it might not.

Maintenance runs on weekends?

Of course it does. Maintenance runs all day and all night, 365 days a year (yes, including Christmas).

Yep, the place never closes. Besides strikes the floods last year was the first time in years that the yard was completly shut down.

[Derwan]

Hmm.  No mention of increasing frequency.

I was being realistic.

[somebody]

Hmm.  No mention of increasing frequency.

I was being realistic.

I reject the suggesting that 15 minute frequency on the Shorncliffe line is unreasonable, but it may be unlikely.

[Derwan]

I reject the suggesting that 15 minute frequency on the Shorncliffe line is unreasonable, but it may be unlikely.

While I think RailBOT should continue to push for a 15-minute off-peak frequency (including weekends) on ALL lines, the purpose of my feedback was to address the immediate issue, where simply attaching another 3-car unit could alleviate issues without additional staffing requirements.

As there is no "peak" on weekends, there would be plenty of spare units to continue with the maintenance schedule even if there were another 6 (or so) 3-car units in service each day.

[SurfRail]

As there is no "peak" on weekends, there would be plenty of spare units to continue with the maintenance schedule even if there were another 6 (or so) 3-car units in service each day.

There is towards the Gold Coast in the morning and away in the afternoon.  Satisfactorily resolved for now by converting all weekend services to 6 car sets where previously some were running as 3 car.  In future - who knows, demand might be enough to institute some aspects of the weekday pm peak timetable in the morning!

[Cam]

I was informed that the 5.25pm Richlands service from Central today was a 3 car train. I was informed that it was absolutley full when it left Central. I guess that many at Roma St would be waiting for the next Richlands service 12 minutes later. 

[Golliwog]

There was a post on Translink this morning about 3 car services being in place for a Petrie to city service, and a Manly starter. For the Petrie service, they pointed out the next service was just behind it by 6 minutes, and for the Manly service, they were getting the Cleveland service that normally ran express just before/after it (I didn't pay much attention to the times they gave) to stop all stations to help alleviate overcrowding.

[Golliwog]

Yesterday afternoon I ended up on a FG express service home. Derwan Scale 5 at Fortitude Valley and Bowen Hills (I was in the front quiet carriage). I was standing all the way to Ferny Grove. I think at Keperra there may have been enough seats for all the standees, but if so ifeel'it would have been a fairly close call.

[somebody]

Used the 325 today.  I was surprised at how well loaded it was.  I would say that 15-25 boardings in the period I was on it, which isn't too bad for a service coming only hourly (1/2 hourly in the common part with the 335).  Still, I think that Everton Park upgrades are more urgent.

[SurfRail]

Lots and lots of full standing loads around Broadbeach today for Supanova, especially 745s. (Most of the crowdspeople were armed with a variety of plastic and foam faux weaponry too.)

[colinw]

This morning the route 554 to Garden City, leaving Kuraby at 7:50AM, was a crush load by the end of Stiller Drive, Kuraby. Passengers had trouble boarding at Settler St stop in Levington Road, and disembarking at Eight Mile Plains busway station was also troublesome.

[#Metro]

Got a photo?

I have to say, I think it is time the powers that be got serious about busway capacity. The new lights for the Eastern Busway are slowing down buses on the SE busway.

Core Capacity Expansion can take place in two ways

1. Convert the core to an automatic North-South Subway with a peak capacity double that of current (30 000 pphd or higher, the current busway pushes 18 000 pphd in peak)

2. Convert the core to a Bogota-style Transmillenio service, using high floor buses and tri-arctics (270 pax). The advantage of this is that you could retain some direct service. Assuming off-board fare payment, all busway stations becoming closed stations, aprons constructed at busway stations (just duplicate/extend the stations), and services every 20 seconds or so, you're looking at around 45 000 pphd, which is plenty. Now people can say 'oh, it's not compatible' but to that I say, if we are prepared to spend almost $500 million on 1km of busway at Buranda, then surely conversion to make the busway Bogota style would cost less than that. Metro options are good, but even the best metro systems can only do headways of about 90 seconds with special signalling - buses can do 10 - 20 second headways (i.e. Cutural Centre - 20 second headway currently in peak) with no special signalling. Cultural Centre is also class B ROW, whereas the busway itself is Class A.

The main trunk lines could be 222 City-Carindale, 555 Logan-City, 169 8MP-UQ, 150 Browns Plains-CBD Express, and 130 Sunnybank Express and 109 City-UQ. All other busway services would be turfed off the busway in this scenario to become feeders. Bus stops in the suburbs may need to be raised up, or alternatively, one trunk line is used for the high capacity buses, and everything else becomes a feeder.

In the short term, capacity expansion could involve drawing lines at all busway stations, like Cultural Centre currently has, and also placing sensors in the busway sub-stops that detect whether a bus is present or not. A light set in the roadway could then be set off when that slot is free so that the next bus can move in and use that slot. At the moment, drivers have to use sight to see if a slot is free or not, and this isn't always easy. Think of it as similar to the parking sensors and lights that they've rolled out at places like Westfield - there's a green and red light above every car space.

Time to start thinking outside the box.

[colinw]

No, and not sure taking a photo on a bus with quite a few school girls on it would be a good idea. 

I've been using the 7:50 and 8:20 route 554 services on and off for a few years now, and today was by far the most crowded I've ever seen it. 3 years ago it was rare to get the bus even half full by the end of Stiller Dr.

[SurfRail]

This morning the route 554 to Garden City, leaving Kuraby at 7:50AM, was a crush load by the end of Stiller Drive, Kuraby. Passengers had trouble boarding at Settler St stop in Levington Road, and disembarking at Eight Mile Plains busway station was also troublesome.

This seems to be very common whenever I have observed the route, which is usually at weekends!   (I believe the mosque is actually a pretty big trip attractor in its own right.)

[colinw]

Crush loads at certain times is not bad for a bus service that our local councilor repeatedly told us was unjustified. She refused to even lobby for it, until wedged by a Greens candidate a couple of elections ago.

I rarely if ever use the 554 on weekends, as my usual weekend PT usage either involves catching a train or getting driven to the busway to catch a free footy service to the Gabba. No point catching the 554 as it quits running too early to be used coming home from the footy or any other evening outing.

Weekday offpeak 554 runs seem to mainly carry air.  Hardly surprising with an unattractive hourly frequency. As I mentioned above, the 554 also does not lend itself to use for evening outings due to the early cessation of services. It effectively means that for Kuraby residents the busway is a 6AM to 7PM service with hourly offpeak service, thus in the offpeak the appalling half hourly Beenleigh line is still the better option.

I'm glad some people using the mosque are using public transport, as the parking situation around there is getting out of hand. Cars on the footpath and in all sorts of odd places.

[Arnz]

Daytime Gympielander ICE failed at Beerwah today on it's first day back
After a week off the tracks.  Took over 11 mins to reboot the units (pantograph went down and back up again) and left Beerwah 14+ late.

[somebody]

Had occasion to use the 11:15am 29 ex-W'Gabba today.  I reckon about 12 people boarded.  Certainly far better than I expected, but I still question if these sorts of loads justify the 10 minute frequency and direct service.  Certainly wouldn't in NSW, but they aren't a model to be followed.

[Golliwog]

Had occasion to use the 11:15am 29 ex-W'Gabba today.  I reckon about 12 people boarded.  Certainly far better than I expected, but I still question if these sorts of loads justify the 10 minute frequency and direct service.  Certainly wouldn't in NSW, but they aren't a model to be followed.

I don't think that in and of itself the 29 justifies the 10 minute frequency. However, it's a good release valve for the other routes (as far as Boggo Rd/PA Hospital anyway). I caught a 109 to the CBD a bit after 1pm, so hardly peak but we had nearly a full standing load across the bridge, and there were only free seats after leaving CC. A few did get on and off at both Boggo Rd and the PA.

[somebody]

Had occasion to use the 11:15am 29 ex-W'Gabba today.  I reckon about 12 people boarded.  Certainly far better than I expected, but I still question if these sorts of loads justify the 10 minute frequency and direct service.  Certainly wouldn't in NSW, but they aren't a model to be followed.

I don't think that in and of itself the 29 justifies the 10 minute frequency. However, it's a good release valve for the other routes (as far as Boggo Rd/PA Hospital anyway). I caught a 109 to the CBD a bit after 1pm, so hardly peak but we had nearly a full standing load across the bridge, and there were only free seats after leaving CC. A few did get on and off at both Boggo Rd and the PA.

Doesn't that show that the 29 isn't much help in the case of that particular trip?

[Golliwog]

I'd say it was useful in that most people who catch a bus to Boggo Rd now get the 29. If those people were still catching the 109, etc then there would have been people not fitting on that bus I was on.

[somebody]

I'd say it was useful in that most people who catch a bus to Boggo Rd now get the 29. If those people were still catching the 109, etc then there would have been people not fitting on that bus I was on.

They could also have used 209, 139 and 169.

[Golliwog]

Which I believe also have capacity issues at times.

[Golliwog]

I think the effect of the 29 can be justiifed with less people utilising the other routes. However its effect during off peak is very insigificant in comparison to peak. The Peak times generate high loadings where as its very rare to have a bus at least half-full during the off peak from my observations...

I would generally agree, though wouldn't say rare, just uncommon.

[somebody]

Saw a 113 I/B turn out of Ekibin Rd with 6 people on it today.  RECORD!

Completely empty happens reasonably often and 1-2 is the usual.

[SurfRail]

Saw a 113 I/B turn out of Ekibin Rd with 6 people on it today.  RECORD!

Completely empty happens reasonably often and 1-2 is the usual.

They should just run the 112 - upgrade frequency, and instead of terminating at Griffith Uni, extend to Mt Gravatt Central via the most direct route after doing the Mt Gravatt campus circuit.  Cancel the 113  - unless there is some giant hill at Amulree St surely they can just catch the 120 which is a better service anyway.  114s can just all be 112s to improve legibility.

[somebody]

Saw a 113 I/B turn out of Ekibin Rd with 6 people on it today.  RECORD!

Completely empty happens reasonably often and 1-2 is the usual.

They should just run the 112 - upgrade frequency, and instead of terminating at Griffith Uni, extend to Mt Gravatt Central via the most direct route after doing the Mt Gravatt campus circuit.  Cancel the 113  - unless there is some giant hill at Amulree St surely they can just catch the 120 which is a better service anyway.  114s can just all be 112s to improve legibility.

Is there a need to extend to Mt Gravatt Central?  What about the 177, doesn't that provide this service?

[SurfRail]

Saw a 113 I/B turn out of Ekibin Rd with 6 people on it today.  RECORD!

Completely empty happens reasonably often and 1-2 is the usual.

They should just run the 112 - upgrade frequency, and instead of terminating at Griffith Uni, extend to Mt Gravatt Central via the most direct route after doing the Mt Gravatt campus circuit.  Cancel the 113  - unless there is some giant hill at Amulree St surely they can just catch the 120 which is a better service anyway.  114s can just all be 112s to improve legibility.

Is there a need to extend to Mt Gravatt Central?  What about the 177, doesn't that provide this service?

Inflicts a transfer at an inconvenient point for cross town travel.  You can transfer to access the busway.  (I could make roughly the same point about the 177 - why not terminate it at Mt Gravatt Central instead?)

[somebody]

Perhaps, but I'd expect that the Uni is the main destination.  If you truncate the 177 how would Carindale be connected to the Uni?

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.

I am absolutely amazed at the similarity between the Indian and Cleveland rail service during the week day afternoons. The only difference being that everyone has to be cramped inside the Cleveland train whereas at least in India train travellers are able to spread outside the train. It is appalling to say the least the way train travellers are treated and are asked to pay for this appalling service. People are crammed into the train like cattle. This is a terrible situation and I cant believe noone is doing anything about it. Do we live in a civilised country ? Based on the Cleveland Train service the answere is NO.
Something needs to be done.

[STB]

Feedback received, thanks.

I am absolutely amazed at the similarity between the Indian and Cleveland rail service during the week day afternoons. The only difference being that everyone has to be cramped inside the Cleveland train whereas at least in India train travellers are able to spread outside the train. It is appalling to say the least the way train travellers are treated and are asked to pay for this appalling service. People are crammed into the train like cattle. This is a terrible situation and I cant believe noone is doing anything about it. Do we live in a civilised country ? Based on the Cleveland Train service the answere is NO.
Something needs to be done.

The one train that I do know of on the Cleveland line that does get rather cramped is the 5:25pm Cleveland bound service ex Central.  It's basically standing room from Central, but does even out by Morningside where seats become available.

[#Metro]

Increase ticket priced during peak hour!

[somebody]

Increase ticket priced during peak hour!

We're already seeing a tangible reduction in patronage due to prices and you want even higher prices?  Doesn't make much sense.

[somebody]

Saw an O/B 207 passing Buranda at 18:15 last night with a 3/4 seated load.  A pretty good load for this time of day.  Who says "City Precincts" services are stupid?  (207 isn't called that, but serves some of the city precincts stops, and only one other stop.

[BrizCommuter]

I am absolutely amazed at the similarity between the Indian and Cleveland rail service during the week day afternoons. The only difference being that everyone has to be cramped inside the Cleveland train whereas at least in India train travellers are able to spread outside the train. It is appalling to say the least the way train travellers are treated and are asked to pay for this appalling service. People are crammed into the train like cattle. This is a terrible situation and I cant believe noone is doing anything about it. Do we live in a civilised country ? Based on the Cleveland Train service the answere is NO.
Something needs to be done.

Cleveland Line - max 2.5 pax / m2
Mumbai Suburban Rail Network - max 13 pax / m2

[Fares_Fair]

I am absolutely amazed at the similarity between the Indian and Cleveland rail service during the week day afternoons. The only difference being that everyone has to be cramped inside the Cleveland train whereas at least in India train travellers are able to spread outside the train. It is appalling to say the least the way train travellers are treated and are asked to pay for this appalling service. People are crammed into the train like cattle. This is a terrible situation and I cant believe noone is doing anything about it. Do we live in a civilised country ? Based on the Cleveland Train service the answere is NO.
Something needs to be done.

Cleveland Line - max 2.5 pax / m2
Mumbai Suburban Rail Network - max 13 pax / m2

Any quantifiable numbers on the train?

[STB]

I am absolutely amazed at the similarity between the Indian and Cleveland rail service during the week day afternoons. The only difference being that everyone has to be cramped inside the Cleveland train whereas at least in India train travellers are able to spread outside the train. It is appalling to say the least the way train travellers are treated and are asked to pay for this appalling service. People are crammed into the train like cattle. This is a terrible situation and I cant believe noone is doing anything about it. Do we live in a civilised country ? Based on the Cleveland Train service the answere is NO.
Something needs to be done.

Cleveland Line - max 2.5 pax / m2
Mumbai Suburban Rail Network - max 13 pax / m2

Any quantifiable numbers on the train?

Most of those standees come from Morningside, where you can easily take on a heavy standing load out of Park Rd through to about a 90% full train but seats available after Morningside.  So while things can get quite cramped, it doesn't last long.

[ozbob]

612 ABC Brisbane Breakfast with Spencer Howson

Standing room only

Standing room only (with Transport Minister response)

You commute into Brisbane daily and enjoy your seat on the train. But how would you feel if you had to stand up?

Transport Minister Scott Emerson has flagged the idea of removing some seats so more passengers can get on.

612 reporter Tom Greenard is travelling on a train in the city:

Click --> here!

[STB]

I must admit I was slightly bemused by that passenger in that interview who mistakenly thought that he was buying a ticket that gave him a seat on the train, when in fact he's paying for a journey on the train, whether you get a seat or not.

[Fares_Fair]

Transport Minister Scott Emerson called in to correct the record re: this move being a budget initiative, he said it isn't the case.
It's a capacity crisis issue.

An ABC reporter boarded a northern suburbs train to ask passengers what they thought of having to stand on a train.
Mixed response for and against.

Mr Emerson; "[Standing on a train] is the solution we have to have" he said, "the alternative is for people to have waits of half an hour to an hour at the other end [from the Merivale bridge] to free up time."

Standing is not the best solution, nor is it something he particularly wants to do. It's a recommendation from the expert panel.
If commuters had the option to stand for a little bit longer or have trains delayed, he believes that they would accept the inconvenience.

"This [CRR2] buys us time." he said, "between 2018 and 2024."

Usual discussion on change in cost of CRR during election campaign etc etc.

"It would take 8 years to construct," he said "Labor had no solution for 2016 to 2020."
"Labor had done nothing for 2016"

They (LNP) will double the capacity of the line [across the bridge], and have quicker journeys with reduced standing times.

These are interim measures, this buys us time and is dependent on passenger growth and population growth.
It's a very tight timetable to get something done.