Unofficial notices in trains

[ozbob]

Been brought to my attention that some posters highlighting congestion have been placed in trains on the Sunshine Coast, over safety notices.

It was suggested that we might have something to do with it.

RAIL Back On Track has never encouraged such activities and never would.  Apparently some individuals have been spoken too, and one person said he was a member of RAIL Back On Track. 

Such person may also be a member of the RACQ and ALP for that matter.

We work via the media and direct lobbying. 

Just clarifying.

[ozbob]

Further to the above, I have been advised that the posters have ' sponsored by RAIL Back On Track ' on them.

This is not the case, we don't sponsor posters or anything else for that matter, and it is an unauthorised use of our identity.

Authorities have been advised of this fact.

[Derwan]

It is unfortunate that someone is attempting to give RailBOT a bad name.

[O_128]

It is unfortunate that someone is attempting to give RailBOT a bad name.

more than likely a commuter who is fed up of nothing being done. =/

[Golliwog]

Yes, but attaching our name to things is not the way to go about it. It's roughly the same as if I went around sticking signs up saying "I, [insert politicians name here], if elected will make being homosexual a crime" (yes, blowing it out to an extreme, but just making a point). Whether or not we have issues with congestion is irrelevant, RBOT is Ozbob's group, and any and all releases and advertisements/posters (if we ever do them) need to go through him first. You can't just go attaching a name to things because that's what you support.

[O_128]

Yes, but attaching our name to things is not the way to go about it. It's roughly the same as if I went around sticking signs up saying "I, [insert politicians name here], if elected will make being homosexual a crime" (yes, blowing it out to an extreme, but just making a point). Whether or not we have issues with congestion is irrelevant, RBOT is Ozbob's group, and any and all releases and advertisements/posters (if we ever do them) need to go through him first. You can't just go attaching a name to things because that's what you support.

I wasn't approving the actions, just stating the obvious. Despite all the efforts Nothing is being done and people are most likely fed up. Considering RBOT is quite reputable, whoever put these up would have added it to make it seem more "official". Either way I don't condone their actions.

[mufreight]

As a consequence of this irresponsible action the credibility of RBoT as a group has been damaged in the eyes of QR, Translink, TMR and the Government effectively negating the groups efforts towards improved services and infrastructure.
There are a number of ways that one can legitimately and effectively get a message to the general public without resorting to what the authorities view as vandalism.
One would imagine that from the positions in the carriages where these posters were supposedly posted that QR will have no problems identifying those responsible fron the video survelance footage from the in carriage cameras.

[SurfRail]

As a consequence of this irresponsible action the credibility of RBoT as a group has been damaged in the eyes of QR, Translink, TMR and the Government effectively negating the groups efforts towards improved services and infrastructure.
There are a number of ways that one can legitimately and effectively get a message to the general public without resorting to what the authorities view as vandalism.
One would imagine that from the positions in the carriages where these posters were supposedly posted that QR will have no problems identifying those responsible fron the video survelance footage from the in carriage cameras.

I think it would take more than that to be honest.  We cultivate good relationships with the authorities and I think they understand that we can't be responsible for rogues, much less people who have never even visited this site.

[ozbob]

As a consequence of this irresponsible action the credibility of RBoT as a group has been damaged in the eyes of QR, Translink, TMR and the Government effectively negating the groups efforts towards improved services and infrastructure.
There are a number of ways that one can legitimately and effectively get a message to the general public without resorting to what the authorities view as vandalism.
One would imagine that from the positions in the carriages where these posters were supposedly posted that QR will have no problems identifying those responsible fron the video survelance footage from the in carriage cameras.

I think it would take more than that to be honest.  We cultivate good relationships with the authorities and I think they understand that we can't be responsible for rogues, much less people who have never even visited this site.

[STB]

Someone on Twitter has posted a picture of what I suspect is that unofficial notice asking Qld Rail if it's a genuine ad/complaint.  It's the bottleneck Sunshine Coast campaign.

[SteelPan]

Sooner or later, any (and every) organisation that grows in stature, has some idiot come along and do something stupid.    it's just the way the world spins.  I'm sure the "powers that be" are only to well aware of this reality, let's just ask for a public floggin when the badie is found    and you will be, you will be, we'll hunt you to the ends of the earth and beyond... sorry,    just get a little wound up sometimes.... 

Storm in a tea cup in the long-run, but never nice to see something worked so hard for by Ozbob and his team, to be made use of, unauthorised,  by others!  chin up everyone!

[Mr X]

Can't they get a photo of whoever did it from CCTV?

[Cam]

Can't they get a photo of whoever did it from CCTV?

Do you think that QR would bother viewing hours of the footage taken in the carriage because a poster was placed there? If they bothered doing that then they must have the resources to view the footage for the day when a carriage is returned:

1)   smelling of smoke to find out who smoked on board
2)   with scratches on the windows to find out who thought the windows were a whiteboard & their keys, a whiteboard marker
3)   with small amounts of graffiti on the inside
4)   with litter left behind
5)   with muddied/marked seats to see who has placed their shoes/boots on the seat

My guess is that footage is only reviewed for assaults, robberies & vandalism that has caused extensive damage. The sooner that footage is monitored in real time by the guard, the sooner our trains become a less unpleasant journey outside of peak hours.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Who said the guard doesn't monitor CCTV cameras

[STB]

Just as an FYI, this was the poster that people were wondering via Twitter to Qld Rail if it was a genuine ad/complaint, which obviously it isn't.



http://s1-03.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/513964428.jpg

Bit sad it's covering up a nice ad behind it.

[Derwan]

Wow.  They even used our logo.  That's pretty sad.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Isn't that the same notice that was mocked up on here?

[Stillwater]

Yes, the PDF is available to be downloaded from the RailBOT site.  Anyone could have downloaded it and printed it off.  How many people visit this forum daily? 

[Derwan]

True.  It's from here:  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7079.0

It just wasn't a legitimate use of the poster.

[Cam]

Who said the guard doesn't monitor CCTV cameras

Please elaborate if you know what the set up is for the guard. I've never heard anything from a guard to suggest that he/she has seen just something untoward via the video cameras in the carriages. Typically, you hear announements about inappropriate behaviour in the third or fourth carriage in a 6 car set that the guard has seen whilst out of the train at a stop.

[STB]

What I find interesting is that the poster is within the frame.  I have no idea how the heck someone got it in there!

[ozbob]

What I find interesting is that the poster is within the frame.  I have no idea how the heck someone got it in there!

Yes, which does make one wonder a little 

The poster is fine, it is just not acceptable to be posting it in places where it should not be.  If was done up for t-shirts and for giving to your grandma, and friends.

The Sunshine Coast line is a national disgrace ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Please elaborate if you know what the set up is for the guard. I've never heard anything from a guard to suggest that he/she has seen just something untoward via the video cameras in the carriages. Typically, you hear announements about inappropriate behaviour in the third or fourth carriage in a 6 car set that the guard has seen whilst out of the train at a stop.

Newer rollingstock can live view CCTV feeds from the cabin monitors. Its available to them, but it doesn't mean that they are watching it all the time. Eg a passenger can contact the guard that there is a problem with another passenger or if a group of people are getting abusive towards each other the guard can monitor the situation and or advise control giving descriptions of the offenders who can then inform the police without having to leave the cabin. However if the guard isn't informed of anything or can't see anything its likely they would be unaware. The new wifi enabled trains can now enable control to view the same live CCTV feeds and report up to date information to police without having to contact the train for updates.

Edit: The advertising frames are quite easy to open.

[Cam]

Thanks HTG.

The next step is to have a number that a passenger can SMS to inform Translink that there is a problem & the guard can monitor the situation.

e.g. Caboolture train Goodna 5th car male black hoodie etc.

Sometimes you can't call for help when you are sitting close to the situation but you may be able to send an SMS - even if it was "help train Goodna" & the guard could then check each camera & make an announcement that could avert the situation escalating.

[ozbob]

Thanks HTG.

The next step is to have a number that a passenger can SMS to inform Translink that there is a problem & the guard can monitor the situation.

e.g. Caboolture train Goodna 5th car male black hoodie etc.

Sometimes you can't call for help when you are sitting close to the situation but you may be able to send an SMS - even if it was "help train Goodna" & the guard could then check each camera & make an announcement that could avert the situation escalating.

Been asking just for that Cam for around 4 years now ( a number that pax could use ) ...  they are worried that it might be abused ...

[O_128]

Thanks HTG.

The next step is to have a number that a passenger can SMS to inform Translink that there is a problem & the guard can monitor the situation.

e.g. Caboolture train Goodna 5th car male black hoodie etc.

Sometimes you can't call for help when you are sitting close to the situation but you may be able to send an SMS - even if it was "help train Goodna" & the guard could then check each camera & make an announcement that could avert the situation escalating.

Been asking just for that Cam for around 4 years now ( a number that pax could use ) ...  they are worried that it might be abused ...

Totally agree, the sms is something that can be implemented quite easily and a big PR event for the gov.

Pressing the help button is like saying come and rob/rape/bash me.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Thanks HTG.

The next step is to have a number that a passenger can SMS to inform Translink that there is a problem & the guard can monitor the situation.

e.g. Caboolture train Goodna 5th car male black hoodie etc.

Sometimes you can't call for help when you are sitting close to the situation but you may be able to send an SMS - even if it was "help train Goodna" & the guard could then check each camera & make an announcement that could avert the situation escalating.

Been asking just for that Cam for around 4 years now ( a number that pax could use ) ...  they are worried that it might be abused ...

Calling or texting Translink/Translink operated service would be a pointless situation in my eyes as they aren't as well established so to speak (Lack of knowledge of trains/internal codes and procedures/real time running/communication so to speak). Said service should be provided by Queensland Rail but funded by Translink. There could also be problems in locating the correct service if lack of information is provided such as "help train Goodna" but if they provide the line and train/carriage number that would help out a great deal. Its easy to see how it can currently be abused. The majority of the fleet don't have that ability so it would still be up to the driver/guard to have a proper look before confirming the situation and taking it any futher however as more and more trains are enabled; the live CCTV enabled trains viewable from control would be a great asset to market for passenger safety.

[Cam]

Thanks HTG.

The next step is to have a number that a passenger can SMS to inform Translink that there is a problem & the guard can monitor the situation.

e.g. Caboolture train Goodna 5th car male black hoodie etc.

Sometimes you can't call for help when you are sitting close to the situation but you may be able to send an SMS - even if it was "help train Goodna" & the guard could then check each camera & make an announcement that could avert the situation escalating.

Been asking just for that Cam for around 4 years now ( a number that pax could use ) ...  they are worried that it might be abused ...

Calling or texting Translink/Translink operated service would be a pointless situation in my eyes as they aren't as well established so to speak (Lack of knowledge of trains/internal codes and procedures/real time running/communication so to speak). Said service should be provided by Queensland Rail but funded by Translink. There could also be problems in locating the correct service if lack of information is provided such as "help train Goodna" but if they provide the line and train/carriage number that would help out a great deal. Its easy to see how it can currently be abused. The majority of the fleet don't have that ability so it would still be up to the driver/guard to have a proper look before confirming the situation and taking it any futher however as more and more trains are enabled; the live CCTV enabled trains viewable from control would be a great asset to market for passenger safety.

Perhaps, such a service should be marketed as a Queensland Police help line but operated by QR. Yes, it will be abused. However, so is "000" and a follow up SMS or call from QPS to those that are suspected of abusing the service with the threat of a substantial fine would likely put a stop to that particular person continuing.

"live CCTV enabled trains viewable from control would be a great asset to market for passenger safety"

Yes, HTG, it sure would.

We are talking about a help service for passenger safety. Ozbob, please don't drop this issue.

[Fares_Fair]

I personally know of a woman who experienced an awful situation with a male passenger who acted indecently, a few seats away.
She was too afraid to get up and move towards the emergency button, lest she be directly accosted.
Nor did she want to be seen making a call on her mobile for the same reasons.

A simple discreet sms of "help, 5:04pm Nambour train" would perhaps assist, provided there was a guard available to intervene.
This is a critical safety issue that SHOULD be addressed.


Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[#Metro]

Vancouver skytrains are equipped with a yellow silent alarm strip. Touch the strip and an alarm will go off, but the alarm is silent and goes off in the control centre.

Running or using the security intercom can be dangerous when its obvious!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Perhaps, such a service should be marketed as a Queensland Police help line but operated by QR. Yes, it will be abused. However, so is "000" and a follow up SMS or call from QPS to those that are suspected of abusing the service with the threat of a substantial fine would likely put a stop to that particular person continuing.

Any marketing should be directed more towards the Railway Squad (A division of the QPS) to give a futher insight and promote that there are dedicated members of the QPS out there that patrol trains, respond to incidents on trains, follow up on vandalism to rollingstock/property, help SNOs/tickets inspectors perform random ticket inspections, help with crowd control at stations after major events etc etc along with having offices based out of selected stations.

[verbatim9]

Shows how behind and Naive we are when it comes to PT security and innovation Except on this forum of course

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

14th February 2012

SEQ:  Emergency contact help phone number for Citytrain needed  (re-release)

Greetings,

An old release, but the need is as acute as ever ...

QR Citytrains is now Queensland Rail.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media Release 8 October 2009 re-released 14 February 2012

SEQ:  Emergency contact help phone number for Citytrain needed

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport users has called for a system to be put in place that will allow passengers on board QR Citytrains to discreetly contact police at the train control centre when they observe anti-social conduct or feel threatened when travelling.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"QR Citytrains have emergency assistance buttons.  One issue is that passengers on board who feel threatened, or observe anti-social behaviours feel that they are putting themselves at risk if they are seen activating the help system. If an emergency contact phone number was set up, and widely advertised in the trains it would allow passengers to seek assistance without drawing attention to themselves."

"Most passengers have mobile phones and it would be an additional layer of security for passengers."

"The fact that this number would be prominently displayed would also assist in discouraging anti-social behaviours and give passengers confidence that they can get assistance without drawing attention to themselves."

Reference:

1.  http://www.citytrain.com.au/about_your_trip/security_safety/trains_stations/trains_stations.asp

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ButFli]

Not sure if anyone is aware but there is an SMS system like this in place at Suncorp Stadium. They put the number up on the big screens and ask that people txt their row and aisle number to report anti-social behaviour. I have no idea how well it works but they seem to persist with it.

[mufreight]

Seems that once again we have gone off thread here, one must question how on train security issues are relative to unofficial notices on trains?

[ButFli]

One would think that unofficial notice posting is "anti-social behaviour". If passengers spotted someone posting notices they may be comfortable with sending an SMS to report it. Many passengers would (and should) be reluctant to use the emergency intercom for such an incident.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Just thought I'll pass along that these messages are still being put up.

[Gazza]

How on earth did the poster get behind the glass....Unhappy SC QR employee with access to the poster frames, that also commutes on the trains?

Horse may have bolted, but should I put some text down the bottom of the poster pdf..."Not to be placed in unauthorised locations".

[ozbob]

No one can control the population, if Queensland Rail are bothered they will take steps to identify the individuals who are doing it.  Conspiracy theories not withstanding .. lol

Our position is clear.

[SurfRail]

The frames would only need an Allen key (same as the bus stops), or something that could be jimmied with a bobby pin.  Not exactly the same scope as what keeps the cab doors locked, so there's no practical way to police it.