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The 400m rule- how accurate is it in reality?

Started by Mr X, February 03, 2012, 21:51:28 PM

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Mr X

I have been thinking about this "400m rule" that is supposedly a benchmark distance of how far people are willing to walk to their bus service.

I've seen it mentioned here before and at university as well. It's got me thinking, I would think that people would be willing to walk much further than 400m to access their local bus service.

Looking at google maps, for me:
Inbound, one stop is 360m away, the other is 300m away
Outbound, one stop is 460m away, the other is 480m away

A planner would argue that I am on the "cusp" of the distance people are willing to walk; is this really a correct statement? One of my friends lives in a suburban planner's nightmare in Robertson and walks over 1 km to the 130 and seems to cope fine. Likewise the closest bus stop to my high school was 700m away.

If you were dropped off at the Green bridge to walk to UQ, by that rule, it's too far. Or from Adelaide St to the "City Precincts".

Jarret Walker has posted about it on his blog:
QuoteAlthough the common standard is 400m or 1/4 mi, we all know that this cannot possibly be a hard boundary.  It makes no sense to assume that if you live 395m from a bus stop you'll be totally happy to walk that distance while your neighbor, who lives 405m from the same stop, will be totally unwilling to.  Obviously, the relationship between distance and willingness to walk is a continuous curve without sharp breaks.  This has to be said because our language often forces us to create the illusion of sharp breaks, e.g. when we say something like "people are generally willing to walk up to 400m to transit."
http://www.humantransit.org/2011/04/basics-walking-distance-to-transit.html

I'd like to challenge the notion that 400m is the upper limit of what people are willing to walk to. 600-700m I think is more realistic.

What do you think?
The user once known as Happy Bus User (HBU)
The opinions contained within my posts and profile are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of the greater Rail Back on Track community.

Golliwog

I think it depends entirely on what they're walking for. You are certainly more likely to walk further for a better frequency service. Mostly I think because if you walk slowly etc and miss the bus, it doesn't matter so much if they come every 10 minutes, but if its only once an hour, you'd want to walk home rather than sit at the stop for an hour. Which also leads to another factor being, things to do at the stop. You'd probably walk further to a shop interchange as if you miss your half hourly bus, you could do a little shopping, grab a coffee, etc.

Pretty sure 800m is also used for higher quality PT like rail, or BUZ type routes.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

O_128

#2
This comes back to my previous argument where we were discussing the elderly not walking more than 400m. Where do they go at there destination? I think stops 800m apart are perfectly fine. When I walk to tennerife some mornings I see about 5 people waiting for the 470, all baby boomers and old people. All perfectly capable of walking 800m to tenerife, Ann st or Brunswick st.
"Where else but Queensland?"

Jonno

Quote from: O_128 on February 03, 2012, 23:59:37 PM
This comes back to my previous argument where we were discussing the elderly not walking more than 400m. Where do they go at there destination? I think stops 800m apart are perfectly fine. When I walk to tennerife some mornings I see about 5 people waiting for the 470, all baby boomers and old people. All perfectly capable of walking 800k to tenerife, Ann st or Brunswick st.
Quote from: Golliwog on February 03, 2012, 22:06:23 PM
I think it depends entirely on what they're walking for. You are certainly more likely to walk further for a better frequency service. Mostly I think because if you walk slowly etc and miss the bus, it doesn't matter so much if they come every 10 minutes, but if its only once an hour, you'd want to walk home rather than sit at the stop for an hour. Which also leads to another factor being, things to do at the stop. You'd probably walk further to a shop interchange as if you miss your half hourly bus, you could do a little shopping, grab a coffee, etc.

Pretty sure 800m is also used for higher quality PT like rail, or BUZ type routes.

+1

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