Bulimba Glider

[Mr X]

Then upgrade it to every 10mins during the day on a Sunday? Or combine the Sunday and Saturday timetables...

It definitely does NOT need a peak hour upgrade.  

Re: profitable. Didn't I see somewhere that a bus service costs $6/km to run? The 199 would definitely be meeting this target IMHO.
Those 142 rockets I saw during the week with only 10 people on the other hand....  

[#Metro]

Quote from: tramtrain on February 03, 2012, 07:27:36 PM

You can see in Gazza's image below (Figure 1) that James Street is a coverage gap. It's the unshaded bit between the CityGlider and 199.
Sending a service down to the Brisbane powerhouse would allow access to a pocket of very high density housing and also complete
the grid in New Farm so that most residences were within walk of a legible
fast, direct service.

Gazza's image does not show the 470 which fills the void for those that can't walk a block or two.

Cityglider serves the commercial precient up to Doggett St, 480m outbound on Wickham St, 300m for inbound on Ann St.

199 and 196 on Brunswick Street is 470m from James Street.

Shopper service 193 welfare route also covers the far end.

Most of those few blocks that are >500m from the CityGlider or BUZ are heritage listed low density.

Let's deal with each of these concerns

1. Gazza's image does not show the 470 which fills the void for those that can't walk a block or two. This is true, but I was talking about coverage by services that have attractive frequency. Public transport is only useful if it exists in BOTH space AND time. This is where Cr Simmond's argument that 'Because Bulimba has rockets and an hourly crapola bus to Cannon Hill, that it is 'well served'' falls down. James Street is ideal for a high frequency service that is targeted for late night running due to significant night activity- cinemas, restaurants and the Brisbane Powerhouse. Lamington St also has very high density there too.

2. 199 and 196 on Brunswick Street is 470m from James Street.
This is a decent point, though I think that if a service were put down James Street it would be patronised well plus attract many new users for PT. The 470 isn't frequent enough plus if you look at the CityGlider versus the 199, they too are very close to each other. I think the same situation applies to James St.

3. Shopper service 193 welfare route also covers the far end. Useful PT services need to exist BOTH in space AND time. The 193 exists in space... but not time... as the number of services are very restricted. Surprisingly it recently got an upgrade as people were catching it. A James Street high frequency service to the Powerhouse would allow the 470 section and the 193 to be abolished in that area.

In terms of priorities though- I'd like to see a BUZ 400/359/230 done first ... but then again the patronage might mean that it would be cheap to run and might even make a profit.

[somebody]

Re: profitable. Didn't I see somewhere that a bus service costs $6/km to run?

Even if that is a fact, it would be an average.  I don't doubt that the 199 (and 196) is more expensive per km than the average bus route in Brisbane which moves much faster.

[SurfRail]

How do we know this?  Supposition?

Government has told me (although I admit I have not seen the figures).

Most other BUZ routes average around 40-50%.  The 196 will probably end up a bit higher.

[#Metro]

We could probably model the cost by knowing

- the speed of 199
- the rate of pay
- assuming that bus costs are 80% wages
- distance of 199
- time 199 takes from end to end

from that we can derive the cost per kilometre or per hour
and then add tolerances to that to get a ballpark figure

and voila!

[somebody]

How do we know this?  Supposition?

Government has told me (although I admit I have not seen the figures).

Most other BUZ routes average around 40-50%.  The 196 will probably end up a bit higher.

They're probably ignoring BCC's contribution.

Perhaps I'm a cynic.

[achiruel]

My idea for Bulimba Bus Routes

http://g.co/maps/y3nwn

Summary:

230 BUZ via Woolloongabba
235 BUZ via Story Bridge
Cross-town route from Bulimba Citycat via Riding Rd, Morningside Station, Oateson Skyline Dr, Stanley Rd.  There is a small kink in this route to go via Pashen St & Thynne Rd, but I believe it is justified in order to make the train connection at Morningside.  Connections with other routes are possible with CityCat/Cross River, 230 on Oxford St, 235 on Thynne or Wynnum Rds, 227 (&/or future Wynnum Rd BUZ) on Wynnum Rd, Morningside Rail, 214/215/220 is a short walk to Norman Park North stop, 210/212 along Stanley Rd & a multitude of routes at Carindale.  I think it would massively improve connectivity for Bulimba/Balmoral residents to other destinations in the eastern suburbs, certainly an improvement over the almost useless 232.  Frequency at least 15 minutes peak/30 off peak.  Might be too expensive for BUZ.

[#Metro]

Nice.

I would make some suggestions.

1. No services on Hawthorne Road. It's close enough to Riding road or the ferry for people to walk.
This would allow the frequency to be concentrated on Riding Road, rather than diluted across two parallel streets.

[SurfRail]

I'd run:

1. Morningside/Riding Road BUZ 230 - your existing green route from Bulimba to Morningside, then the blue route
2. Thynne Rd 235 - your existing red route between Bulimba ferry and Apollo Road, then the blue route to Morningside, then the green route to Carindale (except running via Bedivere St rather than Creek Rd so a bunch of other services like the 204 can be terminated at Carindale).

If you want to get to the Gabba or South Bank, hop on the train at Morningside or one of the express routes in the area (might need realignment to create an interchange point at Morningside).

[somebody]

My idea for Bulimba Bus Routes

http://g.co/maps/y3nwn

Summary:

230 BUZ via Woolloongabba
235 BUZ via Story Bridge
Cross-town route from Bulimba Citycat via Riding Rd, Morningside Station, Oateson Skyline Dr, Stanley Rd.  There is a small kink in this route to go via Pashen St & Thynne Rd, but I believe it is justified in order to make the train connection at Morningside.  Connections with other routes are possible with CityCat/Cross River, 230 on Oxford St, 235 on Thynne or Wynnum Rds, 227 (&/or future Wynnum Rd BUZ) on Wynnum Rd, Morningside Rail, 214/215/220 is a short walk to Norman Park North stop, 210/212 along Stanley Rd & a multitude of routes at Carindale.  I think it would massively improve connectivity for Bulimba/Balmoral residents to other destinations in the eastern suburbs, certainly an improvement over the almost useless 232.  Frequency at least 15 minutes peak/30 off peak.  Might be too expensive for BUZ.

I like it but I'd have the green route going via Cannon Hill shops as well.  It's about the same distance and some people shop there, even if it isn't as good as Carindale.

Does the blue (235/Thynne Rd) route go via Warner St outbound?  I'd hate that.

I'd think the Hawthorne Rd route would be busier than the Thynne Rd one which makes me think they should swap the bridges they are using i.e. Red via Story, Blue via South Bank.

[#Metro]

I like it but I'd have the green route going via Cannon Hill shops as well.  It's about the same distance and some people shop there, even if it isn't as good as Carindale.

I think Carindale is the place to go - it's the largest shopping centre in the area.
Pax who want Cannon Hill and beyond can change to a BUZ 245 (=227) down Wynnum Road.

[achiruel]

1. No services on Hawthorne Road. It's close enough to Riding road or the ferry for people to walk.
This would allow the frequency to be concentrated on Riding Road, rather than diluted across two parallel streets.

Okay, changed.

running via Bedivere St rather than Creek Rd so a bunch of other services like the 204 can be terminated at Carindale).

I changed that bit, to be honest the rest of your suggestions confused me a little.

I like it but I'd have the green route going via Cannon Hill shops as well.  It's about the same distance and some people shop there, even if it isn't as good as Carindale.

I thought about it a bit and perhaps a second cross-town route to Cannon Hill was in order, also servicing Cannon Hill station (which would have nothing if 232 was deleted).

Does the blue (235/Thynne Rd) route go via Warner St outbound?  I'd hate that.

So would I, I didn't draw the o/b route but it should go via Ivory St.

I'd think the Hawthorne Rd route would be busier than the Thynne Rd one which makes me think they should swap the bridges they are using i.e. Red via Story, Blue via South Bank.

Changed

I like it but I'd have the green route going via Cannon Hill shops as well.  It's about the same distance and some people shop there, even if it isn't as good as Carindale.

I think Carindale is the place to go - it's the largest shopping centre in the area.
Pax who want Cannon Hill and beyond can change to a BUZ 245 (=227) down Wynnum Road.

True, but the black route serves a dual purpose acting as a route between Cannon Hill Station and the Plaza and also something of a feeder for Cannon Hill Station as well.

I know the black route has a couple of kinks but once again I think it's worthwhile to serve the station.

It also gives Apollo/Lytton/Thynne Rd higher frequency for rail connection (admittedly to a different station), stops beyond Baringa St are pretty much walking distance to Morningside anyway.

[#Metro]

I thought about it a bit and perhaps a second cross-town route to Cannon Hill was in order, also servicing Cannon Hill station (which would have nothing if 232 was deleted).

I think people can just change to Wynnum Road services. The CFN needs to go down Wynnum road as well, in the form of the BUZ 245 (=227 or 220)

If a route is going to Cannon Hill, I think it needs to go down Oxford street for maximum utility and decent connections at Bulimba Ferry.
This could be done by sending the bus a bit further along Lytton Road into Oxford Street. In fact, the 235 could also be done like this to concentrate frequency on Oxford Street. That's where the frequency needs to be - on Oxford street.

[#Metro]

Here's what I drew

230 BUZ - straight down Riding Road

235 (BUZ?) straight down Thynne Road BUT then diverting to go down Riding Road Oxford Street (now there is access to the main street for shopping!)
doing this DOUBLES the frequency on Oxford street by concentration.

232- Removed from the CBD and steam ironed so that the route follows all the other routes, re-enforcing their frequency by co-ordination
Service is steam ironed to run directly to Cannon Hill and also act as a rail and ferry feeder. People on the Cleveland line can now access Cannon Hill without
having to go to the CBD first. Bulimba originating pax can also get onto the Cleveland line and so forth without having to go all the way to South Bank.
Pax for Carindale, change to a 590, or change at Wooloongabba.

[#Metro]

It is possible to get improved services for Oxford street for almost no cost, right now, by simply altering the 235 to use Lytton Road to run the bus down Oxford Street.

[Mr X]

I assume you are streamlining out the horrid Heidelberg St bit?

[achiruel]

I assume you are streamlining out the horrid Heidelberg St bit?

Yes - is it really that far to walk to Lytton Rd or Latrobe St?  ACGS might not like it, but we're not running a school bus service here.

[#Metro]

IF you want a school bus service, just run a temporary diversion once before school starts, and once after school finishes.

[achiruel]

Good idea - such a diversion would also advise other commuters to avoid the service, if possible 

[Mr X]

I assume you are streamlining out the horrid Heidelberg St bit?

Yes - is it really that far to walk to Lytton Rd or Latrobe St?  ACGS might not like it, but we're not running a school bus service here.

Tbh the Lytton Rd stop isn't that much further at all!
As for ACGS- i went there for 5 years and it had plenty of direct BT and private school buses (around 7-8 BT air parcels IIRC). only issue is staying back, which i did twice weekly and being stuck on the dreadful 230/235.,,

[somebody]

I thought about it a bit and perhaps a second cross-town route to Cannon Hill was in order, also servicing Cannon Hill station (which would have nothing if 232 was deleted).

I think people can just change to Wynnum Road services. The CFN needs to go down Wynnum road as well, in the form of the BUZ 245 (=227 or 220)

I think one step at a time.  Wynnum Rd services are pretty dodgy now.

[O_128]

On a 230 to bulimba, just left south bank, standing room only, next bus not for over 40min.

We don't need a BUZ?

[#Metro]

Can you take a photo please if you have an iPhone?

[Otto]

On a 230 to bulimba, just left south bank, standing room only, next bus not for over 40min.

We don't need a BUZ?

That's nothing unusual for the time of day..

[Mr X]

On a 230 to bulimba, just left south bank, standing room only, next bus not for over 40min.

We don't need a BUZ?

That happened quite a lot when I used to use it, especially counter peak in the afternoons.

I wonder if the 314 gets "overcrowded" HA HA

[#Metro]

I went to bulimba again tonight.

Can TransLink PLEASE fix this! I caught a 235 around 6 pm thinking "ahhh it will turn into a 230 5 minutes after terminating"
NOPE!

Bus terminated then sped off, next 230 bus almost an HOUR away. Rubbish!
So I got caught at Apollo Road Ferry terminal being eaten by mosquitoes.

Bus on the way home was also late tonight, and there is NO WAY people along Riding Road are going to walk to the ferry terminal at night
when the bus service operates one way (exit only).

What a bloody farce the 230/235 system is!

Weekend services are shocking too - 232 Cannon Hill is slotted in there but that is horribly slow, is a safari and doesn't even go to the City.

[somebody]

Weekend services are shocking too - 232 Cannon Hill is slotted in there but that is horribly slow, is a safari and doesn't even go to the City.

Huh?  Yes it does go to the city, to Edward St.

[Gazza]

Forgot to post, but I got a generic response, like the others, to my letter to Julian Simmonds.

[#Metro]

Coming to think of it, route 232 should just be ironed straight. Once there are BUZ service on 230 and 235, you can run a 232 from City-Valley direct to Cannon Hill via Story Bridge and Wynnum Road. With decent frequency on 230 and 235 interchange becomes viable and there then is no need to do safaris in Bulimba.

[SurfRail]

Coming to think of it, route 232 should just be ironed straight. Once there are BUZ service on 230 and 235, you can run a 232 from City-Valley direct to Cannon Hill via Story Bridge and Wynnum Road. With decent frequency on 230 and 235 interchange becomes viable and there then is no need to do safaris in Bulimba.

So just delete and run more 227s.

[somebody]

So just delete and run more 227s.

There may be value in connecting Bulimba with Cannon Hill/Carindale.

[#Metro]

There may be value in connecting Bulimba with Cannon Hill/Carindale.

Oh, but they can still do this! Once 230 and 235 are frequent, they can interchange along wynnum road to the 232. The new, steam ironed 232 goes straight to Cannon Hill from the Valley via Shaftson Ave - much faster, direct etc.

[somebody]

There may be value in connecting Bulimba with Cannon Hill/Carindale.

Oh, but they can still do this! Once 230 and 235 are frequent, they can interchange along wynnum road to the 232. The new, steam ironed 232 goes straight to Cannon Hill from the Valley via Shaftson Ave - much faster, direct etc.

I was responding to deleting the 232.

[kazzac]

On a 230 to bulimba, just left south bank, standing room only, next bus not for over 40min.

We don't need a BUZ?

We DO need a BUZ in this area!! .I agree,More people from this area Bulimba/Balmoral will have to keep complaining about poor bus services,especially on weekends,Nearly every weekend lately Cleveland line has been closed due to trackwork,etc,I dont live close to Citycat terminal here,also anyone further down Thynne Rd near Lytton  Rd isnt very close to train stn[I can walk there in 10 minutes]ON Sundays 90 minutes between i/b-o/b 235 services,not good enough!

[#Metro]

Last night (just after 6:45 pm) I was at Wooloongabba again trying to get to Bulimba for dinner - nope. Just missed the bus by a few minutes and next bus not around for another 45 minutes!

Why is it SO HARD to get to Bulimba at night?

Isn't this ridiculous?


I thought of getting the ferry but there really isn't a good bus-ferry interchange, and the ferry is slow, plus more waiting.
Decided to get the ferry option, so went to South Bank, walking but then just ate at South Bank.

Aaaaaarrrrghh!! 

[somebody]

Couldn't you get on the city cat at Mowbray Park or Norman Park?  Perhaps I am missing something.

[SurfRail]

Couldn't you get on the city cat at Mowbray Park or Norman Park?  Perhaps I am missing something.

It's a fair hop from the Gabba!

[#Metro]

Couldn't you get on the city cat at Mowbray Park or Norman Park?  Perhaps I am missing something.

No, you are right. With 45 minutes, it would have been faster to walk to Bulimba down Riding road IMHO (No I am not being sarcastic either, it *IS* probably faster).

[somebody]

Couldn't you get on the city cat at Mowbray Park or Norman Park?  Perhaps I am missing something.

It's a fair hop from the Gabba!

210/212/184/185 take you a fair part of the way.  If coming reasonably soon.  Even if not, I'd think it would be better than going backwards a still substantial hop to go forward.

[#Metro]

210/212/184/185

How are people expected to know this?
Why is the inconvenience of this even remotely acceptable?
Why should I have to waste time simply because decent services aren't put on?

BUZ the 230!!