Article: New CityGlider to link stadiums with entertainment precincts

[STB]

San francisco: sometimes cuts are an improvement http://www.humantransit.org/2009/11/san-francisco-cuts-for-effectiveness.html

"decomissioned"
"retired"
"removed from service"
"withdraw"
"consolidate"

I like cut because it is the most direct and uses the fewest letters.

It can also be seen as aggressive or inflammatory form of language, depending on your audience.  Personally I would use consolidate or restructure.

[Fares_Fair]

How about 'prune'?

that's good.
or dismember, bifurcate (break into 2), supersede, optimise, ephemerate .. looking for Roget's thesaurus.

[STB]

If ever there was a brilliant example of the stupidity of inner city dwellers, this below sentence would be it.  Shame on the politicians and planners to pander to this idiocy. 

Council public and active transport chairman Julian Simmonds said Brisbane commuters were crying out for a crosstown service that didn't require them to change buses.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/west/maroon-cityglider-a-stunt/story-fn8m0u4y-1226259243195

Duplicating routes on top of other frequent routes just confuses the network.  If you want to go somewhere, then you have to transfer, there are plenty of services within the inner radius of the city to do just that, end of story.

All I'd say to BCC, butt out of the planning and let the state do what it needs to do and stop trying to get the upper hand on TransLink (the state), you've been doing it for a long time now and it needs to end!  Also, stop being children and let TL sort out the branding of the BT buses properly, it's a small token but at least it shows the network as an integrated system to Joe Blow who hardly ever catches the bus.

[#Metro]

 

Council public and active transport chairman Julian Simmonds said Brisbane commuters were crying out for a crosstown service that didn't require them to change buses.

Would all the BCC please read Human Transit post. Ugh. They are running the bus service like a public taxi service!
WASTE!!

[Jonas Jade]

If ever there was a brilliant example of the stupidity of inner city dwellers, this below sentence would be it.  Shame on the politicians and planners to pander to this idiocy. 

Council public and active transport chairman Julian Simmonds said Brisbane commuters were crying out for a crosstown service that didn't require them to change buses.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/west/maroon-cityglider-a-stunt/story-fn8m0u4y-1226259243195

I wonder if she thinks they're also crying out for services that stop outside of the busway stations?

[#Metro]

that's good.
or dismember, bifurcate (break into 2), supersede, optimise, ephemerate .. looking for Roget's thesaurus.

Streamline!

[#Metro]

The advantages of a transfer-based network are detailed here.
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/11/connections-vs-complexity.html

[achiruel]

It can be useful for some people.  How do you straighten a loop?

I don't think we should call for such a route to be cut.

I agree.  198 does serve a purpose, despite it being a loop service.  Mainly due to the locations of the hospitals, the layout of West End/Highgate Hill and those damn hills.  See Simon, I do agree with you on occasions .

If above route is implemented, hospitals can be reached in other ways, e.g. 192 to Dutton Park Place Dr then 109 to PAH, or change at Cultural Centre, 196 then change to 105, and these will usually be quicker than 198 as you don't need to wait 45 minute for it to arrive.

[dwb]

Just a few comments:

385 is often over full, this needs to be amplified in some way
through CBD routes can help CCBS congestion by reducing unneeded city centre transfers

[#Metro]

I was at Bulimba tonight enjoying a nice late night dinner. 

I went to the bus stop to get 230 back to Mater Hill so I could interchange (shock horror, I changed buses took about 2 min for my connecting bus to turn up.)

HOURLY SERVICE AT 7 PM 

Are you kidding me!! 

[Gazza]

385 is often over full, this needs to be amplified in some way
through CBD routes can help CCBS congestion by reducing unneeded city centre transfers

Haha connect the 385 to the 200.

"That awkward moment when you accidentally design a maroon cityglider for $0"

[beauyboy]

I find it interesting that the Quest News artical had 4 comments at lunch time but now only has 3 comments.
I submitted a comment but it was not published.
:conf

Donald

[Gazza]

So did I.
Boourns!

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Calls for Bulimba glider rejected

Calls for Bulimba glider rejected
Tony Moore
February 2, 2012 - 3:00AM

A CityGlider high frequency bus service should have been introduced to Bulimba ahead of the Stones Corner-Paddington service announced this week, according to a public transport advocate.

Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said the so-called Maroon CityGlider added little to the existing bus network.

"The proposed CityGlider is nothing more than a virtual copy of the inner sections of the 385 BUZ and the 200 BUZ (routes)," he said.

"Both of these routes link together well at Cultural Centre, so it is difficult to see what a Maroon CityGlider brings to the table.

"It appears to have been drawn up without considering how it works with the existing network."

Mr Dow said a Bulimba CityGlider would have connected the suburb's restaurants and theatres.

However, Brisbane City Council public transport chairman Julian Simmonds said the Maroon CityGlider route serviced Stones Corner, which the 200 BUZ route did not.

Cr Simmonds said Bulimba had three CityCat stops and was well serviced by bus routes, including the full-time routes 230, 232 and 235, and peak period "rocket" buses, 231 and 236.

He said Rail Back on Track's plan for a Bulimba CityGlider was based on replacing the 230 route, meaning only those who live in the Riding Road part of the Bulimba peninsula would benefit.

"Anyone living in Thynne Road, which is half serviced by the 235, would miss out," he said.

Cr Simmonds defended the Maroon CityGlider and said traders at Stones Corner and Paddington told the council's planners commuters wanted to be able to use a single bus without having to change.

"This decision was also about future planning in these high-growth areas along Logan Road, not waiting until they were fully developed and then chasing our tail," he said.

Cr Simmonds said the council spoke with Translink before this week's announcement of new Maroon CityGlider.

A Translink spokesman yesterday said it would judge the success of the new CityGlider route against other demands on the public transport network.

He said during peak periods, the 384 and 385 service stopped at Paddington Central and Paddington every six minutes and the 174, 175 and 204 stopped every six minutes at Stones Corner at Old Cleveland/Logan Road.

High-frequency bus routes run every 10 minutes or less during peak an every 15 minutes in off-peak and weekends.

The Translink spokesman said "at least" 16 bus routes already serviced both Paddington and Stones Corner, including the high-frequency routes 222 (Carindale to Roma Street), 200 (Carindale to City) and 385 (The Gap to City).

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/calls-for-bulimba-glider-rejected-20120201-1qtbt.html

[ozbob]

The Translink spokesman said "at least" 16 bus routes already serviced both Paddington and Stones Corner, including the high-frequency routes 222 (Carindale to Roma Street), 200 (Carindale to City) and 385 (The Gap to City).

Not hard to work out what TransLink think of the 'Maroon City Glider' ...

Yes folks a political stunt by BCC ...

[achiruel]

I was at Bulimba tonight enjoying a nice late night dinner. 

I went to the bus stop to get 230 back to Mater Hill so I could interchange (shock horror, I changed buses took about 2 min for my connecting bus to turn up.)

HOURLY SERVICE AT 7 PM 

Are you kidding me!! 

Be thankful you weren't out on a Sunday night (and by night, I mean after 5pm), 90 minute service, last bus leaving terminus at 8:25.

[O_128]

"Anyone living in Thynne Road, which is half serviced by the 235, would miss out," he said.

This is the most laughable thing I have read, you won't BUZ the 230 as the 235 will mis out? WTF! That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.  Time to give miss sutton the local councillor for Bulimba a call I think.

[Mr X]

However, Brisbane City Council public transport chairman Julian Simmonds said the Maroon CityGlider route serviced Stones Corner, which the 200 BUZ route did not.

"STONES CORNER BUSWAY STATION" anyone?
BUZ 222?
209?

Cr Simmonds said Bulimba had three CityCat stops and was well serviced by bus routes, including the full-time routes 230, 232 and 235, and peak period "rocket" buses, 231 and 236.

Bottom of the barrel alright! How many people can walk to the citycat? 230/232/235 AREN'T frequent enough- that's the issue.
Peak hour rockets- they exist, so what? How does that help me after dinner at 9pm on a Sunday?

He said Rail Back on Track's plan for a Bulimba CityGlider was based on replacing the 230 route, meaning only those who live in the Riding Road part of the Bulimba peninsula would benefit.



"Anyone living in Thynne Road, which is half serviced by the 235, would miss out," he said.

Cr Simmonds defended the Maroon CityGlider and said traders at Stones Corner and Paddington told the council's planners commuters wanted to be able to use a single bus without having to change.

Paging TT to this thread!
No no no no no no no no no no no no no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Millions to save someone a 5min tranfer? SHAME.

[#Metro]

Brisbane City Council is demonstrating why they need to be stripped of network planning powers immediately before they waste any more funds on gross inefficiency and boutique bus routes that do not extend the range and area of high frequency services.

It is quite obvious:

1. Basic math and geometry which shows that trying to connect the city point to point requires exponentially more buses and is hugely wasteful because it uses more buses to carry fewer passengers each

2. Have no idea what 'mobility' actually means - extending the range where high frequency services operate. Think of it like building two Airports side by side - double the cost for half the benefit each.

TransLink needs to put its foot down HARD and exert it's authority as it is legislated to to under the TTA act and set boundaries and say NO. Any new proposals must be conditional on cutting waste and duplication in the network before being funded. So many examples of waste an inefficiency - 172, 203, etc etc.

Cr Simmonds defended the Maroon CityGlider and said traders at Stones Corner and Paddington told the council's planners commuters wanted to be able to use a single bus without having to change.

"This decision was also about future planning in these high-growth areas along Logan Road, not waiting until they were fully developed and then chasing our tail," he said.

There is a BRAND NEW $465 MILLION dollar busway there in addition the the Buranda Busway AND Buranda Rail station AND 204 174/175.

The busway at Stones Corner has capacity around 10 000 pphd or more, MORE than enough capacity - the place would have to look like Tokyo for that capacity to be maxed out.

Bulimba has disgusting public transport services - the 230 bus after about 6pm only permits EXIT from the suburb, you can't actually get into the suburb on a 230. The entire place is parked out - and I know because I was eating my pasta last night and watching it - the ferry is located very very far at one end of Oxford Street (The ferry argument doesn't wash either - BCC seems to have no issue in running a CityGlider to West End ferry terminal - why not Bulimba?)

The ferry is also useless for many because they need to connect to buses on the SE Busway - to get there they would have to get the Ferry to South Bank, Walk and and change. It is much easier to to the change on a bus at Mater Hill which is direct and only involved walking up an overbridge rather than through parkland late at night etc at South Bank.

[#Metro]

IF they want Logan Road to be serviced:

1. Combine routes 174 and 175 and 'top' up the route with $$ to form a BUZ
2. Re-route that 'legacy' route 203 to run down Logan Road.

This improvement would serve everyone, right down to Garden City and might even be cheaper because the bus is already there- it just needs topping up for the late night services and weekends.

[somebody]

Just a few comments:

385 is often over full, this needs to be amplified in some way
through CBD routes can help CCBS congestion by reducing unneeded city centre transfers

I'm afraid that the loading stats do not support this.  It's one of the few older BUZes not to carry 1 mil p.a.  Similarly with my experience of the route.  Used it last night, and around 6:40pm I'd estimate no more than 15 people on it leaving KGSBS O/B.

I'd suggest the 150 as more needing of an upgrade.  My suggestion is to break it up.

[ozbob]

Blog comments at Brisbanetimes --> here!

[#Metro]

http://www.humantransit.org/07box.html

Jarrett Walker works for MRCagney, same guys who did the SE busway for Bris.

07box: the new route problem

When the existing transit system doesn't seem to be meeting the needs of your organization or interest group, it's tempting to decide that you need a new route, or even a new network.  Service demands are often presented to transit agencies in the form of demands for a new route, and these are sometimes implemented even though they have a weakening effect on the whole transit network.  A good network is a set of services that are all designed to fit together and work together efficiently.  If you just add a route without rethinking the network, you're almost always reducing the overall efficiency of the network -- and thus its ability to get people where they're going.

If you currently have little or no service, then of course you can demand new service.  But if you already have a transit network and just don't find it useful for your needs, it's important to ask whether an investment in that network would help fix the problem, rather than inventing a new service that will duplicate the existing one.

Requests for new duplicative routes often arise where transit service is already running, but:

    the frequency or span of service is inadequate, or
    the existing service is hard to figure out, or
    the existing service doesn't stop exactly where you want, or
    the existing service is considered unacceptable in quality for a particular interest group's needs, or
    a connection (transfer) is required for the trip that you care about.

Let's look at each one.  At the end of this article, I'll also come back to some practical considerations.

Existing Service Requires a Connection (transfer)

Efficient, abundant transit networks often require connections, because you can't run direct service from everywhere to everywhere else.  This issue is discussed in Chapter 12 of Human Transit, but for a simple case study underlining the futility of new routes designed to avoid connections, see here.

Plan for Versatility

A very frequent transit line -- and one that can justify other improvements such as good amenities and transit lanes -- is designed for versatility.  It does not serve any particular identified interest group, but instead aims to be useful to many kinds of people for many kinds of purposes.  It does this by running straight, with a reasonable spacing of stops to ensure speed.  It also does this by forming part of an interconnected network.  Remember, it's not the route that's designed, but the network. A route may be designed as it is partly because of how it fits into the larger structure that enables people to get wherever they're going, not just to destinations along one route.

So if your mission is to serve a whole city or region, designing a transit route around any self-identified group of people is usually a bad idea.  Most successful and attractive transit seeks maximum versatility, by serving the most diverse possible range of demographics, trip purposes, and origin-destination pairs.  You can make exceptions where a single demographic group produces sufficiently massive ridership, as in some commute markets.  But in general, the way people self-organize and self-identify politically is a bad guide to how to meet their transit needs efficiently.  Everyone can draw the perfect transit line just for their interest group, but such proposals tell you nothing about what a good transit system would look like -- one that maximized everyone's ability to get where they're going.

So if your mission is to serve a whole city or region, designing a transit route around any self-identified group of people is usually a bad idea.  Most successful and attractive transit seeks maximum versatility, by serving the most diverse possible range of demographics, trip purposes, and origin-destination pairs.

Yes - Like Footy and Food!

[somebody]

How about 'prune'?

I agree that is a good term.  Even more importantly they should NOT create routes which they should know should never be created, like this Maroon Cityglider.  222 & 217 are other examples.

[#Metro]

He said Rail Back on Track's plan for a Bulimba CityGlider was based on replacing the 230 route, meaning only those who live in the Riding Road part of the Bulimba peninsula would benefit.



"Anyone living in Thynne Road, which is half serviced by the 235, would miss out," he said.

Do you know what is hilarious about this statement- BCC's proposal replicates the BUSWAY (HUNDREDS OF SERVICES) and not only that,
anyone living in Thynne Road would also miss out from service by this Maroon CityGlider.

Thynne Road should also have boosted services, but Riding Road is a higher priority IMHO because that serves the Oxford Street Precinct and Cinemas, while Thynne Road does not.

http://g.co/maps/hbrsw

You can see geographically that the catchment area along Riding Road is also larger than that for Thynne Road AND that it is outside the ferry terminals catchment areas. Anyway, I think RAILBOT called for two BUZzes to Bulimba in previous releases anyway.

[O_128]

If you apply bccs logic the 180 shouldn't have been buzzed as the other surrounding routes werent, are these people insane !!!!! Why does translink not put its foot down?

[#Metro]

With Credits to Gazza:
Interesting to note that both Tenneriffe and West End also have CityCat terminals and there appears to be no issue
with running CityGlider services to these terminals. So how is this any different to the Bulimba situation?

[ozbob]

Cr Simmons,  this is reality.

[#Metro]

Let's remember what the first CityGlider does- look how close the catchment areas are - even closer than that for the Bulimba case...
It is likely that any passengers on the Maroon CityGlider would be cannibalised patronage from other buses, rather than new trips or
diverted trips from cars. How's the citycycle program going?

[somebody]

Re: Bulimba, I'd still rather two BUZes, one via Hawthorne Rd and they other via Thynne Rd.  I have concerns that establishing a Riding Rd BUZ would mean this ideal can never be attained.

[STB]

Personally I would prefer both corridors to be serviced rather than one.  You can see on the maps that West End and the Balmoral region are fairly similar with two main corridors being West End currently serviced by two high frequency routes (Cityglider and the 199).  I think also that this gives the opportunity to see better connectivity at Morningside station and Bulimba and Apollo Rd ferries.

[#Metro]

Due to the river geography and geometry imposed by it, there are many cases where a two line solution is possible

St Lucia - BUZ 412  and (427/428/411)
Yeronga - Kadumba Street and Hyde Road
New Farm - BUZ 196 and 199 (Note the 230 could be extended into James Street and then straight down into the Brisbane Powerhouse turnaround, which would complete
coverage of that area).
Riverhills- Sumners Road and Horizon Drive

A Hawthorne road route is possible but is probably too close in terms of catchments. Riding Road is much further away.
The 230 is a stronger case / higher importance as it serves busy Oxford Street, the supermarket, playing fields and the Cinemas which have late night operations. It is also the part of that suburb which suffers the worst parking problems.

However, I also agree with STB- Thynne Road needs to be dealt with too eventually.
BOTH are much more important than Maroon CityGlider IMHO and actually extend frequency to people that do not have access to high frequency services
at current.

[Gazza]

Re: Bulimba, I'd still rather two BUZes, one via Hawthorne Rd and they other via Thynne Rd.  I have concerns that establishing a Riding Rd BUZ would mean this ideal can never be attained.

I can see what you mean, but lets look at it objectivley.

From the Bulimba roundabout to Wynnum Rd, it's 2.3km.

Its roughly at the cricket ovals that the roads start getting a decent distance apart...At miles St, the routes are about 500m apart.

However north of this, for 1km or so (Remember, these two roads are paralel for 2.3km), the two roads are only 200m apart, which means they would overlap heaps.

South of the cricket ovals, its about an 800m stretch of the two roads being 500m apart....And people in the southern part of this pocket would walk south to wynnum road instead.

It's more just annoying geography than anything, and it may well be a situation where you have to suck it up and accept that both options have disadvantages, and the network wont achieve perfection here.

[Gazza]

This lime green bit shows the area that gets missed by the '230 BUZ', so its fair expense to establish a 2nd buz to capture that last little bit of people.

Solutions could be to just make them suck it up and walk 600-800m to the stops, or accept that they might choose to hop in the car and park just off riding road....The small population of people needing to do this in the context of the suburb would have little impact.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[#Metro]

Cr Simmonds said Bulimba had three CityCat stops and was well serviced by bus routes, including the full-time routes 230, 232 and 235, and peak period "rocket" buses, 231 and 236.

Um, yeah and the BUSWAY has HUNDREDS of routes on it. Stones Corner has 222 and a busway on it? Enough said!

232 is a legacy route that competes with the ferry service http://translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/route-232
This bus route should be steam ironed. It is also an HOURLY service - you could probably walk or ride a bicycle to the CBD before this bus arrives.
So to passengers, this service virtually does not exist and is rather useless.

230 and 235 serve different parts of Bulimba- they are geographically separate catchments to the ferry obviously you can't be waiting at a CityCat stop, Thynne Road and Riding road simultaneously. That's
just not physically possible. Again, violation of physics... Again, terrible frequency on 230 and 235 plus 230 is exit only after 6:30 pm, so not attractive to catch.

231 and 236 do not exist except for an hour or so in the mornings. Of course, the whole purpose of a CityGlider or BUZ service is to provide ALL DAY FREQUENCY
and of course BCC knows this, so the reference to these routes is nothing but a distraction device.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/calls-for-bulimba-glider-rejected-20120201-1qtbt.html#ixzz1lBcmKwNz

[#Metro]

This lime green bit shows the area that gets missed by the '230 BUZ', so its fair expense to establish a 2nd buz to capture that last little bit of people.

Solutions could be to just make them suck it up and walk 600-800m to the stops, or accept that they might choose to hop in the car and park just off riding road....The small population of people needing to do this in the context of the suburb would have little impact.

Simple bicycle racks at bus stops would solve this nicely.

[STB]

The 'Grandfather' of the modern BT network as we know it today (also did some other regions post TL as a bit of trivia), and someone who I used to do some work with (myself and him created the current Bribie Island network), said that they did try and straighten out the 232 back in the late 90s, but the local residents (mostly elderly folk), got up in arms and were very vocal about maintaining the 232 route through Balmoral and out to Cannon Hill, so it remained.

[O_128]

The 'Grandfather' of the modern BT network as we know it today (also did some other regions post TL as a bit of trivia), and someone who I used to do some work with (myself and him created the current Bribie Island network), said that they did try and straighten out the 232 back in the late 90s, but the local residents (mostly elderly folk), got up in arms and were very vocal about maintaining the 232 route through Balmoral and out to Cannon Hill, so it remained.

well they will be gone by now so can it. Or at least send it just down hawthorne road and make it half hourly.

[SurfRail]

The 'Grandfather' of the modern BT network as we know it today (also did some other regions post TL as a bit of trivia), and someone who I used to do some work with (myself and him created the current Bribie Island network), said that they did try and straighten out the 232 back in the late 90s, but the local residents (mostly elderly folk), got up in arms and were very vocal about maintaining the 232 route through Balmoral and out to Cannon Hill, so it remained.

TransLink is a statutory authority so it should be largely immune to political crap like this, which is effectively tantamount to stealing from others (massive opportunity costs).  Unfortunately TTA is very much under the government's thumb, like other bodies.

[Mr X]

If you apply bccs logic the 180 shouldn't have been buzzed as the other surrounding routes werent, are these people insane !!!!! Why does translink not put its foot down?

If you use his logic, we shouldn't have a BUZ 196 because there are the 192 and the 198 non-BUZ'd
or the 111 because of the 160
or the 333 because of the 330/370
or the cityglider MK1 because of the 192