2012 Election, Transport Policies and the lack thereof

[mufreight]

Mr Newman has again this morning on ABC radio 612 given voters in this state nothing in relation to transport policies simply more smoke and mirrors and less comitment than a weak jelly.
Surely the voters of this state deserve something better than trust us we will make things better, seemto have herd the same speil from the current mob and voters know that they can not be trusted.

[Stillwater]

What's surprising is the absolute gall, which assumes that the people's hatred and distrust of the ALP will be so palpable so as to get the LNP across the line with just the whiff of a policy and, as you say Mufreight, a 'trust us and she'll be apples' attitude.  That's Bjelke-Petersen-esque in its cunning naivety.  In 'Animal Farm', the pigs rose on two legs.  We are expected to grovel on all fours to an elite class led by Campbell Newman in his policy-free zone.

[somebody]

The Our Say website may help with this.  CRR is currently ranking #2, and if it retains top three Campbell Newman will be asked to give an answer in a way I think he will have trouble trying not to answer.

That's Bjelke-Petersen-esque in its cunning naivety. 

Hey, based on his record it seems he was politically very savvy.

[Mr X]

I think he will just BS his way through.
Anna Bligh got past the daylight saving question by bullshitting that she supports it for the south east and knows most queenslanders will support it and the majority in the south east support it but "governing for the whole state" means "governing for north queenslanders" who do not support it.  

I expect a lot of fresh apples to be flying that way this round.

[somebody]

Anna Bligh got past the daylight saving question by bullshitting that she supports it for the south east and knows most queenslanders will support it and the majority in the south east support it but "governing for the whole state" means "governing for north queenslanders" who do not support it.  

Answer = no.

[mufreight]

It has become more than obvious that the LNP and Mr Newman have no transport policy, repeated attempts by a member over the last five months for a meeting with Mr Newman to discuss with him matters relating to transport have been fruitless with LNP staffers and advisers blocking any approach.
To this time Mr Newman has not indicated any credible policy that would be funded by a government led by himself but rather every transport matter that he has alluded to such as the Bruce Highway upgrade is reliant on Federal Government funding.
Neither Mr Newman nor his Transport Shadow Minister, Mr Emerson has made any comment in respect of the annual 15% fare hikes for public transort which can only be construed as indicating that if in Government they would continue with this same unjustified extortion which can only force those commuters who have alternative means of transport avaliable to them, such as private cars, to abandon public transport, this effectively not only reduces the fare box revenues but increases the effective costs of operation of public transport per passenger kilometre rather than reduce these costs.
Other impacts as a consequence of these unjustified fare increases are increased congestuin on n already overtaxed road system, increased social costs in the form of increased numbers of motor vehicle accidents and the consequent losses of life and increases in injuries which places further load and costs on an already struggling health system.  Additional and higher costs of providing and maintaining the road infrastructure needed not only for passengers but freight and the increased costs of goods as a consequence of road congestion.
Mr Newman has made much of his intention to improve the financial standin of the State by reducing waste yet he proposes a band -aid solution to the congestion on the rail system that to be effective will need additional expenditure that will bring the cost of this band-aid solution to half or possibly more of the cost of Cross River Rail to deliver about a sixth of the benefit in terms of train paths.
The LNP Transport spokesperson  Mr Emerson is proposing the duplication of platforms at both Southbank and South Brisbane stations and resignaling the line accross the Merivale Street Rail Bridge into Roma Street to increase the numbers of avaliable train paths and render it not necessicary to construct the presently proposed Cross River Rail project.
The costings for this on the cheap proposal, which is at best a stop gap at worst an ill-concevied waste of taxpayers money, has overlooked a number of crucial points, there is no provision to increase the numbers of possible train paths between Roma Street and Bowen Hills through the CBD, this section which will remain the bottle neck dictating the number of services that can be operated.
No consideration has been give to the need to retrofit every train set with APT to enable the safe operation of trains on the close headways needed to atain the train paths proposed over this section of the line.  At the present time only some of the 100 series of IMU sets, the 160 series IMU sets and the ICE sets are fitted with APT and this equipment would need to be upgraded to enable the operation of these sets to meet the requirements of Mr Emersons proposal.
Having expended all the funds needed to bring this band aid solution to operation would give a cost to taxpayers of almost half of the presently overinflated cost of constructing CRR for an increase in rail capacity across the Merivale Street bridge and through the CBD of only three trains per hour as against a potential 20 trains per hour through the CRR with the additional benefits of stations at Woolloongabba and Gardens Point and provide a presently not existing level of redundancy to enable services to continue to operate when system failures occour, definitely not a cost effective solution but an ill-conceived waste of public funds.
The main Northern rail line, again the silence has been deafening, at the present time 44% of passenger services north of Cabolture are being operated by bus with journey times to Nambour up to 40 minutes longer than the same journey by train.  Freight services to the north of the state are presently limited in train lengths and restricted by the numbers of available train paths thus forceing increasing freight traffic on to the sub standard and over stressed Bruce Highway, this freight traffic is predicted to increase by between 7% and 9% annually with a move to operate even larger trucks on this highway, B triples and A double combinations a recipe for an increased road toll and higher road maintenance costs.
By completing the realignment and duplication between Beerburrum and Landsborough and the Mooloolah to Palmwoods section the transit timesfor commuter services to and from Nambor could be reduced by better than 15 minutes.  By also either extending the crossing loops at Cooroy and Pomona  to cater for trains of up to 1800m in length, or possibly duplicating the section between Cooroy and Pomona and a further crossing loop between Gympie North and Maryborough the operation of 1800 m freight services between Brisbane and Rockhampton would be possibe with transit time shortened even further and the capacity to move double the tonnage to and from the north on half the number of trains lowering the cost of freight to the north of the state in the region of 15% to 18% making rail more completive with road and reducing the amount of freight currently being carried by road on the Bruce Highway which would in turn reduce accidents and lower the costs of maintaining the highway.

[mufreight]

I think he will just BS his way through.
Anna Bligh got past the daylight saving question by bullshitting that she supports it for the south east and knows most queenslanders will support it and the majority in the south east support it but "governing for the whole state" means "governing for north queenslanders" who do not support it.  

I expect a lot of fresh apples to be flying that way this round.

I expect ther will be more pork and what eminates from the rear end of the bull than apples in the air flying around, remember with the majority of ?politicians? the mouth and the rectum are interchangeable with both used to dispense effluent to the masses.

[petey3801]

At the present time only some of the 100 series of IMU sets, the 160 series IMU sets and the ICE sets are fitted with APT

It's actually worse than this.. Only the ICE are fitted with operational ATP at this stage, the IMU100s are (very) slowly being retrofitted with the components to enable ATP (none have it operational at this stage) and none of the 160/260s have ATP (more than likely have some components fitted, but not operational).

[somebody]

At the present time only some of the 100 series of IMU sets, the 160 series IMU sets and the ICE sets are fitted with APT

It's actually worse than this.. Only the ICE are fitted with operational ATP at this stage, the IMU100s are (very) slowly being retrofitted with the components to enable ATP (none have it operational at this stage) and none of the 160/260s have ATP (more than likely have some components fitted, but not operational).

If that is true then the alleged requirement for ATP when going north of Caboolture is a load of manure.

[petey3801]

At the present time only some of the 100 series of IMU sets, the 160 series IMU sets and the ICE sets are fitted with APT

It's actually worse than this.. Only the ICE are fitted with operational ATP at this stage, the IMU100s are (very) slowly being retrofitted with the components to enable ATP (none have it operational at this stage) and none of the 160/260s have ATP (more than likely have some components fitted, but not operational).

If that is true then the alleged requirement for ATP when going north of Caboolture is a load of manure.

They are currently able to travel to Nambour without ATP*, but no further (noone that i've talked to really knows the reason behind this, but I imagine it's simply money/labour problems)

Edit: *Without a second driver, that is...

[mufreight]

Seems that others have concerns about Mr Newman's lack of policies and his ongoing refusal to meet with members of the public to discuss them as this bloog comment from the Brisbane Times yesterday would indicate.

A friend has over a period of some months sought a meeting with Mr Newman over transport issues, particularly relating to public transport policies. After months of obfuscation, smoke and mirrors and flim flam still no meeting with Mr Newman, and to this time no credible statements or policy relating to transport from either Mr Newman or the LNP, one can only conclude from the contempt with which my friend has been treated that the LNP has no credible policies for public transport, or that the LNP party machine does not want any alternatives presented to Mr Newman that might show up the levels of impracticality of any last minute policy proposals they might possibly present. As LABOR under Bligh has obviously proven its incompetence at running the state and the LNP controlled by Mr Newman in the roll of an aspiring Dictator without policy expects that he will be elected without credible policies that leaves no choice but to support independent candidates in the hope that sufficent independent candidates will be elected to hold the balance of power and bring a measure of responsible accountability to Government in this state, something that has been sadly missing since the abolution of the Upper House.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/attacks-intensify-in-queensland-poll-leadup-20120122-1qbx3.html#ixzz1kJkXTRgV

Life gets interesting and it is now as far as public transport is concerned a case of voting for the lesser of two evils,

[Gazza]

The thing that is bugging me about the LNP PT policies is they seem as if they are what the average LNP member would like to see done, and seem as if they were drawn up from an infrequent users observations of what would improve PT (As many MPs/prospective MPs are)

That's why we have their two major policies to date being 9 then free, and park and ride in the inner 10km, both to "encourage use".

They don't seem to have any sort of long term vision to them. Nothing that gets the heart pumping.
At least in NSW and Vic they came into power with a few good ideas that were genuinely better than the opposition.

Ok, so we implement the two policies above....Then what? Do we magically have a good PT system? No!
What will achieve that, and what has to be done eventually? Everything else!

This matter of "everything else"....The infrastructure improvements, better timetabling, higher frequency, better passenger experience, better efficiency etc is what I want to  know how they will achieve, because their current two policies don't address that.

The #1 line I'm going to use if I get any more media calls is that the best  way to  improve PT and get more people on it, is to make it MORE USEFUL.
"More useful" I think sums up everything we are currently fighting for.

Gavin Seipelt

[somebody]

I'd dispute that the Libs policies re: PT were better than Labour heading in to the last election in NSW.

Although it seems that the Libs are more likely to be better managers overall, which may compensate for their awful policies.

[mufreight]

I'd dispute that the Libs policies re: PT were better than Labour heading in to the last election in NSW.

Although it seems that the Libs are more likely to be better managers overall, which may compensate for their awful policies.

At least in both Vic and NSW the LNP had policies going into their elections, Nr Newman, seems the only policy is to have no policy.   

[Golliwog]

That's kind of my problem at the moment. Locally, I have talked to jy local LNP candidate, and I could vote for him as I agree with what he says for the area. However, its Newman and their lack of decent policies on the big things that I can't stand at the moment. Also, claiming any and all criticism of Newman and his time at the BCC is a personal attack is BS. They weren't revealing dirty laundry or anything, just pointing out his track record for those who don't live in brissie.

[mufreight]

Ok Mr Newman the election date has been set, now time for you to put up or get out,

1. what are the LNP policies on transport?
2. what are the LNP policies on public transport?
3. will the LNP build Cross River Rail if it is funded by Infrastructure Australia?

Mr Newmans answers or lack of answers now directly relate to votes.

[somebody]

Ok Mr Newman the election date has been set, now time for you to put up or get out,

1. what are the LNP policies on transport?
2. what are the LNP policies on public transport?
3. will the LNP build Cross River Rail if it is funded by Infrastructure Australia?

Mr Newmans answers or lack of answers now directly relate to votes.

When are we likely to hear back from IA?  Before or after the election?

[ozbob]

IA meets in February, so I assume prior to the election.

[mufreight]

Last word is that the recomendation by IA will be released mid February

[Stillwater]

Oh goody.  More slop for the political stew.

[mufreight]

Sorry Still but did you mean stew or perhaps spew.   

[mufreight]

Just listened to Mr No Policies Newman speiling on about getting Queensland back on track, seems however he has no intention of providing any of the infrastructure or fare structure reforms needed to do so.
Seems Stillwater that we were both wrong, it was neither slop for the stew or spew simply more  B/sh?t.

[Stillwater]

The LNP has made a virtue of 'stopping government waste'.  It is one of those glib lines tossed out at election time to capitalise on community sentiment while disguising a lack of policy.  All LNP candidates have signed a stunt 'pledge' to eliminate government waste.

Presented with stark evidence of government waste – the $291,000 bill Mr and Mrs Queensland have to pay each and every year for the hire of temporary plywood platforms at seven locations on the Sunshine Coast Line – the party refuses to offer its cost-effective solution for fixing the line's hopeless inadequacy.  Local LNP members have said the duplication of the SCL is a top priority.  Last election, they proposed building part of the CAMCOS rail corridor between Caloundra and Maroochydore as a stand-alone project not connected to the mainline at Beerwah.  That was a stunt also.  Those members have repudiated their promise to devise a strategy for the SCL and other transport corridors serving the region.

Crucial temporary platform stations lie within Andrew Powell's seat of Glass House, which he holds for the LNP with a margin of 5.8 percent.  The party expects a further swing of at least another 4 percent to it in the forthcoming election, made all the more probable since Mr Powell's Labor opponent is a little known 19-year-old university student, Ryan Moore.

For the people of the Sunshine Coast, the irony is that loyal LNP supporters on March 24 will be taken for granted, and whatever funds are available for transport infrastructure will be promised to more marginal electorates under an LNP government.  The cuckoo's egg Labor has laid in the LNP nest is the promise to support the Gold Coast Commonwealth Games with significant new transport infrastructure.  The LNP has undertaken to provide the games' infrastructure in government.

An LNP government will build more transport infrastructure serving the Gold Coast and Labor's seats there while ignoring its own constituency on the Sunshine Coast.  Will people wake up to the fact that the LNP is playing Sunshine Coast residents for fools when it comes to the issue of essential transport infrastructure for their region?

[Stillwater]

Good policy makes good politics.

[#Metro]

The LNP has made a virtue of 'stopping government waste'.

I agree, let's cut waste- cut legacy routes, duplication and waste on the bus system!

[Stillwater]

   It can't be a piecemeal exercise.  It must be across the board so the knock-on impacts are known and a more efficient PT network evolves while meeting people's travel needs.

[mufreight]

And what are Labor's PT policey's?

CRR, if IA cough up the funds, with only weeks to an election its highly likely both parties will push the other to commit to building it. Labor for sure, LNP I suspect will have to say yes. What neither party will commit to especially Labor is how the propose to pay for Qld's share, but spent over a few years I see that as minor issue, IF IA pay the requested.

NCL Dup/relaignment, Labor's policey is so far in the future is it really a policey? Promising to build something in 2031 is not a policey. It just means we believe it is required by then and put it in the 25 year plan, easily subject to change as we have seen.

A statement "we will reduce govt waste" is a motherhood statement at best.

But likewise if Anna had a policey to complete the NCL works to Nambour, build the Sunny Coast line and build the CRR as well as dupilcate Cleveland and finish the GC line. Does this mean we should vote for this? Funding is just as important as the project. Potentially this could all be done, but how? For me they can say what they like, but one thing I do like about american politics is that going to an election with an unfunded policey will equal failure as otherside will usually attack the funding or lack of. If they plan for it to happen over next 5 years, I want to see how it will be paid for.

@MU freight, agree on longer freights, but not sure why you are so fixed on 1800m. Its not a size compared to existing services, ie you cannot merge two standard freights to make a 1800m train. Also the SG trains entering Brisbane are only 1500m, so you cannot even load from one to the other at AR and there maybe signal issues on the duplicated track Gladstone - Rocky? The passing loops will be too short to stow the train in the coal areas, such as Raglan. Stick with 1500m or what ever a coalie is.

regards
Shane

Building the loops to 1800m give a margin of safety and allows all trains to enter the loops at a slightly higher speed while also allowing for the eventual operation of longer trains.
On double track train length makes little difference to the operation of the signalling unless the train such as a passenger service would cause an overlap on the signal secton block if stopped either at another signal or a station which would prevent the following section being cleared for the next movement.

[Stillwater]

Just imagine ... Anthony Albanese flies into town with a large blow-up photo of a cheque for CRR and calls a media conference with Anna Bligh to announce federal funding and hands over the cheque.  Will Mr Newman then say:

"The LNP doesn't want this money.  Labor's just tried to buy this election with eight billion pieces of silver, well we're not having a bar of it.  We have our own plans for fixing SEQ's transport problems created by Labor and we will be announcing those in due course.  They will cost a lot less than $8 billion.  The taxpayer will be better off.  

"I have this message for Anthony Albanese, soon after I am elected Premier of this state, I will call a meeting with him to outline the LNP's transport plans for SEQ.  We want to build that second range crossing around Toowoomba, we will fix those dangerous level crossings and the LNP wants to give a first-class city like the Gold Coast the crucial transport infrastructure it needs.  Yes, we want money from the federal government for vital transport infrastructure, but only the LNP will do that in a responsible way."

It doesn't really hold water does it?  The media would hound Mr Newman with the question: "If you won't take this federal money for CRR, when can we expect construction to start and finish on your alternative plans, and ... by the way, just what are your plans, Mr Newman?"

Does even Mr Newman know?

Maybe Anna Bligh was smart in having a long election campaign.  'Windbag' Newman might expend all his puff before the election in held.  Meanwhile, as Mr Newman portrays himself as 'Can Do', the new flood crisis and Ms Bligh's work before the TV cameras keeps Campbell in the background and shows the Premier as 'Ms Is-Doing'.

[somebody]

1800m trains are standard across the Nullabor and I believe can be run on Syd-Mel also.  Mel-Adl is a problem for 1800m IIRC.  Possibly it is on ARTC's to do list.  Not sure about Parkes-Cootamundra, that might already be upgraded to 1800m standards.

[mufreight]

Am of the understanding that trains up to 1800m length are currently being operated Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane.

[mufreight]

I think if money is to be spent, lets do it right and build passing lanes. Even if not well timed, with right system drivers are advised a suitable speed that they maintain to enable a rolling cross, saves time and fuel. Running up to a loop 20km away at 60km/hr non-stop must be better than approaching at 100 just to have to stop.

regards

No longer working on the job but it was the case that frequently a layover to cross another train or possibly even two would frequently be scheduled into the timetable to allow crib breaks for crew.

[somebody]

Am of the understanding that trains up to 1800m length are currently being operated Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane.

I'm pretty sure passing loops north of Telarah (Maitland) are generally useful for trains up to 1500m.  Not sure if there are plans to change this either.