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Author Topic: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.  (Read 27161 times)

Offline ozbob

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Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« on: January 01, 2012, 09:09:05 AM »
The new fare structure comes into effect 2nd January 2012 --> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/fares/changes-to-fares-and-ticketing-in-2012

Paper single tickets are very expensive, all public transport users are much better off using a go card.

Once a go card user has completed 10 paid journeys [ 9 paid journeys from 25th June 2012 ] in  Monday to Sunday, travel is free.  So if a user can do a lot more journeys early in the week, the free journey threshold can be reached and long haul commuting could be free.  For example using public transport at lunch time can mean extra journeys are accumulated.

If you travel say Oxley to the CBD (zone 3) conduct some business in the CBD and then touch back on within the hour, the return trip CBD to Oxley is free (provided completed within 5 hours of originally touching on on inbound journey).

Off peak travel, touching on between 9am and 3.30pm, and between 7pm and 2am, there is a 20% discount.

Transfer rules:

You are allowed a maximum of three transfers on a
journey, therefore you can have a maximum of 4 trips
(different sequential modes) in one journey, providing you
meet these conditions (from the go card user guide):
• you should continue your journey by touching on within 60
minutes of touching off at the end of your previous trip
• your journey may consist of a total of three transfers
• the final trip of your journey must commence within three and a
half hours of the start of your first trip
• your whole journey must end within a five hour period from start to
finish to be considered a single journey
• if you are transferring between QR services and you don’t leave
the station or platform between transfers you only need to touch on
at the start of your journey and touch off to end your journey – you
don’t need to touch off between QR services unless you leave the
station or platform for any reason.

http://translink.com.au/resources/tickets-and-fares/go-card/111001-user-guide.pdf page 16

What does journey capping mean?

From the 2nd January 2012 travel free after 10 go card
paid journeys in a week (Mon-Sun) for all users.
There is a daily journey go card cap on fares for Seniors,
Pension Concession Card holders and Repatriation Health
Care Card (Gold Card) holders which means after two
journeys are made in one day all additional journeys are
free (on or after 17th January 2011).

Remember a journey can be up to 4 trips on buses, trains
and ferries in a row over a maximum 5 hour period, with
no more than a 1 hour break between each trip. A trip on a
particular mode begins when you touch on, and ends
when you touch off. So, if more than 1 hour elapses after
your last touch off, the journey is counted as finished, and
your next touch on will initiate a new journey.

More useful tips --> The SMART Go Card User Guide
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 03:23:11 AM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2012, 10:41:53 AM »
Some examples.

Consider a person who catches the train each week day from Caboolture to Central, and return (zone 8)

The fare is peak $7.15 x 2 = $14.30 each day.

If they did two one zone journeys during the day (somewhere between Mon - Thur), cost off peak is $2.44 x 2 =$4.88.

So for Friday, they have already reached the 10 journey cap so travel that day would be free.  So they have reduced their fare outlay by $9.42, or reduction of 13%.

As total fares $14.30 x 4, + $4.88 = $62.08 fare cost for the week, but also they can now travel free unrestricted on Friday and over the weekend if they choose too.

Using paper single tickets would cost $104  ( $10.40 x 10) fare cost for the week.  With no free travel options for the weekend ...

Similar examples can be done for other zones.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 11:06:48 AM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2012, 11:15:08 AM »
A typical university student, an ' earner learner '.

This student who lives at Eight Mile plains (zone 4) has a lecture 8am - 9am Monday morning (groan ...) at QUT Kelvin Grove , then works part-time at West End from 11am to 3pm.  Then comes back to QUT Kelvin Grove for a practical class 5pm to 8pm.

Student achieves 4 paid journeys on the Monday.

Tuesday has a similar profile, another 4 paid journeys.

On Wednesday, student doesn't work part-time, but has classes - lectures and practicals from 10am through to 3pm.  On returning home student has already achieved 10 paid journeys.

All travel now on rest of Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday is now free.

Thursday more classes, no work.  

Student has no classes on Friday but goes to work for a long shift.

Weekend is for social / study  ;).  Free travel as well ...

Cost for the typical week zone 4 concession $2.39 x 6 = $14.34, zone 2 concession off peak 1.44 x 4 = $5.76, so total for week is $20.10.  Student can travel anywhere eg. Gold Cost, for free after 10th paid journey completed Wednesday.  Not a bad deal, free travel for 4 days plus ...
« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 12:02:50 PM by ozbob »
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Offline Mr X

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2012, 11:54:12 AM »
How your fare can be cheaper in 2012 than in 2011- Go Card for Smart People.

Say Mrs Mack lives in West End, Zone 2, and works in Brisbane CBD.
In 2011, Mrs Mack used her Go Card to take the 199 to and fro work, 9-5pm, with a midday 1hr lunch break in the city. Being a normal commuter, she pays $3.11 x 10 trips = $31.10 a week in PT travel.

In 2012, the prices of tickets increased and Mrs Mack found her journey to the CBD now costs $3.58. Her employer is unable to change her working hours to get the advantage of off peak fares.
So Mrs Mack takes a very quick lunchtime bus ride. Because her office is located in Adelaide St, Mrs Mack has access to certain all-stop bus routes with more than one stop in the city. She takes any of the buses from one stop at the top of Adelaide St to somewhere closer to KGS, where she can walk through Albert St to Queen St.
This costs her $2.44 and she decides to do this daily until it's free. Each day, she thus uses three trips.
That fare is not only cheaper than her 2012 fare home (being an offpeak zone 1), but it is also a cheaper way of reaching 10 trips than if she was still travelling under 2011 go card rules and fares.
However she realises that her travel is not any cheaper than it was in 2011, but can make further changes by doing additional offpeak journeys earlier in the week at times she would have otherwise used a car. Eg. by taking the bus to the shops on a Monday night after work after 7pm, when shops are quieter, she can get off peak one zone fares which is cheaper to pay than a two zone peak go card fare. It doesn't even have to be the shops, you can simply take 5-10mins out of your day (might annoy some fellow pax) and take your local bus just one stop down the road and walk back. You'll also gain exercise etc. and you have a financial benefit for doing it! You don't have to do it every day, either. (This is only useful if you know you will use 10 trips in a week!).

So she does 4 journeys on a monday, 4 on a tuesday, and after her lunch journey on a wednesday, the rest of the travel is free.
She pays 5 x peak 2 zone go card fare and 5 x off peak 1 zone fare (trips in the city and her additional money saving trips in her suburb). = 5 x 3.58 + 5 * 2.44
= 17.9 + 12.2 = $30.10. (Yes she is only saving $1 on 2011, but is saving $5.70 on if she had done nothing to save money on fares. She is also gaining the opportunity of more exercise etc. and she is also not paying more like other 9-5 weekday commuters!).

The savings get bigger the further out of Brisbane you live. This can be applied to anyone. Be creative. The more 1 zone off peak fares you can do earlier in the week, the better.
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Offline Arnz

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2012, 11:59:05 AM »
Don't forget those in the outer areas, such as Ipswich, Caboolture, Beenleigh, etc can take a one zone trip to the shops/restaurant after work to have/pick up dinner.  That's 3 or more trips in the one day.  For example, let's say the trip after work is done twice in a week on Monday and Wednesday.  That leaves Friday, Saturday and Sunday free after the 10th trip is done on a Thursday.
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Offline Mr X

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2012, 12:06:43 PM »
Exactly!
Let's say Mrs Mack lives in Caboolture (zone 8 ). In 2011 she paid 10 x 6.21 = $62.10 a week. She now has to pay $71.15 a week on PT fares!
Using the "use the bus as many times for short trips early in the week as much as possible" method:
5 x 7.15 (8 zone peak) + 5 x 2.44 = $35.75 + $12.20 = $47.95. That's right, she saves $14.15 on 2011 fares and $23.55 on 2012 fares (doing nothing).
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The opinions contained within my posts and profile are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of the greater Rail Back on Track community.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2012, 12:10:24 PM »
Sent to all outlets:

1st January 2012

Using the new go card fare structure optimally

Greetings,

The new fare structure kicks in tomorrow.  Many are not happy with the 15% fare increase.

We have set out to help the public by showing how they can use their go cards optimally.

See -->  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7374.0   It is not a bad deal at all.

One thing is clear though, it is time for ALL public transport users to give paper single tickets the flick, they are horrendously expensive compared to the go card,  and there are personal and community wide advantages to using a go card eg. much quick bus loading times.

Happy New Year!

Best wishes
Robert

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Offline Derwan

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 10:21:35 AM »
Don't forget those in the outer areas, such as Ipswich, Caboolture, Beenleigh, etc can take a one zone trip to the shops/restaurant after work to have/pick up dinner.  That's 3 or more trips in the one day.  For example, let's say the trip after work is done twice in a week on Monday and Wednesday.  That leaves Friday, Saturday and Sunday free after the 10th trip is done on a Thursday.

As long as that trip after work isn't within an hour of their usual trip home - otherwise it's just a continuation.  :)

A lunch time trip (even one block) might be a popular choice for those who travel a long way to work.
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Antoniolino

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 10:34:43 AM »
I think its a the wrong political move for your lobby group/ forum to advocate the Go Card.  It gives translink more ammo to further muddy the waters. You have some media traction, you need to be smarter. The core issue remains.  Brisbane public transport is half as good but twice as expensive as every other Australian capital.

I can see your excitement on the possibilities of milking the new Go card 'go free' measures, but what is really going on here bob?  The go free measures were a last minute panic move by a lazy and visionless State government (the Opposition is no better though).  If the majority of people actually do the measures you advocate, taking unnecessary journeys at lunchtime etc, and start to make significant saving on expensive routes such as the GC, the go-free measures will be either shut down, or slapped with a bunch of new complicated rules.  The fact that these loopholes exist shows how this hasn't been thought through.

Also, you don't seem to have considered the issues from the perspective of poor people.  All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.

Also, other cities have the equivalent of a Gocard, but still have dailies/ weeklies/ monthlies, either on the card or as separate tickets.

Brisbane public transport, ignoring any convoluted measures to scam or milk loopholes, remains by far the most expensive in Australia, and probably he world.  If you are unemployed or on low wages, its too expensive to catch, full stop.

Keep your eye on the real issues bob.

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 10:38:48 AM »
::)

Go Card is awesome.  I want 100% Go Card use in the future.

Offline Mr X

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 11:15:46 AM »
You must be really, really slow if you can't work out how to top up a go card. Paper ticketing is OLD, INEFFICIENT TECHNOLOGY.
I think this one needs no further comment.
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Antoniolino

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 11:18:24 AM »
you haven't addressed one single issue that I've raised.  This is a discussion forum right?  I am of the firm belief that anyone who thinks that Brisbane public transport pricing is good, has never spent any decent period of time in any other city.

Also, have you read the comments in response to the recent articles on the fare increases in the Brisbane Times or Courier Mail?  I suggest you do.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 11:20:40 AM »
Quote
All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.
OK I'll address a point. Go Card can be topped up with $5 as a minimum anyway , which is comparable to the cheapest one way paper ticket available ($4.50)
So there's no difference in affordiblity.

The issue is the fare levels, not the ticketing media.

Antoniolino

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2012, 11:23:09 AM »
You must be really, really slow if you can't work out how to top up a go card. Paper ticketing is OLD, INEFFICIENT TECHNOLOGY.
I think this one needs no further comment.

I'm not saying bring back paper tickets.  Read my post.  I'm saying bring in concessions for disadvantaged people, and incorporate dailies, weekly, and monthly fares within the Go Card structure.  Other cities do it, it ain't rocket science.  The go card as it is is inflexible.

And the core issue remains regardless of tangental debates about the intricacies of the Go Card:  Brisbane's public transport is not as good as other Australian cities, and its far more expensive.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2012, 11:28:45 AM »
Quote
Brisbane public transport is half as good but twice as expensive as every other Australian capital.


It's not 'twice as expensive as every other Aus capital' at all. Now who is the one muddying the waters?

Quote
Also, you don't seem to have considered the issues from the perspective of poor people.  All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.

Also, other cities have the equivalent of a Gocard, but still have dailies/ weeklies/ monthlies, either on the card or as separate tickets.
If poor people cant afford to buy in bulk then how does a periodical, which must be bought up front, benefit them?

Perth has no periodicals.

We already have a weekly. The 10 journey cap is exactly that, it caps the amount you can pay in one week.

Quote
I'm saying bring in concessions for disadvantaged people,
Which other groups should be covered? (Not being smart, just a question)
Quote
The fact that these loopholes exist shows how this hasn't been thought through.
I think its a limitation of the software modules the system runs, which is why its a bit 'odd' in terms of how it is calculated. And I do agree it hasn't been thought through and they will lose revenue.

If it were up to me, free travel would be on a daily basis after two journeys, and only up to to the zones you had used...So say you did a journey to work and back of 3 zones, and then did a 3rd trip of four zones, then that 3rd trip would not be 100% free, it would only be free for the first three zones.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2012, 11:29:05 AM »
I think its a the wrong political move for your lobby group/ forum to advocate the Go Card.  It gives translink more ammo to further muddy the waters. You have some media traction, you need to be smarter. The core issue remains.  Brisbane public transport is half as good but twice as expensive as every other Australian capital.

I can see your excitement on the possibilities of milking the new Go card 'go free' measures, but what is really going on here bob?  The go free measures were a last minute panic move by a lazy and visionless State government (the Opposition is no better though).  If the majority of people actually do the measures you advocate, taking unnecessary journeys at lunchtime etc, and start to make significant saving on expensive routes such as the GC, the go-free measures will be either shut down, or slapped with a bunch of new complicated rules.  The fact that these loopholes exist shows how this hasn't been thought through.

Also, you don't seem to have considered the issues from the perspective of poor people.  All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.

Also, other cities have the equivalent of a Gocard, but still have dailies/ weeklies/ monthlies, either on the card or as separate tickets.

Brisbane public transport, ignoring any convoluted measures to scam or milk loopholes, remains by far the most expensive in Australia, and probably he world.  If you are unemployed or on low wages, its too expensive to catch, full stop.

Keep your eye on the real issues bob.

Welcome!  Thanks for your comments.

This is the reality.

We have pushed relentlessly for better fare options for years.  At the moment the Government and Opposition won't shift.  So we are helping folks use the present structure to their maximum advantage.

Rather than whine away lets use what we have got to the maximum advantage whilst working for better options.

Cheers!
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Antoniolino

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2012, 11:30:19 AM »
Quote
All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.
OK I'll address a point. Go Card can be topped up with $5 as a minimum anyway , which is comparable to the cheapest one way paper ticket available ($4.50)
So there's no difference in affordiblity.

The issue is the fare levels, not the ticketing media.

You're right that is the issue.

On the $5 recharge, thats fair enough.  But disadvantaged people generally want to get on a bus or train, buy a ticket and take a trip.  My Mum and Dad were visiting recently from Victoria, they are 70.  They decided to go to the museum.  Dad asked for 2 return tickets to Southbank.  He was told, to his total amazement, that he couldn't buy a return ticket.  The 4 senior fares he bought to and from his designation were triple what he would have paid in Melbourne for similar journey.  Just one example of the inflexibility.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2012, 11:31:47 AM »
The reason we are advocating people use the go card presently, is because the paper tickets are a gross rip-off.

We actually care for the community ...

Give the go card a go, it is working a lot better now.

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Offline Mr X

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2012, 11:33:20 AM »
I should leave a lot of the comments about the direction of RBOT for Bob to make as it is his forum, but I'll make some other comments if you so desire.

Quote
Also, other cities have the equivalent of a Gocard, but still have dailies/ weeklies/ monthlies, either on the card or as separate tickets.

Ok the loss of weeklies and dailies is a big disappointment, especially when you're travelling with children.
For weeklies, the 9-5 commuter will in effect gain this option back if they travel on weekends as all such travel will be free, likewise if they make any other trips during the week on top of travelling twice a day every weekday, then yes their fares in the latter part of the week will also be free. This is also cheaper than paper tickets, so in effect if you don't own a go card and use paper, by switching over and travelling 9-5 + weekend, you'll be making a big (!) saving and it is the same as a weekly.

Quote
scam or milk loopholes
Quote
If the majority of people actually do the measures you advocate, taking unnecessary journeys at lunchtime etc, and start to make significant saving on expensive routes such as the GC, the go-free measures will be either shut down, or slapped with a bunch of new complicated rules.  The fact that these loopholes exist shows how this hasn't been thought through.
I don't consider my suggestions of using the bus in the middle of the day or in the avo 1hr after touching off to be a "scam" or cheating the system in any way. You're making legitimate trips that support the provision of local bus services.

If Translink wish to shut down that measure (can't see how they would!) then that is their discretion. I am merely pointing out how the ordinary pax can save some cash if they are willing to take some time out of the day to make an extra trip somewhere they wouldn't normally take. I expect the cost-benefit of this for a lot of commuters wouldn't entice them to do it (saving of $5/week for taking useless bus trips for inner city people, most wouldn't bother). I should also quote what I have said in another thread:
Quote
Agreed! As I said earlier (not sure if it was this thread or not), unless you're travelling to Gympie North, the time you'd actually need to spend getting 10 trips at 3 transfers a trip = 40 segments (A-B, not A-B-A), and say it takes you an average of 5mins a segment (including crossover and waiting time) you're looking at 200mins for a week of free travel. Thats over 3 hours. Considering the average punter I imagine is paid at least $20/hr (9-5 commuter) that's over $60 in time cost. Even more pointless for a concession holder to do.

Quote
Also, you don't seem to have considered the issues from the perspective of poor people.  All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.

Topping up the go card is not hard. Most* people (*not all, I agree) have access to the internet so you can set up internet banking, and most* people have access to a newsagent in their local area which would top up go cards. It would be devine if the big supermarkets also supported this and allowed topping up go cards, at least at the service desk, but currently this is not so.

"Poor people" would in fact be making a significant saving if they invested in a go card. Even topping up your go card weekly or fortnightly shouldn't be a hassle and is saving you the time and money in buying one from the bus driver/ferry conductor/train station window/machine. As I said earlier, most* people have access to some sort of method for topping it up.
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somebody

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2012, 11:37:33 AM »
I'm not saying bring back paper tickets.  Read my post.  
You were actually.  You said:
Quote
I think its a the wrong political move for your lobby group/ forum to advocate the Go Card.
But let's assume that you didn't mean it the way it came out.

I'm saying bring in concessions for disadvantaged people
To my knowledge these have only increased in the Go Card with the Seniors (are they disadvantaged?) 2 journeys then free per day idea.

incorporate dailies, weekly, and monthly fares within the Go Card structure.  
NO!!!

These are regressive options which are only retained in smart card systems as a sop to whingers.

The go card as it is is inflexible.
You call it inflexible, I call it applying the KISS principle.

And the core issue remains regardless of tangental debates about the intricacies of the Go Card:  Brisbane's public transport is not as good as other Australian cities, and its far more expensive.
Go Card is one of the best aspects of Brisbane's PT.  The other issues are unrelated to Go Card.

My Mum and Dad were visiting recently from Victoria, they are 70.  They decided to go to the museum.  Dad asked for 2 return tickets to Southbank.  He was told, to his total amazement, that he couldn't buy a return ticket.  The 4 senior fares he bought to and from his designation were triple what he would have paid in Melbourne for similar journey.  Just one example of the inflexibility.
The only problem that I have with that story is that it isn't easy enough to get a Go Card.  If they were using a train from a station where they could have bought an appropriate Go Card then I don't have too much sympathy.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2012, 11:38:28 AM »
Have a read here --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=135.0

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Antoniolino

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2012, 11:41:16 AM »
Quote
Brisbane public transport is half as good but twice as expensive as every other Australian capital.


It's not 'twice as expensive as every other Aus capital' at all. Now who is the one muddying the waters?

Quote
Also, you don't seem to have considered the issues from the perspective of poor people.  All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.

Also, other cities have the equivalent of a Gocard, but still have dailies/ weeklies/ monthlies, either on the card or as separate tickets.
If poor people cant afford to buy in bulk then how does a periodical, which must be bought up front, benefit them?

Perth has no periodicals.

We already have a weekly. The 10 journey cap is exactly that, it caps the amount you can pay in one week.

Quote
I'm saying bring in concessions for disadvantaged people,
Which other groups should be covered? (Not being smart, just a question)

The other group that should be covered is unemployed people.  Brisbane is the only city in Australia that does not have a concession for unemployed health care card holders.  Pensioners, yes they have a strong political lobby, students yes, disabled yes.

Also re me muddying the waters, I'm not.  I'm actually being conservative on the 'double the price' call. (putting the above loophole exploiting measures aside and remembering that a significant amount of people, probably the majority, take less than 10 trips per week.  It would take me all day to argue my case convincingly, but I could. Instead, please check the comments in response to the CM and BT online articles.  A lot of very good detailed examples of people who have moved here from other cities who are shocked by the cost.  And I don't say shocked lightly.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2012, 11:44:49 AM »
Quote
All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.
OK I'll address a point. Go Card can be topped up with $5 as a minimum anyway , which is comparable to the cheapest one way paper ticket available ($4.50)
So there's no difference in affordiblity.

The issue is the fare levels, not the ticketing media.

You're right that is the issue.

On the $5 recharge, thats fair enough.  But disadvantaged people generally want to get on a bus or train, buy a ticket and take a trip.  My Mum and Dad were visiting recently from Victoria, they are 70.  They decided to go to the museum.  Dad asked for 2 return tickets to Southbank.  He was told, to his total amazement, that he couldn't buy a return ticket.  The 4 senior fares he bought to and from his designation were triple what he would have paid in Melbourne for similar journey.  Just one example of the inflexibility.

Do your homework, rather than whine.  Your parents could have got a seniors go card, and taken advantage of the two journey cap. This perhaps one of the best fare deals in the nation, if not the world.   --> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/types-of-go-card

I know many Seniors who at first had some trepidation about the go card, but now understand it and how the two journey cap works.  They love it, and are getting all their friends and family on the go.  They are sensible.  I have spent hours and hours showing Seniors how the go card works and explaining the fares.  As I said, we actually care for the community ...
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2012, 11:46:48 AM »
Quote
The other group that should be covered is unemployed people.  Brisbane is the only city in Australia that does not have a concession for unemployed health care card holders.  Pensioners, yes they have a strong political lobby, students yes, disabled yes.

I would agree with this. HCC holders should be included IMHO as they have low income.
http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/conc_cards_hcc.htm#eligible
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2012, 11:47:20 AM »
Quote
The other group that should be covered is unemployed people.  Brisbane is the only city in Australia that does not have a concession for unemployed health care card holders.

Agree absolutely Antoniolino, we have argued again and again with Government at all levels for that concession. We have supported QCOSS with their efforts for this concession.

We haven't given up either and will continue to press for this.
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Antoniolino

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2012, 11:47:32 AM »
I'm not saying bring back paper tickets.  Read my post.  
You were actually.  You said:
Quote
I think its a the wrong political move for your lobby group/ forum to advocate the Go Card.
But let's assume that you didn't mean it the way it came out.

I'm saying bring in concessions for disadvantaged people
To my knowledge these have only increased in the Go Card with the Seniors (are they disadvantaged?) 2 journeys then free per day idea.

incorporate dailies, weekly, and monthly fares within the Go Card structure.  
NO!!!

These are regressive options which are only retained in smart card systems as a sop to whingers.

The go card as it is is inflexible.
You call it inflexible, I call it applying the KISS principle.

And the core issue remains regardless of tangental debates about the intricacies of the Go Card:  Brisbane's public transport is not as good as other Australian cities, and its far more expensive.
Go Card is one of the best aspects of Brisbane's PT.  The other issues are unrelated to Go Card.

My Mum and Dad were visiting recently from Victoria, they are 70.  They decided to go to the museum.  Dad asked for 2 return tickets to Southbank.  He was told, to his total amazement, that he couldn't buy a return ticket.  The 4 senior fares he bought to and from his designation were triple what he would have paid in Melbourne for similar journey.  Just one example of the inflexibility.
The only problem that I have with that story is that it isn't easy enough to get a Go Card.  If they were using a train from a station where they could have bought an appropriate Go Card then I don't have too much sympathy.

Wow.  99% of the people who responded to the online media articles mentioned above, my parents, every single one of my friends who has ever visited from another city must be taking crazy pills.

Do you work for the Translink Go Card unit?

Offline Mr X

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2012, 11:54:14 AM »
Should this discussion be split off? It's getting off topic and is relating to go card overall and not using it optimally.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2012, 11:56:16 AM »
Should this discussion be split off? It's getting off topic and is relating to go card overall and not using it optimally.

No, leave it be, it is good to discuss these issues and in a broad sense still relevant.

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Offline Gazza

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2012, 11:58:40 AM »
Quote
I'm actually being conservative on the 'double the price' call.
You said double the price of all Aussie capitals, so ill hold you to that.

Ill take an 8km journey for ease of calculation. Smartcard listed first where available, paper 2nd.

-Brisbane: $3.58 / $5.20 Toombul
-Perth: $2.21/$2.60  Loch Street
-Melbourne: $3.28/$4 Jewel
-Sydney:  --/$3.40 Wolli Creek
-Adelaide:  --/$4.70 Woodville

For paper, the only place it is double is between Perth and Brisbane.

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2012, 12:02:28 PM »
Quote
All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.
OK I'll address a point. Go Card can be topped up with $5 as a minimum anyway , which is comparable to the cheapest one way paper ticket available ($4.50)
So there's no difference in affordiblity.

The issue is the fare levels, not the ticketing media.

You're right that is the issue.

On the $5 recharge, thats fair enough.  But disadvantaged people generally want to get on a bus or train, buy a ticket and take a trip.  My Mum and Dad were visiting recently from Victoria, they are 70.  They decided to go to the museum.  Dad asked for 2 return tickets to Southbank.  He was told, to his total amazement, that he couldn't buy a return ticket.  The 4 senior fares he bought to and from his designation were triple what he would have paid in Melbourne for similar journey.  Just one example of the inflexibility.

Do your homework, rather than whine.  Your parents could have got a seniors go card, and taken advantage of the two journey cap. This perhaps one of the best fare deals in the nation, if not the world.   --> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/types-of-go-card

I know many Seniors who at first had some trepidation about the go card, but now understand it and how the two journey cap works.  They love it, and are getting all their friends and family on the go.  They are sensible.  I have spent hours and hours showing Seniors how the go card works and explaining the fares.  As I said, we actually care for the community ...

My parents were in town for 1 day.  I'd do your homework on comparing deals for pensioners.  Example, pensioners travel free in Adelaide off peak.  I think its similar in Perth, I do know thats its a better deal in Melbourne, Can't comment on Sydney.

Offline Mr X

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2012, 12:04:42 PM »
Quote
1, 2, Free - Senior and pensioner concession travel

Seniors Card +go, Senior or Pensioner go cardholders who make 2 go card journeys in one day travel for free for the rest of the day.
= daily $2.88 fare, provided their first two trips are in offpeak. $3.58 for peak. If they travel in zone 2.
Or double whatever the pensioner/concession go card fare is for a daily travel. No special ticket needed- even better! Just use the go card like normal. Even more flexible than paper imho  ;) most people would kill for that type of discount.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2012, 12:07:10 PM »
Quote
All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.
OK I'll address a point. Go Card can be topped up with $5 as a minimum anyway , which is comparable to the cheapest one way paper ticket available ($4.50)
So there's no difference in affordiblity.

The issue is the fare levels, not the ticketing media.

You're right that is the issue.

On the $5 recharge, thats fair enough.  But disadvantaged people generally want to get on a bus or train, buy a ticket and take a trip.  My Mum and Dad were visiting recently from Victoria, they are 70.  They decided to go to the museum.  Dad asked for 2 return tickets to Southbank.  He was told, to his total amazement, that he couldn't buy a return ticket.  The 4 senior fares he bought to and from his designation were triple what he would have paid in Melbourne for similar journey.  Just one example of the inflexibility.

Do your homework, rather than whine.  Your parents could have got a seniors go card, and taken advantage of the two journey cap. This perhaps one of the best fare deals in the nation, if not the world.   --> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/types-of-go-card

I know many Seniors who at first had some trepidation about the go card, but now understand it and how the two journey cap works.  They love it, and are getting all their friends and family on the go.  They are sensible.  I have spent hours and hours showing Seniors how the go card works and explaining the fares.  As I said, we actually care for the community ...

My parents were in town for 1 day.  I'd do your homework on comparing deals for pensioners.  Example, pensioners travel free in Adelaide off peak.  I think its similar in Perth, I do know thats its a better deal in Melbourne, Can't comment on Sydney.

But pay in peak.  On the two journey cap 2 x $1.53 and seniors than travel free off peak and peak with the go, all day, all over, done my homework ....
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Offline Arnz

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2012, 12:08:18 PM »
Quote
All social research shows that poor people can never afford to buy in bulk, if they need to take a trip they buy a single ticket. Think about that.
OK I'll address a point. Go Card can be topped up with $5 as a minimum anyway , which is comparable to the cheapest one way paper ticket available ($4.50)
So there's no difference in affordiblity.

The issue is the fare levels, not the ticketing media.

You're right that is the issue.

On the $5 recharge, thats fair enough.  But disadvantaged people generally want to get on a bus or train, buy a ticket and take a trip.  My Mum and Dad were visiting recently from Victoria, they are 70.  They decided to go to the museum.  Dad asked for 2 return tickets to Southbank.  He was told, to his total amazement, that he couldn't buy a return ticket.  The 4 senior fares he bought to and from his designation were triple what he would have paid in Melbourne for similar journey.  Just one example of the inflexibility.

Do your homework, rather than whine.  Your parents could have got a seniors go card, and taken advantage of the two journey cap. This perhaps one of the best fare deals in the nation, if not the world.   --> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/types-of-go-card

I know many Seniors who at first had some trepidation about the go card, but now understand it and how the two journey cap works.  They love it, and are getting all their friends and family on the go.  They are sensible.  I have spent hours and hours showing Seniors how the go card works and explaining the fares.  As I said, we actually care for the community ...

My parents were in town for 1 day.  I'd do your homework on comparing deals for pensioners.  Example, pensioners travel free in Adelaide off peak.  I think its similar in Perth, I do know thats its a better deal in Melbourne, Can't comment on Sydney.

2 journeys then free isn't a bad deal for pensioners.  For example, taking a trip from Dutton Park into the City, then another trip out to one of the many Toowong restaurants, before going to visit relatives in Ipswich for example.

They only pay for the first 2 journeys (Zone 1-1), their trip to Ipswich (Zone 7 ) to visit relatives is then free (which is intended by TransLink, not a loophole.  As pensioners do have different travel patterns to the typical 9-5 commuter or Uni/TAFE student).
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Offline Derwan

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2012, 12:10:49 PM »
The Go Card isn't perfect - but it's the way forward.  Rail BOT has always advocated for better fare structures without regressing to the limitations of paper tickets (e.g. daily, weekly and monthly upfront payments).

Given the reluctance of the Queensland Government (for whatever reason) to implement a better fare structure, we have always openly discussed ways to maximise the value we get from the Go Card - such as touching on within an hour to record the trip as a continuation rather than a new journey.  This can make quick, return trips a lot cheaper (with the return trip being "free").

Here we have another situation where commuters can "legitimately" save money - by (for example) simply making an extra short journey or two during the week when their normal journey to/from work is a long one.

Of course, if we had reasonably priced public transport and a decent fare structure, we wouldn't necessary be pushing these methods to "take advantage" of the system.
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Antoniolino

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2012, 12:11:03 PM »
Quote
I'm actually being conservative on the 'double the price' call.
You said double the price of all Aussie capitals, so ill hold you to that.

Ill take an 8km journey for ease of calculation. Smartcard listed first where available, paper 2nd.

-Brisbane: $3.58 / $5.20 Toombul
-Perth: $2.21/$2.60  Loch Street
-Melbourne: $3.28/$4 Jewel
-Sydney:  --/$3.40 Wolli Creek
-Adelaide:  --/$4.70 Woodville

For paper, the only place it is double is between Perth and Brisbane.


This is where the waters get muddy.  I'm talking about 2 similar types of people using public transport in Brisbane and any other city.  That is, for example, a part time worker living in Preston, Melbourne V living in Moorooka, Brisbane.  Their weekly bill would be well over double in Brisbane.  In a nutshell, the pay-per-trip structure of the Go-Card closes off a whole stack of ways to save depending on usage available to these in other Australian cities.

ps. that paper ticket you list above for Melbourne, by way of another example, is not a sinlge trip ticket, it entitles the holder to travel for 2 hours in a zone with a 10km radius from the GPO.  Have a think about that.

Antoniolino

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2012, 12:14:25 PM »

Of course, if we had reasonably priced public transport and a decent fare structure, we wouldn't necessary be pushing these methods to "take advantage" of the system.

Bingo Derwan, Bingo.  For a minute there I was really starting to think I was taking crazy pills.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2012, 12:17:04 PM »
Quote
Wow.  99% of the people who responded to the online media articles mentioned above, my parents, every single one of my friends who has ever visited from another city must be taking crazy pills.
Well, not Crazy Pills, but people on the CM etc do have a tendency to whinge and exaggerate, and write in ALL CAPS COS THEY WANNA YELL !!!11!!!!11111

This is an on-line forum, so its gonna be fact based, and a higher level of discussion.

And please, don't pull out the whole "You must work for the government to think that"....Mufreight already tried that and it doesn't work on here.

People on here would know I'm 100% fact based when I post, and don't take kindly to red herrings, sh%t arguments, and people trying to "spin" as badly as a pollie.

I like Go Card because it speeds up bus boarding times. I'd have no problem with a 100% cashless, go card only system, provided some changes were made as a precursor to allow that to happen without inconveniencing people. Already threads detailing this, so no need to repeat the measures I had in mind.

I don't dwell too much on the fare structure, because its different ways of doing a fancy calculation....But as BILO used to say on their ads, "its the total on the docket that counts".

Periodicals existed because they were practical at the time, a means of reducing the number of cash transactions. That's why Melbourne had stuff like the 10x 2h Metcard.
We're electronic now, so a lot of the older arguments are out the window, and I think the fare structure need only follow KISS, with a general guiding principle that the more you use it, the more you save.

You can achieve exactly the same benefits as a periodical by just offering each journey at the same price as what it was per day under the old periodical (Divide the cost of the periodical by the number of days valid), and benefit everyone with the discount, rather than just people who can afford to prepay.
Things are more complicated in Brisbane because fares went up at the same time as periodicals were withdrawn, which is a shame.

Only a tiny percentage of pax used monthly and yearlies before their withdrawal anyway, so they were what you would call a vocal minority.

Why are people complaining that the 10 trips then free isn't good enough because they dont use PT on weekends, then in the same breath saying they want weekly tickets back?
If they weren't doing any more than 10 trips, then they weren't benefiting from weeklies anyway!

I do agree healthcare card holders should get concessions.... Should RBoT partner with ACOSS etc to push this?





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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2012, 12:21:03 PM »
Wow.  99% of the people who responded to the online media articles mentioned above, my parents, every single one of my friends who has ever visited from another city must be taking crazy pills.

Do you work for the Translink Go Card unit?
No I don't work for them.  You may find if you read a lot of my other posts I am very critical of Translink on many issues, but there are a few they get close to right, and Go Card is one of them.

My parents were in town for 1 day.  I'd do your homework on comparing deals for pensioners.  Example, pensioners travel free in Adelaide off peak.  I think its similar in Perth, I do know thats its a better deal in Melbourne, Can't comment on Sydney.
One might expect that they would be back.  For one day it is arguable about being worth getting a Seniors Go Card, but if you don't want to spend a few minutes to obtain a Seniors Go Card and then refund it (if you aren't coming back), then I don't have sympathy for them complaining about the expense.

In a nutshell, the pay-per-trip structure of the Go-Card closes off a whole stack of ways to save depending on usage available to these in other Australian cities.
Ways-to-save = farebox leakage.  Are the base fares going to be increased to compensate?  You have already complained that the base fares are too expensive.

STB

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2012, 12:29:58 PM »
Just for my two pennies worth.

Go Card is now a defacto weekly ticket.  Just as the previous weekly tickets worked, you paid in bulk for a certain number of journeys and then got free travel.  If you didn't take up that offer of free travel then it is no different than buying a weekly ticket and not using those extra days that were given as free to you.  Or if you fail to take up the remaining paid trips, that you paid for from the start when you brought a weekly ticket (think it was equal to paying for 8 single trips back in those days), then you would've wasted your money as you would not of used it to it's full paid use.

The benefits of the Go Card is that unlike the traditional weekly paper ticket is that it's not confined to certain zones.  You only pay for the zones that you travel through.  If you for some reason don't travel during the week eg: if you get sick, under a weekly ticket you would've lost money as you wouldn't be using it, with the Go Card, if you aren't travelling you aren't spending the money and thus aren't wasting your money having a ticket that you aren't using.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Using the new go card fare structure optimally.
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2012, 12:30:16 PM »
Quote
This is where the waters get muddy.  I'm talking about 2 similar types of people using public transport in Brisbane and any other city.  That is, for example, a part time worker living in Preston, Melbourne V living in Moorooka, Brisbane.  Their weekly bill would be well over double in Brisbane.  In a nutshell, the pay-per-trip structure of the Go-Card closes off a whole stack of ways to save depending on usage available to these in other Australian cities.
I'm not sure what you are saying with respect to part time.
Should I assume they are working 3 days a week?

Preston is in the overlap zone so take Z1. $6.56 times 3 is $19.68

Moorooka is in Zone 3. $4.24 times 6 is $25.44

That's still not double.

If we max out the most able to be paid, on both options on a per week basis.

Preston: $32.80

Moorooka: $42.40

We still aren't "Well over double".


Quote
ps. that paper ticket you list above for Melbourne, by way of another example, is not a sinlge trip ticket, it entitles the holder to travel for 2 hours in a zone with a 10km radius from the GPO.  Have a think about that.
I think Single and 2h can be used interchangeably in this context.

In Brisbane:
http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/other-tickets/paper-tickets
Quote
With a single paper ticket, you can transfer between any number of buses, trains and ferries in a two hour window (within the zones your ticket is for).

The two hours starts when you buy your ticket.

Transfers must be made between different route numbered services (return journeys are not permitted).

Passengers travelling through 11 zones or more will have their final transfer time extended by 90 minutes.
So basically the same. Return journeys are not policed in effect.
In practice they work the same, so why are you clutching at straws?

 

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