How to introduce the 15min timetable at minimal cost

[rtt_rules]

Trains - Govt has spent alot of money buying 3 car sets not 6 car, off peak its therefore reasonable to suggest they run 4 x 3 car sets per hour rather than 2 x 6 car sets at no extra cost apart from small cost of breaking and joining. Surely this doesn't cost that much!

Staff - Brisbane is in the smaller and shrinking catergory of 2 man train crews. On 6 car sets, almost justified due to low platform height issues and train length on curved platforms. On 3 car sets the trains should revert to single DOO operation, as per Melbourne. The driver can assist the relavtively few that need assistance and at stations with a high number of disabled and pram users, either these stations have a station attendent on hand to assist when required (1 person serves alot of trains) or ramps can be built at the front door of a 3 car position at you would think at relatively low cost per platform. Some more extra curved platforms may need automatic platform extenders due to platform curvature on the ramp to close the gap when train is present. Not uncommon in overseas countries such as Nth Europe where platforms were all and most systems still are low platform height.

Track - Post Ferny Grove works, a new service Manly to Ferny Grove could be started with no extra infrastructure cost as part of initial trial for day off peak.

Assuming sucessful the quad section from Salisbury to Kuraby would be completed (and most expensive part of the 15min timetable) which would also aid peak traffic with the current Yerrongpilly services now able to orginate or terminate further south such as Kuaby or Beenleigh. For Commonwealth games a 15min Gold Coast time table through the day will most likely be required if the govt is to try and prevent the M1 from being in gridlock. Existing 30min timetable will not cope, especially on weekends with many trains are already running with strong loadings now. Once the quad section is complete, 15min services from both Beenleigh and Gold Coast are now available. All Beenleigh trains would then service the Ferny Grove line and all Gold Coast the Airport line. The single track sections on the Airport line and Gold Coast line will not impede 15min services.

Springfield/Ipswich to Kippa-ring/Cabulture services will have 15min between Darra and Petrie once Kippa-ring is open (if not sooner), no extra trackwork required post inital capital projects completion. On nth side, trains run express Bowen Hills to Eagle Junction as there will be a 15min timetable on Suburban line. From Eagle Junction to Northgate, one of the Caboolture or Kipp-ring services would be express as there will be 15min services provided by Shorncliff service.

Cleveland/Manly would provide a 15min service from Manly (30min from Cleveland) feeding into Shorncliff and Doomben at 30min each. If successful a shuttle on Shorncliff line could be provided from Northgate to Shorncliff to provide a 15min service (requires 2 trains) as there will be more than a 15min services to Northgate provided by the Caboolture/Kippa-ring and Shorncliff services. The advantage of the shuttle over running from the city as it reduces the number of services on the Bowen Hills to Northgate section leaving more slots for freight and long distance passenger services as well more efficent use of suburban trains, ie higher loading capacity. For improved reliability potentially the Doomben line duplication would be extended to or closer to Clayfield to enable passing of late running services off the main line.

Lines or sections of line remaining on 30min,
- Cleveland, although maybe oppurtunity to extend 15min to Lota or Thornside
- Springifield, door is always open for shuttle to Ipswich trains
- Ipswich, issue is extensive freight services on this route, passing lanes would be required for reliability. And/Or Rosewood services  could be extended to Darra to connect with Springfield services.
- Kipp-Ring, could use shuttle to connect with Caboolture services
- Caboolture, some of station can take advantage of Sunshine coast trains.
- Doomben, trackwork not suitable, would need extension to either Hamilton or Industrial area to justify numbers but combined with bus to Eagle Junction can achieve 15min.

Alt Option for delayed quad of Kuraby to Salsibury.
- Based on suitable trackwork terminate extra 15min Beenleigh service at Yerongpilly to Salsibury OR Corinda.
- 15min to Gold Coast possible, but will not be clockface and will need to have alot of extra stops on Beenleigh line making it less user friendly.



Regards
Shane

[HappyTrainGuy]

Any quadding to Kuraby is the same prospect as a Kippa Ring railway line was back in the late 1890's 

[somebody]

2tph to Springfield?  Urgh.

Caboolture - why?
Kippa-Ring - why times infinity.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It still doesn't address the issues with freight travelling along multiple lines (NCL related freight can travel along Ipswich, Caboolture/Nambour, Shorncliffe (depending on via mains or subs) Beenleigh/Gold Coast corridors. Western coal/freight travels through Rosewood/Ipswich, Gold Coast/Beenleigh, Cleveland Corridors), through multiple 25kph junctions and in some instances blocking entire lines. Sydney and Melbourne have freight bypasses. Brisbane doesn't (Fishermans Island is more of a 20km passing loop as freight traffic still uses the passenger lines. Tennyson could be claimed to be a dedicated freight bypass as it doesn't handle passenger traffic anymore ). Only the Ferny Grove line is 100% freight free.

[O_128]

It still doesn't address the issues with freight travelling along multiple lines (NCL related freight can travel along Ipswich, Caboolture/Nambour, Shorncliffe (depending on via mains or subs) Beenleigh/Gold Coast corridors. Western coal/freight travels through Rosewood/Ipswich, Gold Coast/Beenleigh, Cleveland Corridors), through multiple 25kph junctions and in some instances blocking entire lines. Sydney and Melbourne have freight bypasses. Brisbane doesn't (Fishermans Island is more of a 20km passing loop as freight traffic still uses the passenger lines. Tennyson could be claimed to be a dedicated freight bypass as it doesn't handle passenger traffic anymore ). Only the Ferny Grove line is 100% freight free.

Manly is one of the best options though as it is technically 3 tracks to lindum, If you can't run 15 min to manly and mix in freight with 3 tracks (yes its not electrified) then what can you do? As Ive said other cities can manage more than 2tph with 2 tracks why can't we? There is little point building kippa ring for 2tph, I would love to see the business case for it I assume it is one sentence "1 billion dollars will give us votes"

[#Metro]

Manly is one of the best options though as it is technically 3 tracks to lindum, If you can't run 15 min to manly and mix in freight with 3 tracks (yes its not electrified) then what can you do? As Ive said other cities can manage more than 2tph with 2 tracks why can't we? There is little point building kippa ring for 2tph, I would love to see the business case for it I assume it is one sentence "1 billion dollars will give us votes"

These studies assume high peak load, that is we are looking at 6000 - 10 000 pphd in peak hour. To do this using a busway, you need
6000 / 85 capacity = 70 buses in one hour (a bus and a bit every minute - although I wonder how Toronto does it). Which is why they are built as train lines, rather than busway to rail shuttles.

I don't see why say, Richlands (shuttle to Corinda) and Shorncliffe and even Doomben cannot operate as high frequency shuttles feeding the mainlines if that's what is needed.
Transfer on a rail system is easy- walk across the platform.

Land may need to be acquired for the construction of apron platforms and short refuge track and overhead passageways to permit easy transfer, but the cost of that is far, far cheaper than full blown duplication.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Cleveland can easily run a 15 minute frequency all day with freight but it gets its own issues with capacity once it gets to the Merivale bridge slotting inbetween services that it shares with the Gold Coast and Beenleigh lines. Do you remember prior to the timetable changes the afternoon Cleveland to Caboolture train that frequently was held outside of Park Road, at Southbank or at South Brisbane while it waited for the Gold Coast train to pass, waited for the airport train to pass, waited for the Caboolture express to clear platform 9 and waited for the Gympie express to slot into platform 7.

[BrizCommuter]

Minimal cost and quadding Salisbury to Kuraby are contradictory.

BTW, quadding is only required to as far out as Banoon according to the ICRCS.

15 minutes to Kuraby, Ferny Grove, and Manly can be run on existing infrastructure, just with a slow down of Gold Coast services for the former.

BrizCommuter supports eliminating guards.

[SurfRail]

BTW, quadding is only required to as far out as Banoon according to the ICRCS.

The CRR team also thinks they can get away with 3 tracks only through Salisbury, so I would take that with a grain of salt. 

4 to Kuraby would certainly be better, and the corridor would not need huge modification, although if we used the current iteration of the line it would further lock in the shite alignment between Coopers Plains and Runcorn.  We might therefore be better off deferring any amplifications beyond Banooon until we can realign and eliminate Sunnybank, Altandi and Runcorn and replace with a single underground or built-over stop at Pinelands with a decent bus interchange to boot.  (Some will no doubt suggest canning Banoon as well owing to its poor performance, however the station spacing ends up nice and even between Coopers Plains and Fruitgrove if you leave it there, and it would pick up a bit of the surrounding walk-up patronage not prepared to catch a bus or drive to Pinelands or Coopers Plains - also room for more park'n'ride there.)

15 minutes to Kuraby, Ferny Grove, and Manly can be run on existing infrastructure, just with a slow down of Gold Coast services for the former.

I would say you could get 15 minute frequencies as far as Petrie and Sandgate as well.  Nothing stopping Petrie happening before MBRL, not even the missing third track from Lawnton really.  Perhaps look at closing Virginia and Sunshine owing to low patronage and limited opportunity to grow it, and upgrading the feeder bus services and routes like the 306/310/315 to account for the loss by feeding people into Northgate, Banyo and Geebung.  It is a nice straight stretch along here and could cut into the timetable a bit if stops were deleted.

For Sandgate, you would really need the DDA upgrade which is to be completed in mid to late 2012 (certainly no earlier than a 15 min timetable appearing).   You would also need to accept sending only every second train to Shorncliffe until the second track appears - but let's face it, it wouldn't be a reduction in current service levels for the end of the line just because every other station does better out of the arrangement, would it?

Close Bindha while we are at it too.  If nothing else, it means trains can pass the Golden Circle plant without the possibility of the stink of decaying pinapples being let in...

[somebody]

2tph to Springfield?  Urgh.

Caboolture - why?
Kippa-Ring - why times infinity.

I edited shortly after so may have answered the ?

As I indicated, 15min could be done with use of shuttles to make more pratical on cost side. ie unless trains are at 50% or greater capacity at the junction, option to combine off-peak 15min services at junctions. Mel and Syd do this and I believe is a good way to increase service frequency without ignoring the taxpayer's limitations. Only question is which line is a shuttle and do you run 30min through services and 30min shuttles intermixed on one line.

Regards
Shane

Not really.  Cityrail only have shuttles on non-electrified lines, and the ridiculous air parcel Chatswood-Epping-Hornsby services.  The latter is presumably a combination of political insistence to have 4tph on the new ECRL line, and reluctance to send these trains to Richmond and increase frequency on the Penrith stretch back to what it was.

Not so sure about Mel.  I think they have shuttles on Stony Point (diesel) and Altona.  The latter not without huge protests.

[Jonas Jade]

Melbourne shuttles are

Stony Point (DMU - very low frequency - this is more comparable to Rosewood)

Current suburban shuttles are:
Alamein shuttles operate outside of peak to connect at Camberwell - the train at Camberwell is generally held & connection made.

Altona - the new timetable introduced a shuttle weekday interpeak (from say 9am-5pm) from Laverton - Newport via Altona on the Werribee line to reduce delays due to single track.

Williamstown evenings & weekends connects at Newport (through service when the Altona shuttle operates).

Dandenong - Cranbourne and Ringwood - Belgrave/Lilydale operates shuttles for some services during evenings off-peak and weekends, but are usually served by alternating destinations - eg Sunday pattern from Ringwood is 20 min frequency, direct train from City through to Lilydale, with shuttle to Belgrave, then the next train in 20 mins is a Belgrave through train with a Lilydale shuttle.

EDIT: the Altona shuttles have a large protest against them because there is 8 minutes slack I think in the transfer time at Newport to allow for late running....

[somebody]

Carlingford, the multi tier Central Coast line is effectively the same.

I'd spot you Carligford, I did forget about that one.  I think the whole daily patronage can fit in to a 4 car (or maybe train, so not exactly a model to follow.

[Derwan]

Close Bindha while we are at it too.  If nothing else, it means trains can pass the Golden Circle plant without the possibility of the stink of decaying pinapples being let in...

So you'd close a station because of the smell?  What about everyone who uses it?  The Golden Circle workers (well those left) wouldn't be happy!

[SurfRail]

Close Bindha while we are at it too.  If nothing else, it means trains can pass the Golden Circle plant without the possibility of the stink of decaying pinapples being let in...

So you'd close a station because of the smell?  What about everyone who uses it?  The Golden Circle workers (well those left) wouldn't be happy!

There are fewer passengers alighting at Bindha per day than the number of trains passing through in a single direction.  Not worth keeping it, and there is a time (and olfactory) advantage in eliminating it.

It's basically the General Motors of Brisbane at this point, although not quite as bad.

[somebody]

Must agree with SurfRail re: Bindha.

[mufreight]

Of course spliting the six car sets into three car trains and operationg them driver only would enable the operation of a 15 minute frequency on most lines off peak with the additional benefits of a better fare box because of the increased convenience for commuters and also better connections with less waiting time.
Too simple.

[SurfRail]

Of course spliting the six car sets into three car trains and operationg them driver only would enable the operation of a 15 minute frequency on most lines off peak with the additional benefits of a better fare box because of the increased convenience for commuters and also better connections with less waiting time.
Too simple.

Absolutely agree.

A Labor government would never do anything this inflammatory to the unions though.  They have few enough friends as it is.

[BrizCommuter]

Of course spliting the six car sets into three car trains and operationg them driver only would enable the operation of a 15 minute frequency on most lines off peak with the additional benefits of a better fare box because of the increased convenience for commuters and also better connections with less waiting time.
Too simple.

Absolutely agree.

A Labor government would never do anything this inflammatory to the unions though.  They have few enough friends as it is.

A Labor government is only going to be around for a few more months, so this comment is not valid.

For Sandgate, you would really need the DDA upgrade which is to be completed in mid to late 2012 (certainly no earlier than a 15 min timetable appearing).   You would also need to accept sending only every second train to Shorncliffe until the second track appears - but let's face it, it wouldn't be a reduction in current service levels for the end of the line just because every other station does better out of the arrangement, would it?

15 min peak/off-peak could technically be run to Shorncliffe post Sandgate upgrade. The Alamein Line in Melbourne manages 15 mins off-peak with the last two stations being single track.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Just don't split a few certain EMUs. Could be quite the problem once you walk to the other end 

[BrizCommuter]

Briz commuter
Re: Beenleigh Quad, ICRCS report I just don't get. Enter the current 30min Gold Coast and Beenleigh timetable into Excel, then add 15min in clockface format and the passes are Kuraby - Salisbury. No need for extra trackage to Kingston or beyond or north of Sal's. The reason for this length of quad is to provide some buffering with up to 3min between trains before track is reduced to 2 tracks again.

You are only looking at the off-peak scenario. The peak scenario is more complex, as the track slots through the CBD my not allow for passing in the vicinity of Coopers Plains as would be the case by adding 15 min service to the current timetable. There are also extra empty services running to/from Kuraby in the peaks.

Triplication is required between Kuraby and Kingston (along with Coomera to Helensvale duplication) if better than 12min Gold Coast peak frequency is required, or for a 12 min frequency to be run reliably. The Kuraby to Kingston triplication was quietly dropped after the last election.

[SurfRail]

15 min peak/off-peak could technically be run to Shorncliffe post Sandgate upgrade. The Alamein Line in Melbourne manages 15 mins off-peak with the last two stations being single track.

I expect the crew changes and stabling occur at Camberwell based on my observations.  Not quite the same kettle of fish to anywhere up here, as there you have what is effectively a "dock" platform for the Alamein shuttles (not to mention a grade separated junction). 

[somebody]

Of course spliting the six car sets into three car trains and operationg them driver only would enable the operation of a 15 minute frequency on most lines off peak with the additional benefits of a better fare box because of the increased convenience for commuters and also better connections with less waiting time.
Too simple.

Absolutely agree.

I think that many other rail systems don't bother with continual splitting and merging, or at least are moving away from it should tell you the cost effectiviness of dividing and joining.  Just run DOO with 6 car units.  Lock the rear 3 cars if you like.

A Labor government would never do anything this inflammatory to the unions though.  They have few enough friends as it is.

A Labor government is only going to be around for a few more months, so this comment is not valid.

It isn't over until the fat lady sings.  Do you guys remember John Hewson?

It isn't inflammatory to the unions if you are increasing services though is it, as that means the same number of jobs and possibly more.  EDIT: I think that if the LNP makes an issue out of the waste of 2 man crews that would actually be quite popular. /EDIT

For Sandgate, you would really need the DDA upgrade which is to be completed in mid to late 2012 (certainly no earlier than a 15 min timetable appearing).   You would also need to accept sending only every second train to Shorncliffe until the second track appears - but let's face it, it wouldn't be a reduction in current service levels for the end of the line just because every other station does better out of the arrangement, would it?

But why not just run to Shorncliffe?  In the even of very late running terminating at Sandgate for the train behind the very late train seems perfectly acceptable, at least as compared to the current situation.

[BrizCommuter]

15 min peak/off-peak could technically be run to Shorncliffe post Sandgate upgrade. The Alamein Line in Melbourne manages 15 mins off-peak with the last two stations being single track.

I expect the crew changes and stabling occur at Camberwell based on my observations.  Not quite the same kettle of fish to anywhere up here, as there you have what is effectively a "dock" platform for the Alamein shuttles (not to mention a grade separated junction). 

BrizCommuter was referring to the other end of the line.
http://www.vicsig.net/index.php?page=infrastructure&interlocking=Ashburton

[somebody]

Of course spliting the six car sets into three car trains and operationg them driver only would enable the operation of a 15 minute frequency on most lines off peak with the additional benefits of a better fare box because of the increased convenience for commuters and also better connections with less waiting time.
Too simple.

I'll still don't see the economics in dragging around a fleet of blacked out EMU's, 140t of train stopping and starting every 3min for hours on end for nothing. How does this add up to being cheaper than taking a few minutes to cut it off, surely the benefit of the Schaffer (spelling coupler).


regards
Shane

The electricity cost of doing it is not very high.  Electricity isn't that expensive.  Cityrail listed their "bulk electricity" cost as $36mil a few years ago.  I think it might have been 2003/4.  I'm sure QR's is less.  This is while labour costs hundreds of millions or even billion(s) in Cityrail's case.  Perhaps there is a wear and tear advantage.

John Hewson was arrogrant and just assumed the voters were so sick of Keating they wanted him out regardless. The Libs learnt alot from that election campaign, notice the way Howard approached the following election, including the introduction of the GST.

The fat lady has sung her heart out had her encore and gone to bed, Anna has burnt the bridge and the govt as a whole is very tied I feel.

You don't see any parallel to that situation and the current Qld political one?

The fat lady hasn't sung until Antony Green's computer calls it on election night.

[SurfRail]

15 min peak/off-peak could technically be run to Shorncliffe post Sandgate upgrade. The Alamein Line in Melbourne manages 15 mins off-peak with the last two stations being single track.

I expect the crew changes and stabling occur at Camberwell based on my observations.  Not quite the same kettle of fish to anywhere up here, as there you have what is effectively a "dock" platform for the Alamein shuttles (not to mention a grade separated junction). 

BrizCommuter was referring to the other end of the line.
http://www.vicsig.net/index.php?page=infrastructure&interlocking=Ashburton

It's easy when you only need to reverse the train. 

The example would only be pertinent to Shorncliffe if Northgate was a crew-change and stabling location.

[Derwan]

There are fewer passengers alighting at Bindha per day than the number of trains passing through in a single direction.  Not worth keeping it, and there is a time (and olfactory) advantage in eliminating it.

The last survey was probably done when the Golden Circle entrance was closed. They've just built new stairs and a path so that it could reopen. I just saw about 8 people walking from a single train on the opposite side of Golden Circle. I think there is still use for the station.

[SurfRail]

There are fewer passengers alighting at Bindha per day than the number of trains passing through in a single direction.  Not worth keeping it, and there is a time (and olfactory) advantage in eliminating it.

The last survey was probably done when the Golden Circle entrance was closed. They've just built new stairs and a path so that it could reopen. I just saw about 8 people walking from a single train on the opposite side of Golden Circle. I think there is still use for the station.

That couldn't be accommodated by shuttling the fairly limited number of workers from Banyo or Northgate and thereby improving the journey time for people who don't can fruit for a living?

[#Metro]

That couldn't be accommodated by shuttling the fairly limited number of workers from Banyo or Northgate and thereby improving the journey time for people who don't can fruit for a living?

I would look at the question this way.

1. Is rail a patronage or a coverage service. I would argue that it should be a patronage service since it forms part of the CFN- we want speed, frequency and decent scope of hours. This line isn't Rosewood line, which obviously has welfare function.

2. If we stop here, we might use up 2 minutes (acceleration, deceleration and dwell times). 8 people will catch the service but if we
express past the station, we save some time- will that attract more than 8 people? Will the 8 people who use the service now go to car or
change to other public transport. We are giving a 2 minute saving to everybody on the train - which might be 200 - 500 pax.

If 8 people have to drive to work by car- is that a big loss compared to the the 2 minutes of time saved by all services at all hours all day.

[somebody]

I think it might.  Over 3000 people use the Shorncliffe line beyond Bindha in each peak (OTOH).  Saving let's say 1.5 minutes only needs to increase this by 0.3% to equal 9 pax lost at Bindha.  Perhaps the 9 pax number has increased, but how high?  Otherwise this discussion is a bit in the dark.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Depends on how you look at it. Half glass full or half glass empty. Its not just for Golden Circle workers anymore. They've also upgraded it to allow for easier access to the Northlink Place workers. Also when you think about it people that live nearby have 15 min frequency by combining Bindha and Virginia together. Bindha gets nothing late at night just because of its location but the same can somewhat be said for Virginia too.

[SurfRail]

Its about 30-45sec per stop. Cut out Bindha and I doubt QR would even bother to change the timetable.
http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/railservices/city/documents/queensland-rail_passenger-load-survey-2011-q3_v1.0.pdf

Looking at the numbers, yeah Bindha is not great, but there are worse, especially past Ipswich.

Regards
Shane

There are also cleaning, maintenance, servicing, outgoings and other costs.  The station might just be a concrete slab with a bridge, but it doesn't just sit there inert - ticket machine, lighting, etc.  Limited resources yes, but they can be funnelled elsewhere.  Better that than persist with this idiotic pricing path for the next 2 years.

[mufreight]

A nitpick about 30 to 45 seconds and perhaps 10 cents while we have a padding of better than 7minutes on the Ipswich line timetables and millions of dollars wasted on gold plated station facilities to meet politicial objectives that could be better expended on services and operating infrastructure improvements to improve the level of the services provided.

[SurfRail]

A nitpick about 30 to 45 seconds and perhaps 10 cents while we have a padding of better than 7minutes on the Ipswich line timetables and millions of dollars wasted on gold plated station facilities to meet politicial objectives that could be better expended on services and operating infrastructure improvements to improve the level of the services provided.

Jeez.

It all adds up!

[O_128]

headways interest me , I got a train from Cleveland to the city this morning. as soon as the train stopped at thornside the cleveland train left within 5 seconds.

[somebody]

headways interest me , I got a train from Cleveland to the city this morning. as soon as the train stopped at thornside the cleveland train left within 5 seconds.

Probably your train was running late, so the O/B train was waiting eagerly.

Doesn't have to be by much with the precision cross there.

[ozbob]

Media release 28 May 2012

SEQ: Call to extend 15 minute Ferny Grove line frequency to weekends and evenings

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for the weekend and evening services on the Ferny Grove line to be upgraded with the daytime services.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"While the weekday day train frequency increase is welcome and sure to reduce traffic congestion in the area, it will do nothing to help weekend traffic congestion.  Further, the lack of increase in evening services makes it significantly more difficult to rely on public transport."

"There is little reason why rail users should have to put up with significantly poorer services than users of BUZ routes. It should also be noted that the proportionate increase in BUZ services was higher for evenings and highest for Sundays, than the overall increase(1).  Of course, the base is lower but figures that aren't proportionate have not been released."

"Traffic congestion reduction will help drive reduced car ownership and better land use (2)."

"Bus services can achieve 15 minute weekend and evening frequencies, there is no reason why train services cannot except for the will to do so."

"It is presumed that the additional Ferny Grove rail services will run through on the southern line and in so doing extend the benefit of frequency improvements to more areas. Extending the  frequency improvements to weekends and evenings similar to the rail service frequency between Darra and Northgate will make the services much more attractive and result in better operating returns."

References:

1. http://www.thredbo.itls.usyd.edu.au/downloads/thredbo10_papers/thredbo10-themeA-Warren.pdf

2. http://www.vtpi.org/cong_relief.pdf page 11

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommter thinks that a press release about when we will actually see the 15min Ferny Grove Line timetable wouldn't go amiss. TransLink's failure to deliver the phase 2 timetables at both the opening of the duplication, and by the end of the 2011/12 financial year (as per their own network plan) is extremely disappointing.

[ozbob]

BrizCommter thinks that a press release about when we will actually see the 15min Ferny Grove Line timetable wouldn't go amiss. TransLink's failure to deliver the phase 2 timetables at both the opening of the duplication, and by the end of the 2011/12 financial year (as per their own network plan) is extremely disappointing.

Ozbob thinks that the Ferny Grove upgrades are not that far away  .  Phase 2?  No idea. 

[somebody]

"Traffic congestion reduction will help drive reduced car ownership..."

I don't very many would have no car by choice, regardless of PT. But I wonder how many would go from 2 to 1?

Personally we will probably always have two (although currently in UAE one is fine due to Metro and travel arrangements). But back home we would have a general car for driving around, commuting if need be and a 4x4 for camping, boating etc.

Quite a number of households will go from 2 to 1.

I've had for a number of years no car by choice.

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommter thinks that a press release about when we will actually see the 15min Ferny Grove Line timetable wouldn't go amiss. TransLink's failure to deliver the phase 2 timetables at both the opening of the duplication, and by the end of the 2011/12 financial year (as per their own network plan) is extremely disappointing.

Ozbob thinks that the Ferny Grove upgrades are not that far away  .  Phase 2?  No idea.

So many Ferny Grove Line stations may end up with a better daytime off-peak service (15 mins gaps) than peak service (up to 23min gaps)?