Phase out paper single tickets?

[ozbob]

Assuming that go card top-up accessibility improves, eg. EFTPOS top-ups, then really the only remaining obstacle is the lack of pre-loaded go cards on buses?

BT will probably resist that.  Although with paper single ticket sales they are probably going to have more cash issues anyway.

If you recall, limited use go cards were ruled out as being too expensive?  ( http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/go-card-backdown-paper-tickets-to-stay-20101028-175ny.html ) So probably not an option.

[techblitz]

whats this thread aimed at.....removing paper tickets from the entire network (bus,ferry,trains) or just buses only?

[minbrisbane]

It would have to be the whole network, as it's all completely integrated. 

[Golliwog]

whats this thread aimed at.....removing paper tickets from the entire network (bus,ferry,trains) or just buses only?

Whole network, but buses are the more difficult part. Railway stations (I believe) all have either a ticket office, or a go card top-up machine (could be wrong, but even if they don't it's not a hard thing to roll out to all stations as the vast majority should have this) where go cards can be bought from. CityCat's have 3 personnel: a deck hand, a driver and a ticket seller. Not difficult to equip with the ability to sell go cards, and tickets can be sold in motion.

Buses are where you have the issue, as you only have the driver, and you also have thousands of buses to cover.

[Arnz]

Stations between Cooroy and Gympie North are unattended and only has 2 go card readers (no ticket machine).  That could probably be sorted by contracting nearby retailers to sell go cards, though Traveston will obviously be a bit difficult seeing that is in the middle of nowhere with 1-2 passengers a day.

[ozbob]

The Melbourne ' myki only ' experiment seems to gathering momentum.  Regional buses in Victoria have now gone myki only.

Are there any more thoughts on removing paper tickets?

I inquired about regional buses in Victoria and myki arrangements ...

Response ..

=========

Twitter

myki mate  ‏@mykimate 1h

@danielbowen @Robert_Dow myki mates are selling starter packs. Bus drivers in Seymour, Bendigo & Ballarat are selling/topping up $0.00 mykis

[somebody]

Manned Ticket offices are limited, top up machines are fine but not all stations have them. If single tickets were phased out for trains, Joe blog can no longer just turn up to a station and go. They will need to have a Go-card, why is this different to a bus?

No need for buses to sell tickets at all or top up, hanging on to the past here. Top-up and checks should be able to be done from a mobile phone and internet plus install machines in suitable higher traffic areas.

Manned ticket offices aren't that limited.  Most stations have them at least some of the time.  But why should you be able to buy a paper ticket from the ticket office?  They should only sell go cards instead, and the same for ferries.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Manned Ticket offices are limited, top up machines are fine but not all stations have them. If single tickets were phased out for trains, Joe blog can no longer just turn up to a station and go. They will need to have a Go-card, why is this different to a bus?

No need for buses to sell tickets at all or top up, hanging on to the past here. Top-up and checks should be able to be done from a mobile phone and internet plus install machines in suitable higher traffic areas.

Manned ticket offices aren't that limited.

Actually depending on the day/time/rosters they are.

[somebody]

Manned ticket offices aren't that limited.

Actually depending on the day/time/rosters they are.

I guess it depends on your interpretation there.

Milton: Monday - Friday: 6.05am to 6.00pm
Auchenflower: Monday - Friday: 6.05am to 6.05pm
Toowong: Monday - Friday: 6.05am to 6.15pm
  Saturday & Sunday: 7.30am to 2.30pm
Taringa: Monday - Friday: 6.00am to 6.15pm
Indro: Monday - Friday: 5.30am to 6.15pm
  Saturday & Sunday: 7.30am to 2.30pm
Toombul: Monday: 6.30am to 5.30pm
  Tuesday - Friday: 6.05am to 7.00pm
  Saturday: 9.00am to 4.00pm
Northgate: Monday - Thursday: 4.45am to 12.20am
  Friday: 4.45am to 1.20am
  Saturday: 4.15am to 1.20am
  Sunday / Public Holidays: 4.15am to 11.45pm
Petrie: 24 hours
   Open public holidays.
Caboolture: 24 hours
  Open public holidays.

Those are some of the higher patronage stations.

Source: http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/AllStations/Pages/AllStations.aspx

[HappyTrainGuy]

As I said before. Depending on the day, the time and staff rosters they can be closed. Some of the stations you listed have multiple staff or perminate based staff. The majority of railway stations on the network don't and usually have staff that transfer between stations depending on their assigned roster. Strathpine is supposed to be open from 5.30am to 10pm but there are times when I rock up and its closed. Just because they list the times doesn't mean they will be manned from open to close but during those times they will most likely be manned.
And FYI, Petrie is not manned with customer staff 24 hours a day.

[somebody]

Why a decade?  There's only a few relatively minor steps that need to be made.

[somebody]

And FYI, Petrie is not manned with customer staff 24 hours a day.

I thought that was odd too, but that's what the QR website said.

[ozbob]

For interest ...

==========

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 6m

PT fact of the day: Melbourne Sale & top up of myki cards to commence on Metropolitan Buses from 27 May --> http://www.venturabus.com.au/cms/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Copy-of-DOC-13-103228-Staff-Advisory-2013-19-Sale-and-top-up-of-myki-cards-to-commence-on-Metropolitan-Buses.pdf ... #ptfact

[somebody]

For interest ...

==========

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 6m

PT fact of the day: Melbourne Sale & top up of myki cards to commence on Metropolitan Buses from 27 May --> http://www.venturabus.com.au/cms/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Copy-of-DOC-13-103228-Staff-Advisory-2013-19-Sale-and-top-up-of-myki-cards-to-commence-on-Metropolitan-Buses.pdf ... #ptfact

Sales they've been doing for ages.  It's the top ups their adding, if the union doesn't stop it.

[ozbob]

Media release 18th June 2013



SEQ: Time for paper to go?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said it is time to consider the removal of the remaining paper single tickets on public transport in south-east Queensland.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The cost of single paper ticket fares relative to the go card is excessive.  It is in the best interests of all public transport users to move to a go card, even if they are not doing 9 journeys or more a week.

"By moving to a go card they assist in improving considerably running times for buses. The data generated by the go card system also assists in more focussed public transport planning.

"Paper tickets are at least 30% dearer for the equivalent go card trip (1,2).  There is a time limit on paper single tickets.  For passengers travelling through 10 zones or less this time period is 2 hours from time of purchase,  travelling 11 zones or more 3 hours 30 minutes (3).  The fact there are time limits on the paper tickets is not well understood by many users and could lead to a fare evasion offence in ignorance."

"Off peak discounts, presently at 20%, are only available to go card users.

"Go card users can transfer up three times within one hour for each transfer, this can make travel even more affordable.

"There is little justification to continue a costly duplicate ticketing system.  To allow the withdrawal of paper single tickets, pre-loaded go cards should be available onboard all non-prepaid buses, Brisbane Transport and all other operators. Go cards can already be purchased on the CityCats."

"Bus drivers can also contribute significantly by promoting go card on board the buses as an alternate to costly paper single tickets.  Give the bus drivers educational material to guide new users."

"As go card penetration approaches 100% the number of go card sales on buses will be a lot less than paper tickets.  The money saved by scrapping the paper ticket system together with improved bus running make this final ticketing move essential."

"Melbourne has moved successfully to a myki only ticketing environment."

References:

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5149.0

2. http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card

3. http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/other-tickets/paper-tickets

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Transport for London --> Going cashless on TfL's bus services

[Gazza]

Where do you get fined $100 for failing to touch off?

[James]

- Failure to tag off incurs a significant fine, at least $100. (again others do it and works).

This is a bad idea. I occasionally make failed touch offs when I am in a rush to make a connection (for example, when my apparently connecting BCC bus is about to leave just as my train pulls in), there shouldn't be a $100 fine. $15 for adults/$7.50 in all cases should cover most trips aside from those beyond Nambour (services north of Cooroy I personally think should be removed from TransLink's responsibility, but I digress).

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 7s

Petition: Sell go cards rather than paper tickets on BT buses --> http://www.epetitions.brisbane.qld.gov.au/petition/signatures/pid/125 ... #qldpol

[ozbob]

London Reconnections --> Ending Cash Fares On The Buses: Does Daniels Dream of Electric Beeps?

[ozbob]

Spent a few days in Melbourne recently, home of the myki and NO paper tickets.  Didn't notice any grief about not having paper tickets ... nil, none, zero ...

[SurfRail]

Same here.  I certainly didn't notice any generalised angst about the lack of paper tickets anywhere, and this was after travelling by bus train and tram for a few days.

My parents decided to take a cab into town to get somewhere in a hurry before it closed, which was cheaper than the cost of buying mykis, but they had no need for PT other than that - our digs were at Southbank and the CBD was entirely walkable, and we needed to get out to the relatives' place in the Yarra Ranges hence the need for a rental anyway.  If we didn't have the rental or have a need to travel repeatedly into the far eastern suburbs, they would happily have travelled by tram around the place.

[Set in train]

I agree Surf and Bob, get rid of paper tickets in Qld. Increase the availability of stock and stockists however.

[ozbob]

^ any loss of revenue will be off set by reduced ticketing costs ...

Yes, improved go card availability and top up is being looked at. Once that is done, I expect paper to be removed ..

[STB]

Paper tickets was the main reason the route 250 service I caught ran nearly 15mins late yesterday.  I counted roughly a 60% paper ticket uptake with the majority being families and high school kids buying paper tickets.  Very frustrating and I nearly missed my connection.

[Set in train]

Paper tickets was the main reason the route 250 service I caught ran nearly 15mins late yesterday.  I counted roughly a 60% paper ticket uptake with the majority being families and high school kids buying paper tickets.  Very frustrating and I nearly missed my connection.

This is a regular occurrence of the 250 when I have used it, peak and off peak. There is one run of it that drivers dread, the PM school time where paper ticket requests are through the roof.

Bob, nice to read about the changes ahead when more stockists and top ups are fixed.

[somebody]

What's the imperative for more ticket sellers?  Is that only in outer areas?  There's enough places which sell a go card around Indro and you can get it in the mail if you like.

[ozbob]

Hopeful that once this is finalised, the path will be clear Simon ..

http://translink.com.au/about-translink/reporting-and-publications/media-releases/release/645

Tender for new go card technology

Thursday 11 April 2013

The State Government will go out to tender for new technology to make it easier for Queenslanders to top up their go cards.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said the government would be seeking an expression of interest to expand the existing network of go card retailers.

"I believe the technology is now available to allow go cards to be topped up through existing electronic payment methods," Mr Emerson said.

"We will go out to tender for a next generation retail contract that could potentially see go cards integrated with supermarkets, grocery chains, petrol stations, newsagents or additional convenience stores.

"Availability of go cards facilities is one of the biggest issues people raise with me and this would deliver more options to purchase, top-up, check their balance or change expiry dates."

go cards are currently available at more than 580 locations, however under the contract there are significant costs in installing and operating current retail-based go card top-up machines.

Mr Emerson said there was demand for these facilities from newsagents and retailers, however the cost was restricting the expansion of the network.

"This first step would also look to resolve compatibility and security issues with integrating different technology," he said.

"It's an attractive proposition with the commercial benefit to retailers of additional foot traffic generated by more than 40,000 go card top-ups daily."

A request for expression of interest is expected to be released in the coming weeks, with submissions following soon after.

For more information, visit translink.com.au or phone 13 12 30, anytime.

[STB]

What's the imperative for more ticket sellers?  Is that only in outer areas?  There's enough places which sell a go card around Indro and you can get it in the mail if you like.

If people are still paying for paper tickets, somethings not quite right, don't you think?  Distribution is one of those issues, and in the Redlands there does need to be more outlets available for top ups and purchases.

Other things needed is more education to get awareness and some behavioural tactics to convince people to take up the Go Card, where I'm sure there are people out there who are still wary of getting one either through a fear of technology, through to a fear of losing the Go Card, through to not trusting one's kids of carrying such a large amount of money on a card, through to people not trusting the technology (fear that it will overcharge them, not work, fail on them etc - and it does happen although I do think the reporting of the technical issues is a bit overblown - take a look at some of the anti TL and anti Go Card pages on Facebook as examples).

Overall though, paper needs to be pulled, it's as simple as that.  The technical issues will always be there (even with paper tickets there were human and technical issues), the main thing is that the process to deal with those technical issues is solid, and the processes to deal with the human issues is solid as well, which can come through ongoing education and solid training for bus drivers to pick up little things like people trying to touch the card incorrectly, through to touching the card too early when they are wanting to top up.

[somebody]

Overall though, paper needs to be pulled, it's as simple as that.

i think that's the end of the story.

The technical issues will always be there (even with paper tickets there were human and technical issues),

Indeed.  I got overcharged for a paper ticket on a 520 in Sydney I think around Xmas.

[Set in train]

"pull the paper" - let's coin a phrase similar.

Tourist routes on the Gold Coast (guess SC also) suffer from paper ticket frenzy.

On a coffee break but when have more time, will scan and upload the opinion piece in yesterday's GCB and response today. Editorial also on the matter.

[techblitz]

Anyone using the bus network today?
The amount of paper tickets being sold is ridiculous.
555 corridor seems to be getting hammered by non gocard holders...oh and lets not forget the occasional 5 dollar gocard topper upper

[STB]

"pull the paper" - let's coin a phrase similar.

Tourist routes on the Gold Coast (guess SC also) suffer from paper ticket frenzy.

On a coffee break but when have more time, will scan and upload the opinion piece in yesterday's GCB and response today. Editorial also on the matter.

I'm happy with the phrase "Pull The Paper".  Combined with an education campaign on why paper should be pulled and how to use and where to buy Go Cards, while pressuring the State Government to get the next contract right with Cubic and ensure that there can be a widespread implementation of Go Card retailers, including Coles, Woolworths and the like.

Ozbob, worthwhile for a RBOT campaign to "Pull The Paper"?

[ozbob]

No need, been raised a number of times ... 

It is a matter of waiting I expect for the sorting of distribution and top up as indicated last April by Minister and TransLink.

[somebody]

It is a matter of waiting I expect for the sorting of distribution and top up as indicated last April by Minister and TransLink.

I don't see where the problem  with the distribution and top up is, except for go cards not being sold on buses.

[ozbob]

You might not, I don't either really.  TransLink and Government do.  Hopefully the increase in distribution and top-up is not that far away now.

TransLink is rather risk averse as we all know ... 

Up to me, I would have pulled paper in 2010 as planned!   

[Stillwater]

Story told today in one of the local papers -- from the perspective of a bus traveller who observed tourists using a bus.  The observer noted a young couple with two children (visitors, according to the conversation with the bus driver).  They wanted to travel from Noosa Junction to Noosaville (Gympie Tce), a distance of about 4km as the bus travels.  They paid paper ticket fares, reducing the young mother making the payment to tears.  The bus driver noted her distress and suggested things would be cheaper with Go-Card.  She inquired what that was and was told they could be bought at 'almost every newsagent'.

There are hundreds of thousands of visitors who come to the Sunshine Coast for whom bus travel is a convenient and cost-effective way to get around and see the sights such as Underwater World, Noosa Beach etc, even the eating precincts and Maroochydore Beach.

They don't have to hire a car.  Our observer said the family in question worked out they could have caught a cab for the cost of the bus fare.  It is enough to reduce anyone to tears.

Translink have got to make a better effort to inform people of Go-Card.  How about working through organisations such as Destinations Sunshine Coast and Tourism Noosa to write or email a message to managers of accommodation houses with details of Go-Card travel and where people can buy e-tickets.  It might make a big difference to patronage on their Sunny Coast buses.

[ozbob]

Fares in SEQ are a major embarrassment. Ripoff paper fares, go card not far behind. Lack of family/group ticketing ..

Crikey, Melbourne has pulled paper, flog myki's ( = go card ) on the buses fulls and concessions ... life goes on.

Every now and then the media beat up one of these sad tales of a mum and several kids being done over by the obscene fares paper singles particularly in SEQ.  More and more people vow to avoid PT, word travels widely that SEQ / Brisbane is a major rip-off ... the circle continues ..

IT.  IS.  NOT.  ROCKET.  SCIENCE.

[#Metro]

Crikey, Melbourne has pulled paper, flog myki's ( = go card ) on the buses fulls and concessions ... life goes on.

Can't. Queenslanders won't stop using paper because Queensland starts with 'Q' and Melbourne starts with 'M'.
There is a possibility that it might work only if we change the name of the State from Queensland to Mueensland.

Any Australian or international evidence to the contrary does not apply here because 'we're different'.

[STB]

Is there any word on the grapevine that anyone in Government is wanting to remove paper tickets?  Or is it just silence, things are perfectly fine as they are, we're not going to change anything type mindset happening?