Proposal: 12 minute cycles for Merivale bridge routes in peak hour

[SurfRail]

Can see what you mean, but at the same time you never know how much a phonecall costs until you make it.

If it's based on time, then you pay for the time you use. 

If fares are based on distance, I have no idea how far I have travelled and no ready means of checking it against whatever the system determines as the relevant distance.  I then get ot have fun arguments over the adjustment line about how far I have actually gone.

Fare zones make this whole issue redundant - as long as we don't have the Melbourne issue with only 2 for the whole metropolitan system, they are granular enough to still be largely equitable.

[Golliwog]

And if it's an 'as the crow flies' distance, you can get it from Google Maps or Nearmap. Besides, once you've done a trip or 2, you should know most of the prices you would be charged, as 9/10 times you'd be making the same trip for work etc, or once you've done a few, you could come up with a decent estimate of how much a trip would cost you.

Though, while I would support a system like this, you'd have to sort out some issues. Like multiple legs in the same journey. Currently, I could catch the 362 from outside my house over to Keperra Station, catch the FG train to the city, then catch the 385 out to The Gap, then catch the 362 back to outside my hosue again. On the current system, so long as each transfer was less than an hour that would be one 3 zone fare. However, if you went to $/km charging, you'd have to sort out something weird. If you did point to point for each trip, then you'd end up with something much higher than with the zonal (providing the $/km price was based roughly on the zonal fares) as it would effectively be 2 3 zone fares to the city and back, distance wise. Or if it was just based on the start and end point of the overall journey, that would cost me nothing as I would have hopped on and off at the same stop on the 362. Not saying I'm against it, just that you need to work out how to charge for trips like that.

[SurfRail]

I just don't see any actual advantage in moving to a distance based system, at all.

[somebody]

I just don't see any actual advantage in moving to a distance based system, at all.

No?  What about people doing long journeys at right angles to the direction to the Brisbane GPO, particularly on the Gold Coast.  Also through town journeys.  I'd have to say, that with Brisbane's land use, I could accept that there is an argument that it might be better in terms of predictability to have the current zonal system, but with the bus/train zone discrepancies sorted out, and that would be a better trade than improving the equitability of the system by getting rid of zones.

[#Metro]

I just don't see any actual advantage in moving to a distance based system, at all.

I agree. Sydney had this absolutely awful fare stage system, with different stages for each route every 500 - 800 meters or so, I don't want to see that here. There would also be transition costs as well - is the benefit really that big?

[SurfRail]

I just don't see any actual advantage in moving to a distance based system, at all.

No?  What about people doing long journeys at right angles to the direction to the Brisbane GPO, particularly on the Gold Coast.  Also through town journeys.  I'd have to say, that with Brisbane's land use, I could accept that there is an argument that it might be better in terms of predictability to have the current zonal system, but with the bus/train zone discrepancies sorted out, and that would be a better trade than improving the equitability of the system by getting rid of zones.

There are no "long" east-west journeys on the Gold or Sunshine Coasts that don't already traverse fare boundaries which I can actually think of.  It is not an issue.

In any event, Brisbane commuters have the advantage of travelling from Garden City to Chermside and paying no more than a 3 zone fare, so nyuck-nyuck.  It all evens out.

Still not convinced as to why distance fares are sensible in any sense.

Will it bring in extra revenue?  Probably not, because it will have to be grandfathered to stop most people's travel costs from increasing dramatically.  Will it be easier to administer at the back end and easier to understand for the punters?  No.  Will it cost money to make the changw?  Yes.  Is community sentiment in favour of it?  No - community sentiment is that travel is too expensive, which is probably a reasonable view, but that is not an artefact of the zonal system but of the fare levels.

[SurfRail]

Advantage is simple and simpler that zonal, you pay for the km to get you from point A to B (using a decreasing rate formula), no boundries, no am I in this zone going to that zone what ever.

But it is not simpler.  Currently, every stop and station on the network has a fixed "value" based on the fare zone it appears in.  What you are proposing requires there to be a floating system which needs to determine the basis for calculating the fare as well as actually calculating the fare, where currently the system only need to work out the fare using a fixed scale.  This involves more back end work and increases the likelihood of stuff-ups.

Assuming you still have paper tickets, how do you calculate and issue those from a driver's console/AVVM?  Are you proposing that every stop in the system be loaded and selectable by drivers/commuters?  How does a Surfside driver issue a ticket to somewhere in Logan when they only have the stops on their current run programmed in?

What advantage does this actually give commuters/TTA/anybody?  I still can't see it.

[#Metro]

This is what I mean by overcooking / perfectionism.

It is OK to have some level of inefficiency, waste, imperfectness.

Some things are just not worth chasing!

But it is not simpler.  Currently, every stop and station on the network has a fixed "value" based on the fare zone it appears in.  What you are proposing requires there to be a floating system which needs to determine the basis for calculating the fare as well as actually calculating the fare, where currently the system only need to work out the fare using a fixed scale.  This involves more back end work and increases the likelihood of stuff-ups.

Assuming you still have paper tickets, how do you calculate and issue those from a driver's console/AVVM?  Are you proposing that every stop in the system be loaded and selectable by drivers/commuters?  How does a Surfside driver issue a ticket to somewhere in Logan when they only have the stops on their current run programmed in?

What advantage does this actually give commuters/TTA/anybody?  I still can't see it.

Exactly. I want to go to Ipswich then via the CBD to Caboolture. How much will that cost?
Should I get out a ruler? A map? Log onto a site?

The zone system is not sufficiently problematic to warrant an intervention or a change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Don't touch the fares
Don't touch the zones
LEAVE IT ALONE

[#Metro]

* With the sole exception being the Ekka, of course.

[O_128]

This is what I mean by overcooking / perfectionism.

It is OK to have some level of inefficiency, waste, imperfectness.

Some things are just not worth chasing!

But it is not simpler.  Currently, every stop and station on the network has a fixed "value" based on the fare zone it appears in.  What you are proposing requires there to be a floating system which needs to determine the basis for calculating the fare as well as actually calculating the fare, where currently the system only need to work out the fare using a fixed scale.  This involves more back end work and increases the likelihood of stuff-ups.

Assuming you still have paper tickets, how do you calculate and issue those from a driver's console/AVVM?  Are you proposing that every stop in the system be loaded and selectable by drivers/commuters?  How does a Surfside driver issue a ticket to somewhere in Logan when they only have the stops on their current run programmed in?

What advantage does this actually give commuters/TTA/anybody?  I still can't see it.

Exactly. I want to go to Ipswich then via the CBD to Caboolture. How much will that cost?
Should I get out a ruler? A map? Log onto a site?

The zone system is not sufficiently problematic to warrant an intervention or a change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Don't touch the fares
Don't touch the zones
LEAVE IT ALONE

One exception, I would merge zones 1 and 2

[Mr X]

Though think about this.
Someone travelling from Southside (zone 2) to somewhere on the Northside (zone 2) via the City (zone 1) pays only two zone fare.
Someone travelling on Gold Coast or Sunshine Coast from say zone 15 to 13 north-south has to pay for three zones, yet it could be the same or shorter distance as the person in Brisbane.



Could we have a system where instead of the zones radiating out from the CBD, they start at the border? So zone 1 (old zone 18) to zone 18 (old zone 1) to zone 41 (Gympie North)? Would be a pain for those trying to figure out the fare from zone 13 to zone 31 offpeak and the charts would be massive, but it's an idea that's fair for the whole region not Brisbane. West would be hard to figure out, rule the zones horizontally?

[somebody]

Will it bring in extra revenue?  Probably not, because it will have to be grandfathered to stop most people's travel costs from increasing dramatically. 

Do that and you undo any reason to implement such a system.

Good thing that the architects of the new fare policy weren't thinking that way, something gotten right in Qld.

"For the love of God, no" to that type of thinking.  It probably un-did Sydney's T-Card.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I don't see why a distance fare calculation can't work if it was based on the GPS touch on and touch off as the crow flies. If it was calculated for example by 10c per each 1km travelled then no one could winge about how much they pay as its based on a flat fare that applies to everyone using the entire system. Be it from Nerang to Central or from your house to the shops down the road on the Sunshine Coast. Although transfers could be a potential issue.