North West Transport Corridor (Trouts Road Corridor)

[Stillwater]

Let's hope that Queensland Labor doesn't produce yet another glossy brochure (Connecting SEQ 2061?) where all the work is scheduled to occur in the last five years, predicated on the feds meeting all the costs.

[ozbob]

Maybe commemorative 'connecting SEQ boomerangs' might be the go Mr Stillwater.

Each time the red mob move back into George St we could stand on the QUT CityCat ferry terminal and with a mighty throw collectively launch the boomerangs out over the majestic Brisbane river.  When the boomerangs exhaust their spin and return to shore  we would exclaim ' Connecting SEQ is back, just like a boomerang!'

When the blue mob takes their turn, we form up on the corner of Alice and George St (adjacent to the City Loop Stop) and put on batman capes.  We then run down George St screaming ' BaT is not an acronym, it's a bus & train tunnel! '.

[Stillwater]

Ah yess .... the good old Integrated Regional Transport Plan

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/beating-the-rat-race-at-160kmh-20100830-1479g.html

The pages burn well in the wood heater on a chilly night.  Thanks Anna B.

[colinw]

Given the attitude of the people of this State, articulating any kind of vision is a grievous error.

[petey3801]

Given the attitude of the people of this State, articulating any kind of vision is a grievous error.

And then wonder why pollies only bother thinking 3 years ahead.

[Jonno]

Which is why we need to start with separated bike lanes and a redesign bus network in bus lanes!!

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

21st April 2016

Trains NOT Lanes: NO to Trouts Rd Motorway!

Greetings

RAIL Back on Track is opposed to a motorway through Everton Park, McDowall and Aspley along the Trouts Road corridor, as described in a recent Courier-Mail article. If the Department of Transport and Main roads cares about capacity, speed and decongestion, a motorway is the last thing they should put in that corridor.

The Trouts Road Corridor (also known as the North West Transport Corridor) will be absolutely essential in unblocking the Queensland Rail network. It must be exclusively reserved for a regional high-speed rail service to the Sunshine Coast, and improved local rail service to Everton Park, McDowall and Aspley.

A high-speed rail line to the Sunshine Coast would have at least  10 times the capacity of a comparable motorway lane. (Rail - 12 000 passengers/hour, Road - 1200 - 1500 passengers/hour). Reaching speeds of 160 km/hour or more, it would arrive in Noosa in approximately one hour. It would be faster than what cars could legally travel at on a motorway. It would benefit Bruce Highway motorists by taking people and their cars off the Bruce Highway. A car performing a similar trip would take half an hour or more to reach Noosa in good, non-congested conditions.

We recognise the northwestern suburbs as a public transport black hole area. Brisbane City Council's bus services are totally inadequate in that area. A railway line would allow excellent bus connections to new local QR rail services. Potential new QR train stations could be located at Everton Park (Stafford Rd), McDowall (Hamilton Road) and Aspley (Albany Creek Road).

Griffith University Transport Expert Professor Matthew Burke is on the money when he says that adding more motorways isn't a real solution. A motorway would simply be too slow, take too long and would not have the capacity or comfort that a high speed rail service to the Sunshine Coast would have.

Trains NOT Lanes!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

Proposal to build alternatives to major highways heading north and south of Brisbane
http://www.couriermail.com.au/goqld/proposal-to-build-alternatives-to-major-highways-heading-north-and-south-of-brisbane/news-story/02b8fcdce4f47cddee1208609ca2ae49

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow now Brisbane, Queensland

Latest: ' Trains NOT Lanes: NO to Trouts Rd Motorway! '

> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=722.msg172957#msg172957 ... #qldpol

[dancingmongoose]

Would it be possible to run similar to the Mandurah line in that there's a highway and the railway runs along the median strip? Would be the only way I'd support a highway there.

[tazzer9]

After looking at the bruce highway, pacific motorway, centenary highway every morning and afternoon, how can anyone even contemplate another motorway.  Its a moving car park everyday.  Often only a small incident outside of peak will bring them to a standstill.  People use PT when its faster than driving, hence the SE busway's popularity.
Look at the USA, massive motorways everywhere, yet still no faster than the near non existent rail services some cities do have. 
But knowing TMR they will do something ridiculously stupid like having it to arterial road standard but with at grade roundabouts every 3 km and then add a monorail so they can say they included public transport.

[Gazza]

I wouldn't care if it were built, so long as it were a PPP, with the rail built at the same time.

[#Metro]

This is the basic plan.

It all goes back to the Wilbur Smith Plan 1965, which was a collaboration between BCC Clem Jones and the Qld Government at that time. Modelled directly on America at the height of the motorway boom.

Most of the roads in the Wilbur Smith Plan have come to pass in one way or another. For example, there is a forerunner of what we would notice today as the AirportLink tunnel.

"Even the Route 20 concept has re-emerged as a future
possibility, but this time as a tunnel solution. (Figure 9)"

PART 2 - HISTORY OF BRISBANE'S MAJOR ARTERIAL ROADS
- A MAIN ROADS PERSPECTIVE



http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/tableoffice/tabledpapers/2011/5311t5272.pdf
QUEENSLAND ROADS Edition No 8 March 2010

They can put cars in a tunnel. But trains?!?!?

[tazzer9]

They can put cars in a tunnel. But trains?!?!?

Trains in a tunnel,  get out of here.  This is Queensland, railway tunnels are more of a NSW thing.   We do bus tunnels and thats about it.

[Jonno]

Would it be possible to run similar to the Mandurah line in that there's a highway and the railway runs along the median strip? Would be the only way I'd support a highway there.

Not21st century thinking.  Freeway will just increase congestion and the number of trips by car which cost us 6 times more in subsidies than public transport!

[Stillwater]

What are the state electorates where Trouts Road corridor runs?  We should start planning 'TRAINS NOT LANES' leaflet letterbox drop through these suburbs.  A gathering of RailBOT members should be able to knock it off over 2 weekends -- meet for coffee later.  Frighten the crap out of local members, hit them where it hurts and bring them to their senses.  Pollies are interested in only one thing - the size of their voter base.

[mufreight]

Sounds like a good option, there would be enough RBoT members who would have a printer at home who could each print off 40 or so fliers and 20 members could run off 800 and then letterbox drop an electorate, a couple of weekends and the local Pollies  would start to get worried, three or four weekends and they would be getting concerned which is how all pollies should be.

[tazzer9]

I have a job where I drive around (and often along) the trouts rd corridor.   The store i work for is based at everton park. Trust me, the people in that area do not want a motorway, they do want a rail line.  But its people outside this area that are demanding the motorway.  A rail line doesnt help you if you live in toowong but want to spend a weekend at noosa, but a motorway does.

[Stillwater]

Electorates are Aspley, Stafford, Everton and Ashgrove.  Trouts Road defines the boundary between the Stafford and Everton electorates.

It is an interesting mix of members.  Aspley is held by Tracey Davis (LNP).  Everton is the seat of Tim Mander (LNP), seen in some circles as a future LNP Leader.  Stafford is the electorate of the 'big fish', Dr Anthony Lynham (ALP), while Kate Jones (ALP) holds Ashgrove.

We should do each electorate in turn, flagging our intentions and first asking both parties whether they back rail only in Trouts Road corridor.  If LNP doesn't commitment, letterbox drop the seat of Everton.  If ALP refuses, target Stafford.  Hit the remaining two if both parties wishy-washy in the lead-up to a state election.  Easy.

[#Metro]

I think if that image above is put in a letterbox, it would do more than anything written!

Your NEW SIX LANE MOTORWAY!!



From Google Maps you can see that the A3 finishes exactly at the end of the corridor. Implication is that the A3 would be extended right down into Alderly and feed into Wardell Street/Stafford Road.

[James]

Would it be possible to run similar to the Mandurah line in that there's a highway and the railway runs along the median strip? Would be the only way I'd support a highway there.

I think this is probably the best way forward. 2 lanes each way + 1 track each way (with passing loops at each station).

The area is low-density suburbia and would primarily be an outer ring road like the Gateway. It is suitable for both, just rail is probably more important long-term.

[Derwan]

I'm with DM and James.  No reason why it can't be both.  We have to be realistic.  We'll need more roads as the population grows. But public transport infrastructure growth hasn't kept up with road infrastructure growth.  It needs to be planned in conjunction - not as separate ideas.

Deliver them both as part of one project.  (With the road included, it should be eligible for federal funding.)  Then the people stuck in traffic can watch the thousands of others zoom by on trains and realise that they made the wrong decision to drive.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Another reason why it should be cut and cover to save on space.

[tazzer9]

The current corridor certainly isnt wide enough for a two lane motorway and a rail line.   If we are going to do a ring road of some sorts, it should be further west, not through inner suburbia.   On another note, that stafford road tunnel is desperately needed, even if it just duplicates the road above it.

Another reason why it should be cut and cover to save on space.

The cut and cover tunnel idea is worth looking at, but it would mean extra costs and depending on if the trains run in the tunnel, may limit their speed.

[Jonno]

The single and only reason for not having a freeway is that it just increases congestion which costs us easily 6 times the subsidy of public transport.  Why on gods earth would we build more freeways! 

[tazzer9]

Doesnt the mandurah line have NO walk up patronage.   Walk up patronage should be the first thing considered above any form of bus - rail interchange or kiss and rides.  Having a freeway means even having feeder buses make it difficult. 

The only time having a railway built with a freeway is if it will make very few intermediate stops, runs through fairly underpopulated areas, and the line is designed for speed the patronage comes from beyond the freeway.   

[SurfRail]

^ Which is basically the whole point of Trouts Rd.  The stations are in low density areas and the patronage would mainly be coming from a combination of bus feeders and park and ride.

The most important aspect of the line is to provide a faster run for trains north of Strathpine, so the local walk-up market is not the principal consideration.

[tazzer9]

The trouts corridor route is low density, but far from abandoned.   It could easily be built to accommodate both local services with frequent stops and longer distance express services.   Kind of like how the entire sydney rail network operates.   Adding platforms isnt that expensive if you make them basic.     

The main reason people will use PT over cars is because its cheaper and faster.   There is no point in having a higher speed train that will get them from the city to their station in 15 minutes if they then need to spend 15 minutes on a bus to travel 2km.   

 

[SurfRail]

Given travel times (and the increasingly unreliable nature) of buses to the city that would probably still be an improvement - and if it takes 15min to go only 2 klicks something is very, very wrong, especially when the buses are largely going to be running on cross-town rather than radial routes.

[tazzer9]

Given travel times (and the increasingly unreliable nature) of buses to the city that would probably still be an improvement - and if it takes 15min to go only 2 klicks something is very, very wrong, especially when the buses are largely going to be running on cross-town rather than radial routes.

Literally every single feeder bus ever goes that slowly.   Thats one of the many reasons why the ones that do exist are so underused.   

[ozbob]

Err, Brisbane hasn't got a clue how to operate feeders properly. 

They run coverage routes disguised as feeders.  Other jurisdictions do it just fine.

It is time the bus network was properly sorted for Brisbane.   

[Jonno]

The trouts corridor route is low density, but far from abandoned.   It could easily be built to accommodate both local services with frequent stops and longer distance express services.   Kind of like how the entire sydney rail network operates.   Adding platforms isnt that expensive if you make them basic.     

The main reason people will use PT over cars is because its cheaper and faster.   There is no point in having a higher speed train that will get them from the city to their station in 15 minutes if they then need to spend 15 minutes on a bus to travel 2km.   

 

It may be low density today but the line tself would ingite TOD redevelopment along the line.

[#Metro]

It may be low density today but the line tself would ingite TOD redevelopment along the line.

This may be true, and the Queensland Gov't needs to get smarter about zoning etc. They should bargain saying 'If you relax zoning here, we will put a station there'.

Though even with density around the station, a lot of people won't live anywhere near the station due to distance. So there needs to be a Perth approach with the feeder buses. It's just tailoring the approach to the situation on the ground.

[SurfRail]

Given travel times (and the increasingly unreliable nature) of buses to the city that would probably still be an improvement - and if it takes 15min to go only 2 klicks something is very, very wrong, especially when the buses are largely going to be running on cross-town rather than radial routes.

Literally every single feeder bus ever goes that slowly.   Thats one of the many reasons why the ones that do exist are so underused.

They don't if done properly. 

The main reason feeders don't work is because those that are offered are rubbish.  In most cases, you have hourly services from 6-7am to 6-7pm at best (frequently worse), with much lower headways than the railways they connect to, and which are poorly designed.  In the BCC area they actively avoid railways for the most part, and where connections do exist they are suboptimal because of poor layout and the fact it is basically an afterthought.  The only decent interchanges are ones principally used by other operators (eg Sandgate) or ones which TransLink had a hand in specifying (eg Richlands).

On the Gold Coast, several feeder routes outperform many linehaul routes elsewhere because they are intentionally designed to properly connect to trains.  That's what is missing (even for most Gold Coast services) and why the concept fails so often, not because there is anything intrinsically wrong with it.

[Old Northern Road]

Unless a tunnel is built connecting Everton Park to either the Airport Link or the Western Fwy (and hopefully we won't see any new road tunnels built in Brisbane in a long time) there is no point building a road along Trouts Rd as all you are doing is dumping a huge amount of traffic onto some of the most congested roads in Brisbane. Even during off peak Wardell St is a nightmare.

[HappyTrainGuy]

They don't if done properly. 
...

In the BCC area they actively avoid railways for the most part, and where connections do exist they are suboptimal because of poor layout and the fact it is basically an afterthought.  The only decent interchanges are ones principally used by other operators (eg Sandgate) or ones which TransLink had a hand in specifying (eg Richlands).

*cough cough* Geebung. Brand new overpass. Upgraded roads. New access to the station. Interchange built on the northern side. Not a single bus uses it. The 325 stop is still a couple hundred meters away from the station entrance. The hourly 326/327 and the 2 hourly 336/337 (which happens to be one of the best designed feeder routes on Brisbanes northside) stop is on the door step of the main entrance yet they arrive the same time that both trains arrive/depart. Thanks!

[James]

Err, Brisbane hasn't got a clue how to operate feeders p

Err, Brisbane hasn't got a clue how to operate feeders properly. 

They run coverage routes disguised as feeders.  Other jurisdictions do it just fine.

It is time the bus network was properly sorted for Brisbane.   

Forgot to mention that practically every feeder bus has a competing City-bound bus route running at higher frequency. 453 vs. 467, 452 vs. 454 and 100 vs. 101/102/460 says it all. You don't need an ode to concrete to change from a bus to a train, all you need is a bus stop, an accessible environment and a short distance between bus and train.

Trouts Rd will be prime for feeders due to its speed to the CBD and its heavy linehaul capacity.

[newbris]

Electorates are Aspley, Stafford, Everton and Ashgrove. ...

Ashgrove probably isn't directly involved as isn't on the train line alignment....and if a road is built it would either connect to Airport Link on Stafford Rd or to a western tunnel right under Ashgrove to Toowong, rather than a surface road.

[aldonius]

There's a post somewhere on SkyscraperCity that says they were looking at having some interchange between the tunnel and Waterworks Rd. So it does affect Ashgrove.

And before we think too hard about electorates, the entire northside is due for a shakeup in the redistribution (which is to occur before the next election).

[HappyTrainGuy]

Err, Brisbane hasn't got a clue how to operate feeders properly. 

They run coverage routes disguised as feeders.  Other jurisdictions do it just fine.

It is time the bus network was properly sorted for Brisbane.   

Forgot to mention that practically every feeder bus has a competing City-bound bus route running at higher frequency. 453 vs. 467, 452 vs. 454 and 100 vs. 101/102/460 says it all. You don't need an ode to concrete to change from a bus to a train, all you need is a bus stop, an accessible environment and a short distance between bus and train.

Trouts Rd will be prime for feeders due to its speed to the CBD and its heavy linehaul capacity.

RIP Translink network review.

Your proposed feeder routes for brisbanes northside were bloody brilliantly routed.

Now back to regular network planning.


Sad thing is that on Monday its Anzac Day and the 326/327/336/337 all go past multiple rsl's.... So much for providing a public service.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Call for highway through Brisbane's north west to tackle growing traffic congestion

THE RACQ has called for a major highway through Brisbane's north west to be fast-tracked in a bid to solve the city's traffic chaos.

The motoring association wants the North West Transport Corridor (which runs from Everton Park to Carseldine where it links with Gympie Rd) developed as an alternative to ­Gympie Rd.

RACQ executive manager public policy Michael Roth saidit was one of the group's three top priorities, along with second highways to the Gold and Sunshine coasts.

Mr Roth said development of the corridor would necessitate Stafford Rd being widened to six lanes, or a tunnel built, to take ­vehicles to the AirportLink tunnel.

But railway lobby group Rail Back on Track said a road was the last thing the State Government should build there, and called for a rail line to be built instead.

Spokesman Robert Dow said it was "absolutely ­essential" to unblock the Queensland Rail network.

"It must be exclusively ­reserved for a regional high-speed rail service to the Sunshine Coast, and improved local rail service to Everton Park, McDowall and ­Aspley," Mr Dow said.

"New QR train stations could be located at Everton Park (Stafford Rd), McDowall (Hamilton Rd) and Aspley (Albany Creek Rd).

Stafford state Labor MP Dr Anthony Lynham said a freeway was the last thing that should be built there.

Dr Lynham said traffic always multiplied to fill whatever roads were built.

His preferred option initially would be for a bikeway from Bald Bills to the Alderley railway station, where there could be facilities for bike storage, and for riders to shower and change.

"The other options are light rail and heavy rail," Dr Lynham said.

"Public transport options, any day, would beat a freeway up that corridor."

A bikeway could potentially run alongside the rail service.

Dr Lynham said a road or railway was not on any government infrastructure plan, but he believed a bikeway should be on Brisbane City Council's radar.