What would you miss?

[#Metro]

I had to get home late tonight. Around 10:30 pm I caught a BUZ 196 and then I caught a bus down the SE busway. Hardly any waiting time at all.

I thought back to my days when I lived near a rail station (I've moved in the last few months). When this would happen I would often be at the platform, late at night wondering if while I was waiting for 30 minutes I would be approached by some chromer or be accosted.
Then the train would come (finally), and boo hoo if I had to make another change of trains... MORE waiting at Roma Street.

Things are MUCH better now that I live near a busway. I can get whatever BUZ I want and get home at night and not worry about waiting forever on the platform, catching trains with late night weirdos or whatever.

The speed on the busway is very very good. None of this rubbish crawling over tracks after Park Road and stopping everywhere. Which got me thinking- now that South Brisbane station is closed, I don't really miss it. What if it could stay closed.... permanently. We'd save 2 minutes on that station.

Then I thought of other stations- Banoon, or that one just after Beenleigh (Eden's Landing) that no-one ever seems to use. What if they disappeared and the train ran faster? What if we cut Rocklea... this could all add up. Frequent feeder buses could be put on.

While I think that a frequency boost is much preferable to closing stations (a frequency boost saves up to 15 minutes, and on average 7.5 minutes, whereas cutting a station might save 2 minutes of time), I wondered what other stations could be thinned out for a faster train service if we had the guts to do it.

What would you miss??

[somebody]

I'd miss Sth Bris.  That is a useful interchange with the Cultural Centre.

[#Metro]

Foaming fantasy list:

Beenleigh line

Dutton Park - although useful for the hospital, its an awful station sited under a dripping dark bridge, also very close to a busway and Park road, people could catch a bus and then change.

Rocklea - hardly ever used, middle of nowhere

Banoon- build a bus interchange at Coopers Plains and use that.

Holmnview - sorry, not Eden's Landing!

[#Metro]

I'd miss Sth Bris.  That is a useful interchange with the Cultural Centre.

Just a clarification, when I say "what stations would you miss" I actually mean what station's would you let the train miss (i.e not stop at anymore because you'd elect to shut them). A play on words! 

[HappyTrainGuy]

If you lived near a railway station why the hell were you getting there 30 minutes before the train lol?

Bindah can be the first to go on the Shorncliffe line shortly followed by Nudgee along with fixing that tight curve. No stations should be scrapped on the Caboolture/Petrie line but I'd scrap all stations Northgate-Bowen Hills stopping at Eagle Junction on their respective route timetables. Shorncliffe/Gold Coast to take up the slack. Ipswich the same - Exp Darra stopping Indro/Toowong exp Roma Street with Springfield taking up the inner slack.

For the Beenleigh line I'd scrap Rocklea and Sailsbury, realign Marooka-Coopers Plains and chuck in a merged Rocklea/Sailsbury station towards the Sailsbury end maybe even scrap them and move to a feeder bus service. Realign Coopers Plains-Sunnybank, scrap Banoon and Sunnybank and establish a new merged Sunnybank station. Scrap Holmview and Edens Landing. Realign Bethina-Holmview to eliminate those curves and raise the speed. Look at connecting Loganholme to Edens Landing via a road bridge to open up a whole new market. Establish a new Holmview station near the park and throw feeder buses via Holmview/Edens Landing/Loganholme/Beenleigh at it. Cull Beenleigh trains to terminate at the new Holmview station as it would be easier than trying to squeeze more platforms into Beenleigh. Run a shuttle for every second service Holmview-Varsity Lakes to enable 15min frequency. Chuck Beenleigh and the new Holmview station onto the Gold Coast line and scrap Loganlea from the Gold Coast line as its a couple stops on another train. If the Beaudesert spur via Bethina goes ahead then a shuttle could operate to the new Holmview station to connect to City/Gold Coast express services. While it might not be a huge reduction in stops the realignment and merging of stops does increase the overall line speed.

Oh and eat into those fatty deposits.

[Emmie]

Agree, HTG, Bindha really puzzles me on the Shorncliffe line. Nobody ever gets on or off, there are no residents nearby - yet even on the infrequent express trains, we still pull in there. But surely the answer is to convert what is now an industrial wasteland into a TOD, rather than just close it down.

[somebody]

Salisbury would be a radical cut with the Beaudesert rail line possibility.

[SurfRail]

Salisbury would be a radical cut with the Beaudesert rail line possibility.

The existing station is completely inapt for a major interchange - I would suggest closing and amalgamating with Rocklea in the vicinity of where Nyanda used to be.

[somebody]

Salisbury would be a radical cut with the Beaudesert rail line possibility.

The existing station is completely inapt for a major interchange - I would suggest closing and amalgamating with Rocklea in the vicinity of where Nyanda used to be.

Used to be?  Isn't Nyanda there any more?

Seems to be room on the west side of the corridor there.

[colinw]

Salisbury would be a radical cut with the Beaudesert rail line possibility.

The existing station is completely inapt for a major interchange - I would suggest closing and amalgamating with Rocklea in the vicinity of where Nyanda used to be.

Excellent suggestion. Would allow the junction to be redesigned and maybe something done about that curve.

Agree with most of these suggestion.  Over all, I'm in favour of cutting:

1.  Dutton Park (just use the busway from Park Road)
2.  Rocklea & Salisbury (merged to new station at Nyanda).
3.  Banoon & Sunnybank to one new station (and fix that curve!)
4.  Runcorn & Fruitgrove merged.
5.  Holmview

Trinder Park is awfully close to Woodridge as well, but I think it is fairly well used.

[SurfRail]

Salisbury would be a radical cut with the Beaudesert rail line possibility.

The existing station is completely inapt for a major interchange - I would suggest closing and amalgamating with Rocklea in the vicinity of where Nyanda used to be.

Excellent suggestion. Would allow the junction to be redesigned and maybe something done about that curve.

Agree with most of these suggestion.  Over all, I'm in favour of cutting:

1.  Dutton Park (just use the busway from Park Road)
2.  Rocklea & Salisbury (merged to new station at Nyanda).
3.  Banoon & Sunnybank to one new station (and fix that curve!)
4.  Runcorn & Fruitgrove merged.
5.  Holmview

Trinder Park is awfully close to Woodridge as well, but I think it is fairly well used.

I honestly think there should be a tunnel from Runcorn to Banoon via Centro Pinelands. 

Trinder Park - just have massive resumptions and realignment.

[colinw]

Used to be?  Isn't Nyanda there any more?

The old low level Nyanda platform is still there: http://g.co/maps/jxaud

Street view: http://g.co/maps/b7gqr

[Otto]

I remember the white gates that used to be there..

[Cam]

All suggestions above have merit. Something certainly needs to be done on the Beenleigh Line to reduce travel times.

If Rocklea & Salisbury were replaced with a new station near the Nyanda platform or slightly further south, a proper interchange could be built for buses using Beaudesert Rd as well as cross town services. A new station would also become the interchange between the Flagstone, Beenleigh & Gold Coast lines.

As a sweetener for those who use Rocklea station to/from the Brisbane Markets & Sherwood Rd commercial area, a pedestrian bridge should be built from Moorooka towards the southwest to Fairfield Rd & across to Cambridge St to provide better access to Moorooka station.

[colinw]

What about other lines?

Ipswich I think could justifiably lose Ebbw Vale & Gailes.

Shorncliffe has already been covered & agree with suggestion of Bindha & Nudgee, but I also question if North Boondall is that useful.

Caboolture I can't really see any that could be cut, although Sunshine might be marginal?

Cleveland has already had a useless station (Doboy) cut, and the rest seem reasonable although I wonder how many people use Hemmant, and there is arguably one too many stations in Wynnum.

MBRL - do we really need to build the proposed station at Kinsellas Road?  Seems to me like too many stations on the new line.

Springfield as proposed seems fine, and in fact I'd even add Ellen Grove for Carole Park & southern end of Forest Lake.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sunshine might be a bit random but it does get used by alot of the workers in the area. Some of which aren't included on the peak results due to some early starters. When Kippa Ring goes up it would be interesting to see the impact on Dakabin. Lakeside Raceway (Which is making a comeback) is located beside the station too. There have been times when quite a few people have gotten off on weekend mornings along with Dakabin High School on its right and houses are slowly going up in the area too.

[Cam]

If Ebbw Vale station is no longer used then a pedestrian connection would need to be built from Dinmore station to Hoepner Rd in Citiswich Business Park. A Masters Home Improvement store is being built within the business park close to Ebbw Vale station.

Closing Gailes station is a no brainer. This would mean a 2 minute saving for services in both directions as an extra minute of dwell time was added at Gailes in the latest Ipswich Line timetable.

EDIT: Spelling of Hoepner.

[colinw]

Had to look at a map to figure out where Hoepner Road is. Wasn't there when I lived in Ipswich 20 years ago.

[petey3801]

In regards to Sunshine, i'd say maybe merge Virginia and Sunshine into a new station around halfway between? Or just on the Sunshine side of the curve between the two...

Cleveland line: Hemmant could probably go, as well as Wynnum (leaving W North and W Central).

Beenleigh line, as has already been stated. Although, i'd say merge Holmview and Edens Landing to a station somewhere around Holmview Road level crossing (http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.704594,153.182099&z=18&t=k&nmd=20111109 )

Ipswich line, i'd say Gailes could easily go. Ebbw Vale I thought could go until Cam said about the business park etc. being built in the area. Although, in reality, most people going to Masters would be driving (due to the nature of the store), although some staff may use the train? Feeder buses to Bundamba and Dinmore may serve the area better than the station.. Riverview doesn't really serve a huge purpose, and could be well served by feeder buses to Redbank and Dinmore (would also mean the curves around Riverview could be straightened to remove the 60km/h section).

[SurfRail]

MBRL - do we really need to build the proposed station at Kinsellas Road?  Seems to me like too many stations on the new line.

I'd like to see Murrumba Downs and Kinsellas Road both deleted.

Mango Hill and Kippa-Ring are about as good as you can get for those spots.

[ozbob]

MBRL - do we really need to build the proposed station at Kinsellas Road?  Seems to me like too many stations on the new line.

I'd like to see Murrumba Downs and Kinsellas Road both deleted.

Mango Hill and Kippa-Ring are about as good as you can get for those spots.

+1, there are far too many stations for the line as it is ...

[#Metro]

What are people's opinions on a release asking to cut stations?
Unthinkable? or Doable?

[somebody]

What are people's opinions on a release asking to cut stations?
Unthinkable? or Doable?

Probably not a good idea while election fever is striking.

[Stillwater]

It is a good idea, wrong timing.  If we issued a press release, political candidates will be seen running to their local railway station, jostling each other to get in the lens of the local newspaper photographer and shouting 'elect me and I will save this railway station from the goths and vandals of RailBOT.  As your member, I will ensure this station stays open.'

Best to wait until the new government (whichever colour that will be) gets into power and finds out the true value of the deficit and will then be looking at ways to make sensible cuts.  With their political backsides protected for three years, pollies may be more inclined to consider station closure suggestions in a calmer light.

[Golliwog]

No one has touched on the FG line yet. My pet peeve with the stations is Keperra-Grovely-Oxford Park being so close together. I would have thought you could have removed Oxford Park as Grovely is just around the corner (and you need that one as it is right on Dawson Pde, which would be excellent if they ran decent bus feeders up into the hills) but seeing as that has only recently been done up that would be unlikely, unless the LNP got in as they could spin it as "another Labor overspend". Keeping Grovely where it is is also needed to keep that sharp corner from being more annoying than it could be. Keperra is needed, but perhaps would be better if it was closer to FG, however that would then isolate the shops nearby, and if you went more than a few 100m, then the golf course cuts off access to the houses on the north side of the line.

All in all, not ideal, but pretty much stuck with it.

[Gazza]

Ellen Grove 

[ozbob]

What are people's opinions on a release asking to cut stations?
Unthinkable? or Doable?

No.

[Jonno]

I think this is madness for us to be even discussing.  We should be suggesting way of increasing the patringare at stations, increased services, better long distance travel, etc. not removing/ not using stations because a Govt has let it the network and frequencies stagnate for 30 years.

[#Metro]

I think this is madness for us to be even discussing.  We should be suggesting way of increasing the patringare at stations, increased services, better long distance travel, etc. not removing/ not using stations because a Govt has let it the network and frequencies stagnate for 30 years.
   

I think it is a legitimate discussion topic. One of the things I've noticed about Perth is that the lines with the closer spacing vs the lines with the wider spacing have much less patronage on it, in fact about double the patronage happens on the higher spacing lines.

Frequency can be improved, but services can be sped up too.

[HappyTrainGuy]

If anything there has also been talks of merging stations.

[#Metro]

I've also added a reference to further my point:
http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/NewsandMedia/TransperthPatronage/tabid/218/Default.aspx

Rail is part of the Core Frequent Network (Rail):

You need speed
You need frequency
You need scope of hours

The magic triangle right there.

If it's fast but not frequent, its not good enough
If it's frequent but not fast, its not good enough
If it dies immediately after peak hour, its not good enough.

[SurfRail]

I think this is madness for us to be even discussing.  We should be suggesting way of increasing the patringare at stations, increased services, better long distance travel, etc. not removing/ not using stations because a Govt has let it the network and frequencies stagnate for 30 years.

The point is that service would not actually degrade for the vast majority of people - it would improve, and a properly designed bus network can feed people in. 

The Mandurah line has provision for around twice the number of stations actually on it, and I doubt we will see any of them built in a hurry.  The bus network is doing its job.

[colinw]

Just because a station has been there for 100+ years doesn't mean it is a "sacred cow" that cannot be removed or merged.

Otherwise the following stations would still be with us:

1. Gloucester Street
2. Nyanda
3. Holmview (original)
4. Doboy
5. Golf Club Gates
6. Bowen Hills (original)
7. Mayne

Does anyone really think the world will come crashing down around our ears if Rocklea, Ebbw Vale or Bindha vanish from the system?

When I was in Madrid riding Line suburban C2/C7 recently, a number of abandoned former stations were noticeable as we whizzed past at over 100 km/h. 

[#Metro]

1. Gloucester Street
2. Nyanda
3. Holmview (original)
4. Doboy
5. Golf Club Gates
6. Bowen Hills (original)
7. Mayne

RIP THEM OUT!!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Don't forget the original Beenleigh station (The wide empty space on the right just prior to the station when coming from the north) that was thrown down the road to its new current location prior to electrification (The tracks for the old Holmview alignment are still there in parts lol). Coopers Plains, Runcorn, Fruitgrove and Altandi were also demolished and moved when the third track went through.

[colinw]

 

[colinw]

Don't forget the original Beenleigh station (The wide empty space on the right just prior to the station when coming from the north) that was thrown down the road to its new current location prior to electrification (The tracks for the old Holmview alignment are still there in parts lol). Coopers Plains, Runcorn, Fruitgrove and Altandi were also demolished and moved when the third track went through.

HTG, didn't realise any of the old track was still there. Do you mean those extreme curves near the river? When was that re-alignment - 1984?

By the time I moved to Brisbane in '89 the Beenleigh station was already at its current cramped location.

Arguably if Beenleigh hadn't been moved it would be easier to fit in some extra platforms.  The old station site looks to have more room, even if it isn't quite as convenient to the centre of town.

[#Metro]

Geez! QR was very specific then! Even has your gender recorded!

[Mozz]

Not knowing anything about how QR operates, I suspect that the gender tickets may have been more about a way to gather statistics/data on commuters in a world before computers and electronic data - but may be well off the track (pun intended)

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yeah, the two sharp Holmview curves. Its been a long long time since I have actually had a good look when wizzing by but as you go past the level crossing at Holmview there should be visible rails in the grass towards the river side. I can't recall if their just rails but from memory they looked like they were in an alignment position with a bunch of other rails to the sides. I can't recall the dates but 85 rings a bell although IIRC that's when Beenleigh closed.

http://www.nearmap.com/?q=@-27.7033085,153.1811687&ll=-27.703308,153.181169&z=21&t=k&nmd=20111109

I'll do some digging.