The Centenary BUZ thread

[somebody]

But when will the BUZ begin to Centenary suburbs? Needs to begin at same time of the morning as the 111 or 222 to leave around 5am for early transfers due to the distance out of town.

Don't hold your breath.  I think the 100 was the rumoured upgrade for the west.

[SurfRail]

Centenary was specifically mentioned to me earlier this year, however when I quizzed some people in BT a few months ago they knew nothing...

[Set in train]

Centenary was specifically mentioned to me earlier this year, however when I quizzed some people in BT a few months ago they knew nothing...

Thanks for that. It is a shame, those suburbs not off Sumner Rd don't have a route to the train station, they need a BUZ. Legible, high frequency option.

[Set in train]

Your map is fantastic.

Whilst I believe a two way, legible route is best, perhaps a split north of Mt Ommaney would be best?

Inbound might follow Arribri Ave and outbound via Yallambee Rd? Would eliminate the loop around the Centenary High School.

The street layout does not make it easy, but as per your red line from Riverhills to Mt Ommaney Shops:

along Sumner Rd, left following Horizon Drive to Dandenong Rd (none of of the double back for the McFarlane St roundabout)

Then a choice of either the blue or red line north of Mt Ommaney Shopping Centre.

[#Metro]

Thanks for that. It is a shame, those suburbs not off Sumner Rd don't have a route to the train station, they need a BUZ. Legible, high frequency option.

There are only 3 routes with 3 numbers, which ensures maximum simplicity.
The feeders operate as rockets in peak hour
All buses operate like a BUZ service
Anyone can get to Darra station either directly (dark blue route) or via interchange at Mt Ommaney.

[AnonymouslyBad]

Centenary was specifically mentioned to me earlier this year, however when I quizzed some people in BT a few months ago they knew nothing...

Usually, a BUZ is made by just upping the frequency on an express route that already exists.
I can't think of any BUZes that actually came in as new routes.

That's the problem in the Centenary area, I think - a route overhaul needs to happen before you can really BUZ any of them. Far more complex. I guess you could BUZ the 450 as is, but it wouldn't be great...

[Mr X]

^^ 111, 199, 444, CityGlider 

[Set in train]

That's the problem in the Centenary area, I think - a route overhaul needs to happen before you can really BUZ any of them. Far more complex. I guess you could BUZ the 450 as is, but it wouldn't be great...

I agree, route does need to be overhauled.

[AnonymouslyBad]

^^ 111, 199, 444, CityGlider 

CityGlider isn't advertised as a BUZ, even if it does meet the requirements

Fair point on the other three - I remember the 444 coming in, actually. (What was the 199 before it was a BUZ? Surely that route did exist.) I'd say they're exceptions to the rule, though.

[#Metro]

222 is probably the exception to the rule.
Yes, steam iron full blast for this area. The current route is a shocker.

[SurfRail]

^^ 111, 199, 444, CityGlider 

CityGlider isn't advertised as a BUZ, even if it does meet the requirements

Fair point on the other three - I remember the 444 coming in, actually. (What was the 199 before it was a BUZ? Surely that route did exist.) I'd say they're exceptions to the rule, though.

444 used to be the 440 - same route as it used to take except in the CBD.

Teneriffe was previously connected to Fairfield (191/193) and West End to Merthyr (190/194), with peak hour 195 going from West End to New Farm Park.  The pairings were reversed in 2006 resulting in the 199 BUZ, 196/197, maintained 195 and coverage route 193.  At this time I believe the 192 was still using Elizabeth and Ann Streets and did a loop somewhere (Creek St?)

111 had no antecedent as it uses the busway, so 222 is analogous (kind of).

[Mr X]

^^ 111, 199, 444, CityGlider 

CityGlider isn't advertised as a BUZ, even if it does meet the requirements

Fair point on the other three - I remember the 444 coming in, actually. (What was the 199 before it was a BUZ? Surely that route did exist.) I'd say they're exceptions to the rule, though.

It has BUZ frequency and is mentioned in many places as a BUZ, just an unbranded one 
i.e. http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/maps/network/111031-buz.pdf

I would say it would be stupid to introduce a BUZ to an area that's never had a bus service before, would be a useless air parcel service.

444 used to be the 440 - same route as it used to take except in the CBD.

Teneriffe was previously connected to Fairfield (191/193) and West End to Merthyr (190/194), with peak hour 195 going from West End to New Farm Park.  The pairings were reversed in 2006 resulting in the 199 BUZ, 196/197, maintained 195 and coverage route 193.  At this time I believe the 192 was still using Elizabeth and Ann Streets and did a loop somewhere (Creek St?)

111 had no antecedent as it uses the busway, so 222 is analogous (kind of).

Wasn't the 111 a BUZ when the SE Busway opened?
True point about 190/191 (HBU's old local route) but the 199 was "new". Anyway this is all an off-topic technicality 
192 also did some retarded dogleg through South Brisbane and terminated in H. Hill.

[#Metro]

I would say it would be stupid to introduce a BUZ to an area that's never had a bus service before, would be a useless air parcel service.

I actually thought CityGlider would be an air parcel service because 192 is what we had to go on... I was wrong on that one!

[AnonymouslyBad]

Wasn't the 111 a BUZ when the SE Busway opened?

The SE Busway opened in early 2001. I'm sure I've read that the first BUZ route (which was indeed the 111) didn't start until 2003, so the busway has a couple of years on it. Surely the 111 route did exist from the outset though, so maybe it was a BUZ in everything but the name. 111 invented the BUZ, you could say

A lot really has changed...

[SurfRail]

Wasn't the 111 a BUZ when the SE Busway opened?

The SE Busway opened in early 2001. I'm sure I've read that the first BUZ route (which was indeed the 111) didn't start until 2003, so the busway has a couple of years on it. Surely the 111 route did exist from the outset though, so maybe it was a BUZ in everything but the name. 111 invented the BUZ, you could say

A lot really has changed...

I actually believe the first BUZ route was the 130, but am open to correction.

[somebody]

I actually believe the first BUZ route was the 130, but am open to correction.

I'm sure it was the first actually branded as a BUZ.  Perhaps 111 provided the same service level without the branding before it?

[Jonas Jade]

I'm fairly certain the 333 was a new route when the INB opened.

[somebody]

I'm fairly certain the 333 was a new route when the INB opened.

332 was a new route in May 2008 when the Roma St/KGSBS opened.  Not sure if you mean when the Normanby/RCH bit opened?

[Jonas Jade]

Yeah, when the INB RCH/Normanby etc opened in 2004, the 333 was a completely "new" BUZ route. Prior to that it was the 330 or 370.

I remember the promo pamphlets "Catch the BUZ" advertising the route.

[#Metro]

Credits to Gazza!

CORE FREQUENT NETWORK
CENTENARY BUZ

MAXIMUM SIMPLICITY -  9 routes down to 2
EASY TO REMEMBER
JUST 2 ROUTES (Okay maybe three - one needs to go to Darra)

[Gazza]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/wtfommaney.jpg/

Heres new and old compared in with an open source map base. I want to get it drawn more legibly before a final release, but I literally wanted to bang my head on the wall when drawing the thick 'rainbow' of overlapping routes.
And WFT is with the 450/453 just zigzagging the suburbs. sh%t.

Does anyone know where the "riverhills east" stop is specifcally (Cross street?). Do all buses double back there or something? sh%t.

Are there any routes missing west of the freeway I need to add? Does Sumner road literally not have a service for its full length? sh%t.

Its like, the design is clearly a coverage route, but it doesn't even cover. sh%t.

So yeah new proposal would be something like 450, P451, 452, P453. Simples.

Theoretically, all existing routes  in the area are compatible with this setup, so I'll leave them for another time.

[#Metro]

Do you have a darra rail connection route?

[SurfRail]

I like very much.

For operational reasons I would suggest that both routes terminate at Riverhills West, where there is a turnaround and driver facilities.  It's spitting distance from where the blue route terminates anyway.

[somebody]

Not sure what is different here to what has already been discussed?

[#Metro]

So yeah new proposal would be something like 450, P451, 452, P453. Simples.

Brizcommuter often say that rail people want "express to my house" but this is even worse on bus!

once the BUZ service reaches indooroopilly, they are both duplicating each other all the way into the CBD. There maybe demand for 2 BUZ routes, or alternatively one might terminate at Indooroopilly and the rest transfer to BUZ 444 / P88

[beauyboy]

Any BUZ in that area should link back to Rail at Darra. If you leave out the Link back to Darra you are assuming that everyone is wanting to to go to the City.
People may want to go to Ipswich or Inala.
We must have a network that links services with services.

Donald

[Gazza]

Not sure what is different here to what has already been discussed?

I came to the realisation that there is no real point terminating either of the two BUZes at Darra.

There would be no demand for a single seat Darra - CBD bus route

There would be no demand for a single seat Darra - Indro bus route

(Both of these are catered to by the rail network)

There would be demand for a single seat Darra - Mt Ommaney Route
That can be dealt with separately....Admittedly I have some bias towards making sure Centenary has good CBD radial routes first.

So with that bit of clarity, the two BUZes design themselves. Hence being a little different to TTs suggestion. The coverage catchments weren't highlighted previously, and these seal the deal.

[somebody]

I disagree.  If you have a CBD-Mt Ommaney-Riverhills BUZ and a Mt Ommaney-Riverhills-Darra service, you then have duplication of the service on the Mt Ommaney-Riverhills part.

[david]

I came to the realisation that there is no real point terminating either of the two BUZes at Darra.

There would be no demand for a single seat Darra - CBD bus route

There would be no demand for a single seat Darra - Indro bus route

(Both of these are catered to by the rail network)

There would be demand for a single seat Darra - Mt Ommaney Route
That can be dealt with separately....Admittedly I have some bias towards making sure Centenary has good CBD radial routes first.

Hence why I have suggested that upgrading the 103 to cross-town frequency (6am to 9pm, 15min peak, 30min off-peak) is the way to go. Combine that with a separate Jindalee -> Darra feeder service (via Centenary Highway and Sinnamon Park) and you provide the appropriate service to Darra Station.

Honestly, until Sumners Road is fixed up, I hesistate to suggest sending buses to Darra Station via Sumners Rd. The 452 can often run late because of Sumners Road.

EDIT: Map of proposed Jindalee -> Darra feeder below. Ignore the blue line.

[somebody]

Sumners Rd is that bad?

[Gazza]

Edit: Wait Simon, were you disagreeing with me, or beauyboy?

Redundant post was redundant on my part 


Agree that Mt Ommaney Darra demand would be catered to by an upgraded 103, or even something like this:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[somebody]

Edit: Wait Simon, were you disagreeing with me, or beauyboy?

You.

I think my supporting arguments made it clear enough.  You should try it someday. <ducks>

[#Metro]

I'd suggest a paid park and ride facility at Mt Ommaney to mop up areas which don't have easy access to the bus hub (suburbs east of the Centenary Motorway)

[Gazza]

Edit: Wait Simon, were you disagreeing with me, or beauyboy?

You.

I think my supporting arguments made it clear enough.  You should try it someday. <ducks>

So what if the plan was the two Buzes drawn by myself, plus a 103 upgrade?

[beauyboy]

So let me get this right instead of running the BUZ back to Darra Train station and making things simplified in the area you are proposing other existing routes to cover that.

This is not simplifing the network!

Lets take a worse case, a small trip from the corner of Sumners Rd & Horizon Drive to Oxley station
With a simplified BUZ ending at Darra
the worst time spent waiting for the Transfer at Darra would be 15minutes

Without the BUZ finishing at Darra and having to transfer at Mt Ommaney shops, Say the feeder is running to BUZ statis
the worst time spent waiting for transfer at the shops then Darra station would be up to 30minutes.

My point is frequent service have to link with frequent services if they are close together. We have got to stop thinking that everyone will want to got this point because they may not. Suggesting people use other services to fill in the gaps is just making things to complicated for many people. The times I say to people would you like a list of routes for the SE Busway the rattle off half a dozen they are amazed. Not everyone has that knowledge of the Network and they can not be expected to.

Quite simply the network has to be simple, with services connecting with services because net everyone goes to the same place.

Donald

[#Metro]

I would suspect that some people would want to commute to Ipswich and possibly even Springfield (uni down there) so I agree that there needs to be a short frequent connection there. In melbourne, they have routes such as 601 which run as rail shuttles every 2 minutes or so.

[Gazza]

So let me get this right instead of running the BUZ back to Darra Train station and making things simplified in the area you are proposing other existing routes to cover that.

This is not simplifing the network!

Lets take a worse case, a small trip from the corner of Sumners Rd & Horizon Drive to Oxley station
With a simplified BUZ ending at Darra
the worst time spent waiting for the Transfer at Darra would be 15minutes

Without the BUZ finishing at Darra and having to transfer at Mt Ommaney shops, Say the feeder is running to BUZ statis
the worst time spent waiting for transfer at the shops then Darra station would be up to 30minutes.

My point is frequent service have to link with frequent services if they are close together. We have got to stop thinking that everyone will want to got this point because they may not. Suggesting people use other services to fill in the gaps is just making things to complicated for many people. The times I say to people would you like a list of routes for the SE Busway the rattle off half a dozen they are amazed. Not everyone has that knowledge of the Network and they can not be expected to.

Quite simply the network has to be simple, with services connecting with services because net everyone goes to the same place.

Donald

The issue is the roadlayout in the area.
At the Dandenong Sumner rd intersection it's 3 ways.
If the bus goes to darra,the other way is left unserved.
Its not geometrically possible to do all we want to do with only 2 routes.

Will diagram all options when I get home.

Feel free to propose alternatives.

[somebody]

With one exception, I stick with what I proposed before, here: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4448.msg43350#msg43350
The exception is the red route should run to UQ via Lambert Rd.

Refer also here: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5480.0

What I want is two BUZes nearly as below - the red route isn't quite right.


EDIT: updated map rather than explain differences

[Gazza]

Yeah that's pretty much perfect actually.
Clearly Sumner Rd is the place to live

I guess there is more discussion to be had on what the routes do when they get north of the river.

[SurfRail]

I really dislike the long detour around Westlake.

I think doing it with 3 routes (Gazza's way) is probably a better option, with some review of what happens at or after Indooroopilly.  Possibly adopt Gazza's plan but send one to Darra instead of via Sumner Rd, then have a Riverhills - Mt Ommaney - Sinnamon Park - Darra service as well so you avoid detours, duplication etc.