Article: Anguish and agony of trains without loos

[Fares_Fair]

Twitter

612brisbane ABC Radio Brisbane
Tomorrow at 7.35am @QueenslandRail responds to @Robert_Dow's claim that our interurban train toilets are blocked too often.
25 minutes ago

Toilets have been sticker 'locked' and/or 'out of order' 5x in 20 journeys (2 weeks), since I returned to work on 9 January, 2012.
25% of my trains had no facilities available.
That's just the services I caught.

I have started keeping records for this beside my on-time performance statistics.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

At least if the line was duplicated we would have a second chance of a train with working toilets.
Bring on duplication!

If you think a duplication will result in improved services, you may be a bit naive.

Not at all, I have always said it will ENABLE improvements to our services.
It is certainly no guarantee.
Viz;

The Sunshine Coast Case Report
Rail duplication Beerburrum to Nambour

The Sunshine Coast section of this railway has a great potential for encouraging the use of public transport and easing congestion on the Bruce Highway between Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast.
Rail travel times can be reduced, services can be increased and reliability can be improved.

AND

Objectives: What do I hope to achieve?

Construction of the duplication of the North Coast Line (NCL) from Beerburrum through to Landsborough ASAP with planning and funding for completion to Nambour by 2020.
Timeframe: Landsborough to Nambour - Initial Advice Statement by Arup Engineers (2007) p9.

The duplication of the line will benefit the national north-south freight corridor and enable improvements to world class standard for Brisbane to Sunshine Coast rail services.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[#Metro]

Sunshine Coast = The POO line  

Service is POO
Frequency is POO
Speed is POO
Toilets are POO
Half the trains aren't even trains

ROFL

So much for 'Bombay'... goldcoast 

[Fares_Fair]

Sunshine Coast = The POO line  

Service is POO Part time Or Obloquy
Frequency is POO Part time Or Obdurate
Speed is POO Predominately Ogee Orchestrated an S bend, also see below ...
Toilets are POO Probably Out of Order
Half the trains aren't even trains

Fixed.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Mr X]

Seriously
Why does the Gold Coast have a train every 30mins on weekends yet the Sunshine Coast has a train every 90mins?? In 90mins I could be eating lunch in Brisbane before the train has even left! That's not considering the Sunny coast line is in whoop whoop.

[Fares_Fair]

Yes, and the government says It needs to look at where the growth is. Annastacia said that on 17 March, 2011 on local TV news.
Here we are with the Sunshine Coast the second highest growth in the south-east quarter and they do nothing. It truly is breathtaking.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

Twitter

612brisbane ABC Radio Brisbane
Tomorrow at 7.35am @QueenslandRail responds to @Robert_Dow's claim that our interurban train toilets are blocked too often.
25 minutes ago

Mark Willaims Chief operations officer Queensland Rail

1/3 fleet have toilets

Two toilets per 6 cars, if one out advise the guard.

Robina HAS a decanting facility, and Mayne.

Signage review underway, often due to toilet paper etc.

Suggested the toilets need decanting once a week.

Announcer challenged with recent data from Sunshine Coast commuter, 6 times out in 21 journeys.   Response other toilet should be available ..

Hopefully interview will be up on the blog later today ..

Unfortunately I thought the interview was a bit of denial of the issue ..

[ozbob]

From 612 ABC Brisbane click --> here!

Queensland Rail responds to block toilet claim

23 January 2012 , 9:15 AM by Spencer Howson

On Friday we were speaking about toilets on trains. Robert from RAIL back on track said there are certain trains fitted with toilets, but many aren't in use.

He says the reason is because they can only "decant" at one point, Mayne. He's calling for other "decanting points" around Brisbane so all trains can have toilets on board.

Queensland Rail didn't have anyone available for comment on Friday morning but today we're joined by the Chief Rail Operations Officer with Queensland Rail Mark Williams:

I am intrigued that there are some decanting facilities at Robina, some have reported the opposite.

[Stillwater]

If so, are they used?  I say that because I am aware of a case where a hospital said it had a kidney dialysis machine, but didn't tell the world that the machine sat in the crate in which it was delivered because there were no trained nurses to operate it.  So, the question is does QR employ effluent decanters at Robina and is the art of decanting practised there?

[Fares_Fair]

Twitter

612brisbane ABC Radio Brisbane
Tomorrow at 7.35am @QueenslandRail responds to @Robert_Dow's claim that our interurban train toilets are blocked too often.
25 minutes ago

Mark Willaims Chief operations officer Queensland Rail

1/3 fleet have toilets

Two toilets per 6 cars, if one out advise the guard.

Robina HAS a decanting facility, and Mayne.

Signage review underway, often due to toilet paper etc.

Suggested the toilets need decanting once a week.

Announcer challenged with recent data from Sunshine Coast commuter, 6 times out in 21 journeys.   Response other toilet should be available ..

Hopefully interview will be up on the blog later today ..

Unfortunately I thought the interview was a bit of denial of the issue ..

All of the services I have seen that are out of order had 'locked' stickers over the entry door buttons and door jambs.

[somebody]

I think the notion of using the toilet in the other unit is a bit dubious.  It requires a unit swap at a station.

[Fares_Fair]

Is there no decanting facilities on the Sunshine Coast line at all?
I mean it's just the longest line in the network!

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[petey3801]

I am intrigued that there are some decanting facilities at Robina, some have reported the opposite.

Certainly the first I have heard of it! Can't be used much, i've seen many units that have come out of Robina with toilets that need decanting...

[Fares_Fair]

I'm no expert, but why could it not be done via a mobile vehicle/truck, just like the old septic pump-out systems.
Is that a possible and quicker fix?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[#Metro]

The speaker said that the loos take about a week to fill up. That's more than enough time to empty them at mayne.

Therefore, the toilets are closed for other reasons - apparently.

[Fares_Fair]

The speaker said that the loos take about a week to fill up. That's more than enough time to empty them at mayne.

Therefore, the toilets are closed for other reasons - apparently.

The inference of that being; it's to save the costs of decanting, and save on the maintenance budget.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

So if a toilet is blocked day one after decant, nothing happens other than stickers saying it is closed for another six days?

And if the decant facilities at Robina are not used, maybe because staff are not available to do the task.  I would expect people would need to be trained in the safe decant procedures.  It is one thing have the facilities, it is another to actually use them.

A customer focused organisation would be taking steps to sort this and saying so, rather than pretend it is not a major issue.  It damn well is, do they want us to trot out the folks who have had to abandon travelling by train because of the uncertain toilet situations?

And where is the Queensland Rail Customer Advocate??   This is core business I would have thought for someone in that role ...

Ho hummm ....

PS.  just passing down Wacol, lots of spoil wagons and spoil in the yard ..  on EMU30 ...

[Fares_Fair]

I'll be interested to hear this morning's 612 ABC news story when it comes up on their blog.

Regards,
Fares-Fair.

[ozbob]

It is, earlier post in this thread ...

From 612 ABC Brisbane click --> here!

Queensland Rail responds to block toilet claim

23 January 2012 , 9:15 AM by Spencer Howson

On Friday we were speaking about toilets on trains. Robert from RAIL back on track said there are certain trains fitted with toilets, but many aren't in use.

He says the reason is because they can only "decant" at one point, Mayne. He's calling for other "decanting points" around Brisbane so all trains can have toilets on board.

Queensland Rail didn't have anyone available for comment on Friday morning but today we're joined by the Chief Rail Operations Officer with Queensland Rail Mark Williams:

I am intrigued that there are some decanting facilities at Robina, some have reported the opposite.

[#Metro]

Customer Charter specifically deals with "your comfort".

If something is wrong with a loo, then fine - they get vanalised or dirty etc.

The comment about "it not being a big issue" is inappropriate. Out of X feedback only 19 were about toilets. What were the other pieces about - low frequency services, no doubt!

impact = frequency x consequences

Having a toilet issue might be low frequency, but also causes severe discomfort and distress, particularly on long haul journeys. You can't get off at a station to pee because the next service might be half an hour or an hour away.

[Stillwater]

You can see what's emerging ... the servicing schedule works around a 6/7 day cycle, with any problems experienced in days 1-5 just left remaining until the scheduled service.  The toilet is assumed to be operational between scheduled decants.

RailBOT members may need to do a bit of detective work .... With a pen or texta, write "RBOT" and the date on the tape marking the toilets as out of order and other members observing if the tag is still in place 2-3-4-5 days later.

[ozbob]

@TT  This problem has been around for years, many have given up complaining and / or have given up travelling on the train.  In some cases they have had babies, a number of pregnant women have had problems in the past. Others carry their own 'emergency urine containers '  as one listener indicated to 612 ABC Brisbane this morning.

[#Metro]

RailBOT members may need to do a bit of detective work .... With a pen or texta, write "RBOT" and the date on the tape marking the toilets as out of order and other members observing if the tag is still in place 2-3-4-5 days later.
Logged

I think we can just track the unit, car and train number on the forum. Sometimes I think the carriage number are printed inside the train near the door - no?  No need for tape and what not.

[ozbob]

RailBOT members may need to do a bit of detective work .... With a pen or texta, write "RBOT" and the date on the tape marking the toilets as out of order and other members observing if the tag is still in place 2-3-4-5 days later.
Logged

I think we can just track the unit, car and train number on the forum. Sometimes I think the carriage number are printed inside the train near the door - no?  No need for tape and what not.

Just track the units, no tape or marking that is against the railway by-laws.  Nothing stopping a running record of units spotted with loos out of order.

[#Metro]

Customer Charter eh?

http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/AboutUs/CustomerCharter/Pages/Yourcomfort.aspx

a.   
We are currently purchasing one new, three-carriage train per month to increase the overall seating capacity of our City network.

Where are these new services?

b.   
We regularly review our timetables to respond to changing customer needs.

Except, QR doesn't. This is something they're just doing now- before it took ages to get new services.

http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/AboutUs/CustomerCharter/Pages/Yourtime.aspx

We aim to provide a regular and reliable service. Sometimes problems occur outside our control which affects your journey. When incidents occur along the railway line, it may result in some disruptions to our services.
We will do everything we can to:
a.   
Maximise the number of services that arrive on time.

b.   
Minimise the number of services cancelled.

Except, QR services are so infrequent the services really DON'T value customer's time- huge amounts of waiting between train services. Half an hour!

[#Metro]

LOL. RAILBOT Toilet Tracker!

[mufreight]

You can see what's emerging ... the servicing schedule works around a 6/7 day cycle, with any problems experienced in days 1-5 just left remaining until the scheduled service.  The toilet is assumed to be operational between scheduled decants.

RailBOT members may need to do a bit of detective work .... With a pen or texta, write "RBOT" and the date on the tape marking the toilets as out of order and other members observing if the tag is still in place 2-3-4-5 days later.

This strengthens the argument for a further run on order for more 160 series IMU units, the acquisition of a further three car set every two months, six units or three 6car trains every year for the next two years until the delivery of the next generation trains commences would cater for network growth and provide a buffer that would enable a better servicing program to enable repairs to vandalisim of toilets and decanting on a more frequent basis.
Any build up of rollingstock at this time chould be with IMU units, an IMU can be rostered on a short haul commuter service but the continued use of SMU sets on the longer services such as Gold Coast or Nambour or Gympie services leaves much to be desired.

[somebody]

You can see what's emerging ... the servicing schedule works around a 6/7 day cycle, with any problems experienced in days 1-5 just left remaining until the scheduled service.  The toilet is assumed to be operational between scheduled decants.

RailBOT members may need to do a bit of detective work .... With a pen or texta, write "RBOT" and the date on the tape marking the toilets as out of order and other members observing if the tag is still in place 2-3-4-5 days later.

This strengthens the argument for a further run on order for more 160 series IMU units, the acquisition of a further three car set every two months, six units or three 6car trains every year for the next two years until the delivery of the next generation trains commences would cater for network growth and provide a buffer that would enable a better servicing program to enable repairs to vandalisim of toilets and decanting on a more frequent basis.
Any build up of rollingstock at this time chould be with IMU units, an IMU can be rostered on a short haul commuter service but the continued use of SMU sets on the longer services such as Gold Coast or Nambour or Gympie services leaves much to be desired.

But the problem is that long lead time parts would have to be ordered, as well as Maryborough is busy building trains for WA.

Information is this ship has sailed.

[HappyTrainGuy]

You can see what's emerging ... the servicing schedule works around a 6/7 day cycle, with any problems experienced in days 1-5 just left remaining until the scheduled service.  The toilet is assumed to be operational between scheduled decants.

RailBOT members may need to do a bit of detective work .... With a pen or texta, write "RBOT" and the date on the tape marking the toilets as out of order and other members observing if the tag is still in place 2-3-4-5 days later.

This strengthens the argument for a further run on order for more 160 series IMU units, the acquisition of a further three car set every two months, six units or three 6car trains every year for the next two years until the delivery of the next generation trains commences would cater for network growth and provide a buffer that would enable a better servicing program to enable repairs to vandalisim of toilets and decanting on a more frequent basis.
Any build up of rollingstock at this time chould be with IMU units, an IMU can be rostered on a short haul commuter service but the continued use of SMU sets on the longer services such as Gold Coast or Nambour or Gympie services leaves much to be desired.

Not gonna happen. Not to mention more pressure on the limited maintainence schedule at Mayne and suitable stabling.

[somebody]

Not to mention more pressure on the limited maintainence schedule at Mayne and suitable stabling.

You'd think that they could expand the stabling at Robina like they were going to.

[mufreight]

Sorry to relate but sources at Marybrough tell a different story, no rejiging is required and all the components that would need to be outsourced are in the main off the shelf items with a lead time little more than the shipping time and it would be possible to supply six units before the end of the current year if a run on order were to be placed.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Not to mention more pressure on the limited maintainence schedule at Mayne and suitable stabling.

You'd think that they could expand the stabling at Robina like they were going to.

And who is going to pay for all this extra rollingstock and stabling prior to the NextGenstock contract? 

[mufreight]

Not to mention more pressure on the limited maintainence schedule at Mayne and suitable stabling.

You'd think that they could expand the stabling at Robina like they were going to.

And who is going to pay for all this extra rollingstock and stabling prior to the NextGenstock contract? 

The stabling at Redbank is supposedly to relieve Mayne at present it has capacity for some 9 six car train sets,, as for the cost of the rolling stock additional rollingstock will be needed over the next two years to stay level with the anticipated growth in passenger numbers and additional IMU sets makes more sense than more SMU sets.

[somebody]

I thought Redbank was going to be 6x 6 car trains.

[SurfRail]

I thought Redbank was going to be 6x 6 car trains.

It would appear to be:

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.600736,152.866867&z=19&t=h&nmd=20120111

[HappyTrainGuy]

Its 6x6 stabling with the space available for extra roads in the future As the like above should show.

[p858snake]

A week to fill up? That must be a bloody big tank on those trains...

[somebody]

Hmm, I guess not as infuriating as the failure to fully implement the planned expansion at Robina.

[ozbob]

The major issue with the loos is blockages caused by incorrect use.  

Steps are being made to allow a faster unblockage of systems should that occur, at all IMU stabling locations (eg. Nambour).  I expect that will mean a better onboard toilet availability overall.

Also, confirmed trains are definitely decanted at Robina.  Decanting though is not the major issue, it is inappropriate use.  Education of users will be stepped up, eg. don't put disposable baby nappies in the system and so forth.

Queensland Rail is taking action to fix it.  Thanks.

[SurfRail]

Good to finally see some "movement" by QR on this issue.