Station staff - cutbacks?

[nathandavid88]

Just a little thought bubble that came to mind regarding the toilets, do you think that it would be possible to fit them with a GoCard reader lock that would allow GoCard users to access them outside of hours? Or something along those lines – having toilets that spend most of their time locked makes you wonder why put them there in the first place!

[ozbob]

Just a little thought bubble that came to mind regarding the toilets, do you think that it would be possible to fit them with a GoCard reader lock that would allow GoCard users to access them outside of hours? Or something along those lines – having toilets that spend most of their time locked makes you wonder why put them there in the first place!

It is a good idea Nathandavid88.  We have raised it before and they have said it is too costly to fit the locks etc.  In view of staff cutbacks they need to revisit this perhaps.  I would imagine it would have to be restricted to registered go cards to give some sort of security though.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It would be a very costly system I must add.

[ozbob]

Another option is to have a local resident to open and close the toilets each day. So they are open at least during daylight hours. This could be done for a small payment.

Some jurisdictions also have volunteer groups that look after local railway stations.  We have raised that before but it has always been too hard for Queensland ... 

[#Metro]

It is a good idea Nathandavid88.  We have raised it before and they have said it is too costly to fit the locks etc.  In view of staff cutbacks they need to revisit this perhaps.  I would imagine it would have to be restricted to registered go cards to give some sort of security though.

Privatise the toilet. The cleaning company can operate and clean the loos across the network. Access fee $1 off your Go Card. :-)

[Stillwater]

Queensland regards itself as a separate  country, as evidenced by the fact that we had to pass our own state amendments to the Succession Act to allow for the first-born offspring of William and Kate to be King/Queen of Queensland.

Too hard for Queensland, but happens successfully in other states: http://www.sustainability.vic.gov.au/www/html/2887-stationeers-program.asp

[ozbob]

[longboi]

Privatise the toilet. The cleaning company can operate and clean the loos across the network. Access fee $1 off your Go Card. :-)

I think this would be an inevitable solution should stations staff numbers be reduced. Unstaffed stations cleaned by contractors who can lock and unlock toilets.

As a side note, this forum seems to have a certain obsession with toilet availability  I'm not discounting their importance...just making an observation.

[ozbob]

Lack of accessible toilets at stations and on trains is a major problem for many.  It is also a major disincentive for many people to use public transport.   As a public transport advocacy group we should be very concerned with the abysmal arrangements.  As the population of aged folk increases it will become an even bigger issue ...

[Fares_Fair]

Privatise the toilet. The cleaning company can operate and clean the loos across the network. Access fee $1 off your Go Card. :-)

I think this would be an inevitable solution should stations staff numbers be reduced. Unstaffed stations cleaned by contractors who can lock and unlock toilets.

As a side note, this forum seems to have a certain obsession with toilet availability  I'm not discounting their importance...just making an observation.

Noted Nikko,

In spite of its seeming triviality to some, the issue of toilets on trains and availability at stations hit a resonant chord with the public, and does receive attention because of it.
I don't think the forum is obsessed with it per se, probably more a response to the public expectation.

[#Metro]

As a side note, this forum seems to have a certain obsession with toilet availability   I'm not discounting their importance...just making an observation.

It was partly a tongue in cheek comment. There are many times where I have been caught busting at the station. Melbourne has privately supplie council toilets that clean themselves and beep and open the doors after 10 minutes.

[Gazza]

I think the big issue with having toilets open more widely is that a large portion of the public are obviously not toilet trained, as evidenced by the state of many public facilities.

[ozbob]

City of Melbourne --> Public toilet plan

... The City of Melbourne's longer-term aim is to have a conveniently located toilet within 250 metres at any point in the CBD and within all major pedestrian areas of the municipality ...

[ozbob]

I think the big issue with having toilets open more widely is that a large portion of the public are obviously not toilet trained, as evidenced by the state of many public facilities.

Yes, piggies everywhere these days. 

Enlightened jurisdictions are putting in automated self cleaning toilets.  On public transport facilities eg. stations another security access layer is possible with card access control, but that is a significant additional cost.

[SurfRail]

They have been in various parts of the Gold Coast for years now.  I'm surprised there aren't any around Brisbane.

Is there really any functional difference between a station toilet and a public toilet in a park?  Can't understand why they need to be closed other than to protect them from ferals, in which case there are workarounds.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

30th June 2013

Implications for more railway station staff cuts ...

Greetings,

Plenty of leaks from 'informed sources'  concerning more staff cutbacks at stations on the south-east Queensland rail network.  Staffing is already very minimal, and this is leading to a number of issues.

Security is being compromised.  It is interesting to consider Melbourne and their rail network.  A number of years ago they too cut their station staff.  All that happened was the crime and anti-social behaviours escalated to the point that armed guards - Protective Service Offices are now being placed on all stations from 6pm to last train at great cost (1).  Do we want to go there?

Another issue is that presently when there are no staff at stations toilet facilities are not accessible. Lack of accessible toilets at stations and on trains is a major problem for many.  It is also a major disincentive for many people to use public transport.   As a public transport advocacy group we are very concerned with the abysmal toilet arrangements.  As the population of aged folk increases it will become an even bigger issue.

Enlightened jurisdictions are putting in automated self cleaning toilets.  On public transport facilities eg. stations, another security access layer is possible with card access control, but that is a significant additional cost.

So simply removing staff without consideration of the security and social impacts is folly.

Penny wise is pound foolish, but what is new in Queensland?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

1. Protective Services Officers at stations cost $212 million
http://corp.ptv.vic.gov.au/travelling-safely/protective-services-officers-at-stations/

[ozbob]

4BC News have followed this up.  Thanks for the interest ..

[longboi]

They have been in various parts of the Gold Coast for years now.  I'm surprised there aren't any around Brisbane.

Is there really any functional difference between a station toilet and a public toilet in a park?  Can't understand why they need to be closed other than to protect them from ferals, in which case there are workarounds.

They are around. North Lakes bus station has an automated public toilet.

And you're right, they aren't different. It's the paradigm that train stations are grand establishments which hasn't quite changed.

Locking/unlocking can be done automatically or remotely, monitoring can also be done remotely (i.e. if the door is locked too long, CCTV can be checked and then staff sent out if necessary) and cleaning can be contracted out or done by roving staff in a similar fashion to those who collect rubbish from trains.

[Stillwater]

Various ways for controlling undesirables.  One is to play truly horrible music -- 1950s country and western should do.  It drives a younger audience silly and they move on.  Pity those passengers who have to bear it as they wait for an infrequent train. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

To me McDonalds are a chain of public toilets 

[ozbob]

I can recall the loos around Melbourne that used to have slots for a penny.  Hence the term ' spend a penny ' ... these were common in the UK too so I guess that was the model.

The onboard lavs with the open pipes that just dropped the goods on the track were always good places to hear reverberated steam sounds.  Leading carriage lav was always popular with some ...

Many rail stations are not near other outlets toilets and really do need them open for the public.  And is often a long wait as well with the ' world class ' frequency in SEQ ....

[#Metro]

Various ways for controlling undesirables.  One is to play truly horrible music -- 1950s country and western should do.  It drives a younger audience silly and they move on. 

Might drive all the pax away too. :-)

[ozbob]

Various ways for controlling undesirables.  One is to play truly horrible music -- 1950s country and western should do.  It drives a younger audience silly and they move on. 

Might drive all the pax away too. :-)

Slim Dusty -- The Sunlander 1955

[ozbob]

From the Brisbane mX 25th November 2011 page 2

QR says staff you

... Opposition Transport spokesman Scott Emerson said removing staff from stations would have put commuters at risk

"The fact the Bligh Government was planning to strip train stations of staff, including at crime ' hot spots', shows just how out touch it has become," he said ...

[#Metro]

Does Holmview need staff?

[Old Northern Road]

Perth and Adelaide manage fine without station staff. QR is probably the most overstaffed rail network on the planet. Having station staff at some poorly patronized station on the Sunshine Coast line or Holmview does absolutely nothing to increase safety on the network.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Holmview is only staffed during morning peak hour. The same with many stations around the network.

[Gazza]

I'm kinda with Old Northern Road on this one. Some stations are little more than a bus stop with steel rails...Does anyone advocate that bus stops be fully staffed and with a ticket seller?

Perth manages to get by without all the bells and whilsles on many lines...Look ma, no ticket office!

Holmview is only staffed during morning peak hour. The same with many stations around the network.

Still a bit of a waste of money at stations like that. I doubt the wages of the staff would even cover the ticket sales revenue.

[#Metro]

I don't think PSOs are a bad idea. They are expensive but also are a big psychological impact on willingness to travel late at night. If anything dangerous happens all QR staff are going to do is phone the police anyway. Labour is expensive, safety reasons are most justified at night IMHO.

[Old Northern Road]

The morning peak is also the safest time to travel so the argument that they are there for safety doesn't make much sense.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Re the staff at quieter stations. I'm not sure if they still do it as much as they used to (varies between stations and location) but staff at busier stations will clock on for the first service and then clock off at around 1-2pm. Staff that are doing the quieter stations will clock on for the first service till something around 8.30-9am before clocking off. They then clock back on again at other stations and do the 2pm-6pm shifts. An example would be at Beenleigh Jim covers the 5am-1pm shift. Whoever did the morning shift at Holmview clocks on again at Beenleigh for the 1-5pm shift. Someone else then clocks on for the 5pm-12am shift.

I don't really have any opinion on the matter tbh.

[Arnz]

Holmview is only staffed during morning peak hour. The same with many stations around the network.

Ditto Glasshouse/Palmwoods/Woombye (staffed only in the mornings).  Landsborough and Nambour are the only stations on the Sunshine Coast line that are attended for the full day.  Beerwah is staffed until 2pm or so (They assist with Australia Zoo traffic, plus inform passengers when Mayne control plays 'Platform roulette' due to Beerwah being the scheduled 'crossing' for City network trains).  The rest of the stations are nothing more than platforms (some with the infamous temporary extensions).

Cooroy and Gympie North are staffed for much of the day as a result of Traveltrain services (assist with baggage, onloading/offloading baggage/cargo, etc).

@HTG, IIRC some stations on the Caboolture/Sunshine Coast Line share the same staff iirc.  Example being the Beerwah-Glasshouse-Landsborough staff being in the same pool (eg log on for Glasshouse morning shift, then move over to Landsborough in the afternoon).  Another example (not sure if they do it now or not) is the Burpengary and Morayfield staff.

[ozbob]

Staffing on the network is very minimal now really.

What needs to happen is some consideration of security and toilets.  Lets face it there are often very long waits on railway stations for trains in SEQ, particularly if a service is pulled as happened a number of times last week.

Emerson says one thing in opposition and the opposite in Government ... what is new?

I understand weekend staffing will go on most stations that presently have it.

In time I have little doubt that there will be problems with increased anti-social behaviour etc. as has happened elsewhere.  History repeats ...

[ozbob]

I don't think PSOs are a bad idea. They are expensive but also are a big psychological impact on willingness to travel late at night. If anything dangerous happens all QR staff are going to do is phone the police anyway. Labour is expensive, safety reasons are most justified at night IMHO.

Interesting is it not?  Melbourne had staffed stations, similar to Queensland with the major important to last services etc.  They removed the staff.  Lost complete control of the situation.  Staff are now back during the day and now PSOs at night. PSOs are actually low level police and armed. Cost of the PSOs  setup is around $200 million plus the wages etc.  Staff are back on the stations.  In fact last time I was in Melbourne there were two staff at Murrumbeena, equivalent to say Sherwood ...

Staff will go.  There will be the subsequent issues and beat ups.  Eventually they will be forced to step up guards and dogs and what not. Present mob just see it as cost saving.

Stupid policy and polyticks  ...

The thing that is also rather amazing in Melbourne is that EVERY station is getting PSOs.  This is the end result of removing staff. 

The government is introducing 940 Victoria Police Protective Services Officers to every railway station in metropolitan Melbourne and major regional railway stations from 6pm until the last train to improve safety for commuters.

http://corp.ptv.vic.gov.au/travelling-safely/protective-services-officers-at-stations/

[Fares_Fair]

Holmview is only staffed during morning peak hour. The same with many stations around the network.

Ditto Glasshouse/Palmwoods/Woombye (staffed only in the mornings).  Landsborough and Nambour are the only stations on the Sunshine Coast line that are attended for the full day.  Beerwah is staffed until 2pm or so (They assist with Australia Zoo traffic, plus inform passengers when Mayne control plays 'Platform roulette' due to Beerwah being the scheduled 'crossing' for City network trains).  The rest of the stations are nothing more than platforms (some with the infamous temporary extensions).

Cooroy and Gympie North are staffed for much of the day as a result of Traveltrain services (assist with baggage, onloading/offloading baggage/cargo, etc).

@HTG, IIRC some stations on the Caboolture/Sunshine Coast Line share the same staff iirc.  Example being the Beerwah-Glasshouse-Landsborough staff being in the same pool (eg log on for Glasshouse morning shift, then move over to Landsborough in the afternoon).  Another example (not sure if they do it now or not) is the Burpengary and Morayfield staff.

[techblitz]

staff at stations are alsohandy when you need to top up your go-card with coins. To open up the toilets for a quick in&out when they are locked (yes sometimes you will see locked toilets when there are staff present)

Certain outer suburban stations which have a consistent record of hooliganism need to be staffed/ monitored by security.

Some off the top of my head would be: ferny grove,wynnum central,mitchelton,sandgate,,manly,goodna,redbank,morayfield,caboolture,petrie,toombul,cleveland,ipswich,woodridge,loganlea,helensvale,Strathpine,zillmere,beenleigh.

Majority of which are near major shopping centres,bus stations or cbd precints.

[ozbob]

Yes good comment.  Simply removing staff without proper consideration of security aspects as applicable is not wise.

I think they need to see if something can be done about toilet access as well, at least during daylight hours for the stations not staffed.

[HappyTrainGuy]

@arnz yep. Northgate-Petrie staff also rotate between each other. Some stations might have their own permanent based staff due to different rostering configurations (like arnz and myself highlighted - permanent based staff for the first shift with the roaming staff taking over the afternoon to closing shift. Other stations might have 2 shifts with staff - First service to midday then midday to 8pm) but it all really depends on the line and the stations that sorts out the crewing rosters for the area.

Zillmere is just a crappy suburb so there are always people playing up around the station. Unfortunately as a result they get on the trains (at night) at Zillmere and get off at Strathpine, Bray Park, Lawnton or Petrie and vice versa.

[SurfRail]

Helensvale is the busiest station on the Gold Coast, the 10th busiest station on the system and is completely unmanned after 7pm, allegedly because of "security" problems.  Apparently not having staff there makes it better...

[#Metro]

That's one thing I don't like about GoCard. Melbourne accepts whatever you throw into the machine in cash. Go Card wants neat increments of $10, $20, $30 and is too fussy. Melbourne allows you to dump whatever coins into the machine and have that credited. What can't it be the same here?