Redcliffe Peninsula Line [was MBRL (Petrie to Kippa Ring)]

[ozbob]

Unmitigated disaster is probably a  fair comment IMHO.

I think constraining QR as they have indicated is all part of the plan to hive it off as a franchise ala Metro Melbourne.  The big cuts are still to be announced, probably waiting for the budget in an attempt to minimise grief with all the other bad / good news of sorts.

[colinw]

Yeah, because screwing up your Government railway and killing off all in-house capability has worked just so well at driving costs down everywhere else in the world.  :conf

[somebody]

Collectively this Government appears determined to behave like a bunch of complete bloody fools.

Can Do.

I already think there should be a night of the long knives.

[#Metro]

I don't think it is so bad. I mean, we don't see BT building busways do we?

Liaising with QR is a must though as they have the operational know how to do these things.

[SurfRail]

I don't think it is so bad. I mean, we don't see BT building busways do we?

Liaising with QR is a must though as they have the operational know how to do these things.

A busway is just a road.  A railway, particularly one hooked into QR's legacy network, is very bespoke.  I suspect this is one of the reasons why QR will have to continue to be responsible for the rail network timetabling - not quite as simple a job as running a network like Perths, where the PTA can be separate from the other rail operators.

I can't understand their reasoning at all on procurement here.  The alliance model worked where the contractor was allowed to do what it thought best (eg Caboolture to Beerburrum).  The problems entered into it where TMR popped in (stopping at Beerburrum, mucking up Darra-Corinda etc).

[somebody]

What did TMR do to Darra-Corinda?

[SurfRail]

What did TMR do to Darra-Corinda?

Bob will probably be better placed to answer that.

[ozbob]

Didn't allow the preferred solution - particularly improved arrangements at Corinda, 4th line fully electrified, 4th platform at Oxley. (Could have been easily achieved within the funding allocated for the project).

I am presently at Darra, babysitting watching the trains criss-cross at Pannard.  I teaching my 11 month old granddaughter to say "Queenslander!" every time the cross occurs ...  wtg!!   

[somebody]

The proposed flyover was easily achieved within the budget?  Or are you referring to different arrangements there.

[ozbob]

To fully electrify the up sub some work was needed at Corinda.  The flyover at Corinda was dismissed very early on.

Corinda, electrification and 4th platform at Oxley could have been achieved if idiots were not around.

The present arrangement is a testament to mediocrity, if there ever was one.

Darra station itself is a joke,  all in all a typical Queensland effort all round!

And there was Oxley ... lol

I hope MBRL doesn't end up similarly botched ...

[somebody]

Ok, but without the flyover at Corinda different arrangements should have been implemented at Darra West.  Not sure who is to blame for that.

[ozbob]

The Minister for Transport was on Drive 612 ABC Radio this afternoon, and reiterated essentially what is in the statement.  Also said he thought today's article was a bit mischievous, as he (Minister) had talks with the Federal Transport in July and had put out a joint statement indicating that MBRL was to proceed.

[ozbob]

The Minister for Transport was on Drive 612 ABC Radio this afternoon, and reiterated essentially what is in the statement.  Also said he thought today's article was a bit mischievous, as he (Minister) had talks with the Federal Transport in July and had put out a joint statement indicating that MBRL was to proceed.

During the interview he stated that he wanted Queensland Rail to concentrate on running trains and maintenance.  He also said that the Newman LNP government was concentrating on affordability, frequency and reliability.

1. Affordability - simply followed the flawed Labor fare system essentially.  7.5% increases on top of 65% over the past 4 years is excessive for most.

2. Frequency - no evidence other than the notional pork barrel on the Ferny Grove line, possibly in October. Does nothing for the rest of the network and will possibly cause flow on issues as there seems to be problems with train and crew numbers.

3. Reliability - it seems that units are failing frequently, and still no dramatic overall improvement in reliability.  I think it will take a while yet to catch up on the maintenance deficit.

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail Quest click here!

Moreton Bay rail link is a budget "must" say new State members

Moreton Bay rail link is a budget "must" say new State members

    by: Staff writers, Redcliffe Herald
    From: Quest Newspapers
    September 05, 2012 12:00AM

The Moreton Bay Rail Link, from Petrie to Kippa-Ring, has been listed as a State Government Budget must by the region's newly-elected members.

Member for Redcliffe Scott Driscoll said it was ``the biggest issue for the Redcliffe community'' and was "a must" for this year's budget.

"No other state electorate has locked in, and kept locked in, funding for a project of this size,'' said Mr Driscoll.

"This project will not only provide a much-needed rail link for Redcliffe residents but will encourage tourists to visit the Peninsula and will create local jobs.''

Member for Murrumba Reg Gulley said the community would benefit from the rail link and improvements to bus service networks.

"Through delivering better infrastructure and public transport in our local area, people will be provided with cost-effective, more efficient transport alternatives.

"It is essential that we continue to cut the cost of living expenses for people in our community.''

Member for Pine Rivers Seath Holswich said he was pushing a number of funding issues, but ``didn't necessarily expect them in this year's budget''.

"We committed prior to the election to installing electronic variable speed limits signs outside schools - 70 over four years if my memory is correct. I have put my case forward for Pine Rivers schools to be part of that roll-out,'' Mr Holswich said.

He supports a bridge at Youngs Crossing but is not expecting any money towards it and is committed to promoting a second railway bridge across the North Pine River to provide a third track between Lawnton and Petrie.

Member for Kallangur Trevor Ruthenberg said funding for improved infrastructure at Dakabin train station and maintenance of local schools were his priorities in the State Budget.

"I have not back flipped in my resolve to fight for a solution to the parking issue at Dakabin train station and the platform,'' he said.

Mr Ruthenberg said, ``even before the budget is announced I have delivered in high priority areas for our community,'' including extra police officers, respite services and repairing the Boundary Rd bridge.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Parking at Dakabin should be well down on the list of priorties. How about fixing the bus network from Petrie for starters to hook into the massive influx of services during peak hour that stop there.

[colinw]

Agree that the emphasis by the MPs on tourism is bunk. This line will be like any other suburban commuter line, primarily used for the daily commute with a proportion of discretionary travel and a small number of tourists & day trippers.

The quality of bus links from Kippa-Ring to the rest of Redcliffe will be critical.

The busiest station on the line is likely to be Mango Hill, and the section of line from Petrie to Mango Hill is worth the price of admission alone. I expect Kippa-Ring to be the 2nd busiest, then Kallangur, Rothwell and the others.  Kinsella's Road is probably unnecessary at this time, and it is somewhat laughable that it will be built when Ellen Grove on the Springfield line is not.

[somebody]

The reference to tourism is a rubbish, this line will be like Bondi Jnct, stopping 2-3km short of where the tourists want to go. It needs to built in such a way that in future a cut and cover tunnel under Anzac Pde can be done with the final station at Redcliffe. This will also eliminate the need for a large amount of parking as it will dramatically increase the "walkable" catchment.

Redcliffe is still a Moreton Bay beach, not an ocean beach.  Is there really that much demand to there?

[HappyTrainGuy]

There is a massive price to pay for that. Something that the local council and state government can't fund. Anzac ave is the main road through Redcliffe. Basically it would be the same as closing Gympie Road while they built the busway/Airport link. Not an option. The fact that there is massive shopping centre complexes and industrial realestate in the way would be very problematic. Buses are already running very quickly anyway and would stop at more destinations such as the hospital, shops and a larger catchment to residential areas (I'd go as far as saying Redcliffe-Kippa Ring already has a better bus network for the community than what Brisbane has to offer. They just lack the running hours. Currently between Peninsula Fair and Redcliffe is the 2bph 660, 2bph 696 (only to Redcliffe), 2bph 697 (only from Redcliffe), 1bph 680 with the 2bph 693 and 2bph 694 (both operate as loop routes, similar to the 696/697) are able to be reconfigured to run between Redcliffe-Peninsula Fair). Having a cut and cover tunnel would also mean more property resumptions, relocating the station and stabling so it can dive under anzac ave. Elevating it would be an option but grades from the station across Anzac ave would mean poor alignment/more property resumptions, relocating Kippa Ring station and moving the stabling aswell. There are also noise issues with the majority of the rollingstock when they are elevated and going through a main residential area would bring up some big issues more so than the Airport line does. Whatever way you look at it, its not as easy as it sounds extending the railway line. Maybe in the future when the EMUs and SMU200s are phased out and there's some spare cash floating around it might be an option to elevate the line.

Edit: I forgot to add the 690 also runs between Peninsula Fair and Redcliffe but it goes via Scarborough first Once the Kippa Ring line comes online Redcliffe-Scarborough-Rothwell needs a kick in the ass when it comes to providing bus services similar to how Redcliffe-Woody Point, Clontarf, Margate, Kippa Ring is ran.

[colinw]

The Redcliffe and Sandgate foreshore areas are quite popular with day trippers on weekends. Try getting a park at Sandgate on a Sunday morning and you'll see what I mean.

[Golliwog]

I remember going to the big trees up on the foreshore at Redcliffe many a time as a kid. Great fun to climb. We used to ride bikes along the front as it was pretty flat. Good fish n' chips too. As Colinw said, its a good day trip location.

HTG: If you were to tunnel under Anzac ave, youd do it like the light rail station shell on the GC. Bore piles and cast the roof slab, then reinstate traffic on top while you then dig out from under it. You would only need two-three lane widths so it wouldn't be a full closure and you could probably make Anzac ave 1 way on the remains and run George st 1 way the other way. Wouldn't be popular with George St residents but it would be only temporary.

[SurfRail]

It could be done as an elevated line with little difficulty.  The problem would be that you probably would need a cut and cover tunnel to get from the Kippa-Ring station to the middle of ANZAC Rd.

Doing it that way would lead to the station being at Peninsula Fair itself, which is more logical.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Its not impossible for a cut and cover tunnel but traffic managment and support roads would have to be up to it. Especially on works at the Anzac Ave/Broadman Road intersection. Whenever there are delays on Anzac ave it just has a huge knock on effect all across Redcliffe, Clontarf, Deception Bay and Mango Hill (not as much since the third lane along Anzac Ave at Rothwell was installed but prior/during those works it wasn't uncommon) as traffic from a 6 lane road and multiple 4 lane roads tries to filter into 2 lane roads using local suburban streets and even single lane exits.

Yes. Thanks for pointing out what happens in New York. This is Redcliffe. Two massive and totally different areas.

I'll advise some people to actually check out the area just to see the traffic flows/supporting roads, drainage/local storm water drains/surges, elevation changes and then factor in the safeworkings for trains such as clearences, grades and possible station locations. You'll quickly find out that it's not a quick and simple extension.

[colinw]

I'm expecting Kippa-Ring to be a Cleveland & (new) Ferny Grove style station, built across the end of the line.

Realistically this line + bus connections is it, unless we wish to start foaming about dual voltage tram/trains running down Anzac Ave.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Realistically this line + bus connections is it

I see that as the only reasonable and affordable option to be honest. You just have to drive down Anzac ave to see the evelation changes to realise cut and cover under a road won't be as simple as it sounds or from looking at nearmap and an elevated track with the current rollingstock and elevation changes raises more issues than it fixes. Futher down the line an elevated track might be possible but don't expect locals near it to be all for it when its even higher to keep the high vehicle clearences and to minimise the grades that the trains would have to take for the evelation changes along Anzac Ave.

I'm expecting Kippa-Ring to be a Cleveland & (new) Ferny Grove style station, built across the end of the line.

A map of the proposed layout. Looks like the station building will be built to the side. Detailed maps haven't been made public as the tender process is still ongoing and at different stages.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/1366ba36-07f8-44a1-b6c7-293286d9ba6d/kipparingstation.pdf


Edit: Meant to post this earlier about the project but didn't have time.

Current Status:
• Major change - TMR now delivering the whole project
• TMR becomes the Principal in the contract and asset owner for rail
related works
• Queensland Rail is a stakeholder and will not be allowed to bid for rail
systems design / construction
• Early works - Kinsellas Road East bridge and approaches
• awarded in June 2012
• completion expected in early 2013
• The Dohles Rocks and Goodfellows Road bridge (DRGR) tender
process stopped
• The DRGR package of works now included as part of the rail contract.

[HappyTrainGuy]

If it was to be done for road expansion or some other similar reason, it would happen. The managed to expand the Gateway doing similar levels of complex work. 2 years of moving congestion on a major road. Brisbane survived.

Yep. It survived all right. At one hell of a cost with tolls. Its also now why cyclists can ride the windy 13km bike track from Toombul to Boondall faster than a car can on 10km of 80-100kph motorway 

Nice to hear that a very high density city like NY can manage similar work, but a road on the outer ends of Brisbane cannot! We wonder why things don't happen here.

"very high density city like NY can manage similar work, but a road on the outer ends of Brisbane cannot!" Bingo. Its a combo of multiple factors. Does NY have multiple councils covering areas? Nope. Does Queensland have multiple councils covering areas? Yep. The powers the operator has. Surrounding works needed. Destinations. The patronage return. It all plays a part.

Is it viable at this time, of course not. What I originally commented on is that its not going to feature strongly on local tourist traffic finishing where it does.

I understand what your getting at but the cost outweights the return of a Kippa Ring to Redcliffe extension. In the future and I mean well into the future it might be an option but I see train + bus combo being the best affordable option to expect long term.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Design delays for Moreton Bay Rail Link, but finishing date still 2016

[ozbob]

Twitter

1m Julia Gillard ‏@JuliaGillard

Visiting the construction site of the 12.6km Moreton Bay Rail Link project. TeamJG http://t.co/EXs7Dfs8

[ozbob]

Purely hypothetical ....

What if they bypassed Petrie station and made Lawnton the junction station for MBRL as another ' economy ' measure. 

What do you think of that?

(heard a rumour .. )

[somebody]

Purely hypothetical ....

What if they bypassed Petrie station and made Lawnton the junction station for MBRL as another ' economy ' measure. 

What do you think of that?

(heard a rumour .. )

Huh?  How can it be a junction without a new river crossing of the N Pine R?  Without grade sep there would be conflicting moves.

The only thing which makes any sense would be making Lawnton a centre turnback for all stoppers and have the KR & CAB trains run express NG-Lawnton at least in peak.  Which has some merit.  Otherwise, it's a total thought bubble.

[colinw]

How the heck would Lawnton as junction work?

If you wanted to do that, you would have to split from 3 to 4 tracks just down from Lawnton, then build a new dual track bridge to the east of the existing bridge. After the bridge it still has to pass through the area of Petrie station, requiring changes to the car park on the east side of the station, so there may as well be platforms on the new line here.

Lawnton as junction would only serve to make the line more expensive!

[SurfRail]

^ Can't see how any of that is going to work unless they resume the Amcor plant and somehow magically get the line to cross Gympie Road before the current rail overpass.

No conceivable advantage that I can determine.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Purely hypothetical ....

What if they bypassed Petrie station and made Lawnton the junction station for MBRL as another ' economy ' measure. 

What do you think of that?

(heard a rumour .. )

I hope not but I also doubt it a bit. There is room to make it 4 tracks at Lawnton station (the whole corridor is reserved with space available for a quad) with a flat junction just before the river and to snake it across the river over Gympie road, maybe resume the sports ground and back past Petrie (obviously slightly elevated) and then resume normal running (think Airport style through Toombul). Depending on the plans for Petrie and how it connects to the Lawnton-Petrie works it could be a cheaper option.... but a worse option.

[DayboroStation]

Lawnton a junction or a terminus? A terminus for the peak all-station services perhaps (especially while there are only 2 tracks across the North Pine River), but a junction just doesn't make sense to me. Petrie already has made some provisions for a fourth platform (eg fairly new pedestrian bridge), so Petrie as a junction for the MBRL would seem the most logical.

[colinw]

Railway Gazette International -> Moreton Bay branch gets underway

29 November 2012

AUSTRALIA: Four consortia have been shortlisted to develop 'innovative' proposals for the long-planned Moreton Bay Rail Link in Queensland, serving the coastal region northeast of Brisbane.

Under discussion for many years, the A$1·15bn project was accelerated by Prime Minister Julia Gillard in 2010, leading to a signing of an agreement between the federal and state governments in December that year. Completion is planned by the end of 2016.

The electrified outer-suburban branch would diverge from Queensland Rail's north-south main line just north of Petrie, where most suburban services now terminate, and run east for 12·6 km to Kippa-Ring, with intermediate stations at Kallangur, Murrumba Downs, Mango Hill, Kinsellas Rd (North Lakes) and Rothwell.

The four shortlisted bidders are Abigroup Contractors, Theiss, John Holland Queensland with Leighton Contractors, and a Salini-Bielby-Winslow joint venture. They been asked to present their initial proposals in December, and two will then be invited to submit final tenders with the contract to be awarded by mid-to-late 2013.

Much of the land required for the line has already been acquired by the Queensland Department of Transport & Main Roads or local authorities, and initial works are already getting underway along sections of the alignment, including several road bridges. Conceptual design of the stations is also in progress.

"Petrie, where most suburban services now terminate"?

[Jonno]

The four shortlisted bidders are Abigroup Contractors, Theiss, John Holland Queensland with Leighton Contractors, and a Salini-Bielby-Winslow joint venture. They been asked to present their initial proposals in December, and two will then be invited to submit final tenders with the contract to be awarded by mid-to-late 2013.

And we wonder why it is costing so much to build. The bid costs alone are massive as all 4 are asked to come up with details design propsoals.

[colinw]

What is sad is that Queensland Rail almost certainly has already done detailed design for the line from the last time it nearly got up.  And they aren't even allowed to bid the thing, despite the excellent performance of TrackStar on Cab - Beerburrum and Corinda - Darra - Springfield.

Queensland - The Stupid State

[HappyTrainGuy]

I know QR already has their rough ideal layout for MBRL and the extra bridge to Lawnton with planning/designing done by Aecom I think it was over the years. I bet we get a half baked cheaper option.

[Golliwog]

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Featured-projects/Moreton-Bay-Rail-Link/In-your-area.aspx#kipparing

Progress – Kippa-Ring Station

Planning has progressed for the Kippa-Ring Station precinct. The project team has worked with a design company to ensure that Kippa-Ring Station fits into the local community and provides a safe, modern and welcoming environment for all users. As a result, the station will be located closer to Anzac Avenue than originally planned. The station will be relocated about 70m to the east where it will be closer to the Kippa-Ring commercial precinct. This will improve station visibility and community safety while connecting users to the nearby retail and commercial areas. It will also support future transit-oriented development and regeneration of Kippa-Ring.

The project team has worked with key stakeholders—including Moreton Bay Regional Council, Queensland Rail, TransLink and the Department of State Development, Infrastructure and Planning—to determine the best layouts and access routes, minimise environmental impacts and make best use of the land available for the station.

Detailed traffic modelling has been carried out to assist in the design of station access. The project team will work with Moreton Bay Regional Council to develop parking management strategies in the local area.

The layout has been provided to the project's tenderers who will continue the design of the station and rail line throughout 2012 and into 2013.

Information is available on the station relocation in the Kippa-Ring project report and factsheets.

The project team will be available to answer questions at Peninsula Fair Shopping Centre, Kippa-Ring on the following dates:

    Thursday 6 December, 4–7pm
    Saturday 8 December, 9am–12pm.

Kippa Ring Project Update: http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Projects/Featured%20projects/kipparingprojectupdate.pdf

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail Quest click here!

Concrete milestone lowered in to place for new Moreton Bay Rail Link

Concrete milestone lowered in to place for new Moreton Bay Rail Link

    by: Samantha Healy, North Lakes Times
    From: Quest Newspapers
    December 17, 2012 12:00AM

Giant concrete girders were lifted in to position on the new Kinsellas Road East bridge last week in a milestone for the $1.147 billion Moreton Bay Rail Link.

The steel-lined and concrete-filled girders are a key visible part of the first major construction project for the new rail link.

Photographer Chris Higgins and on-site engineer Emma Jackson covered the arrival and installation of the giant girders.

When completed, the bridge will provide one lane in each direction, cycle lanes, a pedestrian footpath, a new roundabout at the intersection with Mango Hill Boulevard and a new road connection at Kinsellas Road East with Anzac Avenue.

The bridge is being built to the east of the existing road and will one day connect with the North South Urban Arterial, a proposed link between Bald Hills to Mango Hill.

It is expected to be completed mid year with construction of the rail corridor, including the tracks, structures and six new stations, to start in the second half on 2013.

The new rail link is expected to be completed in late 2016.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Some land clearing has happened in some parts with most corridor work being focused around this area. Construction is well and truly pushing ahead. ~400m of the corridor looks ready to lay track tomorrow. The basic main structure and road layout of the bridge is complete. Progress is moving forward on the next stage of construction on the bridge and road layout. This part of the corridor is very straight so there should be some high speeds to follow compared to the current bus network.

Old and the new. Its a steep approach but it has absolutly nothing when compared to the Francis Road overpass.


Work progressing on the Eastern side.


The overpass.


The railway corridor approaching the bridge (on the right) from the North Lakes station direction.