Redcliffe Peninsula Line [was MBRL (Petrie to Kippa Ring)]

[HappyTrainGuy]

Curve radius and with the spur alignment.

[Jonno]

Twitter

Transport Main Roads ‏@TMRQld 15m

These aerial pics were taken in September. Picture below is Mango Hill East station and Mango Hill station.

The car parking is just a stupid low value use of that land The1970's were last century as is our transport planning - http://www.humantransit.org/2014/10/basics-the-math-of-park-and-ride.html

[BrizCommuter]

The car parking is just a stupid low value use of that land The1970's were last century as is our transport planning - http://www.humantransit.org/2014/10/basics-the-math-of-park-and-ride.html

So what is your solution then for these train stations Jonno?
Note that these train stations (added retrospectively after urban development) are not near established commercial centres, are surrounded by low density (urban sprawl) housing, and communities that are sadly already car dependant.

Large car parks (and they probably could be larger) and drop off/pick up circles are the lesser of two evils compared to people driving all the way into Brisbane's CBD. Feeder buses are required, but running an attractive high frequency service to low density housing is difficult to financially justify.

[red dragin]

And the winding streets and roundabouts, particularly in North Lakes aren't very bus friendly either.

Jonno, best not to look at a picture of the Murrumba Downs car park (1000 spaces) if your not a fan of those two (around 200-300).

My car will most likely be in one of those 1000 spaces.

[#Metro]

Under Land Value Tax, providing lots of sprawly car parks would be more expensive because not only would there be land acquisition costs but also loss of revenues each year the space was not at the highest and best use.

When things are not priced properly, they tend to be wasted. European cities do not waste land the way Australian cities do. The standard there is 4-5 storeys MINIMUM everywhere.

[ozbob]

Once the line opens.  I wonder how long it will be before the first ' not enough car parks ' story is launched in the local media   

We should run a sweep ...   

[Golliwog]

Also, re the above, at Mango Hill Station, just off the bottom of that picture, the land between Mango Hill Blvd West, Halpine Drive and the Coles shopping center is being developed currently into townhouses (granted not high density, but not low either), and once the project is complete, my understanding is the land between Halpine, Mango Hill Blvd West and that station access road is to be sold off to a developer, so again either medium density living, commercial or some combo of the two. Not sure if anything is proposed for the land between the access road and the train line though.

[Jonno]

Sprawl Repair

http://www.planetizen.com/node/46481

Sprawl Repair: What It Is and Why We Need It

Monday, October 18, 2010 - 10:26am PDT by
GALINA TACHIEVA
19  10  4
Sprawl repair should be pursued using a comprehensive method based on urban design, regulation, and strategies for funding and incentives – the same instruments that made sprawl the prevalent form of development, says Galina Tachieva, director of town planning at Duany Plater-Zyberk and Company. 

Galina Tachieva.Sprawl is malfunctioning. It has underperformed for decades, but its collapse has become obvious with the recent mortgage meltdown and economic crisis, and its abundance magnifies the problems of its failure.

Let us be clear that sprawl and suburbia are not synonymous. There are many first-generation suburbs, most of them built before WWII, that function well, primarily because they are compact, walkable, and have a mix of uses. Sprawl, on the other hand, is characterized by auto-dependence and separation of uses. It is typically found in suburban areas, but it also affects the urban parts of our cities and towns.

Sprawl's defects are not limited to economics. Sprawl is central to our inefficient use of land, energy, and water, and to increased air and water pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, and the loss of open space and natural habitats. Because it requires a car to reach every destination, it is also to blame for time wasted in traffic, the exponential increase in new infrastructure costs, and health problems such as obesity. Social problems have also been linked to sprawl's isolation and lack of diversity.

Sprawl developments, particularly those in the far-flung exurbs, have recently suffered some of the highest rates of foreclosure. Many homes, and even entire subdivisions, have been abandoned.

Sprawl's future, if current patterns continue, appears no better. Its built form does not serve new and developing markets, providing neither the diversity and stimulation desired by the younger Millennial generation nor the convenience needed by their parents, the Baby Boomers. As Christopher Leinberger has written, many of the car-dependent suburbs on the fringes, unwalkable and poorly served by public transit, "will become magnets for poverty, crime, and social dysfunction."

The party is over.

But we need to house the additional 100 million souls expected to populate this country by 2050.

So what do we do?



a standard mall, surrounded by parking lots.
A mall as it exists today.


the same mall as before, but transformed.
A proposal for turning the mall into a Main Street.

The options

The first option is to continue building greenfield sprawl, but that is how we got ourselves into this predicament, and one would hope we have now learned our lesson.

The second option is to abandon existing sprawl. This will not be possible either, as the expanse of sprawl represents a vast investment (of money, of course, but also of infrastructure, time, human energy, and dreams). It also offers opportunities for reuse, and cannot be simply discarded or demolished.

The only valid option is to repair sprawl – to deal with it straight on, by finding ways to reuse and reorganize as much of it as possible into complete, livable, robust communities. Pragmatism calls for the repair of sprawl through redevelopment that creates viable human settlements, places that are walkable, with mixed uses and transportation options. Pragmatism also demands we acknowledge, however, that portions of sprawl may remain in their current state, while others may devolve, reverting to agriculture or nature.

a block full of oversized houses on large lots.
A block of McMansions on large lots.


the same block, with backyards turned into buildings.
Underused backyards are transformed into infill.

Why sprawl repair is imperative

We need sprawl repair because change will not happen on its own. Sprawl is extremely inflexible in its physical form, and will not naturally mature into walkable environments. Without precise design and policy interventions, sprawl might morph somewhat – a strip shopping center might be scrapped and replaced with a lifestyle center when the next owner comes along – but it is unlikely to produce diverse, sustainable urbanism. It is imperative that we repair sprawl consciously and methodically, through design, policy, and incentives. We need sprawl repair because, in spite of the endless challenges, many opportunities exist. The time is right to deal with sprawl now. Energy costs are rising, meaning long commutes are becoming unaffordable. A changing climate compels us to pollute less. We need to increase physical activity to overcome the epidemic of obesity and chronic diseases. Entire residential and commercial developments are failing. These are the obvious justifications for sprawl repair. But there are other reasons that, while less obvious are equally compelling.

Some of these reasons are economic. For decades, the common wisdom was that exurban residential and commercial development was good for municipalities because of increased property tax revenues. The truth, however, is that municipalities spend much more to expand and maintain suburban infrastructure than they receive in increased revenues. Walkable urbanism, on the other hand, is a much better deal for municipalities. A study in Sarasota, Florida, shows that the county tax yield per acre from an urban mixed-use project is a staggering 3,500 percent more than the tax yield from a suburban mall.

The development industry also has few incentives to continue exurban expansion with lending stalled, property values plummeting, and commuting costs increasing. The market, fortunately, is heading in another direction.

The Baby Boomers and Millenials are creating a major shift in the housing market. Together they represent more than 135 million people, many of them with an orientation toward diverse, compact urbanism.

The population of 21st-century suburbia is very different from the stereotype of 50 years ago that depicted the suburbs as populated by predominantly white, middle-class families with children. The growing presence of ethnic minorities accustomed to driving less and living and working in less space, will contribute to new opportunities for sprawl repair through the engagement of a diverse, multiethnic citizenry.

Sprawl repair also provides the opportunity for economic development. Employment decentralization is a fact, and most businesses are located outside of city limits. Existing single-use, auto-oriented employment and commercial hubs can be redeveloped into complete communities with balanced uses and transportation options. Existing jobs can be saved, and new jobs, many of them green, can be created in the process of – and as a result of – transforming sprawl.

In addition to economic reasons for sprawl repair, the regulatory environment that supports sprawl has already begun to change. Form-based codes have been approved in hundreds of municipalities around the U.S. This shift in the regulatory framework makes smart growth development legal again and assists sprawl repair initiatives.

Regional and statewide planning practices can provide discipline and coordination on a large scale. Many counties, whole regions, and even entire states have already embraced policies that do not foster sprawl, making the repair of sprawling suburbs more feasible, as public resources are channeled to incentivize sustainable growth. In the six-county metropolitan region of Sacramento, California, an association of local governments completed a "Blueprint for the Future." The plan addresses growth through 2050, and encourages compact developments near mass transit, thus saving billions of dollars that would otherwise be needed for freeways, utilities, and other infrastructure. Statewide projects such as Louisiana Speaks endeavor to create coordinated solutions for growth and outline opportunities for infill and repair.

Even at the federal level, agencies have come together to address growth in a holistic, multi-disciplinary manner that should help with sprawl repair. The HUD-DOT-EPA interagency partnership for sustainable communities will coordinate federal housing, transportation, and other infrastructure investments to protect the environment, promote equitable development, and help address the challenges of climate change. This is an opportunity for sprawl repair initiatives to be combined with federal funding, and possibly legislation.

Market forces, policies, and incentives, however, will not be sufficient to achieve the regeneration of our unsustainable suburbs. We also need specific strategies and design techniques.

a suburban drive-through restaurant.
A suburban drive-through restaurant.


New buildings have surrounded the drive-through.
New building wraps the drive-through to meet the street.

How to Repair Sprawl

Sprawl has been aggressively promoted and encouraged, and the approach to repair must be the same. It should start soon, because despite the severity of the building industry meltdown, development has not stopped, and it is urgent that such activity be redirected to places that have potential for redevelopment – defunct malls, failing office parks and residential subdivisions, empty parking lots, abandoned golf courses – rather than to building more sprawl.

Sprawl repair should be pursued using a comprehensive method based on urban design, regulation, and strategies for funding and incentives – the same instruments that made sprawl the prevalent form of development. Repair should be addressed at all urban scales, from the region down to the community and the building. Strategies should range from identifying potential transportation networks and creating transit-connected urban cores to transforming dead malls into town centers, reconfiguring conventional suburban blocks into walkable fabric, and adapting and expanding of single structures. The sprawl repair method should identify deficiencies in typical elements of sprawl and determine the best remedial techniques for those deficiencies. Rather than the instant and total overhaul of communities, as promoted so destructively in American cities half a century ago, this should be a strategy for incremental and opportunistic improvement.

Sprawl must be fixed. The good news is that we have the tools to do it. Rather than focus on the problems, let's get to work.

Galina Tachieva is a partner and director of town planning at the central office of Duany Plater-Zyberk & Company, in Miami, Florida and the author of the Sprawl Repair Manual. For two decades, she has designed and implemented human-scale, sustainable communities around the world, from downtowns to retrofits.

[#Metro]

There is a contradiction within the sustainability movement, and that is you cannot have both a high level of restriction and regulation on new constructions, particularly within already-built-up areas, and restrict the boundary of the city at the same time (whether through legislative means or physical constraint such as mountains or by virtue of being on an island).

There is an unchallenged idea that only if new dwellings were restricted, people would stop coming and we could somehow stabilise the population with a certain political area. This is not possible in a society like ours. If buildings are not constructed in the built-up area, they will still come anyway, and in doing so, drive land and house prices through the roof, rents skyrocket and you have an extraordinary crisis on a massive scale. People convert their garages, lofts in roofs, storerooms, spaces under stairs, backyard cabins, and if it gets really bad (like london) sell tents in living rooms.

San Franciso is perhaps the textbook example of this. The city cannot sprawl out because you cannot build in the sea/bay. Land and rental prices are just insane there.

See here http://priceonomics.com/the-san-francisco-rent-explosion-part-iii/

For some context, if you make $100,000 per year, a three bedroom in San Francisco would eat up 100% of your post-tax salary. So, if you want to live in San Francisco, you can forget about having kids (AKA "roommates who stiff you on the rent each month"), or even about having a profession that's only modestly lucrative.

Australian and US cities waste an immense amount of land on regulatory mandates like parking space. One wonders how European cities cope? Land is also underpriced, with full exemption from land tax of residential homes (which further inflates the price as local improvements like rail construction, are made).

We have seen this in Brisbane with the Cedar Woods proposal. People don't want it in the city on environmental grounds, but they don't want it far outside the city as sprawl in Yarrabilba on environmental grounds either. Where is the house supposed to go? In space?

[ozbob]

Media release 21st October 2015



SEQ Moreton Bay Rail: Miss the Bus, Miss the Train

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers is deeply concerned about the lack of public consultation or advice about what the Moreton Bay region's public transport network will look like when the Moreton Bay Rail Link is opened in 2016.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Recent rail extensions to Varsity Lakes, Richlands and Springfield Central have all involved poor outcomes for bus – train interchange, with limited or no upgrades to bus services.  In some cases bus network changes occurred several months out of phase with the train service changes, and in the case of Springfield Central it has been nearly 2 years and there has been no attention to the inadequacies of the local routes like the 522."

"Even the opening of the Gold Coast light rail project was plagued with problems which have still not been resolved, including several 'connecting' bus routes like the 743 not even operating after 5pm and leaving entire suburbs unconnected to the wider system."

"Over $1bn is being spent on MBRL, yet we don't know how often the trains will run, what the stopping pattern will be, where connecting bus routes will go, how frequently they will run and how late at night they will run?  This is absurd."

"The Moreton Bay bus network is currently one of the most woefully under-serviced regions in SEQ, with many services not running after sunset and many not running on weekends or on Sundays and public holidays.  Even trunk routes like the 680 are critically under-serviced compared to other outer parts of the system in Logan and Ipswich."

"TransLink and Queensland Rail's recent form gives us little comfort that the same issues which arose during the last 3 rail extensions and the light rail opening will be dealt with adequately here.  The public needs to know what is proposed and there needs to be genuine consultation about timetables and route planning well before the first trains start carrying passengers.  Ignoring the problem until the last minute, as usual, is utterly unacceptable."

"RAIL Back On Track calls on TransLink and Queensland Rail to immediately commence a public consultation program to set out proposed timetable and route changes for both bus and train services so the public can be consulted appropriately.  The changes should only be finalised for implementation after it has properly engaged with the public and not simply 'managed expectations'."

"RAIL Back On Track also calls on TransLink and Treasury to ensure that the bus network is designed to grow local patronage and encourage bus-rail interchange, and not just pay lip service to these goals. A top-down approach to route planning intended to ration the existing resources will result in further failure."

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[red dragin]

Does anyone think there might be a minor reduction in Shorncliffe patronage, with fewer people driving across from the Peninsula to Sandgate, instead heading to Kippa Ring?

It's 4km from the point at Clontarf to Kippa Ring station, versus 8km from Clontarf to Sandgate Station.

[SurfRail]

Depends on the timing and on parking availability.  Some people may still be better off heading to Sandgate, but it isn't just about the southern peninsula of course.

[Gazza]

When the line opens I hope the 310/315 get a major shakeup.

Im keen to see a Sandgate to Kippa (Via Margate and Redcliffe) linked with a 30 min frequency feeder, with the idea that it would have bidirectional demand and passengers could just travel to either train station, depending on their preference and travel needs.

[pandmaster]

When the line opens I hope the 310/315 get a major shakeup.

Im keen to see a Sandgate to Kippa (Via Margate and Redcliffe) linked with a 30 min frequency feeder, with the idea that it would have bidirectional demand and passengers could just travel to either train station, depending on their preference and travel needs.

I like the cut of your jib.

[newbris]

Does anyone think there might be a minor reduction in Shorncliffe patronage, with fewer people driving across from the Peninsula to Sandgate, instead heading to Kippa Ring?

It's 4km from the point at Clontarf to Kippa Ring station, versus 8km from Clontarf to Sandgate Station.

Is the kippa ring trip forecast to be a lot longer ?

[SurfRail]

I think hour-long journeys from Kippa-ring to Central were being mooted originally, but I expect that would have been all-stations. 

[achiruel]

When the line opens I hope the 310/315 get a major shakeup.

Im keen to see a Sandgate to Kippa (Via Margate and Redcliffe) linked with a 30 min frequency feeder, with the idea that it would have bidirectional demand and passengers could just travel to either train station, depending on their preference and travel needs.

The 310 really has nothing to do with the MBRL, its main purpose is to service Brighton and the section of Sandgate Rd between Virginia & Boondall that's too far from railway stations.

It should probably be truncated at Toombul though.

The 315 OTOH, should probably be scrapped.  Maybe between cutting the 310 at Toombul and scrapping the 315, the 310 frequency/span could be improved.

[SurfRail]

Redesign the local area around Sandgate and Bracken Ridge so the 310 north of Sandgate station becomes, or becomes part of, a local feeder to Sandgate, and then run a single 15 minute frequency service originating at Sandgate down Sandgate Road to Toombul.  Done.

[red dragin]

Does anyone think there might be a minor reduction in Shorncliffe patronage, with fewer people driving across from the Peninsula to Sandgate, instead heading to Kippa Ring?

It's 4km from the point at Clontarf to Kippa Ring station, versus 8km from Clontarf to Sandgate Station.

Is the kippa ring trip forecast to be a lot longer ?

It's about 48 minutes to Petrie now (from Roma St) - dropping Albion, Woolowin, Toombul & Nundah would bring it down to say 45 at a guesstimate. I'd still say around an hour to Kippa Ring.

39 minutes Roma St to Sangdate, 15 minute drive to Clontarf brings you to 54 minutes (ignoring walking to car etc).

Might just pay off for the northern part of the Peninsula. Certainly Rothwell, North Lakes will have an advantage.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Redesign the local area around Sandgate and Bracken Ridge so the 310 north of Sandgate station becomes, or becomes part of, a local feeder to Sandgate, and then run a single 15 minute frequency service originating at Sandgate down Sandgate Road to Toombul.  Done.

Yeah but this is the BCC. Remember how Sandgate/Brighton/Bracken Ridge all got new feeder routes in the 2013 network review Nearly all of the northside routes can be shifted into only a handful of routes.

315 should be cut in favor of more 690 services and extending the 690 into a full loop route through Redcliffe. That would work pretty effectively with all the Redcliffe loop routes as well.

[Gazza]

So here is my thoughts on a simplified Redcliffe bus network.
-Delete those routes that run along the seafront that are 300m away from the Oxley Ave routes...its a joke to have them. Put the resources into focusing frequency.
-Purple and Red are 30 min freq, between KR and Sandgate, with the idea that they draw an 800m pedshed for most of the southern peninsula.
-Green feeds KR for northern peninsula, but offset with red to provide 15 min frequency along Anzac Ave.
-Yellow is a welfare route.
-Blue is local loop.

[red dragin]

Both signals at the bottom of the hill (after the creek) from Petrie towards Kallangur showing red aspects 

[James]

Redesign the local area around Sandgate and Bracken Ridge so the 310 north of Sandgate station becomes, or becomes part of, a local feeder to Sandgate, and then run a single 15 minute frequency service originating at Sandgate down Sandgate Road to Toombul.  Done.

I'd argue that Sandgate Rd between Toombul and Deagon doesn't need anything more than hourly frequency. The part that isn't within reasonable walking distance of the Shorncliffe/Caboolture line is mostly industrial/wetlands, or would have the 325 BUZ (or a replacement) nearby. I've done a few trips on the 310, and it has been poorly patronised on all occasions.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Redesign the local area around Sandgate and Bracken Ridge so the 310 north of Sandgate station becomes, or becomes part of, a local feeder to Sandgate, and then run a single 15 minute frequency service originating at Sandgate down Sandgate Road to Toombul.  Done.

I'd argue that Sandgate Rd between Toombul and Deagon doesn't need anything more than hourly frequency. The part that isn't within reasonable walking distance of the Shorncliffe/Caboolture line is mostly industrial/wetlands, or would have the 325 BUZ (or a replacement) nearby. I've done a few trips on the 310, and it has been poorly patronised on all occasions.

Yep. Sandgate Road from the railway overpass to Nudgee College and some extent Deagon is pretty quiet due to the industrial area and the Golf Course. Very similar to the 335/338/680 along Gympie Road. And even then the surrounding area has other competing routes. The whole northside needs to be revised as its not as simple as changing a few routes here and there or increasing the frequency over there because of the all routes must go to the city idea. Just look at the translink review to see just how many routes were cut and merged to form a single route such as the North loop route (310, 315, 325, 326, 327, 328, 335, 336, 337, 340, 346).

The whole Sandgate Road area can be better provided by having a proper established interchange network which is by far work so easily done on the northside due to the proximity of multiple railway lines and key corridors. Take the planned north loop. If you lived near Nudgee college and wanted to get to the city you could have got on the north loop to Geebung or Boondall railway stations to get a train to the city. If you wanted to get to Chermside you'd stay on the same bus or transfer at Taigum to the city service. What one road lost in coverage from one end to the city was simply shifted onto another more effective transport mode and suddenly backup redundancies was easily in place should there be any issues with the bus or railway network. Instead of getting on twitter or Facebooking QR about the lack rail buses there were other modes to simply shift on to to still get you home. ie if you lived at Boondall and the Shorncliffe line was closed you'd just transfer to the loop route at Geebung or Carseldine railway stations or onto the loop route at Chermside or Taigum bus interchanges. IIRC Sandgate/Bracken Ridge also benefited from redundancies due to its network modifications with a few routes now going Chermside-Strathpine via Bracken Ridge/Carseldine and Zillmere Railway Stations along with the Strathpine-Sandgate Routes. As I said at the time. The 2013 translink review really brought the Brisbane north public transport network into the 21st century. It wasn't perfect but damn there were some advantages to it.

Planned North Loop route.

[Golliwog]

Both signals at the bottom of the hill (after the creek) from Petrie towards Kallangur showing red aspects 

Signals have been being tested for the last week or two. Most are red like that.

This weekends closure should see the overhead through platforms 4 and 5 at Petrie become live.

[Gazza]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zu-pvgqZc2U0.kDo6238yCTQE&usp=sharing

Any thoughts?

[achiruel]

Does the 680 really need to go all the way to Strathpine? I thought Petrie would be a suitable terminus.  And if it is going to Strathpine, it kind of terminates in a weird place 

(P.S. North Lakes is a !@#$ of a suburb to run buses in!

[Gazza]

Does the 680 really need to go all the way to Strathpine? I thought Petrie would be a suitable terminus.  And if it is going to Strathpine, it kind of terminates in a weird place

Blooper on my part. Fixed now.

Basically, the route is so long, and it needs to be split into logical segments.

-Strathpine to Chermside is the one no brainer part, though for tidiness this might be Petrie to Chermside.
-Then you'd have Petrie to Northlakes, basically to act as a rail feeder for residents along the Anzac Ave Corridor, and conversley to ferry those residents to Westfield.
-Then you'd have Northlakes to Redcliffe...basically as a "beach bus".


I don't think North Lakes is too bad actually. Most homes are within reasonable walking distance of Discovery/Endeavour/Bounty Blvd, so basically all the suburb can hang off the one bus loop, and the cul-de-sacs all have walkways through to the main road, so the actual pedestrian walking distances aren't too loopy.

Once the North South Arterial is finished you'd do something like the attached.

[red dragin]

Just came through - Push notification on MyTranslink

Rail
http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/62896/details

Bus
http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/62061/details

[red dragin]

A quick look at my normal morning train see's 5 minutes cut off compared to the current train and 7 minutes shaved off the afternoon service!



They have gone all biggest loser on the timetable!

[Derwan]

From https://www.facebook.com/QueenslandRail/posts/1079474445404248

"In mid-2016 the much anticipated Moreton Bay Rail Link will open."

The previously announced timeline was 1st quarter.  During our tour, the tentative opening date was late January.  Now it's "mid-2016".

[ozbob]

Discussion on timetables >> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11763.msg163399#msg163399

[HappyTrainGuy]

From https://www.facebook.com/QueenslandRail/posts/1079474445404248

"In mid-2016 the much anticipated Moreton Bay Rail Link will open."

The previously announced timeline was 1st quarter.  During our tour, the tentative opening date was late January.  Now it's "mid-2016".

It was first announced as mid 2016 years ago. The 3 big things that always had the potential to prevent it from opening early to the public was 1) drivers qualified to run the route, 2) connecting the spur to the main line due to it requiring more than a weekend closure and 3) NGR.

Edit:

Timeline

    Construction begins on Kinsellas Road East bridge – July 2012
    Tender process for rail design and construction begins – August 2012 
    Kinsellas Road East bridge complete – April 2013
    Rail corridor works begin (track, structures and stations) – January 2014
    New rail line delivered – mid – late 2016

[achiruel]

Just came through - Push notification on MyTranslink

Rail
http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/62896/details

Bus
http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/62061/details

Still no late Saturday night service to Nambour, which is disappointing IMO.

[Fares_Fair]

Yup, 8:33pm is the latest on a Saturday night.. but that's 3 minutes later than the current one 

[red dragin]

Google Maps has updated the "satellite" imagery from Kallangur Station to Kippa Ring Station. Seems quite recent.

If your not a fan of car parks, avoid looking at Murrumba Downs Station! 

[colinw]

Whopping great car parks without some kind of development on top of them just say "opportunity" IMHO.

[dancingmongoose]

Google Maps has updated the "satellite" imagery from Kallangur Station to Kippa Ring Station. Seems quite recent.

If your not a fan of car parks, avoid looking at Murrumba Downs Station! 

And yet Varsity Lakes and Richlands are still a mound of dirt.

[SurfRail]

Varsity was being run directly by TMR - I think the learning there is that they don't have the inclination/skillset/institutional competence to be involved in that kind of thing and need to get developers involved.

They haven't even been able to let out the tenancy space in KGS and its only been open for 7 years...

[colinw]

... and the newsagent / kiosk at Eight Mile Plains fell over as well, despite the vast carpark.