Redcliffe Peninsula Line [was MBRL (Petrie to Kippa Ring)]

[petey3801]

Yeah, I think it's one of the last bits of track to be done. By what I have seen, they seem to be putting the ballast down on the bridge for one track at a time, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the ballast for the third track starting soon.

[SurfRail]

This is one of those projects where it just seems like madness not to do the fourth track up front.  Same with not stringing the wires up between Corinda and Darra and building the fourth platform at Oxley.  We seem to be building these semi-permanent bottlenecks into everything now.

I suppose we should be grateful there are no more plans for single track lines anywhere in the metropolitan system, but it's still a battle to get them to do the junctions right.  Petrie seems to have been dumb luck.

[ozbob]

Petri - flyover getting up over a flat junction was the result of a number of years of serious lobbying both within the tent and outside of the tent.  Fact.

It was originally going to be a flat junction in true ' Queenslander ' fashion.  It was fortunate that lobbying was successful.

The line from Richlands to Springfield was going to be single as well.  Again serious lobbying went on.

I use a photograph I took of Darra during construction as my computer screen background images.  It is a constant reminder to me to me of the need to fight hammer nail and tooth these half baked solutions, so typical of transport infrastructure in Queensland.  Darra is 'world class' example of a half baked solution indeed.

[petey3801]

Thankfully by the plans I have seen, the 4 tracks are to be put in over the bridge from the start, coming back to three at Lawnton. Then again, these are the same plans that said the original bridge across the river was to be left in place... BUT, there are signals indicating it will be 4 tracks.

[petey3801]

3 out of 4 tracks have now been (mostly) laid across the Pine River bridge, with ballast being readied for the fourth when I went through earlier.

[SurfRail]

Good.  At least between Lawnton and the bridge there will be no issue with the portals and corridor width for when the fourth track is inevitably built between Petrie and Strathpine.  Should be a doddle compared with working on the bridge with trains running.

[ozbob]

Media release 14th August 2015



SEQ Moreton Bay: Miss the Bus, Miss the Train

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers is deeply concerned about the lack of public consultation or advice about what the Moreton Bay region's public transport network will look like when the Moreton Bay Rail Link is opened in 2016.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Recent rail extensions to Varsity Lakes, Richlands and Springfield Central have all involved poor outcomes for bus – train interchange, with limited or no upgrades to bus services.  In some cases bus network changes occurred several months out of phase with the train service changes, and in the case of Springfield Central it has been nearly 2 years and there has been no attention to the inadequacies of the local routes like the 522."

"Even the opening of the Gold Coast light rail project was plagued with problems which have still not been resolved, including several 'connecting' bus routes like the 743 not even operating after 5pm and leaving entire suburbs unconnected to the wider system."

"Over $1bn is being spent on MBRL, yet we don't know how often the trains will run, what the stopping pattern will be, where connecting bus routes will go, how frequently they will run and how late at night they will run?  This is absurd."

"The Moreton Bay bus network is currently one of the most woefully under-serviced regions in SEQ, with many services not running after sunset and many not running on weekends or on Sundays and public holidays.  Even trunk routes like the 680 are critically under-serviced compared to other outer parts of the system in Logan and Ipswich."

"TransLink and Queensland Rail's recent form gives us little comfort that the same issues which arose during the last 3 rail extensions and the light rail opening will be dealt with adequately here.  The public needs to know what is proposed and there needs to be genuine consultation about timetables and route planning well before the first trains start carrying passengers.  Ignoring the problem until the last minute, as usual, is utterly unacceptable."

"RAIL Back On Track calls on TransLink and Queensland Rail to immediately commence a public consultation program to set out proposed timetable and route changes for both bus and train services so the public can be consulted appropriately.  The changes should only be finalised for implementation after it has properly engaged with the public and not simply 'managed expectations."

"RAIL Back On Track also calls on TransLink and Treasury to ensure that the bus network is designed to grow local patronage and encourage bus-rail interchange, and not just pay lip service to these goals. A top-down approach to route planning intended to ration the existing resources will result in further failure."

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[red dragin]

Crews working this morning to remove the track machine siding at Petrie (behind north end Plat 1).

From memory this used to serve the now removed turntable at Petrie. 

Also noticed the start of works to create the crane platform which will be used to remove the existing North Pine rail bridge at Christmas.

[Gazza]

Why do they have to remove the existing bridge?

[red dragin]

Truss section and original posts at end of life.

Not sure why they didn't redeck using the newer concrete posts, like they are going to do at South Pine though.

[ozbob]

Why do they have to remove the existing bridge?

During the tour it was also mentioned I recall that it will improve water flows.

[ozbob]

Hansard Queensland Parliament Estimates 19th August 2015

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2015/2015_08_19_EstimatesIPC.pdf

Mr KELLY: I refer to page 113 of the Capital Statement. Can the Deputy Premier please highlight
the current works taking place to complete the Moreton Bay Rail Link and explain the benefits to
commuters when the project is completed?

Ms TRAD: Thank you very much for the question, member for Greenslopes. The Moreton Bay
Rail Link is a fantastic success story. As the member for Greenslopes may or may not know, the local
community, the Redcliffe community, has been advocating for this project for over 100 years. I think it
is important that we acknowledge one of the chief advocates and fierce fighters for this project, and that
is the current Attorney-General, Ms Yvette D'Ath, when she was the federal member for Petrie—she
has been advocating for this project for a very, very long period of time. There was no-one who was
more supportive of this project and willing to go to the wall for it than the member for Redcliffe.
Moreton Bay is one of the fastest growing regions in South-East Queensland. Moreton Bay Rail
Link is on track to be completed by mid—2016. The region's biggest public transport infrastructure
project in more than a generation and it was delivered by Labor. More than 375,000 people call the
Moreton Bay region home, with the population set to exceed half a million people by 2031. More than
half the region's population leave the area every single day to go to work and 83 per cent of that cohort
use their own private vehicle. That is the lot of cars on the road. The new train line will provide a better
public transport option for those people living in Moreton Bay. Every full train on the new line will take
around 600 cars off the road. Every single new train on the line will take 600 cars off the road.

This was only delivered through an innovative partnership between the Commonwealth, state
and local government. The Queensland government committed $300 million to the project, and it is
supporting 800 jobs during the project's peak construction period. There are many more jobs obviously
that have been created indirectly through the construction of this important piece of public transport
infrastructure. It is 14 kilometres of double track from Lawnton to Kippa-Ring; more than 44,000
sleepers and more than 100,000 tonnes of ballast; six new stations including bus interchange, kiss and
ride, drop-off points and bike storages; 2,850 car parks for park and ride; and a three-metre wide path
for cyclists and pedestrians along the entire corridor. Twenty-two bridges will be constructed as part of
this project. Planning for the new train timetable and new look local bus network is already underway.
We estimate that time travel savings to the CBD from this new service will be up to 15 minutes during
peak periods compared with the current comparative bus and rail journeys which is just fantastic for
commuters.

As I said before, and it is important to remember, this was a project that was planned, that was
funded, by federal and state Labor governments. It would not have happened without Labor in office
and it certainly would not have happened if there was only one jurisdiction attempting to build it. That
is pretty clear. Without federal support it just would not have happened and I want to commend the
former Labor government for having made significant funds available for this significant project. We
know that we confront some pretty challenging public transport issues going forward, and what we know
is that we cannot confront them as a state alone. We need the federal government to support

12 Estimates—Transport, Infrastructure, Local Government and
Planning and Trade (Proof) 19 Aug 2015
Queensland when it comes to building public transport infrastructure such as the Moreton Bay Rail Link,
which we know will be incredibly important in terms of alleviating and mitigating congestion and also in
terms of making sure that we can grow our economy and create jobs.

[petey3801]

While I remember: All four tracks are now in place across the North Pine bridge, with associated points being installed presently.

[red dragin]

Crews working this morning to remove the track machine siding at Petrie (behind north end Plat 1).

From memory this used to serve the now removed turntable at Petrie. 

New base ballast, concrete sleepers and rail going in at the moment - just an upgrade from the older track and sleepers.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Commuters say they will shun the billion dollar Moreton Bay Rail Link if buses don't connect with trains

ATTENTION has turned from the Moreton Bay Rail construction to commuters calling on TransLink to make sure they get the timetable right.

Commuters already driving to a train station, or driving the entire way to work, say they will not use the Moreton Bay Rail — connecting Petrie to the Redcliffe Peninsula through North Lakes — if the buses do not match up with train times.

Public transport advocacy group Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said he had concerns about how the Moreton Bay Rail Link would link with existing and potential bus services in the area.

He called on TransLink to hold consultations to ensure commuters had their say.

"We don't know how often the trains will run, what the stopping pattern will be, where connecting bus routes will go, how frequently they will run and how late at night they will run," Mr Dow said.

TransLink would not answer questions about if it would seek community input.

TransLink said it was too far out to comment, with the rail expected to open midway through 2016, but Mr Dow said the time to start planning was now.

"Rail Back On Track calls on TransLink and Queensland Rail to immediately commence a public consultation program to set out proposed timetable and route changes for both bus and train services so the public can be consulted appropriately," he said.

The changes should only be finalised for implementation after it has properly engaged with the public and not simply managed expectations."

Mango Hill resident Nikki Daniels already catches a bus and train to get to work.

"There is only one 681 bus in the morning and evening to get to and from work — the only bus that takes me ­towards Maryvale Rd, Mango Hill," she said.

She currently catches an express train from Petrie. If something similar is not offered from one of the two Mango Hill stations, or a connecting train, she will continue to use Petrie station.

"It would be great to have the buses linked with the new Mango Hill and North Lakes train stations when they are open," she said.

Kippa-Ring resident Jamey Jennings said she would use the train to go shopping or to the new cinemas at Westfield North Lakes but a shuttle bus connecting the station to the shopping centre was needed.

A Transport and Main Roads spokesman said TransLink was "undertaking a review of the existing bus network to provide bus connections to the new rail stations".

He did not give a timeline for when passengers would be made aware.

A spokesman for Queensland Rail said "customer travel data and load modelling" would be used to design the timetable to maximise efficiency.

[ozbob]

" ... TransLink said it was too far out to comment, with the rail expected to open midway through 2016, but Mr Dow said the time to start planning was now ... "

vs.

" ... A Transport and Main Roads spokesman said TransLink was "undertaking a review of the existing bus network to provide bus connections to the new rail stations" ... "

[BrizCommuter]

Expect mediocrity.
SE Queensland remains as the village idiot of the western world!

[ozbob]

Expect mediocrity.
SE Queensland remains as the village idiot of the western world!

   

[SurfRail]

There should be bus connections at every station meeting nearly every single off-peak train and most peak trains.  If they can afford to run a train at 11pm, they can afford to run a handful of bus routes too.

[nathandavid88]

There should be bus connections at every station meeting nearly every single off-peak train and most peak trains.  If they can afford to run a train at 11pm, they can afford to run a handful of bus routes too.

The same argument could be made for other regions as well (Logan and GC in particular). Honestly I'm not holding my breath on late night bus connections to every station anywhere on the network, no matter how convenient it would be.

What I would be hoping for is good connections between buses and trains. It's one thing that is actually done quite well in the Logan region, with there usually being no longer than a 5-8 minute wait time between a bus and the train it connects to, and almost every LCBS service does connect with a specific train service at a specific station.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

5th September 2015

Moreton Bay Rail Line: $1 billion dollars?

Greetings,

We are concerned about service quality on the nearly completed Moreton Bay Rail line and associated network changes/improvements.
While we welcome infrastructure, as we all know it is the services, not the infrastructure that actually moves the passengers.

Here are some basic questions TransLink and the Queensland Government need to answer:

1. How frequent will trains be all day?
2. Will Moreton Bay Rail Link trains stop all stations or run express?
3. When will the first trains and last trains be on the line?
4. Which buses will connect to what stations, and how often, and will they be properly coordinated with rail services?
5. Is there going to be any community public consultation about connecting bus services, given that bus service planning and changes often take around 12 months to complete?

There is a clear need for a new rail network proposal focusing on service upgrades, and a mass overhaul of the failing bus network, particularly bus/rail connections and the overall Brisbane bus network.

We also have some concerns with the increasing number of bus no-shows, or cancelled services.  When a frequent service is cancelled it is not that much of an issue, but when an infrequent service is cancelled, for example a one-hourly bus service this is very serious.  It can mean a wait of up to two hours for the bus and leads to missed connections, which compounds into a very lengthy journey time.

Enough of the spin and 'world-class' rhetoric.  It is time for action.

Best wishes,

Robert

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

Couriermail Quest --> Commuters say they will shun the billion dollar Moreton Bay Rail Link if buses don't connect with trains
http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/moreton/commuters-say-they-will-shun-the-billion-dollar-moreton-bay-rail-link-if-buses-dont-connect-with-trains/story-fni9r1i7-1227511035232

[BrizCommuter]

Well said!

[techblitz]

if hornibrook are doing the services then odds are the bus timetables will be have a little extra fat at the right times to cater for increased north lakes traffic...meaning better bus-rail connections...

[BrizCommuter]

The BrizCommuter word on MBRL
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2015/09/a-billion-for-30-minute-frequency.html

[achiruel]

I really hope they do a decent connecting service between Sandgate & Kippa Ring stations as well.  Meeting every train would be nice 

[techblitz]

I really hope they do a decent connecting service between Sandgate & Kippa Ring stations as well.  Meeting every train would be nice 

Might be pushing the limits on "every train".....depends heavily on the capture area of the route and demand from redcliffe/margate/brighton to north lakes(which should pick up eventually)...it would still need to service redcliffe(dolphin shopping center via ashmole rd?)/scarborough margate etc to gain the patronage....690 is doing fairly well along its current aligment....i dont any reason to adjust it post mbrl....just have it go via kipparing rail...if they streamline the network well enough...every train is a possbility....

[SteelPan]

  30min services, in Qld, are a religious type belief...QR was running them decades ago...... I can never figure out, why, as a compromise, we don't go to 20mins services, ie 3 an hr. 2 services [30mins] are useless in 2015 and 15mins [4 per hr] obviously scare the powers that be [ie, like putting an underground rail in, means you might meet the devil down there]...so let's meet in a friendly place and make it every 20mins.   

[ozbob]

With you there SteelPan.  20 minutes would be achievable more easily and would be a good stepping stone.  Other jurisdictions do that, with some great results.  Eg Pakenham + Cranbourne lines in Vic, 20 minutes with the overlap in from Dandenong = 10 minute trains.

Same thing could be done with Caboolture/KippaRing - Ipwich/Springfield   but hey the mental arithmetic is too much for some .. 

But hey we are in Hicksville,  banana-land .

[BrizCommuter]

The peak service on the Caboolture/Ipswich corridor is every 3 minutes, and 3 is not divisible from 20. So, peak and off peak times would have to be different if there was a 20 min off-peak. That's the dragon!

[ozbob]

So what .. Time to get on with it..

Sent from my E2353 using Tapatalk

[verbatim9]

9am-9pm 20min frequency on weekends and public holidays is well worth considering

[SurfRail]

We can and should be pushing for 15 minute headways Kippa-Ring to Springfield Central.  They are capable of doing it if they pull their finger out.

[HappyTrainGuy]

With you there SteelPan.  20 minutes would be achievable more easily and would be a good stepping stone.  Other jurisdictions do that, with some great results.  Eg Pakenham + Cranbourne lines in Vic, 20 minutes with the overlap in from Dandenong = 10 minute trains.

Same thing could be done with Caboolture/KippaRing - Ipwich/Springfield   but hey the mental arithmetic is too much for some .. 

But hey we are in Hicksville,  banana-land .

Also depends on the line and network. As much as I'd love to have 15/20 min frequencies on the Caboolture line the patronage simply isn't there to warrant it considering where the patronage starts/stops. Caboolture-Northgate only has 2 stations that have a bus that has a frequency better than 30 minutes (340 buz at Carseldine which has been deliberately made so passengers avoid that interchange as it departs minutes before the train arrives which I guess was better than it departing as the train was arriving (remember the old train service pattern and pre buz of the 340 it was faster to get from Roma Street to Aspley using the outbound train + inbound 340 than it was to catch the single trip 340 which departed at roughly the same time) and 330 at Zillmere with a ~500m interchange walk) with the rest having 30 minute (Narangba, Burpengary), 60 minute (Geebung, Strathpine, Bray Park, Lawnton, Petrie, Morayfield, Caboolture) or no bus frequency (Sunshine, Bald Hills, Dakabin). Kippa Ring is the best chance of Petrie-Northgate getting a better all day train service which is where all the patronage for the Caboolture line comes from. If Kippa Ring gets 4tph and Caboolture moves to 2tph express you will see 2 very empty express trains in the off peak.

[ozbob]

So ...

Locked into a failed paradigm.  Unless  the cycle is broken, we stay in Hicksville ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Doesn't mean trains have to be the first to break the cycle. The Caboolture line already operates at a better peak frequency than the buz network does and there is still plenty of space onboard those trains for more people. All I'm saying is that a lot more has to happen and that's starting with the bus network. No point in running extra trains if no one has access to the currently running trains due to the 60 minute all day bus frequency. Transfer more people on to trains which then you can start upgrading the frequency on as you now have a reason. Norris Road linking Bracken Ridge straight to Carseldine station is now open. Should we make bets on how long before a bus will run between the two.

There is a reason why no one on the northside uses buses and trains and its not due to the trains frequency but more so the bus network. Just look at the park and rides how they have exploded from Sunshine to Caboolture while the bus network has had the same frequency or service cuts as is the case with Brisbane. Narangba and Burpengary had improvements when the 6.40 request only buses were made as part of the normal schedule

[colinw]

I really do not see "the buses are worse" as a reasonable excuse, although one entirely typical of the Aussie mentality.

Chicken and egg.  Low service frequency and/or limited hours of operation because "there isn't the demand" is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That is why so many of those pathetic hourly buses run around carrying air, it is why the Doomben line is chronic under-performer, and it is why the potentially useful cross-link from Yeerongpilly to Corinda withered and died.

On the flip side, decent all day frequency & hours of operation is why the Gold Coast Light Rail is going to outperform any other section of railed transport in this sad little inward looking backwater.

Rail at low frequency simply isn't worth doing, and most definitely does not justify spending multi-billions on new lines.

[James]

Rail frequency is a "chicken and the egg"-type issue which ties in with bus network reform. TransLink needs to do both at once to truly ensure both are effective.

Really there should be none of this '20 minute frequency' business, it is re-affirming the notion in Queensland that everything should be half-baked. Do you think BUZ would have taken off if BT decided to introduce a new BUZ route but said 'Oh there's not enough buses, so we're going to make the 385 run every 20 minutes instead of every 15 minutes'? Absolutely not! 15 minute frequency can be done if everybody pulls their finger out and QR/TransLink make an effort. If buses start feeding trains. If we actually give outer suburban areas proper feeder buses which don't die once the sun goes down. If the frequency has a good span of hours.

Following on from this, I think the current 15 minute standard on the Ferny Grove/Cleveland/Beenleigh lines is absolutely sub-par. Stops running at 7-8pm, is not supported by buses, doesn't go far enough down the line *cough* Cannon Hill terminators *cough* and doesn't even run on weekends. The service is set up to fail, and the results show it. I was just on a Northgate train departing Park Road around 11:45am, 5 pax in the 3rd carriage. These services have been in place for over a year and a half now, and if you assume even loading across all carriages, that's 30 passengers (probably less). No wonder QR isn't going to introduce more frequent services with loads like that!

Political balls and a will is what is required to fix the mediocre rail network, sadly I don't think there are any of those anywhere in George St.

[SurfRail]

Do you think BUZ would have taken off if BT decided to introduce a new BUZ route but said 'Oh there's not enough buses, so we're going to make the 385 run every 20 minutes instead of every 15 minutes'? Absolutely not!

That's basically Metrobus in Sydney in a nutshell.  Small wonder the gains have been nowhere near as good as we had with BUZ and the Gold Coast upgrades.

[petey3801]

I actually find the Caboolture line to be quite well patronised all day, every day, regardless of bus connections. Most other lines are in the same boat.. Ippy line is most certainly in the same boat inbound of Darra, yet the 15min frequency still gains plenty of patronage.
Regarding the Cannon Hill -Northgate services, they're basically a waste of time at the moment. They run 2-3mins behind an Ippy train from Northgate to the City, 2mins behind a Gold Coasy train EJ-Park Road and only go to Cannon Hill one away from the other lines! The reverse is much the same too. The Coopers Plains trains really need to continue through to at least Altandi and there is zero reason why it can't happen tomorrow. Span of hours/weekend running (or lack thereof) also most certainly needs attention.

[ozbob]

Hey folks.  15 minutes is not going to happen dream on.

We would be much happier with three trains an hour rather than two an hour from here to infinity, particularly on the Ippy.  It is going to be tight with 15 minutes out of peak on the Ippy simply due to the number of trains (the Ipswich line carries the most tonnage of all the suburban lines).  The train movements will increase with Wulkuraka a little as well.  So rather than be stuck with poor frequency QR should look objectively at what can realistically be achieved.

Other jurisdictions do this as a staging point in frequency improvements ie. 3 trains per hour.   But hey this is Queensland, mediocrity rules.

There are no plans by the looks of things for anything better than 30 minutes on Kippa-Ring - Springfield Central out of peak so the 15 minute argument is null and void.  20  minutes just might be achievable.  People who actually use the services would much rather an improvement albeit a small one than nothing.