Redcliffe Peninsula Line [was MBRL (Petrie to Kippa Ring)]

[Old Northern Road]

Should be more like 48 minutes from Central to Murrumba Downs shouldn't it?

[ozbob]

Should be more like 48 minutes from Central to Murrumba Downs shouldn't it?

Have to wait & see .  Still a long time if you have to go...  ;-)

[Stillwater]

Bring back the pissoir.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=image+%2B+pissoir&biw=1407&bih=760&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CBwQsARqFQoTCLea9ZitkMYCFUR8vAod9uMAkA

[BrizCommuter]

Will there be enough trains for MBRL?
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/moreton-bay-rail-link-not-enough-trains.html

[red dragin]

How many sets of SX carriages do they have?

[hU0N]

Will there be enough trains for MBRL?
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/moreton-bay-rail-link-not-enough-trains.html

Poor planning is no new thing. In 1971 the federal government began resuming land so they could relocate the domestic airport terminal away from the then existing airport railway station at eagle farm. Three years later, in 1974, plans were drawn up for electrification of Brisbane's suburban railways. These plans included electrification of the line as far as the then existing airport station that was only useful because it was adjacent to the old domestic terminal (that was soon to close). In 1977 electrification works began, while construction of the new airport commenced in 1980. In about 1986, electrification of the Doomben line began. This included electrification of the airport station. These works were completed in early 1988, and in February of that year two things happened. 1) Power was switched on to the airport station, and 2) The airport closed for good rendering the airport station useless.

In 17 years, nobody had thought to ask why the airport station was being electrified when the airport was about to close. And the poor planning didn't stop there. It took another four years before train service to the now obsolete airport station was finally halted.

[pandmaster]

Politically speaking, building something is a lot more popular than providing a decent service (e.g. talk of extending the Eastern Busway when the network is in a shambles). Lots of people have/will drive past the Springfield and MBRL lines and think "How great, another railway line. I would never use it myself, but good on the government for building it". As long as trains run along the line at 30 minute intervals at least, most people will be none the wiser of the poor service.

If they want to free up some units. cut Doomben services back to three cars. I used to use it frequently and I can not recall ever seeing or using a three car service, nor I can I recall ever seeing enough patronage to justify six cars. I know it is not many, however it seems as though every set helps at this stage.

Perhaps a three-car shuttle (e.g. Williamstown and Alamein in Melbourne) could operate at some points of the timetable until the NGR arrives. Maybe some peak Shorncliffe trains could be reduced to three cars (especially if bus connections to Redcliffe reduce). I imagine that some six-car Cleveland services would have to be cut back to Bowen Hills and separated from Shorncliffe trains as they do need the 6 cars (although that raises inner city capacity issues). Maybe, if they are creative, QR can provide a decent service.

[BrizCommuter]

Politically speaking, building something is a lot more popular than providing a decent service (e.g. talk of extending the Eastern Busway when the network is in a shambles). Lots of people have/will drive past the Springfield and MBRL lines and think "How great, another railway line. I would never use it myself, but good on the government for building it". As long as trains run along the line at 30 minute intervals at least, most people will be none the wiser of the poor service.

If they want to free up some units. cut Doomben services back to three cars. I used to use it frequently and I can not recall ever seeing or using a three car service, nor I can I recall ever seeing enough patronage to justify six cars. I know it is not many, however it seems as though every set helps at this stage.

Perhaps a three-car shuttle (e.g. Williamstown and Alamein in Melbourne) could operate at some points of the timetable until the NGR arrives. Maybe some peak Shorncliffe trains could be reduced to three cars (especially if bus connections to Redcliffe reduce). I imagine that some six-car Cleveland services would have to be cut back to Bowen Hills and separated from Shorncliffe trains as they do need the 6 cars (although that raises inner city capacity issues). Maybe, if they are creative, QR can provide a decent service.

To be honest, I think QR have already been creative as possible in rolling stock allocation, otherwise we would have seen the resolution of the overcrowded peak 3-car peak services. The problem is that many trains used for off-peak or even peak services that only require 3-cars (e.g. Doomben Line), turn into peak services that do require 6-cars on subsequent journeys on other lines.

[HappyTrainGuy]

There will be enough rollingstock especially when you consider Geebung-Lawnton is a temp stabling area during morning peak hour. Modifications to the running patterns too will free up extra sets when it comes to positioning. Petrie starters were always planned to be moved as Kippa Ring starters with Petrie starters being an option if there was overcrowding/positioning requirements. Not sure if its still in play but MBRL was to be 130kph line running for express services so Petrie-Kippa Ring should be a pretty quick trip for those empty services.

[colinw]

Darn, there goes my foamy dreams of SX sets barrelling along behind magically restored 3900 class ELs (yeah, I know they are Aurizon's). 

THE last word in QR suburban services, IMHO.  Gratuitous image from internet follows.

[BrizCommuter]

There will be enough rollingstock especially when you consider Geebung-Lawnton is a temp stabling area during morning peak hour. Modifications to the running patterns too will free up extra sets when it comes to positioning.

So are you saying there are sufficient trains "not doing anything" to extend all Petrie starting services to Kippa-Ring starting services (notably the 9tph Petrie starters between 6:58am and 7:52am)? I highly doubt it!

[SurfRail]

Whatever happens, I would hope they are sensible enough not to start with a shuttle like Leppington.

[red dragin]

There will be enough rollingstock especially when you consider Geebung-Lawnton is a temp stabling area during morning peak hour. Modifications to the running patterns too will free up extra sets when it comes to positioning. Petrie starters were always planned to be moved as Kippa Ring starters with Petrie starters being an option if there was overcrowding/positioning requirements. Not sure if its still in play but MBRL was to be 130kph line running for express services so Petrie-Kippa Ring should be a pretty quick trip for those empty services.

We where told on the tour that the posted line speed will be 80kph (designed to higher speeds though).

[HappyTrainGuy]

There will be enough rollingstock especially when you consider Geebung-Lawnton is a temp stabling area during morning peak hour. Modifications to the running patterns too will free up extra sets when it comes to positioning.

So are you saying there are sufficient trains "not doing anything" to extend all Petrie starting services to Kippa-Ring starting services (notably the 9tph Petrie starters between 6:58am and 7:52am)? I highly doubt it!

As I said once the line is open it will allow the positioning and running of trains to really open up. Especially on the Bowen Hills-Lawnton section. Remember the majority of Northgate-Petrie is 100kph with a few 70-80kph curves. As it is now Nambour/Caboolture and Petrie starters go across the bridge in the same direction at roughly the same time. Once the Nambour train has cleared Lawnton the out of service train starts to move to Petrie and after it arrives the service waiting at Petrie starts its city service. Now the next out of service train at Lawnton has to wait for the Petrie train to clear before it can cross and occupy a platform. As a result trains just back log all the way back to Zillmere and Geebung when those trains could be running towards Kippa Ring at a good amount of speed. Watching Lawnton/Petrie in the morning is quite the sight. How many times do you get to see trains at all 3 platforms all going in the same direction to the same destination.

There will be enough rollingstock especially when you consider Geebung-Lawnton is a temp stabling area during morning peak hour. Modifications to the running patterns too will free up extra sets when it comes to positioning. Petrie starters were always planned to be moved as Kippa Ring starters with Petrie starters being an option if there was overcrowding/positioning requirements. Not sure if its still in play but MBRL was to be 130kph line running for express services so Petrie-Kippa Ring should be a pretty quick trip for those empty services.

We where told on the tour that the posted line speed will be 80kph (designed to higher speeds though).

I'm assuming higher speeds for express running and 80 for all stoppers?? Or just a flat 80kph.

[ozbob]

Seeing the 39 and the SX set reminded me of a journey I did from Oxley to Nundah.

DEL + SX set Oxley to Corinda.

2000 Rail motor Corinda to Yeerongpilly

39 + SX Yeerongpilly to Roma St.

DD17 +SX Roma St to Brunswick St (was Ekka week).

EMU Brunswick St to Nundah ..

[SurfRail]

There will be enough rollingstock especially when you consider Geebung-Lawnton is a temp stabling area during morning peak hour. Modifications to the running patterns too will free up extra sets when it comes to positioning.

So are you saying there are sufficient trains "not doing anything" to extend all Petrie starting services to Kippa-Ring starting services (notably the 9tph Petrie starters between 6:58am and 7:52am)? I highly doubt it!

As I said once the line is open it will allow the positioning and running of trains to really open up. Especially on the Bowen Hills-Lawnton section. Remember the majority of Northgate-Petrie is 100kph with a few 70-80kph curves. As it is now Nambour/Caboolture and Petrie starters go across the bridge in the same direction at roughly the same time. Once the Nambour train has cleared Lawnton the out of service train starts to move to Petrie and after it arrives the service waiting at Petrie starts its city service. Now the next out of service train at Lawnton has to wait for the Petrie train to clear before it can cross and occupy a platform. As a result trains just back log all the way back to Zillmere and Geebung when those trains could be running towards Kippa Ring at a good amount of speed. Watching Lawnton/Petrie in the morning is quite the sight. How many times do you get to see trains at all 3 platforms all going in the same direction to the same destination.

There will be enough rollingstock especially when you consider Geebung-Lawnton is a temp stabling area during morning peak hour. Modifications to the running patterns too will free up extra sets when it comes to positioning. Petrie starters were always planned to be moved as Kippa Ring starters with Petrie starters being an option if there was overcrowding/positioning requirements. Not sure if its still in play but MBRL was to be 130kph line running for express services so Petrie-Kippa Ring should be a pretty quick trip for those empty services.

We where told on the tour that the posted line speed will be 80kph (designed to higher speeds though).

I'm assuming higher speeds for express running and 80 for all stoppers?? Or just a flat 80kph.

As I understand it the line will be signed for 80kph.  Probably makes it much easier to drive.

[petey3801]

I really, truely hope it isn't signed completely for 80km/h. Anything under 100km/h on a brand new line is, to be blunt, completely unacceptable in this day and age, regardless of whether an all-stopper will actually reach road speed or not.

[SurfRail]

I still maintain there are 2 too many stations on the branch.  Murrumba Downs and Kallangur should have been one (pick one or combine them), and Rothwell and Mango Hill East likewise.  You can see Murrumba Downs from Kallangur, which isn't a good sign.

[HappyTrainGuy]

There will be enough rollingstock especially when you consider Geebung-Lawnton is a temp stabling area during morning peak hour. Modifications to the running patterns too will free up extra sets when it comes to positioning. Petrie starters were always planned to be moved as Kippa Ring starters with Petrie starters being an option if there was overcrowding/positioning requirements. Not sure if its still in play but MBRL was to be 130kph line running for express services so Petrie-Kippa Ring should be a pretty quick trip for those empty services.

We where told on the tour that the posted line speed will be 80kph (designed to higher speeds though).

I'm assuming higher speeds for express running and 80 for all stoppers?? Or just a flat 80kph.

As I understand it the line will be signed for 80kph.  Probably makes it much easier to drive.

God I hope that's not the case. The highway is 100kph which is why so many people choose to floor it to Bald Hills and train from there.

It might seem like too many stations but the area is really in for some development so it might be a good choice down the track.

[petey3801]

I still maintain there are 2 too many stations on the branch.  Murrumba Downs and Kallangur should have been one (pick one or combine them), and Rothwell and Mango Hill East likewise.  You can see Murrumba Downs from Kallangur, which isn't a good sign.

Completely agree. Heavy rail should have few, limited stations with several feeder buses serving said stations, connecting the surrounding suburbs.

[red dragin]

Signed at 80kph is my recollection of what we where told.

You can almost see Murrumba Downs from Mango Hill as well.

Murrumba needed to be built a station length closer to Kallangur (kallangur eliminated) with an access road built from Dohles Rocks Rd through to Goodfellow's Rd (as is now built) then along the railway easement to the car park.

Rothwell a station length closer to Mango Hill east (eliminated) and suitable access built as well.

[Old Northern Road]

80km/h would be absolutely torturous between Rothwell and Kippa-Ring. It would certainly make the travel time a few minutes longer.

It sounds like something stupid they would do in Victoria

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Moreton Bay Rail Link will have toilets on all stations — 24 hour access to be decided

PUBLIC transport advocacy group Rail Back on Track has welcomed news each and every station on the new Moreton Bay Rail Link will have public toilets.

There were concerns stations at Murrumba Downs, Kallangur, Mango Hill East and Rothwell would be without bathrooms.

Quest Newspapers raised the issue with State Transport Minister Jackie Trad who handed it on to Queensland Rail.

"Toilets have been built at all new stations on the Moreton Bay Rail Link," a Queensland Rail spokeswoman said.

Robert Dow, spokesman for Rail Back on Track, was pleased with the news.

"The community wouldn't have been too chuffed with the idea that there would be no toilets," he said.

"Public transport commuters are people and commuters can have disabilities, commuters are the general population and the general population is getting older, commuters are also parents and care givers to babies and young children who have little to no control over their bodily functions."

But concerns remain as to whether or not the loos will be available 24 hours a day or, only when the stations in question were staffed.

Mr Dow said the toilets must be open whenever the trains are running.

"People need to micturate and defecate believe it or not," he said.

A Queensland Rail spokeswoman said the State Government was trying to work out how to ensure the facilities would be accessible even when the stations were unstaffed.

"The operating model for when the new line opens next year, including staff arrangements, is yet to be finalised by Queensland Rail in conjunction with TransLink," the spokeswoman said.

"Queensland Rail is currently undertaking a safety assessment of its operational policy on toilets."

The Moreton Bay Rail Link is expected to be operational midway through 2016.

[SurfRail]

Are we sure they aren't just referring to the toilets for the cleaning staff at the 4 unmanned stations?

[ozbob]

Seems that the toilets will now be public & accessible.  Murrumba Downs was a particular concern.

This >> " A Queensland Rail spokeswoman said the State Government was trying to work out how to ensure the facilities would be accessible even when the stations were unstaffed. "

Hopefully something can be worked out and rolled out elsewhere on the network as well.

All stations on the MBRL will be staffed, at least for the initial few months. 

[colinw]

80km/h would be absolutely torturous between Rothwell and Kippa-Ring. It would certainly make the travel time a few minutes longer.

It sounds like something stupid they would do in Victoria

I can understand the 80km/h limit at the western end of the line, as Kallangur, Murrumba Downs, Mango Hill are quite closely spaced (arguably one too many stations), but the eastern end of the line has a couple of longer gaps on good alignment where 100km/h or faster line speed is a no-brainer.

Seems like QLD is struggling with getting the balance right on new lines.  On the one hand we have Springfield with 140 km/h boards and a missing station at Ellen Grove right where it would be really useful, on the other we have Kippa-Ring with 80km/h and too many darn stations.  Although, at least by having many stations the line is accessible to all along the corridor, unlike the Springfield Line which manages to bypass Carole Park, Ellen Grove, and drive up patronage from Forestdale and along the Logan Mwy.

A single station in place of Kallangur / Murrumba Downs, and a single station in place of Mango Hill East / Rothwell would have made more sense.  Too late now.

[Stillwater]

This is an interesting quote from the QR spokesperson:
"Queensland Rail is currently undertaking a safety assessment of its operational policy on toilets."

First time that has been mentioned.  You'd think that QR would tell people about this.  What is the timing?  Can the public have input into the policy review?  Can we see the terms of reference?  What is the incidence of 'unsafe' practices in QR toilets, do they differ from all other toilets?  etc

[#Metro]

^^^ I guess some may accidentally fall in and get flushed away! 

[red dragin]

^^^ I guess some may accidentally fall in and get flushed away! 

Probably to do with keeping them clean and staff safety (needles, waste etc)

[colinw]

Obviously these are Zero Harm toilets.  Have to do a "safety share" before being allowed to use them.

Can we expect QR "Toilet Etiquette" posters?

"Joe does no 2s.  Joe remembers to flush.  Way to go Joe.

Toilet Etiquette, super simple stuff."
 

[red dragin]

 

The Moreton Bay Council has a toilet in a park at Burpengary, one of those auto self cleaning ones that plays classical music and unlocks after 10 minutes (with a warning)

The few times I've been there it seems to be in good condition, perhaps they are the option needed here? If that can survive in a park quiet dark park in Burpengary, surely it can last on a well lit platform with CCTV coverage and plenty of people.

[ozbob]

Thanks red dragin, good to know.  There are solutions.

It is very difficult to use public transport for many without access to toilets. Simple fact of life.

[ozbob]

Obviously these are Zero Harm toilets.  Have to do a "safety share" before being allowed to use them.

Can we expect QR "Toilet Etiquette" posters?

"Joe does no 2s.  Joe remembers to flush.  Way to go Joe.

Toilet Etiquette, super simple stuff."

Ha!

[red dragin]

Contact wire is now in place on the UP track from Goodfellows Rd to somewhere in the cutting near Petrie station.

I also noticed signal heads in place, both tracks, at the Kippa Ring end of Murrumba Downs station before the bridge over Brays Road.

The North Pine river bridge looks ready for ballast, track and overhead wiring to be installed.

[BrizCommuter]

A Queensland Rail spokeswoman said the State Government was trying to work out how to ensure the facilities would be accessible even when the stations were unstaffed. "

Don't lock it?

[James]

A Queensland Rail spokeswoman said the State Government was trying to work out how to ensure the facilities would be accessible even when the stations were unstaffed. "

Don't lock it?

I think the issue with this is that a minority of the general population doesn't seem to understand how to do a wee/poo without either:
a) shooting up on heroin
b) vandalising the facility (e.g. graffiti)
c) managing to urinate everywhere but in the toilet

[verbatim9]

Looks like The people from North lakes to Kipparing will be on a windifall with property prices  Take a look at @7NewsSydney's Tweet: https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/621599086626537472?s=09

[red dragin]

Noticed today the new North Pine River bridge has two ballasted tracks and overhead wiring in place, as well as signals (boarded up).

Still top ballast work going on today, but compared to a few weeks ago when the bridge was bare, it looks like there is a sudden desire to get two tracks running on the new bridge and remove the old bridge from service. There is a weekend closure at the end of August scheduled.

Both tracks are also fully wired as far as Mango Hill East (at least).

[petey3801]

There is a week long closure around Christmas where the new bridge will be brought in to commission. Highly doubt it will happen beforehand.

[red dragin]

Thanks.

Seems odd the sudden rush of work. Perhaps there is a delay elsewhere or its the last bit of track left and they are just that far in front.