Redcliffe Peninsula Line [was MBRL (Petrie to Kippa Ring)]

[Set in train]

Some land clearing has happened in some parts with most corridor work being focused around this area. Construction is well and truly pushing ahead. ~400m of the corridor looks ready to lay track tomorrow. The basic main structure and road layout of the bridge is complete. Progress is moving forward on the next stage of construction on the bridge and road layout. This part of the corridor is very straight so there should be some high speeds to follow compared to the current bus network.

Discovered your photos, fantastic HTG, thanks, look forward to more when you can.

[Gazza]

Just looking at the updated project plan at the bottom of this page:
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Featured-projects/Moreton-Bay-Rail-Link.aspx

Seems like there will be proper flyovers at Petrie after all:

http://i.imgur.com/eIFsjnQ.jpg

(File is dated 13th of September)

[SurfRail]

^ Thank heavens for small mercies.

The only thing to complain about then should be if the station isn't rebuilt as a double island layout with up-up-down-down running so you can cross-platform transfer in the same direction.  Not sure if this is going to happen, but the diagram shows what looks like a new inbound island platform at a different angle to the current platforms.  Even if this doesn't end up happening, at least there won't need to be any flat crosses.

Hands up who thinks the Lawnton to Petrie project should be 4 tracks from the start...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Not really from me. A new overpass would have to be built. You can't get 4 tracks under the bridge as the eastern side doesn't meet the clearances when at speed. Better to put it off until its actually needed for when the quad/NWTC goes through. More than likely they'll do the earthworks and bridge to cater for a quad going through but only have the track infrastructure set up for a triple.

[STB]

Hands up who thinks the Lawnton to Petrie project should be 4 tracks from the start...

Pfft, forget 4 tracks to Lawnton.... It should be 6 tracks Northgate to Bowen Hills, 4 tracks to Northgate, 3 tracks Petrie to Caboolture, 2 tracks Caboolture to Nambour IMO, but  before any of that will happen.

[SurfRail]

Hands up who thinks the Lawnton to Petrie project should be 4 tracks from the start...

Pfft, forget 4 tracks to Lawnton.... It should be 6 tracks Northgate to Bowen Hills, 4 tracks to Northgate, 3 tracks Petrie to Caboolture, 2 tracks Caboolture to Nambour IMO, but  before any of that will happen.

I don't think the additional tracks are justified inbound of Strathpine if we are going to have a NWTC line taking trains from further north than here.  They'll just become a stranded investment. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

3 tracks between Northgate and strathpine should be plenty. Spend the funds for that in resumptions/building extra and new bridges on the NWTC.

[Arnz]

IMO, medium term should be 4 tracks Strathpine to Lawnton, 3 tracks Lawnton to Morayfield (Caboolture River bridge really), double track from Morayfield to Landsborough.

Petrie-Narangba is pretty achievable in the short term tbh.  Improving freight reliability as well as eliminating the counterpeak Nambour-Caboolture shuttles by running them express in the counterpeak direction more reliably.  It has been pointed out that is possible to run ex-NBR trains express in the counter-peak direction in the afternoon peak period (as evidenced by the ICE dead running from Caboolture to Mayne).  However, this would need another unit if they are to remove the ICEs as they generally don't stop all-stations between Northgate and Bowen Hills, as well as reducing reliability if ICEs were made to take that stopping pattern.

Morning peak counterpeak to Nambour might be possible, but could be plagued with inbound expresses taking up the middle track and possibly catching up to various morning peak empties as well as the Caboolture all-stoppers.

Tripling Narangba to Morayfield is the interesting part (will likely acquire some streets and possibly some houses).

[somebody]

That graphic looks like there is to be an island platform to handle O/B CAB + all inbound trains.  Let's hope that's not right.

[Gazza]

Curious thing I spotted about Kallangur station.
See the "Artists impressions of future MBRL stations" pdf on this page: http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Featured-projects/Moreton-Bay-Rail-Link.aspx#stations

Kallangur will be beside a road underpass, with station access at street level (The station is on an embankment). The office  and toilets will also be at street level.

So a couple of things spring to mind

1) Why not have ramps to the platforms, like Cardinia Rd?

2) Secondly, if it is felt that lifts are still the way to go, then why did they not opt for an island platform. This would have meant one lift rather than two, as well as the ability to gate the station.

http://i.imgur.com/b9lwoHK.jpg

[Golliwog]

What's the cost of 2 lifts+1 narrow bridge vs 1 lift+1 wide bridge/2 narrow bridges?

[Gazza]

I'm guessing the extra lift is worth 3 million, given that's what they planned to spend on a single lift at Nambour.

How would the bridge costings compare Golli?

[Golliwog]

I'm guessing the extra lift is worth 3 million, given that's what they planned to spend on a single lift at Nambour.

How would the bridge costings compare Golli?

I thought the Nambour upgrade also included fare gates and general refurbishment of the underpass/station building as well?

Not entirely sure to be completely honest, costing bridges is not my area of expertise. But I'd expect the cost to be maybe 30-50% more than a narrow one? You'd either be doubling the number of piers, or making them significantly larger to carry the spread apart sections. Does anyone have the figures on how much the Kinsellas Rd East bridge cost? Either way, I'd expect the bridge cost to dwarf that of the lift.

[red dragin]

Noticed soil sample drilling on the southbound eastern edge of the Bruce Highway where the train overpass will be last night on the way home from the airport.

[paulg]

New info on design modifications and Petrie to Lawnton third track:
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/moretonbayrail

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[red dragin]

Construction starts February.

[BrizCommuter]

That graphic looks like there is to be an island platform to handle O/B CAB + all inbound trains.  Let's hope that's not right.

Agree. It is against common railway operating logic to have a shared platform for merging lines. Even more so when you then have a 3 track overtaking section after the merge.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/moreton-bay-rail-link-petrie-station.html
A blog post on the above discussed track/platform design at Petrie.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I think you have misread the plans. From what I have heard the area is being designed for a full quad setup with a NWTC running. The green road from the north that you see would actually be the 3rd road and new mains to subs cross over (Petrie will lose its bidi signaling due to the new layout/no stabling/crossovers to the south removed). The current stabling road and P3 road north of the station will be removed for the foundation/bridge works for the flyover. The third line hooks around to the left even further allowing for an alignment for the triple to Caboolture and also as a holding road for freights). The existing crossovers closest to the city are to be removed and reconfigured for the triple/future quad/MBRL. Citybound MBRL services will share a platform but it shares the whole island platform. Outbound Kippa Ring services would use the existing P3 while outbound/City Kippa Ring services will use P5. P4 would be reserved as a holding road and the platform for the Petrie peak hour starters/terminators. Construction wise if I remember the new island platform with the new third access road would be operational first. The middle platform would then be closed to the public for the remaining flyover work being completed.

Edit. Just found that map in your article. You should check the bottom left hand corner of the map As far as I can tell the redesign at Petrie is only having the Lawnton to Petrie project merged into the one project whereas it was previously 2 separate projects and confirmation that they are building flyovers. Kallangur has had a few road mods in that its now 2 bridges by the looks of it. Murrumba Downs has a new access layout to it.

[BrizCommuter]

I think you have misread the plans. From what I have heard the area is being designed for a full quad setup with a NWTC running. The green road from the north that you see would actually be the 3rd road and new mains to subs cross over (Petrie will lose its bidi signaling due to the new layout/no stabling/crossovers to the south removed). The current stabling road and P3 road north of the station will be removed for the foundation/bridge works for the flyover. The third line hooks around to the left even further allowing for an alignment for the triple to Caboolture and also as a holding road for freights). The existing crossovers closest to the city are to be removed and reconfigured for the triple/future quad/MBRL. Citybound MBRL services will share a platform but it shares the whole island platform. Outbound Kippa Ring services would use the existing P3 while outbound/City Kippa Ring services will use P5. P4 would be reserved as a holding road and the platform for the Petrie peak hour starters/terminators. Construction wise if I remember the new island platform with the new third access road would be operational first. The middle platform would then be closed to the public for the remaining flyover work being completed.

Edit. Just found that map in your article. You should check the bottom left hand corner of the map As far as I can tell the redesign at Petrie is only having the Lawnton to Petrie project merged into the one project whereas it was previously 2 separate projects and confirmation that they are building flyovers. Kallangur has had a few road mods in that its now 2 bridges by the looks of it. Murrumba Downs has a new access layout to it.

That's not what the plans appear to show, however as mentioned in BrizCommuter's article the plans may just be badly drawn "artists impression". If that is the case, then TMR need a better artist!

[HappyTrainGuy]

That's not what the plans appear to show

Well in all honestly the map you referred to was the project reference map. According to the same page the link is on:

Reference design – a 'line on a map'.
Concept design – further development of reference design.
Preliminary design – where the key features, layout, and functionality are decided.

And a little further down...

Reference design

View the reference design to see plans for the Moreton Bay Rail in your area:

    Updated project plan (PDF, 20.1 MB)

The map is correct in what's happening and whats going to be built but it just doesn't list the actual detailed works. It lists the road mods, rail corridor, shared pathways, rail access roads, bridges, stations, limited earthworks and the boundary lines for the project. That's really enough information to inform a large majority the public as most really don't care about line patterns, crossovers, sub stations, elevation differences, speeds, earthworks, clearances etc as it tends to be useless information. Just look at Kippa Ring. We know there is going to be stabling but that's just included in the green box. It might be useful to us folk but the majority doesn't care. Similar to busways. We like to know the specifics across multiple routes but the majority doesn't really care - they just want a service.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Changes made to the design of the Moreton Bay Rail Link ahead of construction beginning in 2014

[Jonno]

Easiest way to prove the video is a simmulation?  "Traffic on the freeway is flowing and not congested"

[Old Northern Road]

Isn't that a picture of either Beerburrum or Elimbah in that article? I guess these stations aren't going to be as fancy as the ones on the Springfield line.

[ozbob]

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2013/12/19/moreton-bay-rail-link-full-steam-ahead

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson
Thursday, December 19, 2013

Moreton Bay Rail Link full steam ahead

CONSTRUCTION has begun on one of south-east Queensland's largest infrastructure projects, Moreton Bay's new rail link between Petrie and Kippa-Ring.

Federal Member for Petrie Luke Howarth, Queensland Minister for Transport and Main Roads Scott Emerson, and Moreton Bay Mayor Allan Sutherland gathered to mark the commencement of works with a sod turning ceremony today.

Mr Howarth said he was excited to see heavy machinery moving in to begin work on a project that would provide a massive boost for the Moreton Bay region in terms of transport, jobs and investment.

"The Moreton Bay Rail project will provide crucial infrastructure for this area which is set to grow from 375,000 residents to more than 500,000 by 2031," Mr Howarth said.

"It will create a public transport alternative for the community by connecting Redcliffe to Petrie via six new stations at Kallangur, Murrumba Downs, Mango Hill, Mango Hill East, Rothwell and Kippa-Ring."

Mr Emerson said work would now go full steam ahead, with a short pause over Christmas.

"The new rail link will ease congestion on the Bruce Highway, Anzac Avenue, Gympie Road and the Gateway motorway, and make these roads much safer," he said.

"An information centre will be established at the site office in early 2014, providing residents with the latest project information and giving them the opportunity to have their questions answered.

"We will ensure residents living nearby are kept up-to-date about progress and are well informed about construction activities."

Councillor Sutherland said the start of construction on the Moreton Bay Rail had been eagerly anticipated by the community for more than a century.

"The rail line was first talked about in the late 1800s and now we're seeing the dreams and plans of our region's pioneers coming to fruition," Cr Sutherland said.   

"We're witnessing history in the making with the start of major construction signalling a public transport transformation for our region—one that could never have been imagined more than a century ago.

"Not only will the Moreton Bay Rail bring unprecedented integrated pedestrian, cycling and bus connectivity, it will also deliver jobs and drive new, sustainable transport orientated investment for one of Australia's fastest growing urban areas."

The project is jointly funded by the Australian Government ($742 million), the Queensland Government ($300 million) and the Moreton Bay Regional Council ($105 million).

[Old Northern Road]

http://www.capestone.com.au/Portals/0/Masterplan%20round%20table%20stage%202A%202.pdf

New development to be built around Mango Hill East station.

[Jonno]

http://www.capestone.com.au/Portals/0/Masterplan%20round%20table%20stage%202A%202.pdf

New development to be built around Mango Hill East station.

Fire suit on!  The car park created an ugly, unsafe, useless barrier to the town centre and the school. Nomplacemakjng what so ever! Fail!  Just stupid 20th century planning.  No doubt in 10 years we will be readjng studies about the benefits of replacing park n rides with in- fill development just like Nth America is today

[Derwan]

Fire suit on!  The car park created an ugly, unsafe, useless barrier to the town centre and the school. Nomplacemakjng what so ever! Fail!  Just stupid 20th century planning.  No doubt in 10 years we will be readjng studies about the benefits of replacing park n rides with in- fill development just like Nth America is today

Until such time as:

• Shuttle buses run every few minutes taking passengers directly from their house to the station
• Another shuttle bus runs every few minutes taking kids to the local schools

You will NEVER convince people to leave their cars at home.

Ditch the park'n'rides at stations close to the city that have a high-density population, but they're still needed in the suburbs.

[Jonno]

Most of the development is within 800m of station. Overseas experience suggests good separated cycling infrastructure would minimise need for shuttle service for the 800m around the station and further afar Suburbs further afield need to be serviced by cross-town service.  We are making 20centryplannimg mistake now being fixed by cities around the globe in the 21 century!

[James]

Jonno, you are forgetting that in lower-density outer-suburban areas, there will always be demand for Park n Ride - not everybody is willing to wait for a bus or live life dictated by a bus timetable. If you look at the wider area on google maps, you can see development is going to occur further away from the station as well.

Park n Ride isn't evil, and in some cases, can work better than a bus (e.g. the Park n Rides served by P142/P546), due to low density.

[Jonno]

21 century planning principles state we should be building walkable, compact, mixed use suburbs with separated cycling infrastructure and fast, frequent, networked transit (mix of modes).   This is based on best economic, health, social and environmental outcomes delivered by these design principles! To do anything else is building a problem to fix tomorrow at twice the cost!

[#Metro]

We cannot force people to like what we like. If they want a carpark installed and are paying for it, fine. Urbex should be congratulated for this development. We should charge for parking.

[Jonno]

We cannot force people to like what we like. If they want a carpark installed and are paying for it, fine. Urbex should be congratulated for this development. We should charge for parking.

The development looks great.  Could be denser around the station.

The preferred demand for housing shows that a wider ranger of housing types across all suburbs is required but our town plans force the over supply of low density, detached housing in car oriented developments. This may have been the demand of the baby boomers but every generation since has been supplied the wrong mix of housing.  This is also a key contributor to the low levels of affordability in our housing! 

[#Metro]

The preferred demand for housing shows that a wider ranger of housing types across all suburbs is required but our town plans force the over supply of low density, detached housing in car oriented developments. This may have been the demand of the baby boomers but every generation since has been supplied the wrong mix of housing.  This is also a key contributor to the low levels of affordability in our housing! 

Right! And who is responsible for that? Local councils and the local residents that go into fits lest a TOWER bigger than their house be built anywhere near them.

The good thing about greenfields developments is that there are no or low local residents and so opposition is nil.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Fire suit on!  The car park created an ugly, unsafe, useless barrier to the town centre and the school. Nomplacemakjng what so ever! Fail!  Just stupid 20th century planning.  No doubt in 10 years we will be readjng studies about the benefits of replacing park n rides with in- fill development just like Nth America is today

Until such time as:

• Shuttle buses run every few minutes taking passengers directly from their house to the station
• Another shuttle bus runs every few minutes taking kids to the local schools

You will NEVER convince people to leave their cars at home.

Ditch the park'n'rides at stations close to the city that have a high-density population, but they're still needed in the suburbs.

Agreed. It's just a shame that the stops closer to Brisbane don't have a popular feeder service courtesy of the train vs bus era. Bald Hills/Strathpine-Lawnton/Petrie is a prime example why park and rides are needed further out of Brisbane. The park and rides have all expanded like crazy yet when you look at the bus timetables to see a 60 minute peak hour frequency with buses disappearing after 6pm...... Remember this is the new timetables too. This can be thrown out even further when you hit places like Narangba, Burpengary, Morayfield and Caboolture.

[James]

21 century planning principles state we should be building walkable, compact, mixed use suburbs with separated cycling infrastructure and fast, frequent, networked transit (mix of modes).   This is based on best economic, health, social and environmental outcomes delivered by these design principles! To do anything else is building a problem to fix tomorrow at twice the cost!

'Compact' (meaning density - that is, townhouses and apartments) development does not work well in places which are a long way from the CBD. Building apartments/townhouses in woop-woop means they have low value which subsequently attracts low-income earners and people who are not so well-to-do, which over time will not make the area very inviting. Yes, by all means built TOD, but it needs to be closer to the CBD and better supported than by 2tph off-peak frequency.

TOD doesn't need to be to 'The Milton' standard, but places like Moorooka, Oxley, Coorparoo and Toombul all should be sites of TOD. So much so that parking should be removed at these stations (and feeders implemented) with TOD put in. If done well, I feel Oxley could really become a very strong local hub - not on the level of Indoooroopilly or Mt Ommaney, but very successful definitely.

If everybody was willing to live in compact developments with 400m2 blocks (or smaller) and had at least 5 people living in these areas, we wouldn't need urban sprawl out at Drewvale, Windaroo and Joyner because the amount of land being demanded by everyone is smaller. Most of these urban sprawl communities exist due to people who want to live on very large blocks of land with white picket fences. People who value their time and don't want to spend two hours in a car going to/from work alone naturally will choose to own smaller land/apartments over urban sprawl in woop-woop.

In my personal opinion, provided the road layout is PT friendly (i.e. not urban spaghetti), that will be adequate - it at least means a feeder bus will be attractive vs. the car.

[Jonno]

The preferred demand for housing shows that a wider ranger of housing types across all suburbs is required but our town plans force the over supply of low density, detached housing in car oriented developments. This may have been the demand of the baby boomers but every generation since has been supplied the wrong mix of housing.  This is also a key contributor to the low levels of affordability in our housing! 

Right! And who is responsible for that? Local councils and the local residents that go into fits lest a TOWER bigger than their house be built anywhere near them.

The good thing about greenfields developments is that there are no or low local residents and so opposition is nil.

This is the excuse used by local and State Govt to keep the status quo because they are too afraid to admit the planning and infrastructure since 1970's has been a complete failure.  I
I also believe they are underestimating the general public who know are very aware that things have gone pear shaped and something needs to change. 

[STB]

The preferred demand for housing shows that a wider ranger of housing types across all suburbs is required but our town plans force the over supply of low density, detached housing in car oriented developments. This may have been the demand of the baby boomers but every generation since has been supplied the wrong mix of housing.  This is also a key contributor to the low levels of affordability in our housing! 

Right! And who is responsible for that? Local councils and the local residents that go into fits lest a TOWER bigger than their house be built anywhere near them.

The good thing about greenfields developments is that there are no or low local residents and so opposition is nil.

This is the excuse used by local and State Govt to keep the status quo because they are too afraid to admit the planning and infrastructure since 1970's has been a complete failure.  I
I also believe they are underestimating the general public who know are very aware that things have gone pear shaped and something needs to change.

Your ongoing complaints of park and rides and cars in general, sounds to me like a personal ideology of yours, than a realism.  Yes, I know you are extremely anti-car, but in reality, cars are here to stay, whether you like it or not, and we have to build to allow people to have cars, while also build to have a level of sustainable transport to go with it.  It has to be a balance.  Heck, I'm all for public transport, but even I can understand that, and I'll be driving a car within the next year or so myself, mostly because of the nature of the industry I work in has an expectation, and in some instances is just a reality depending on where I can get work due to the type of industry I'm in.

Also, we can't force people to live in apartments just as we can't force people to live on acreage, it's a free country and we just have to build developments as best as possible with as best transport as possible to suit all types of needs.  In general, families will prefer to live well away from the cities in detached housing, while single people, young people and professionals will prefer to live near the city to be close to where all the action for recreation and work.

I agree with others, Park and Rides are not evil, just as long as we educate people and give them alternatives to a park and ride if it suits their lifestyle and their needs.

[Arnz]

Jonno, you can't expect everyone to adapt to the anti-car view and expect everyone stop driving and get a bus/walk/etc.    Unless if Tradies are able to have a bus every 5 minutes from their house to Joe Blogg's place to fix a sink, followed by another frequent bus that leaves every 5 minutes from Joe Blogg's house to Mary Smith's place to fix a leaking shower pipe, then the car is the most efficient form of transport for those workers. 

Also, are the taxpayers willing to subsidise buses leaving every 5 minutes from their house to wherever they want to go to support the "CARS SHOULD BE BANNED" theory.  Going by that theory, we better ban the horse and cart too, they emit horse dung, it's bad for the environment.

[ozbob]

I am extremely pro-public transport. I have car -- ok it is a hybrid, electric/petrol  ... 

First choice I use bus and rail.  The 524 is an exemplar for bus routes  ... I catch a train at Goodna. What a magnificent station is Goodna. A regular swimmer, refractory to a lot of damage by nature ....

Some times I have to use the car. Why? No bus, no train. It is flexible. 

Of course we need cars, of course we need roads, but not all journeys have to be by car.  Many of these journeys can be by bus, ferry, rail, bicycle, or on foot.

Do not put the blinkers on.  The answer is complex ...