Redcliffe Peninsula Line [was MBRL (Petrie to Kippa Ring)]

[O_128]

I expect the kippa ring line residents to be extremley demanding as well.

[somebody]

4tph All to Shorncliffe
4tph Eagle Junction, Northgate, then all to Kippa-Ring
4tph Eagle Junction, Northgate, express to Petrie, then all to Caboolture.

Optimistic! Expect half of that.

Yes, that is what I expect, but the whole notion of building a line to only have 30 minute frequencies is completely bizarre.

[#Metro]

Maybe it (Shorncliffe) should operate as a shuttle in the off peak? More than enough with a train every 7.5 minutes on the main line? Average waiting only 4 mins or so.

[somebody]

Maybe it (Shorncliffe) should operate as a shuttle in the off peak? More than enough with a train every 7.5 minutes on the main line? Average waiting only 4 mins or so.

Huh?

Why wouldn't you make the Caboolture line an express service to Northgate?

Why don't we just slow down the timetable, CityRail style??

[colinw]

Northgate does not strike me as a particularly friendly place to turn back a shuttle service anyway.

Ideally branch line shuttle services should have a dedicated platform at the junction station, so that they can turn back without occupying the main line.

Platform 5, Corinda springs to mind.  Or the former dock platform at Bethania which the Beaudesert rail motors ran from up to 1959.

The same problem exists at Eagle Junction if you wanted to make Doomben a shuttle.

[Golliwog]

Making Doomben a shuttle though would somewhat counter the plans to increase the use of the Doomben Line. Though there's probably enough trains stopping at Eagle Junction that it wouldn't slow you down much at all.

[colinw]

There are no plans to increase use of the Doomben line, just some random frothing on this forum.

I would be supportive of a frequent Doomben shuttle that connected with most or all trains at Eagle Junction.  Seems to work well for the Alamein line in Melbourne.

[Golliwog]

There are no plans to increase use of the Doomben line, just some random frothing on this forum.

I would be supportive of a frequent Doomben shuttle that connected with most or all trains at Eagle Junction.  Seems to work well for the Alamein line in Melbourne.

I know its just frothing on this forum, but I doubt a Doomben shuttle would work unless either the frequency was upgraded or waiting conditions at EJ were made more like Central so passengers can grab a bite to eat while they wait, etc.

[BrizCommuter]

There are no plans to increase use of the Doomben line, just some random frothing on this forum.

I would be supportive of a frequent Doomben shuttle that connected with most or all trains at Eagle Junction.  Seems to work well for the Alamein line in Melbourne.

But where would shuttle trains be reversed at the Eagle Junction end without blocking running lines?

[Golliwog]

There are no plans to increase use of the Doomben line, just some random frothing on this forum.

I would be supportive of a frequent Doomben shuttle that connected with most or all trains at Eagle Junction.  Seems to work well for the Alamein line in Melbourne.

But where would shuttle trains be reversed at the Eagle Junction end without blocking running lines?

That was why it was bought up in the first place.

[aldonius]

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/04b1a56e-8445-47b6-8a35-5ab261081903/industry%20briefing%20june%202011.pdf
Edit to fix link, thanks Simon.

[somebody]

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/04...une%202011.pdf

Bad link.

[ozbob]

Some feedback received, thanks.  Any comments?

As a regular listener to ABC radio you seem familiar to me and as such would like test your feelings on the option to run the Redcliffe rail line down the middle of the existing main road Anzac Ave {elevated at times } with a station at the Northlakes shopping center with underground or overhead pedestrian connection to the center.
The stations thereafter located similar to the current plans but instead of running on a dedicated corridor terminating at Kippa Ring continue down Klinger Rd with a station near the football ground and another near the high school and right turn into Oxley Ave and one or two more stops before a stop at the hospital and then continue the loop to rejoin the single line in.
My recent experience in LA staying at Long Beach made me realize how practical it would be to employ many of the features including the Transit Mall idea and having the train at ground level stopping for passengers as would a tram and having to respond to traffic rules ie stop lights etc. The convenience would increase the patronage and distribute the parking needs for those unable to walk to the stops.

The single line track would require a deal of management until the trains reach the elevated double track at Anzac Ave not too difficult to achieve I feel.
The other point would be the car sets or carriages may need to be capable of tighter turns but once back on the main line they perform as normal. If a special design is required the same design could be used around Caboolture both east and west of the main line and the same for many of the existing lines in the south east.
As I see it currently all of the existing infrastructure and design and layout of our neighborhoods is biased towards the roads system by placing the rail on a new corridor creates a new bias and tends run against the grain at times. So why not exploit the existing bias and flows and share the same space in a way that does not impede the current system at all?
My thinking would be long term to locate all Govt facilities Hospitals Schools etc either above or beside rail lines so the process is self energising and even shopping centers would forgo car spaces if the rail was delivering twice as many customers. As a sales rep for an engineering company back in the 70s we always traveled to meetings in the city by train and it is not as easy as it was then. Do we wait another 40 yrs and go further behind?

[Gazza]

Silly idea, higher cost and lower capacity!

[HappyTrainGuy]

If the trains have to make tighter turns that means slower speeds. If carriages need to be modified your basically allowing dedicated rollingstock instead of any rollingstock capable of the line. Better to have a perminate corridore with higher speeds between station with feeder busses serving the community around the station/to areas of intrest.

[O_128]

No. Single track is always a bad idea. One thing I have been thinking of is that instead of a mango hill station the line swings overpasses anzac road to service north lakes.  Why is it that all our rail lines seem to have a fear of big shopping centres 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Because its difficult to actually get anywhere near them without going underground or resuming a ton of land i guess.

[Golliwog]

I don't like the idea of single track. I've lived on the FG line all my life and its always been annoying, and I simply cannot wait till it is removed.

As for serving North Lakes, TMR wanted to and did a study into it (don't know if it was a full blown one or just looking at buying some more land and talking to the shopping center about getting some space for a station) and IIRC the end result was that the North Lakes shopping center people were not at all interested in having a train station. Thus they stuck with the existing route.

[O_128]

I don't like the idea of single track. I've lived on the FG line all my life and its always been annoying, and I simply cannot wait till it is removed.

As for serving North Lakes, TMR wanted to and did a study into it (don't know if it was a full blown one or just looking at buying some more land and talking to the shopping center about getting some space for a station) and IIRC the end result was that the North Lakes shopping center people were not at all interested in having a train station. Thus they stuck with the existing route.

And wait untill the station opens, There'll be a pic of a pensioner having a cry that the station doesnt service the biggest hub in the corridor.

[longboi]

I don't like the idea of single track. I've lived on the FG line all my life and its always been annoying, and I simply cannot wait till it is removed.

As for serving North Lakes, TMR wanted to and did a study into it (don't know if it was a full blown one or just looking at buying some more land and talking to the shopping center about getting some space for a station) and IIRC the end result was that the North Lakes shopping center people were not at all interested in having a train station. Thus they stuck with the existing route.

And wait untill the station opens, There'll be a pic of a pensioner having a cry that the station doesnt service the biggest hub in the corridor.

You should be an editor with Quest newspapers!

[Set in train]

This topic was 24th down the list, last posted on July 21, 2011.

Is this line happening or another big promise? Is this the new Caboolture - Landsborough project abandonment?

ETA: I've since read back to the top of the seventh page here, it's due to start in 2012. But why the delay?

We've seen this delay on the Springfield line, with Horizon opening it to Richlands in January, but then Horizon not continuing straight on, instead Trackstar awarded the project in Feburary but then a delay until October. Talk about slow progress.

[ozbob]

Still proceeding AFAIK --> http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/M/Moreton-Bay-Rail-Link/Moreton-Bay-Rail-Link-Change-report.aspx

[Set in train]

Still proceeding AFAIK --> http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/M/Moreton-Bay-Rail-Link/Moreton-Bay-Rail-Link-Change-report.aspx

Another frustrating delay, until noticeable work is sustained on the project, many will be sceptical.

[colinw]

Has the LNP articulated any policy about the MBRL?  How likely is the project to survive under a Newman LNP Government?

[Set in train]

Has the LNP articulated any policy about the MBRL?  How likely is the project to survive under a Newman LNP Government?

This is my point, work has progressed to slowly, as if Qld Govt are waiting for an excuse.

[O_128]

Has the LNP articulated any policy about the MBRL?  How likely is the project to survive under a Newman LNP Government?

This is my point, work has progressed to slowly, as if Qld Govt are waiting for an excuse.

Work isn't set to start till next year (coviently) what has me concerned is that no community consultation has been done

[SurfRail]

Has the LNP articulated any policy about the MBRL?  How likely is the project to survive under a Newman LNP Government?

This is my point, work has progressed to slowly, as if Qld Govt are waiting for an excuse.

Work isn't set to start till next year (coviently) what has me concerned is that no community consultation has been done

They have done an enormous amount - I read the community consultation report last night.  Check the website.

[Stillwater]

It is worrying that the Queensland Government likes to portray many transport infrastructure projects as being 'construction ready' -- even to the extent of teasing the federal government with calls such as 'just give us the money and we will build it'.  The formation of IA and its project evaluation process has stopped that to some extent.

Remember, this state government wanted funding for CRR construction even before it had prepared a business case.

With Petrie-Kippa Ring, the project had been a political football over a number of years, again with the state arguing that it was 'construction ready.'  The state had an 'oh s*^t' moment when the feds called its bluff and offered money, together with the Moreton Bay Regional Council.  The state government has been scrambling ever since.

Excessive delays could result in the federal money being withdrawn, at which point Queensland would cry foul, but really only have itself to blame.  The state has a history of not spending all the infrastructure money it gets from Canberra year-on-year.  It asks for more, but can't even spend what it is given.  Bad look.

[colinw]

If the MBRL falls over after an historic agreement between 3 levels of Government it will be a major scandal, and could well influence the outcome in the seats along the line.  Newman will mess with it at his own peril.

What I'd like to see is the Bligh Government lock in the contracts for earthworks, etc. before the next election.  Get the damn thing underway before "tunnels" can mess with it.

[somebody]

Cityrail with DD rollingstock (how many complaints are their in Mel RP about slow DWELL times of DD stock) manage 3min headways in city and have done since 1930's. QR however insist on using Central as a catch-up station on timetable to enable reduction in late running although apart from St Brisbane route I cannot see the benefit for most lines. Unless its to make books look good.

My thoughts, Suburban lines can handle 20t/hr (3min), Main line say 4min (being generous here). Perhaps 1min catch up can be timetabled in for incoming services at places like Northgate, Corinda etc to assist.

A bit hypothetical as we aren't going DD on NG.  Mel also have no real reason to go DD.  I think it was a mistake for Sydney as it definitely slows dwells, but the timetable slows things much more.  I was just in Sydney, and it really is noticeable how long it takes between the doors closing and the trains starting to move.  Even the SMU260s are better with their plug doors.

Capacity has been independently assessed as 19tph mains and 23-25tph suburbans.  Perhaps the latter was before Central #4 had its speed limit lowered to 10km/h.  We're already exceeding 19tph mains for part of the peak with the 3 minute headway.

[petey3801]

I think it was a mistake for Sydney as it definitely slows dwells, but the timetable slows things much more.  I was just in Sydney, and it really is noticeable how long it takes between the doors closing and the trains starting to move.  Even the SMU260s are better with their plug doors.

That would have more to do with the way they operate in Sydney. In Brisbane, the guard gives right-away (two bells), the driver closes the doors, as soon as the door light is out the driver powers up.

In Sydney, the guard closes the doors, makes sure all doors are closed (easy with plug, with non-plug doors they check the small indicator light above the doors), ensures the train is clear then gives the driver right-away (one bell/buzz) and the driver releases the brakes and powers up.

[somebody]

Thanks for that info!  I am sure a number would be interested in knowing that.  Sounds like there is a rolling stock design issue, or is the doors light available to the driver there too?

[petey3801]

Thanks for that info!  I am sure a number would be interested in knowing that.  Sounds like there is a rolling stock design issue, or is the doors light available to the driver there too?

As far as i'm aware the driver has a door open warning light in Sydney also. But either way, the driver must still wait for the right away from the guard before moving, so doesn't really help them as much in that respect. It's basically just the two different ways in which the operations have evolved in the different states.

Another example is in The Netherlands. On arrival at the station, the driver releases the doors (same as QLD, Syd the guard opens all doors once the train has stopped). When it's time to go, the conductor goes to whatever passenger door they are closest to, keys in to the door, blows their whistle and closes the doors (all except the door he's in). When the conductor hits the button to close these doors, a chime goes off in the drivers cab. When all doors are closed, the conductor closes the door he/she is at, which sets off another chime in the drivers cab. When all doors on the train are closed, a green light illuminates on the drivers consol, advising the driver that all doors are closed and the train is O.K. to proceed, and off they go. (Also, While the train is in motion, the conductor goes through and checks tickets etc. If someone doesnt have a ticket, some conductors are able to hand out fines, others who have not got this authority simply sell the passenger a ticket with a €35 surcharge for buying it on the train  - thereby combining the role of the guard and transit officer into one...)

[Set in train]

Any progress on this line this month?

[colinw]

Question: is the funding for this project locked in regardless of the State Election outcome?  Haven't heard a peep from the LNP about this project for ages (although they did manage to oppose it when originally announced, despite having campaigned strongly for it in the last few elections).

[O_128]

What the hell is going on with this one? Construction is to start next year but no EIS, no design scheme and no community consultation has taken place.

[colinw]

Exactly my concern.  Seems to have been a serious lack of action firming this project up. By now I would expect to seen quite a bit of the same kind of documentation as was published prior to the Richlands & Varsity Lakes extensions.

[SurfRail]

What the hell is going on with this one? Construction is to start next year but no EIS, no design scheme and no community consultation has taken place.

Again - there has been tons of community consultation.  You do know there is a project page, right?

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/M/Moreton-Bay-Rail-Link.aspx#community-info

Plenty has happened to date.  All that needs to be resolved is final geo-technical work and the final detailed design, which will take less than a year.  Business case - done.  Corridor - preserved and additional requirements identified.  Basic concept - in place, with updates. 

There will be movement on this by the end of next year at latest I expect.  The sky is not falling in

[colinw]

Thanks SurfRail.  Not so bad then.  For some reason I thought that project page had been static since about February, and I had managed to miss the October newsletter update entirely.

Still seems odd that the MBRL is absent from the QueenslandRail site, other than one mention in the master project map.

[O_128]

It would be nice to see station designs etc for comment something which almost never happens,  and things like how north lakes will be serviced by buses etc. the design still should not be taking so long