Redcliffe Peninsula Line [was MBRL (Petrie to Kippa Ring)]

[verbatim9]

Maybe there are plans in the future to extend the line to Redcliffe itself? Hence the name Redcliffe Peninsula Line.

[#Metro]

An extension would be expensive, however, it would greatly simplify the surrounding bus network.

[tazzer9]

Today I finally saw my first train running along the Redcliffe peninsula line. (6 car EMU).  I noticed that it was running a weird way, i saw it going along the UP track towards petrie, but then a few minutes later, it has stopped at murrumba downs and started heading back towards kippa ring along the same track.   I know it's all Bi-di signalled, but  if this is just purely for route familiarity and testing, then why turn it around at murrumba downs?   Its not like this  line is going to be regularly using its bi-di capabilities due to the side platforms.

[red dragin]

Testing the bi-di signalling works perhaps?

The new traffic lights that lead from the new road into Kallangur Station have been turned on. Hopefully a sign the new road (Gallipoli Way) will come into use soon. Will remove almost all cars from a local rat run.

[petey3801]

Crews need to be trained in all routes that are possible on the line before being signed off. Normally the trains will run up to Kallangur before turning back towards Kippa Ring, but it may not have been required (or may have specifically been testing something that didn't need the train to run to Kallangur).

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Ballot for seats on first train

IT HAS a name and a start date but the question now on everyone's lips is who will get a seat on the first passenger train to travel on the Redcliffe Peninsula Line.

While 230 seats will be reserved for VIPs and people aged 100 years or more, everyone else will have the chance to enter a ballot for 230 seats on the first train to hit the tracks on October 3.

Quest Community News has partnered with the State Government for the ballot which will open online at 9am on September 12 and close at midnight on September 23.

At that time, the winners will be selected at random to make the historic journey.

State Labor MP for Redcliffe Yvette D'Ath said the railway line was more than a century in the making so it was only fair community members were on board as well as VIPs.

"I know many locals will want to be on the first train so they can be part of this historic event, so to manage the strong community interest there will be a public ballot for a seat on the first train," she said.

The railway line will open with community celebrations at each of the six new stations on October 3.

Normal services start on October 4.

Ms D'Ath announced the Moreton Bay Rail Link would be called the Redcliffe Peninsula Line on September 2.

"I have listened to the views of locals and I am confident they will embrace this name, which celebrates the Redcliffe region," she said.

Moreton Bay Regional Council Mayor Allan Sutherland said the name recognised the Moreton Bay Region's history.

Federal LNP MP for Petrie Luke Howarth said: "I'm sure that, from the first week in October, seeing 'Redcliffe Peninsula' on the electronic schedules at places like Central Station will bring smiles to many faces, and a feeling of great pride to everyone involved in the project."

BALLOT DETAILS:

■ The ballot for seats on the first train opens at 9am on September 12 and closes at midnight on September 23

■ To enter, visit the website http://moretonbayrail.qld.gov.au

■ It is open to residents from Redcliffe, Pine Rivers and North Lakes

[Derwan]

Surely Bob will be one of the VIPs? 

[ozbob]

Surely Bob will be one of the VIPs? 

LOL  I don't think I am popular in some circles at the moment ..

I might go out during the first week of operation - off peak!

[verbatim9]

Channel 7 Just did the Vip report and showed the interior of a new generation train. Probably be the first to ride in a new train too the ones on the VIP ride.

[petey3801]

As has been said many times before, NGR will NOT be taking passengers anywhere for a while yet, certainly not for the MBRL opening, as they have not been cleared to carry passengers (hell, they haven't even started on-track testing yet!). Until the first unit has been accepted for service, no passengers can travel onboard.

[tazzer9]

Seriously, what is wrong with the NGR.  With 4 currently in the shed, familiarity and training on both the train and the maintenance centre should be mostly completed.  The rail network is going to completely stuff itself with all the extra 3 car services most of the lines are going to get once MBRL opens.

[petey3801]

Familiarity and training crews on the trains is completely different to testing the trains. Static testing in a stabling yard is but one very small aspect of the testing regime required for any new rollingstock to enter service. A very large amount of on track testing needs to be completed before any train carries a signle passenger. This is not limited to the NGR, this is what happens any time a new train design is being introduced. 160/260s had over 6 months of on-track testing before entering service. The NSW Waratah had a 4car test vehicle that ran around for many, many months, etc. That's just how it is.
Do not expect to see NGRs in service this year.
The new timetable was designed to operate with zero NGR trains in service. There will be a few more 3 car trains floating around, but that's about it. Won't be any massive meltdown of the network.

[tazzer9]

That's my point, the majority of the testing is the on-track network testing.  The static stuff shouldn't be taking this long, especially considering we have 4 now.  We currently don't know if we are going to have an issue like the M-set origin/destination or the doors don't provide a good seal.

When you say the new timetable was designed without NGR, that just means alot more 3 car services.  They haven't found nearly enough efficiency savings to cover the opening at all. 

[BrizCommuter]

There a going to be a lot of p****d off commuters if there are more 3-car services when MBRL opens.

[petey3801]

They'll get over it. Short term pain, long term gain. As long as all the 3 car trains a book-ended by 6 car trains (which they will be), it really won't be a problem.
Yes, the static testing has taken longer than expected, however being a brand new design and brand new operating model (not just the PPP stuff, but also the guards at the back and so forth), plus the fact that the Newman Gov't effectively blocked any sort of union involvement in the design, meaning late changes needed to be made in the cabs, means it has been delayed. The extent of the delay will likely only be in the order of a few months, which really isn't that bad, all things considered (they were due in to service mid-late 2016, so early 2017 isn't that bad when looking at some other projects, not just in the rail industry either, that get blown out way beyond that!)

[tazzer9]

They don't get over it, people do not use PT if they know they may not even get on the train.  The 362 bus which connects to the ferny grove train rather well in the morning had it's connecting passengers almost halve when the new ferny grove timetable came out because it now connected to the infamous 7:25am 3 car service.

[petey3801]

It will be for a few more bloody months. What would you rather, opening the new line now and having a few more 3 car trains around or just leave a perfectly good piece of infrastructure sitting there, costing money and not being used simply so no more 3 car trains need to be run, for all of a few months? They are the two options, because the NGR ARE NOT READY YET. The people who don't like it can sit in the traffic jams instead for all I give a toss. A few minutes before and after, there will be a 6 car train. If that is the worst problem some people have, they are going pretty damned well, to be honest. In a few months time, the 3 car trains will start to disappear again and very soon after, nobody will remember there were 3 car trains running beforehand.

[ozbob]

Thanks Petey. 

Let's just leave the 3 car issue for now.  The fact is the trains were late, they needed modifications due to the LNP ' booby trap '.  They will be out and about later this year.

Queensland Rail will do the best for now with the rolling stock they have.   I live in hope that a BETY or 2 might be recalled to active duty but I digress.   

[BrizCommuter]

They don't get over it, people do not use PT if they know they may not even get on the train.  The 362 bus which connects to the ferny grove train rather well in the morning had it's connecting passengers almost halve when the new ferny grove timetable came out because it now connected to the infamous 7:25am 3 car service.

+1. BrizCommuter knows many commuters who have been indefinitely put off from using public transport by overcrowding from 3-car services. The same also happened from inner northern busway overcrowding a few years back - none returned to using public transport!

[tazzer9]

Will all the Kippa ring trains be 6 cars? Anyone got a sneak peak at the working timetable.  I can see serious issues and less than expected passenger numbers if some of them aren't. 

[red dragin]

In non 3 car related news, all the construction fencing was removed at both road entrances to Murrumba Downs Station between this morning and 5pm today. Just traffic bollards and road closed signs in place now. Haven't been passed Kallangur today to see if similar has happened there.

[STB]

Obviously there is a disconnect going by the conversation above between the realities of railway projects and the (unrealistic) expectations of the travelling public.   

[SurfRail]

The underlying issue is not the delay, it's public maladministration which has necessitated the delay.  People should expect things to be better handled.

However, the egg can't be unscrambled, so there is no point in complaining about how long it is taking.  The complaint should be about the procurement process that caused the signalling stuffups, the non-functional station upgrades, the fact the 160/260 orders weren't kept rolling etc.

[petey3801]

No, not all Kippa Ring trains will be 6 cars. Just like any other line ( apart from maybe GC/Airport) there will be some 3 car trains for the time being.
Are 3 car trains in peak ideal? No.
Are they required? For the time being, yes.
Is there a way around it? Not if we want Kippa Ring open and don't want a frequency reduction.
Will the majority of services be 3cars? No, not by a long shot.
Is it a long term solution? No. Once the NGR sets start entering service, the 3car trains will very quickly disappear. Remember, each 6 car NGR that enters service means 2 less 3 car trains.
Will multiple 3 car trains run one after the other? No. Just like on the Ferny Grove line, each 3 car train will have a 6 car train before and after it. As for those people who have left PT because they are too precious to wait an extra 6mins (or get to the station 6 mins earlier) will be more than made up for by the extra patronage gained by opening the MBRL.
Are the NGR sets running late? Yes.
Is any of this the end of the world? No. Life goes on, travel patterns will change. People will drive, others will stop driving and change to PT. Once the fare reform has been implemented and NGRs have begun entering revenue service, many of those people who have started driving will come back to catching the train.
Expect to see the first NGRs out testing very, very soon.
(Also, it doesn't matter if there is one or 100 trains at Wulkuraka, all the static testing needs to be done to each unit, not just once for the fleet).

[BrizCommuter]

So which services will be 3-car then?

[HappyTrainGuy]

There a going to be a lot of p****d off commuters if there are more 3-car services when MBRL opens.

Oh boo hoo. They would be in the minority. Literally. Suggest you actually look at the loadings on the current Caboolture/Petrie line trains. Also remember the empty trains that park and queue up waiting to get into petrie (which also prevents morning Nambour bound express services from running). Ever since the revised timetable that got rid of the random Geebung, Zillmere, Carseldine, Strathpine express trains lots of capacity has been added. And remember they are running express Northgate-City. A couple services might be a little crowded by the time they get to Bald Hills-Zillmere but that would even out once people adjust to the new timetables.

Its not the end of the world - and plus there are work arounds such as boarding a Caboolture express and the fact we don't have feeder buses south of Petrie

[HappyTrainGuy]

Will all the Kippa ring trains be 6 cars? Anyone got a sneak peak at the working timetable.  I can see serious issues and less than expected passenger numbers if some of them aren't.

Care to say where these issues will be located or what they even are?

[BrizCommuter]

Oh boo hoo.

The lack of compassion for commuters who may not be able to board a train in a few weeks amazes me.

[HappyTrainGuy]

They don't get over it, people do not use PT if they know they may not even get on the train.  The 362 bus which connects to the ferny grove train rather well in the morning had it's connecting passengers almost halve when the new ferny grove timetable came out because it now connected to the infamous 7:25am 3 car service.

That's just your perception and you correlating the two. I can just as well say 2 people moved onto the later service 60 minutes later. 6 had family constraints preventing them from catching it. 5 had uni/tafe course times change. 2 changed work or retired. 1 now gets dropped off at the station by their husband when he is going to work. Its a whole 50-60 minutes or whatever between that service and the next one. It doesn't take much to turn people off from catching that 1 feeder bus if their work times get changed by 20 minutes.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Oh boo hoo.

The lack of compassion for commuters who may not be able to board a train in a few weeks amazes me.

Unable to board where? On those trains where you can still get a seat at Carseldine?

[BrizCommuter]

Oh boo hoo.

The lack of compassion for commuters who may not be able to board a train in a few weeks amazes me.

Unable to board where? On those trains where you can still get a seat at Carseldine?

Add MBRL passengers, halve length of train = oh dear!

Now blogged
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/redcliffe-sardine-line.html

[STB]

Oh boo hoo.

The lack of compassion for commuters who may not be able to board a train in a few weeks amazes me.

It's not a lack of compassion, it's just the reality of life.  You don't always get what you want in life, and sometimes life sucks, but hey, if you are adaptable, you move on and work out ways to make the best of it until life gets better.

I think all of us gets that there will be some people upset with 3 car trains running and the potential that some will get left behind for the next train is that train is too full, but the reality is there isn't much that can be done about it.  Petey has pointed out quite clearly the realities of rolling out the NGR project, which isn't much different to past rollingstock being rolled out (I can only imagine what it was like when the first EMUs rolled out back in 1979!).  Slight delay, but not the end of the world.

[red dragin]

Given the NGR delays, it's fortunate in a way that MBRL is opening 9 months later, that's 9 months less of those additional 3 car services.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Kudos on the constant scare mongering BC. Keep it up.

You have failed to mention anything at all of Kippa Ring services running limited express to the city. The passenger shift of Northgate-Bowen Hills onto the Shorncliffe, Doomben and Airport lines where there is PLENTY of capacity available. Eagle Junction, Wooloowin and Albion still have the air conditioned air of the Airport, Doomben and Shorncliffe services. Toombul and Nundah have the shorncliffe trains. Northgate and Eagle Junction have the option of Kippa Ring, Caboolture/Nambour, Airport, Shorncliffe and Doomben services. You have failed to mention anything about the 7 minute frequency of Lawnton-Virginia - so if you are one of the few people that do miss a train because its a 3 car service you only have to wait 7 WHOLE MINUTES for the next one to turn up (that's more frequent than the holy grail buz peak hour standard). You have failed to mention anything about the removal of the parked trains from Lawnton-Zillmere doing nothing because they simply have no where else to go as they wait for their slot at petrie (they can now provide additional services). And another thing. The running pattern. A number of the Caboolture/Nambour services (that still have capacity available) depart Petrie at the same time/a couple mins after the Kippa Ring citybound services. Run them into the same platform at Petrie and you then offer the incentive of a few citybound passengers to make a swap onto a train that not only gets them to pass the train they were previously on not long after leaving Petrie but because the frequency is so high you arrive at Central before the previous Kippa Ring service does. For example if I catch the 7.28 train from Kippa Ring, swap at Petrie to transfer onto the citybound express Caboolture train I will pass the 7.28 service I was on. I'd pass the 7.22 service before Northgate. And I'll arrive at Central as soon as the 7.16 citybound Kippa Ring service departs the platform.

3 car services will not be as bad as you are making it out to be. People will temporarily adjust between Petrie-Northgate and as long as there is flexibility in the network to make a couple temporary mods to shift the loadings around it will be okay (mods that you do not get on the Ferny Grove line). Yes, some will be crowded and yes a few might miss out of getting on but its not the end of the world.

[SurfRail]

Such histrionics.

Everybody paying any attention to this board for the past year knew there would be more 3 car sets running until the extra rollingstock came online.  Anybody expecting a government procurement process of any kind to run on time is tempting fate.

Why complain if you can't propose a solution?  It's just having a sook.  Doesn't achieve anything.

Focus energy on getting stuck into the causes instead of tinkering with the symptoms.

[petey3801]

Not much that I can add to what has been said above, really.
No, I do not know the exact services, nor the exact number of services, that will be 3 cars. However, I wouldn't be surprised if, other than the Northgate services, no other Sector 2 trains will run as 3 cars apart from what already does so.
When people have to wait 15+ minutes for the next train because they couldn't fit on a 3car train (such as that 1730ish Cleveland train), I have a bit of 'compassion'. When they have to wait 6-8mins for the next one, sorry, but my compassion bucket is empty. Sector 1 commuters can just miss one train, not get on the next and get on the one after and STILL have not waited as long as people on lines like Shorncliffe with 15min peak frequency.
People will figure out what trains are 3cars and avoid them where possible. Hopefully QR will release information about what trains are 3cars in peak like they did with the Ferny Grove line.

[ozbob]

Such histrionics.

Everybody paying any attention to this board for the past year knew there would be more 3 car sets running until the extra rollingstock came online.  Anybody expecting a government procurement process of any kind to run on time is tempting fate.

Why complain if you can't propose a solution?  It's just having a sook.  Doesn't achieve anything.

Focus energy on getting stuck into the causes instead of tinkering with the symptoms.

+1 

Onwards!

[ozbob]

The political system is broken.  We need to do something about that.   Start considering if any of you will stand for election as an independent in the forth coming state election.  By doing that we might be able to get some focussed attention on the matters that do matter!

[BrizCommuter]

Kudos on the constant scare mongering BC. Keep it up.

You have failed to mention anything at all of Kippa Ring services running limited express to the city. The passenger shift of Northgate-Bowen Hills onto the Shorncliffe, Doomben and Airport lines where there is PLENTY of capacity available. Eagle Junction, Wooloowin and Albion still have the air conditioned air of the Airport, Doomben and Shorncliffe services. Toombul and Nundah have the shorncliffe trains. Northgate and Eagle Junction have the option of Kippa Ring, Caboolture/Nambour, Airport, Shorncliffe and Doomben services. You have failed to mention anything about the 7 minute frequency of Lawnton-Virginia - so if you are one of the few people that do miss a train because its a 3 car service you only have to wait 7 WHOLE MINUTES for the next one to turn up (that's more frequent than the holy grail buz peak hour standard). You have failed to mention anything about the removal of the parked trains from Lawnton-Zillmere doing nothing because they simply have no where else to go as they wait for their slot at petrie (they can now provide additional services). And another thing. The running pattern. A number of the Caboolture/Nambour services (that still have capacity available) depart Petrie at the same time/a couple mins after the Kippa Ring citybound services. Run them into the same platform at Petrie and you then offer the incentive of a few citybound passengers to make a swap onto a train that not only gets them to pass the train they were previously on not long after leaving Petrie but because the frequency is so high you arrive at Central before the previous Kippa Ring service does. For example if I catch the 7.28 train from Kippa Ring, swap at Petrie to transfer onto the citybound express Caboolture train I will pass the 7.28 service I was on. I'd pass the 7.22 service before Northgate. And I'll arrive at Central as soon as the 7.16 citybound Kippa Ring service departs the platform.

3 car services will not be as bad as you are making it out to be. People will temporarily adjust between Petrie-Northgate and as long as there is flexibility in the network to make a couple temporary mods to shift the loadings around it will be okay (mods that you do not get on the Ferny Grove line). Yes, some will be crowded and yes a few might miss out of getting on but its not the end of the world.

Scaremongering? BrizCommuter is usually right. Just wait for the social media (and possibly mainstream media) backlash if more commuters get their trains chopped in half. Anyway the point of the blog post was so that maybe QR want to warn commuters of affected services, and give another kick up the posterior to politicians who need to think about ordering more NGRs. Otherwise we will be in the same situation yet again in a few years time. There will be a more detailed blog post on extra train requirements after the new line opens.

[red dragin]

In non 3 car related news, all the construction fencing was removed at both road entrances to Murrumba Downs Station between this morning and 5pm today. Just traffic bollards and road closed signs in place now. Haven't been passed Kallangur today to see if similar has happened there.

And this morning the bollards and signs are gone, traffic lights are on and it appears you can drive into the car park. Will have a look this afternoon.