Redcliffe Peninsula Line [was MBRL (Petrie to Kippa Ring)]

[kram0]

And these people think they can build CRR......How can many people on this forum know there were and still are major signalling issues as far back as April, but the minister just found out about them today? I am calling bull$hit.

[#Metro]

I'm sorry, but you have fallen hook line and sinker for a dodgy Mater press release. Mater Healthcare is tiny compared to the behemoth that is Queensland Health, and is also governed by completely different data and privacy legislation. It's apples and oranges.

Did Queensland Health ask for a sample demo / model like Mater did?

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Rail link 'could be down for six months'

It could take six months before rail experts can get the train signals on the new $1.1 billion Moreton Bay Rail Link to talk to the train signals on the rest of south-east Queensland's rail network.

Tens of thousands of Redcliffe and Kippa-Ring commuters hoping to catch a new train to Brisbane in July or August, may now have to wait until Christmas.

The rail signals, which are supposed to read 26 computerised signal messages, are crashing after reading 15 signal messages – effectively letting just three trains pass through Petrie station.

Petrie station is the link between the new Moreton Bay Rail Link and the rest of south-east Queensland's rail network.

That means some trains could run red lights, potentially meaning trains could be at a minor risk of a collision, after cost-cutting in 2012.

The Rail, Tram and Bus Union described the situation as "a farce".

"The LNP made a total hash of the MBRL," union president Owen Doogan said.

"They built a system so incompatible with the rest of the rail network it simply can't be opened," he said.

"The LNP ordered a system which just doesn't talk to the rest of the network. It's a farce.

"It's like trying to join old school copper based dial-up internet with superfast fibre based broadband – they are two different things. It never should have happened."

However the LNP's former transport minister Scott Emerson on Monday said he was always told by the Department of Transport and Main Roads and by his director-general Michael Caltabiano that the project was "on track."

"When the contract was awarded by the department, we were assured the project was on track, would be delivered and would be appropriate."

Mr Emerson asked why former transport minister Jackie Trad and Minister Stirling Hinchliffe were confident a month ago and only recently questioned the signalling systems.

After a 100-year wait, commuters were expecting to ride on Greater Brisbane's newest train line before the RNA Exhibition in August 2016.

Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe on Monday morning pulled the pin on the opening of the new $1 billion rail line after receiving advice from Queensland Rail – involved for the first time in the three-year project – that the Moreton Bay Rail Link's traffic signal system was not talking with Queensland Rail's signal system.

On Monday afternoon it was revealed that the previous state government ruled Queensland Rail, the state's main rail authority, out of the design and construction phase of the project to find savings.

Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said it would take a "matter of months" to get the two sets of traffic signals talking to each other.

"But it could be up to six months, but nonetheless, we strongly respect the action taken by Queensland Rail and the Minister (Stirling Hinchliffe) in closing the line indefinitely."

"It's a tough call for them to make because they are going to have to wear some heat about the decision."

Mr Dow said questions should be asked about the signalling system.

Queensland Rail was excluded from the design and construction stages of the project and only became involved in the commissioning of the project.

Mr Dow said Rail Back on Track could not understand why meeting Queensland Rail traffic signalling standards was not a key requisite for the project's contact when it was won by Thiess.

"You would think so, but if there is no-one there to validate that then it is not until they come to the actual commissioning phase and then you realise it is not working," he said.

Mr Dow said Rail Back on Track believed Queensland Rail was* [ should have been ] involved from the beginning.

Since 2008-09 Queensland Rail has done Caboolture to Beerburrum, the Corinda to Darra track upgrade, the Darra to Richlands railway construction, Richlands to Springfield rail construction and the recently-announced Coomera to Helensvale track upgrade.

Queensland Rail is now in charge of the Moreton Bay Rail Link project.

Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe is expected to announce on Tuesday who will run an independent audit of the project to identify why the signalling problem was not identified earlier.

*Note: typo

[ozbob]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/moreton-bay-rail-stink.html
Moreton Bay Rail Stink!

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow now Brisbane, Queensland

BrizCommuter: Moreton Bay Rail Stink > http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/moreton-bay-rail-stink.html ... #qldpol

===============

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

31st May 2016

MBRL Rail Fiasco: Send in the Auditor General!

Greetings,

RAIL Back on Track calls on Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe to send in the Queensland Auditor-General Andrew Greaves  to investigate the MBRL rail fiasco. The Auditor-General's office has previously been involved in rail issues, for example, investigation of cost blowouts with the Sunlander procurement.

The Auditor General has independence and specific powers under the Auditor General Act 2009. Giving false or misleading information or obstructing an authorised auditor entails a financial penalty. We believe these powers are essential given the circumstances and the high cost of the cost explosion identified.

We want to know who was the responsible Minister was when the signalling system was chosen and why the rail operator, Queensland Rail (QR) was excluded from day one? The exclusion of QR does not make sense to us, and the Auditor-General needs to investigate that. What was the purpose of excluding the rail operator from a rail project? Perhaps former Transport Minister Scott Emerson can explain that.

This is yet another example of major problems in transport in SEQ. The other big problem is Brisbane City Council's bus network and Lord Mayor Graham Quirk's resistance to bus reforms.

Minister Stirling Hinchliffe, send in the Auditor General!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org


References:

Queensland Audit Office
https://www.qao.qld.gov.au/

Auditor-General delivers scathing report on project to replace the Sunlander train
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-09/scathing-report-on-project-to-replace-the-sunlander/5954246

Excerpts from legislation

Auditor-General Act 2009
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/a/auditgena09.pdf

8 Auditor-general not subject to direction
(1) The auditor-general is not subject to direction by any person
about—
(a) the way in which the auditor-general's powers in
relation to audit are to be exercised; or
(b) the priority to be given to audit matters.
(2) Subsection (1) applies despite the Public Service Act 2008

50 False or misleading information
A person must not state anything to an authorised auditor that
the person knows is false or misleading in a material
particular.
Maximum penalty—80 penalty units.

51 Obstruction of authorised auditor
(1) A person must not obstruct an authorised auditor in the
exercise of a power under this Act, unless the person has a
reasonable excuse.
Maximum penalty—80 penalty units.
(2) In this section— obstruct includes hinder and resist, and attempt to obstruct.

[Stillwater]

Quote: "The LNP's former transport minister Scott Emerson on Monday said he was always told by the Department of Transport and Main Roads and by his director-general Michael Caltabiano that the project was "on track."      

[ozbob]

And then Caltabiano was sacked ...

This is a measure of how switched on LM Quirk and former Transport Minister Emerson are:

Waaahhaaaaaa  - the Cleveland Solution ....  little wonder that MBRL went off the rails hey?  lol

[#Metro]

Are we still heading "Towards Q2", lol?

[ozbob]

 

[petey3801]

And these people think they can build CRR......How can many people on this forum know there were and still are major signalling issues as far back as April, but the minister just found out about them today? I am calling bull$hit.

Umm, likely because:
1) TMR were constantly telling him everything would be sorted and ok to open;
2) QR were doing everything they possibly could to get the systems working but it finally came to a head in the past couple days and the decision was made to delay it.
Or something along those lines. The current government isn't at fault here, it is the previous (ie: Newman LNP) government that has caused this, whether you're rose coloured glasses let you believe that or not.

[techblitz]

emerson would be cleared of any wrongdoing....quietly confident of that...hes not going to be pulled before a commitee solely because thiess/trackstar was chosen......who im going to assume were hired due to thier cost effective and successful involvement with springfield stage 2.

These things usually start at the bottom so i am pointing the finger at thiess/trackstar who will now have all thier correspondence scrutinised by the encumbents....should make for an intersting blame game....

[#Metro]

This is going to be VERY expensive if they have to rip it all out. Though I doubt ripping it out is necessary.

Could be the new health payroll style debacle this.

[techblitz]

^
potentially more than the savings they were after.A harsh yet predictable lesson learnt. Pay peanuts.....get peanuts....pay for quality(QR).....get quality.....its ironic....labor learned thier lesson with ibm.....now the lnp have learned one with thiess...

[verbatim9]

I dont think they would of had enough trains anyway to start in July as NGR is also behind schedule!?

[ozbob]

I dont think they would of had enough trains anyway to start in July as NGR is also behind schedule!?

Enough trains. NGR were never required to start MBRL services.   Due to the fact that the NGR trains have been effectively booby-trapped by the former administration they will not be ready for some time.

[ozbob]

And these people think they can build CRR......How can many people on this forum know there were and still are major signalling issues as far back as April, but the minister just found out about them today? I am calling bull$hit.

Umm, likely because:
1) TMR were constantly telling him everything would be sorted and ok to open;
2) QR were doing everything they possibly could to get the systems working but it finally came to a head in the past couple days and the decision was made to delay it.
Or something along those lines. The current government isn't at fault here, it is the previous (ie: Newman LNP) government that has caused this, whether you're rose coloured glasses let you believe that or not.

Agree absolutely Petey. 

A little bit off topic, in my mad youth which corresponded to the equally mad sixties I had a pair of prescription glasses made up with actual rose coloured lenses ---   it did seem funny at the time!   

[ozbob]

Understand the system that is being installed on the Kippa Ring branch is Ansaldo STS MacroLok [ http://www.railwaysignalling.eu/ansaldo-sts-macrolok-interlocking ].

This seems to be very new, and might help explain some of the issues they are having.

[kram0]

And these people think they can build CRR......How can many people on this forum know there were and still are major signalling issues as far back as April, but the minister just found out about them today? I am calling bull$hit.

Umm, likely because:
1) TMR were constantly telling him everything would be sorted and ok to open;
2) QR were doing everything they possibly could to get the systems working but it finally came to a head in the past couple days and the decision was made to delay it.
Or something along those lines. The current government isn't at fault here, it is the previous (ie: Newman LNP) government that has caused this, whether you're rose coloured glasses let you believe that or not.

Oh I have no doubt Newman was behind the signalling system. But I also have no doubt that the current governemnt knew of these delays months ago as many people did, and if you think otherwise you are kidding yourself.

[mufreight]

KramO, I think you are being a bit hard on the present government over this stuff up.
The origin of the problem stems from the previous incompetent transport minister excluding QR from both the oversight of the project and from actual involvement as it had been in the previous two Springfield line projects both of which were brought on line without problems from day one ahead of time and under budget.
As to when the current government knew of the problem and the extent of the incompatibility between the two systems that only became apparent to all with the first stage of the commissioning when the interface between the old signalling at Petrie was connected to the new system for the MBRL and QR had oversight of the operation of trains. 
Until that time the project was under the oversight of TMR who lacked the expertise to realize that a there was a problem with the interface until the two systems were linked and the contractors attempted to get them to interface and found that there were considerable shortcomings.
So much for the do it on the cheap policies of the previous transport minister and government which will undoubtedly see Queensland taxpayers with a big bill for a less than optimal system that provides proof if any was needed that TMR should have no involvment in rail projects.

[Gazza]

Ansaldo eh?
No wonder it is crap.

[#Metro]

Ansaldo eh?
No wonder it is cr%p.

Maybe they need to call in people from Europe. Different countries have different signalling systems. They might be of help.

[verbatim9]

Ansaldo eh?
No wonder it is cr%p.

Maybe they need to call in people from Europe. Different countries have different signalling systems. They might be of help.

Surely the developer and manufacturer (Ansaldo STS MacroLok) of the new signalling system for MBRL can provide an interface to communicate with the QR signaling system?

[verbatim9]

I dont think they would of had enough trains anyway to start in July as NGR is also behind schedule!?

Enough trains. NGR were never required to start MBRL services.   Due to the fact that the NGR trains have been effectively booby-trapped by the former administration they will not be ready for some time.

Well at least it buys them time. Blessing in disguise.

[Stillwater]

Will Mr Emerson issue a public statement confirming that he will cooperate fully with the independent investigator looking into the MBRL signalling issue?  And will he agree to making the sealed correspondence and emails to his office as Transport Minister 'unsealed' for the purposes of the inquiry?

[mufreight]

The second NGR set is on the ground and should be at Wulkaraka by now, the first set is being prepared for a trip to Maryborough for further testing and accreditation and the grapevine tells that it would be ready for the original opening date for the MBRL but with the present deferment of the opening of the MBRL it is probable that both of the first sets will have been commissioned before the MBRL opening.

[kram0]

The second NGR set is on the ground and should be at Wulkaraka by now, the first set is being prepared for a trip to Maryborough for further testing and accreditation and the grapevine tells that it would be ready for the original opening date for the MBRL but with the present deferment of the opening of the MBRL it is probable that both of the first sets will have been commissioned before the MBRL opening.

Possible all 75 NGR's will be delivered before MBRL is open...

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

Redcliffe and Bayside Herald 1st June 2016 page 3

No more Council cash

[petey3801]

By what i've been told, it is unlikely that there will be any NGR sets in service this year..

[Jacek]

Steve Baxter, the entrepreneur and tech investor says you have to have at least one person in the team who is an #expert #specialist and #subjectmatterexpert. Well, it looks like there was one missing when planning, type approving, design, installing, testing and commissioning the new MacroLok signalling system 

[tazzer9]

By what i've been told, it is unlikely that there will be any NGR sets in service this year..

Wow, Not even the waratahs took that long.   Has the government ever considered what would happen if there was a serious act of weather or vandalism that caused the loss of a several units.  Maybe consider bus replacements for the doomben and rosewood line during peak hour when MBRL opens and there are no new trains to run on them.  Maybe use all the ICE's on current peak hour 3 car trains. 

[ozbob]

Re electricity on the branch.

We know that there were problems west of Ipswich on the Rosewood line that restricted the number of trains to 2 x 6 car ( or 4 x 3 car) due to not enough juice. This was eventually rectified with a new 33KV feed at Karrabin.

The problem really was recognised in 1994 when SMU 200 came into service (bigger motors) and this restricted the number of SMU200 and SMU220 that could run west of Corinda.

Is MBRL a case of history repeating?


This from the archives:

Minister for Mines and Energy
The Honourable Geoff Wilson

Monday, April 21, 2008

Electricity upgrade in Ipswich City assists public transport expansion

A $5.7 million electricity upgrade project in Ipswich City will support the western region?s public transport expansion plans, Energy Minister Geoff Wilson said today.

The Energex project, which involved the installation of a new 110,000 volt powerline between Blacksoil and the Queensland Rail substation at Wulkuraka, will enable Queensland Rail to upgrade transport services through the Ipswich/Rosewood rail corridor.

The project will also assist with Energex?s planned future works, which once completed will help reinforce the electricity network in the Ipswich CBD, western suburbs and Amberley airport region.

Mr Wilson said the project would support the area?s current and future growth.

?Ipswich City is experiencing substantial residential and commercial growth, and forecasts show the rapid growth in the area will continue for years to come,? he said.

?The electricity upgrade project will allow Queensland Rail to meet the growing demand for public transport, and will also feed into future Energex projects to ensure we meet the region?s increasing power needs.?

Member for Ipswich West Wayne Wendt said the upgrade would ensure the growing demands for power were met in years to come.

?The State Government and Energex are committed to providing a reliable electricity network throughout South East Queensland, in particular to the growing Ipswich region,? Mr Wendt said.

Following the project completion, Energex has engaged a local community group to plant native trees that will complement the natural revegetation process.

Energex thanked residents for their patience and understanding during this important upgrade to the local electricity network.

The project is part of a record $4 billion-plus five-year capital expenditure program currently being undertaken by Energex. In the 2007-08 financial year Energex is investing around $800 million on upgrades to its electricity network while a further $300 million-plus has been set aside to maintain and operate the network ? an overall average of more than $3 million a day.

[ozbob]

So I've heard that two of the current issues are:

* overhead supply can only supply enough power for two trains on the branch at once (11kv supply instead of the usual 33kv - there is no Energex 33kv on the peninsula)
* signalling can only handle one train in each direction, and still doesn't work with the rest of the network.

Anyone heard similar?

[ozbob]

^

The signalling system can be fixed.   If they do nothing about the power it could be a major issue - will certainly limit the number of trains and might effect reliability too.  There is clear evidence that 33KV is needed.

[ozbob]

For interest,  these sort of issues not confined to Queensland ...

Bungles, bungles, bungles ...

From the Melbourne Age click here!

New stations short of train power

New stations short of train power
Clay Lucas
April 23, 2011

TWO new suburban railway stations being built in Melbourne's south-east, planned since 2006, will sit dormant for six months after they are completed later this year.

The Department of Transport says there is not enough electricity to stop and start trains travelling through the stations.

Construction of Cardinia Road station on the Pakenham line and Lynbrook station on the Cranbourne line began last year, and building works will be completed by the end of 2011. However, residents who live nearby will wait until mid-2012 to use either station.

The transport department found last September there was not enough electricity available in the existing overhead wires to power trains leaving the stations at an acceptable speed. As a result, new electricity sub-stations will have to be built, a department spokeswoman said.

Transport Minister Terry Mulder has told Parliament this will mean trains will not stop at the stations for about six months.

Daniel Bowen, president of the Public Transport Users Association, said the planning behind the new stations - announced by then transport minister Peter Batchelor five years ago - had not been well managed.

''This is a Yes Minister scenario: people are crying out for rail stations in these fast-growing suburbs so to have them lying dormant for months is just awful,'' he said. ''This underscores why public transport management needs a shake-up.

''We can only hope that the government's planned Public Transport Development Authority will do a better job at ensuring growing suburbs get much-needed transport facilities in an efficient, timely manner.''

Mr Mulder said the former Labor government was responsible for the planning issues surrounding the stations.

''Each and every [railway] project that the former government had its fingerprints on, turns out to be exactly the same,'' he told Parliament this month.

The opposition, though, said the power upgrades for the new stations had been fully funded, and that the Baillieu government had shifted this funding to pay for its other election promises.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/new-stations-short-of-train-power-20110422-1drit.html#ixzz1KHH01sw3

[#Metro]

Is the power system problem confirmed or just heresay??

[ozbob]

Is the power system problem confirmed or just heresay??

It is bit more than just heresay.  Could be embarrassing during the first morning peak if the trains stop ...

There is the evidence from the Ipswich / Rosewood line that 33KV is really needed.

[tazzer9]

The power issues in QLD and those in NSW and Victoria are different.  The southern states railway power supply issues mainly stem from the use of 1500V DC power.
Electric freight trains in particular needed such large amount of power and the associated grid and substations couldn't handle it.  Just one 8-car A set needs nearly 2.5 KA of electricity. (and its DC, so it literally flows through the wires)  The huge currents means there are very large electrical losses and equipment needs to be designed for these massive currents. 

Our power issues seem to stem from equipment incompatibility.

There is the evidence from the Ipswich / Rosewood line that 33KV is really needed.

Wasn't the rosewood issue more to do with simply not having enough substations and the absolute length of the electrical wires.  I have read that the rosewood section used high quality copper (most electrical lines use aluminium because its lighter) just to extend the useful current slightly more.  The substation was was eventually built solved the issues, even if it had have been built from an 11KV line it still would have solved the probelms.

[ozbob]

Errr well aware about the different states etc.

There were restrictions on the number of trains west of Ipswich, and numbers of classes of trains west of Corinda till sorted.

Same sources that identified the signal issues on MBRL, have identified the power issues.  In fact the power issues are potentially a much more serious issue if not properly resolved.  I am sure the signalling will be sorted.

I think questions need to be asked and answered.

[tazzer9]

My biggest fear with the power issues is they think they have fixed it but something goes seriously wrong during a peak hour and fry a few trains. 
The signalling is bit of a problem because if they know there are issues with it now, who knows what problems it may have in the future when the do get it working.