Article: Mum's train 'trip from hell'

[somebody]

What part isn't exactly true?

I'm pretty sure the reason for Eagle Junction being removed from the route route yonks ago was because of proper visability for the guard/driver to check the train/platform was clear before releasing the spring loaded doors as they were located at both ends of the train. I wouldn't mind seeing the Gympie North services run express Bowen Hills to Caboolture express to Lansbrough express to Nambour all stops to Gympie.... Although its a similar leg as the Tilts.... 

I could live with that also.  When did any Sunshine Coast train serve Eagle Junction?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Managing to cope though the inner city due to the door positioning inside and outside, restricted seating and a increase of Caboolture passengers using it as an express to their station train due to the better seats and because it's sill beating it to Caboolture before the previous Caboolture express (The ICE leaves Central at 5.49 and arrives at Caboolture at 6.33 with a 6.34 departure which is about 5 mins after the 5.34 Cab exp and another 5..6... mins before the 5.46 Cab exp drops its passengers off). Since the timetable changes I've seen a couple people run at the door knowing they can push the spring loaded door open before it locks as not to miss the train.

I honestly can't remember the exact dates but I think they were introduced in early 99? so passengers could get off directly at EJ to catch the Airport train instead of getting off at BH and backtrack to EJ again for Airtrain services. It didn't last long before people on the Sunshine Coast kicked up a stink about why should they have to wait at an extra stop on their express train which now wasn't express and that they'll never use PT again and it was removed in 2000/2001 IIRC. Oh how times have changed

[Fares_Fair]

I honestly can't remember the exact dates but I think they were introduced in early 99? so passengers could get off directly at EJ to catch the Airport train instead of getting off at BH and backtrack to EJ again for Airtrain services. It didn't last long before people on the Sunshine Coast kicked up a stink about why should they have to wait at an extra stop on their express train which now wasn't express and that they'll never use PT again and it was removed in 2000/2001 IIRC. Oh how times have changed

Is this red bit really true HTG?
I can understand the current situation with the greatest reduction in express stations bypassed by 20 down to 9, (GYN services retain the 20 bypassed) but a 'revolt' over 1 station seems unlikely to me.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

 

So you are saying the the ICEs do not cope with running through Roma St-Bowen Hills, even though they do it on a daily basis?

I'm sure your dates are wrong as that would pre-date the Airtrain, but other than that I can believe what you are saying.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Simon, They might get the job done but you have the remember they weren't designed for it.

The start date might be wrong or it was in preparation with the start of airport services/timetable changes. I can't remember off the top of my head.

[SurfRail]

So you are saying the the ICEs do not cope with running through Roma St-Bowen Hills, even though they do it on a daily basis?

They do it, but it isn't especially good for them.  Keep in mind the basic parameter for their operation was exactly what the electric tilt does now.

[Fares_Fair]

wow, it's true HTG.
I started commuting by rail in February 2001 and was unaware of this situation.
Thank you.

PS Need to enrol some of those people to help me get duplication ...  

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Arnz]

Have to wonder how many of that group of people (that campaigned for the removal of EJ from the non-ICE services) back in 1999-2000 still commute today?  I would think very few.  

Holding a old 2001 timetable, there was only 4 peak services back then (PM departures from Central: 4:32pm, 5:13pm, 5:36pm (Gympie) and 6:06pm).  2 of them were ICEs, 1x 6-car EMU and a 1x 3-car IMU.

I didn't start using the trains more regularly (in general) until 2002 myself.  Before 2002 it was the occasional ride.

[somebody]

Simon, They might get the job done but you have the remember they weren't designed for it.

They do it, but it isn't especially good for them.  Keep in mind the basic parameter for their operation was exactly what the electric tilt does now.

I don't have any issue with that.

However, I have suggested that the ICEs shouldn't serve Elimbah-Beerwah and Moolalah-Wombye, instead meeting a shuttle at Caboolture to reduce the number of stops that these trains serve but there wasn't any interest in that idea.  You could also argue that the off peak trains could non stop Bowen Hills.

[Arnz]

I don't have any issue with that.

However, I have suggested that the ICEs shouldn't serve Elimbah-Beerwah and Moolalah-Wombye, instead meeting a shuttle at Caboolture to reduce the number of stops that these trains serve but there wasn't any interest in that idea.  You could also argue that the off peak trains could non stop Bowen Hills.

Wouldn't there be issues with paths for this one?  Unless if Elimbah-Beerwah and Mooloolah-Woombye commuters/passengers wants to wait at least 20-30 mins for a slot.

[HappyTrainGuy]

RAILBUS!     

[Fares_Fair]

NOT funny HTG !   kidding here

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

I don't have any issue with that.

However, I have suggested that the ICEs shouldn't serve Elimbah-Beerwah and Moolalah-Wombye, instead meeting a shuttle at Caboolture to reduce the number of stops that these trains serve but there wasn't any interest in that idea.  You could also argue that the off peak trains could non stop Bowen Hills.

Wouldn't there be issues with paths for this one?  Unless if Elimbah-Beerwah and Mooloolah-Woombye commuters/passengers wants to wait at least 20-30 mins for a slot.

I'd be surprised.  As far as Beerburrum, I'm expecting a 3 minute headway to be achievable.  Open to correction though.

[SurfRail]

However, I have suggested that the ICEs shouldn't serve Elimbah-Beerwah and Moolalah-Wombye, instead meeting a shuttle at Caboolture to reduce the number of stops that these trains serve but there wasn't any interest in that idea.  You could also argue that the off peak trains could non stop Bowen Hills.

So basically like the Central Coast K-sets or the Thirroul to Port Kembla all stations L-sets.  

Possibly, but the station spacing is still quite reasonable up there, not like the relatively close spacing in parts of the Illawarra or around southern Newcastle.  All stations to Caboolture wouldn't represent a huge time-saving, at least on the current alignment where you are at around 50kph for much of the journey anyway.  When the realignment and amplification to Nambour goes in, we would be dealing with a different kettle of fish - but by then you could also have CAMCOS and shuttles to Nambour anyway.

The ICEs are ultimately the wrong sort of train for this work for several reasons, not the least of which is their waning reliability.

[somebody]

The ICEs are ultimately the wrong sort of train for this work for several reasons, not the least of which is their waning reliability.

Ultimately, I'm sure they will go.  There aren't enough of them to justify their unique performance characteristics.  I don't think that time is here however.

However, using the performance characteristics to justify the shuttle, I find nothing short of ridiculous.

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

QR says sorry for inconvenience

QR says sorry for inconvenience

Bill Hoffman | 8th November 2011

QUEENSLAND Rail has apologised for the lack of toilets on a train from Brisbane to the Sunshine Coast which led to a traumatised three-year-old Doonan boy wetting his pants three times on the two-and-a-half hour journey.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk failed again, however, to address a number of questions about the service and if and when rail users would be guaranteed a toilet on every train.

"I thank the Sunshine Coast Daily for bringing this issue to my attention," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"Today, I have met with Queensland Rail CEO Paul Scurrah and discussed this matter.

"Paul Scurrah, CEO of Queensland Rail, offers his sincere apologies on behalf Queensland Rail to the mother and child."

On Friday Ms Palaszczuk claimed there were enough trains with toilets to fill every service on the North Coast line.

"However due to unplanned events, Queensland Rail may be required to replace these dedicated trains with the first available alternative train to ensure services operate to the timetable," she said.

The statement brought an immediate online barrage from rail users who claimed the provision of loos was a rare luxury.

"Well, I must always end up on a replacement train, not once have I ever been on a train to Brisbane and back that had a toilet on board. Isn't it illegal? I know every job site has to have a portaloo," Shark 13 of Maroochydore said.

Devil from Maroochydore said the lack of toilets was why her daughter does not go to Brisbane with her grandmother during school holidays.

"I can not remember a time that my mother or myself have caught a train from Nambour to Brisbane with a toilet and yes more people need to speak up or it will never change," she said.

Wallet72 from Pelican Waters accused Ms Palaszczuk of playing fast with the truth.

"Yes, almost every service has toilets on it, but almost half of the actual services have 'out of order' toilets."

One Queensland Rail customer who was on the train on which three-year-old Jarrah Lumley had travelled with his mum Layla Treffery said he had been in great discomfort.

"A lady even offered his mother a nappy but it made him more distraught and he was crying that 'he was a big boy'."

"I am doing medical treatment in Brisbane, a two-hour train trip without a toilet was very uncomfortable and I have since had to go on the tilt train at a lot of expense so I could use a bathroom.

"In five trips from Brisbane to Nambour there has not been a toilet once."

Despite the response Queensland Rail continued to claim its service was up to scratch.

"Queensland Rail receives only a small number of complaints each month about the provision of toilets on our Sunshine Coast services," a spokesman said.

"There are two toilets on most Sunshine Coast services, with one in each half of the train."

[#Metro]

I think the Sunshine Coast line is really really in the the running for WORST TRAIN SERVICE IN AUSTRALIA

- congestion
- no loos
- plagued by delays
- almost half of all trains are actually buses
- takes forever

and so on and so on

[somebody]

I think the Sunshine Coast line is really really in the the running for WORST TRAIN SERVICE IN AUSTRALIA

- congestion
- no loos
- plagued by delays
- almost half of all trains are actually buses
- takes forever

and so on and so on

I think that dishonour goes to the Southern Highlands line in Sydney.  Which is double track the whole way.

Fastest trip from Mittagong is 80km/h average speed, with 3 intermediate stops over 131km.  If you want to travel in peak hour from Bargo (102.87km), you must leave on the 6:33am to change at Campbelltown and arrive at Central at 8:11am - 63km/h.  Miss this train and you won't reach Central until 9:22am.

Compare that to Nambour (104.8km), which allows a 6:40am departure for 8:28am arrival - 58km/h.

I guess Nambour is slower, but it is also more frequent, and has better bus connections.

[#Metro]

Does it have a loo?

[somebody]

Does it have a loo?

Apparently so: http://cityrail.info/about/fleet/endeavour

[Stillwater]

QR staff's original advice to the mother of the child in question was that the boy had no choice but to 'do it in his pants'.  Would QR have advised an adult 'caught short' in similar circumstances to deficate/urinate in their underwear?  Must SC passengers now take a towel with them as a precaution to cover their embarrassment as they foul the train seat?

[somebody]

South Coast line is significantly slower than Nambour.  Fastest trip I can find is 1h51min from Albion Park (103.3km) - 55.8km/h
Main North to Wyong (101km) has a fastest (I think) trip of 1h38min - 61.8km/h
Blue Mountains to Wentworth Falls (102.6km) has a fastest trip of 1h54min - 54km/h

[Fares_Fair]

South Coast line is significantly slower than Nambour.  Fastest trip I can find is 1h51min from Albion Park (103.3km) - 55.8km/h
Main North to Wyong (101km) has a fastest (I think) trip of 1h38min - 61.8km/h
Blue Mountains to Wentworth Falls (102.6km) has a fastest trip of 1h54min - 54km/h

Speed is not the only criteria.

Are 44% of their trains buses too ?
Does their single track (or perhaps they have dual already) serve a resident population of 330,000 with an extra 87,000 to be added within 10 years ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

EDIT: PS there were no toilets on the 5:04pm city to Nambour service home last night.
To be fair, IMHO most times we do have facilities.

[colinw]

The only single track in the NSW areas being discussed is on the South Coast line: south of Unanderra to Kiama (electrified) and Bomaderry (diesel railcars), plus a single track tunnel at Coalcliff which is a major constraint on the line.  And the trains have toilets, and are far more comfortable than an EMU. That really is the worst thing about the Nambour service - use of suburban sets suited to short hauls for what should be a separate tier of intercity service akin to V/Line. It is just plain ridiculous that we think we can run bog standard suburban trains over 100 km - just shouldn't happen.

Suburban sets DO run on the NSW South Coast line as well, but are restricted to the hourly Thirroul <-> Port Kembla run, which is really a minimal Wollongong suburban service.

The QR NCL has far worse service in terms of population served, and less double track for the distance covered.

[#Metro]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/07/us-dutch-urinal-bags-idUSTRE7964I720111007   

[HappyTrainGuy]

QR staff's original advice to the mother of the child in question was that the boy had no choice but to 'do it in his pants'.  Would QR have advised an adult 'caught short' in similar circumstances to deficate/urinate in their underwear?  Must SC passengers now take a towel with them as a precaution to cover their embarrassment as they foul the train seat?

I'm guessing she pressed the emergency intercom button in that case then....

Gotta love the Government cutting costs when it comes to buying up rollingstock. Apparently the design cost for 160/260s were cheaper than the 100/200s which also allowed them to buy all the parts in one massive bulk order for both trains. Cheapskates 

And something similar like that will and should never happen here. The only place thats sort of private would be the driving cabs.

[#Metro]

So how do the train drivers on these runs manage to relieve themselves? What about them?

What about ZERO harm??? Doesn't this apply in this case?

[Fares_Fair]

So how do the train drivers on these runs manage to relieve themselves? What about them?

What about ZERO harm??? Doesn't this apply in this case?

That is a valid point TT,
It is a potential health hazard for other commuters as well.

Most people I would think can 'hold on' (bad metaphor, I know) if they know it is going to be a long trip and use appropriate facilities beforehand.
Drivers are probably in that category.

The primary, and very important exceptions to this being young children and the elderly and/or those with medical conditions.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

The only single track in the NSW areas being discussed is on the South Coast line: south of Unanderra to Kiama (electrified) and Bomaderry (diesel railcars), plus a single track tunnel at Coalcliff which is a major constraint on the line.  And the trains have toilets, and are far more comfortable than an EMU. That really is the worst thing about the Nambour service - use of suburban sets suited to short hauls for what should be a separate tier of intercity service akin to V/Line. It is just plain ridiculous that we think we can run bog standard suburban trains over 100 km - just shouldn't happen.

Suburban sets DO run on the NSW South Coast line as well, but are restricted to the hourly Thirroul <-> Port Kembla run, which is really a minimal Wollongong suburban service.

The QR NCL has far worse service in terms of population served, and less double track for the distance covered.

Re: Rolling stock.  Aren't the OSCARs going to fully replace the V Sets imminently?  While they have toilets, they aren't really any more comfortable than the M sets from what I understand.

South Coast line is significantly slower than Nambour.  Fastest trip I can find is 1h51min from Albion Park (103.3km) - 55.8km/h
Main North to Wyong (101km) has a fastest (I think) trip of 1h38min - 61.8km/h
Blue Mountains to Wentworth Falls (102.6km) has a fastest trip of 1h54min - 54km/h

Speed is not the only criteria.

Are 44% of their trains buses too ?
Does their single track (or perhaps they have dual already) serve a resident population of 330,000 with an extra 87,000 to be added within 10 years ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

EDIT: PS there were no toilets on the 5:04pm city to Nambour service home last night.
To be fair, IMHO most times we do have facilities.

No, but there is a daily bus on the Southern Highlands.

Newcastle & Central Coast line serves regions of 288k & 297k respectively, or 589k combined.

I could look up the other regions, but I don't have an interest.

Should be toilets virtually without exception.  As SurfRail says, it wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else in the country.

[colinw]

Re: Rolling stock.  Aren't the OSCARs going to fully replace the V Sets imminently?  While they have toilets, they aren't really any more comfortable than the M sets from what I understand.

I believe that is the case.  My recent trip to Wollongong included a run from North Wollongong to Central on an OSCAR, and I really cannot complain about the level of comfort. It was at least as good as a 100 series IMU, but not quite as good as a V-set or ICE (which are the two most comfortable trains I've been on in Australia, in my opinion).

Should be toilets virtually without exception.  As SurfRail says, it wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else in the country.

Completely agreed.  About 50km / 1 hour should be the limit for trains without a toilet.  My daughter even became uncomfortable on the Belgrave line in Melbourne, which takes about 1:20.

[Fares_Fair]

Completely agreed.  About 50km / 1 hour should be the limit for trains without a toilet.  My daughter even became uncomfortable on the Belgrave line in Melbourne, which takes about 1:20.

That seems a very reasonable suggestion, Simon,

Is there a standard for this within QR?
Is it covered under thier 'cutomer charter' under comfort?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[#Metro]

How the hell does QR win a customer service award when their own customers are peeing their pants?
Makes a mockery of the 'your comfort' posters you see in trains...

[Arnz]

Meanwhile.. on a related note.. whilst I've seen a 6-car SMU260 heading down to the Gold Coast this morning.. a 6-car SMU220 was also headed towards the Airport arriving from South Bank, 5 mins or so late.

The 7:53am Caboolture-Nambour morning counter-peak shuttle service however got SMU260-ed (This service is usually scheduled as a ICE)

[somebody]

Completely agreed.  About 50km / 1 hour should be the limit for trains without a toilet.  My daughter even became uncomfortable on the Belgrave line in Melbourne, which takes about 1:20.

That seems a very reasonable suggestion, Simon,

Is there a standard for this within QR?
Is it covered under thier 'cutomer charter' under comfort?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Unfortunately I can't take the credit.  It was colinw.

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

No guarantee of toilets on trains

No guarantee of toilets on trains

Bill Hoffman | 9th November 2011

QUEENSLAND Rail may be sorry that a three-year-old boy had to wet his pants three times on a two-and-a-half-hour train journey from Brisbane to Eumundi because there was no toilet, but it will not admit to any problems with the service.

It says its intention is to have a toilet on every train servicing the North Coast line, but will not give a guarantee that that will occur.

A spokesman for QR said yesterday that it carried 5000 customers on the Sunshine Coast line each week but had only received 10 complaints this year about toilet facilities.

"Queensland Rail has enough toileted trains to service the North Coast line and every endeavour is made to put these services on due to the distances travelled on the Sunshine Coast," he said.

"However, due to disruptions and unscheduled maintenance, Queensland Rail is forced at times to replace these trains with the first available rollingstock to ensure services operate to the timetable."

QR can not provide details of the number of times toileted trains had to be replaced by those like the one endured last Thursday by Layla Treffery, her son Jarrah Lumley and other passengers.

The spokesman said such information could take months to compile.

Commuter lobby group Rail Back on Track has called for a five-minute toilet stop at Nambour for all northbound trains without toilets and for the government to commit to providing toilets for every service that extends past Caboolture.

Robert Dow, of Rail Back On Track, said the Inter City Express to Gympie North had toilets in every carriage but the service was unreliable because the train was not designed for the purpose for which it was being used.

He said when QR swung a train in to replace it at short notice it was invariably one without toilets.

"The Inter Urban Multiple Unit trains to Nambour have one toilet per three carriages," Mr Dow said.

"People unfamiliar with the train don't realise that they have to walk through to find it."

Kind of bizarre that we have to request a 'wee break' for when a non-toilet equipped train is heading north on the GympieLander?   The neglect of so many aspects of our public transport is clearly manifest ...  have a look at other jurisdictions.  Why is it that Queensland has so many things just plainly wrong ....  ?

[#Metro]

A spokesman for QR said yesterday that it carried 5000 customers on the Sunshine Coast line each week but had only received 10 complaints this year about toilet facilities.

Ugh!

Customer service anyone? Since when is it OK for your customers to be left peeing their pants?

A toilet stop @ Nambour is a good idea when things like this happen.

[Stillwater]

And the government has the gall and audacity to state that it operates a 'world class' or 'first class' public transport service.

[ozbob]

A spokesman for QR said yesterday that it carried 5000 customers on the Sunshine Coast line each week but had only received 10 complaints this year about toilet facilities.

So what ... many have raised the issues for years, they give up.  Some pax also have had to abandon the rail (sometimes bus) services because of the uncertainty with toilet arrangements.

[#Metro]

A spokesman for QR said yesterday that it carried 5000 customers on the Sunshine Coast line each week but had only received 10 complaints this year about toilet facilities.

Read the above carefully.
Is it possible to complain about a facility that doesn't exist. Presumably the complaints are about facilities that DO exist.


All passengers are reminded that to please cross your legs very firmly...

[Stillwater]

Is the definition of a quality railway system one that reacts only when people complain vehemently about something rather than anticipating customer needs and providing it ahead of vociferous indignation being expressed?  It is a strange beast, this Queensland Rail.