Customers vs passengers

[ozbob]

Just noted these two tweets ...

1.

Twitter

TransLinkSEQ TransLink SEQ
Carindale customers can now access eight new early morning services on route 222 from Oct 31 - twurl.nl/uunp5w
32 minutes ago

====================

2.

Twitter

TransLinkSEQ TransLink SEQ
Sunshine Coast passengers can now catch the new 623 Coolum to Nambour trial service from today twurl.nl/4cvxqs
9 minutes ago

===================

Ha!  A Freudian slip?

[Stillwater]

The customer is always right; passengers just get in the way of the stopping and starting of trains and buses.

[ozbob]

The public perception is interesting. Had a lot of feedback supporting the fact they perceive themselves as passengers, never one thinking of themselves as a 'customer'.  Patients visit Doctors, clients visit Lawyers. Customers buy things at shops at the base level seems to be the feeling.  I know in a broad sense customers buy goods and/or services, but many don't quite see it that way.

The official TransLink and Queensland Rail position is that we are 'customers'.  That little point alone disconnects many ... believe it or not!  Nice little slip by TransLink.

[Fares_Fair]

That is the common theme I have found with Sunshine Coast commuters, the 'customers' tag is a bit of a joke really.
It is semantics, yes.
This however, isn't an important example of it IMHO.
Some of us have felt like cattle, or mushrooms in the past.  

We do not consider the term 'passengers' to be inferior in any way, merely a reflection of who/what we are.
Some may see it as a tired old term.
It's a classic case of change for changes sake.

And as SW points out, the 'customer' was always right under customary obligations of the business owner - this in order to maintain a good custom with their purchasers.

Under TRANSLink, this is NOT the case.
The 'customer' is usually wrong unless they can prove otherwise, e.g. the go card reader may malfunction with the user unaware of this and the touch-on is not recorded.
QR staff say that even they do not know if the readers are down or malfunctioning unless a 'customer' tells them.
It is up to the 'customer' to telephone TRANSLink at their own cost just to rectify a mistake that may not be of their own making.
There are plenty of anecdotes here on RBoT that support this.

It seems to be a down side to technology.

This is also made even more funny by the ad hoc announcement at Central,  "Thank for making city train your preferred rail network for travel" or words to that effect.
Like we have a choice for train travel?
Still, it gives most 'passengers' a good laugh.
Just what we need for the long journey home.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

On balance, I perceive myself as a customer, because I buy a service from Translink and that organisation and I enter into a contractural arrangement -- I sit and they undertake to deliver me in safety and reasonable comfortable to where I want to go in the time specified in the timetable.  As a passenger, I am a flea on the dog, subject to the whims of an erratic beast.

[Fares_Fair]

I note your point SW,

Ah yes, the freudian slip ozbob referred to. 

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[colinw]

So, does QueenslandRail run PASSENGER trains or CUSTOMER trains in South East Queensland?

[Fares_Fair]

So, does QueenslandRail run PASSENGER trains or CUSTOMER trains in South East Queensland?

For the Sunshine Coast, they are customer occupied trains ... or COT cases for short.  
Just joking here.

I actually have an enormous respect for the huge task that Queesnland Rail achieve every day on the network.
I know I can make their job easier if the Beerburrum to Landsborough and Landsborough to Nambour rail duplication was to go ahead.
Also the money to be saved by government on road pavements, safety, freight transferance etc.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Arnz]

Not to mention the usage fees to made from freight operators (PN and QRNational) on the NCL in general, as well as part of the revenue from their part ownership of QRNational.

[Fares_Fair]

Not to mention the usage fees to made from freight operators (PN and QRNational) on the NCL in general, as well as part of the revenue from their part ownership of QRNational.

Your'e right Arnz, that too.
That is what I just cannot understand, there is money to be made in doing it - and still they do nothing more than make distant unfunded promises.
Does this current governemnt really hate servicing the Sunshine Coast in public transport that much that they would deny themselves income in spite of the massive state debt?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

Back to the OP.  There is a latent bias against the Sunny Coast.  To twit your honour, said tweets.

We have COTs everywhere on the network, on the Sunny Coast they are POTs? (Often replaced by POBs ....   )

A rhetorical question?

Where is the biggest bang for buck?   Ferny Grove to neatly run COTs every 30 minutes, or hourly on Sunday mornings?  or continue the duplication to Landsborough?

You know, the other day I was walking down George St and I kept smelling roast pork ....

[Stillwater]

No doubt, the roast pork fumes were generated by the heat and friction of the flapping of the wings of the flying pigs!  They roost in the office towers of George Street.  

Don't forget also that there could be some money from the federal government available for the Sunny Coast Line by virtue of its designation as part of the National Transport Network.  This would be in addition to any freight fees from the private sector.

Something is going to have to give pretty soon, because all those temporary platforms are not going to last out until 2031.

[colinw]

flying pigs

If you could smell it, wouldn't that be frying pigs?

Or maybe it was an oven full of porky pies?

[ozbob]

The pork pie oven is always on these days ....

[Fares_Fair]

The pork pie oven is always on these days ....

except north of Beerburrum ....

[mufreight]

On balance, I perceive myself as a customer, because I buy a service from Translink and that organisation and I enter into a contractural arrangement -- I sit and they undertake to deliver me in safety and reasonable comfortable to where I want to go in the time specified in the timetable.  As a passenger, I am a flea on the dog, subject to the whims of an erratic beast.

Have to agree Stillwater.
Since we are paying for a ?service from Translink but we are passengers using Queensland Rail services.

[colinw]

The pork pie oven is always on these days ....

except north of Beerburrum ....

What you guys up on the Sunshine Coast need is a couple of nice marginal electorates.

That way the pork pie might find itself replaced by the pork barrel.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Not to mention the usage fees to made from freight operators (PN and QRNational) on the NCL in general, as well as part of the revenue from their part ownership of QRNational.

Your'e right Arnz, that too.
That is what I just cannot understand, there is money to be made in doing it - and still they do nothing more than make distant unfunded promises.
Does this current governemnt really hate servicing the Sunshine Coast in public transport that much that they would deny themselves income in spite of the massive state debt?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

With the track fees no doubt that they would just be funneling it right back into their track infrastructure program with taking care of 7000km of track after the QR/QRN split (6-7k for QR with about 1k made of BSA territory/~3k for QRN). At the time when QR was a killing machine it was milking Pacific National for millions when they retained full ownership of Acacia Ridge after PN jazzed the place up when they thought they owned it (Acacia Ridge made up a very large chunck of PN revenue). Without Acacia Ridge PN couldn't link up with PNQ and be a national rail freight provider - different gauge - so they were held to ransom and still are. Around the same time QR was expanding nationally buying up rail companies, truck and freight companies (One point they were going after Linfox for their road haulage network), track/rollingstock infrastructure, freight contracts all in other states left, right and centre which is why I hate that the Government sold of such a massive asset for next to nothing. If they were going to sell the freight division it should have been alot higher and then pump the funds right back into local rail projects rather than use it for a credit rating boost.

[Fares_Fair]

Just noted these two tweets ...

1.

Twitter

TransLinkSEQ TransLink SEQ
Carindale customers can now access eight new early morning services on route 222 from Oct 31 - twurl.nl/uunp5w
32 minutes ago

====================

2.

Twitter

TransLinkSEQ TransLink SEQ
Sunshine Coast passengers can now catch the new 623 Coolum to Nambour trial service from today twurl.nl/4cvxqs
9 minutes ago

===================

Ha!  A Freudian slip?

Carindale gets 8 new services which is great and assumedly well deserved and used, Sunshine Coast gets 1 new service and that only as a trial.
This even with the Sunshine Coast Regional Council transport levy of $20 per rateable property.
sigh ...

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

FF, I think you are confusing porkey pies and the gravy train.  It is the gravy train that doesn't make it north of Beerburrum.  A government committee sat in conference to devise a special gravy train for north of Beerburrum and came up with the brown stain bus.  Come to think of it, those Nambour buses would make good pie carts!

[SurfRail]

Come to think of it, those Nambour buses would make good pie carts!

That's the universal name bus enthusiasts give them.

[Fares_Fair]

Just noted these two tweets ...

1.

Twitter

TransLinkSEQ TransLink SEQ
Carindale customers can now access eight new early morning services on route 222 from Oct 31 - twurl.nl/uunp5w
32 minutes ago

====================

2.

Twitter

TransLinkSEQ TransLink SEQ
Sunshine Coast passengers can now catch the new 623 Coolum to Nambour trial service from today twurl.nl/4cvxqs
9 minutes ago

===================

Ha!  A Freudian slip?

Carindale gets 8 new services which is great and assumedly well deserved and used, Sunshine Coast gets 1 new service and that only as a trial.
This even with the Sunshine Coast Regional Council transport levy of $20 per rateable property.
sigh ...

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

It's not like we are the 3rd largest growth area in Queensland ...
Hang on a minute, we are !

Sorry ozbob, back to OP.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

This OP was a little TIC, but it has shown the complexity of COTs, POTs, POBs and gravy.  Mixed in with roast pork, pork pies and pork barrels ...

I have just returned from Springfield and had a look at the station site at Springfield Central, now minus the media tent etc.  I was unable to detect any pork aroma, only jacaranda blossom.

There are three major things from the rail perspective that all parties and candidates are going to have to tackle from here IMHO.

1.  The Sunshine Coast Line upgrade,

2.   Cross River Rail,

3.   Around the clock train frequency improvements.

Addressing these matters leads to flow ons onto the further infrastructure needed to support, new generation rolling stock, signalling improvements, stabling, maintenance and so forth.

[colinw]

Your list of 3 items neatly distills the whole problem with rail in SEQ.

As for the tongue in cheek discussion about various pork flavoured products, it is inevitable give that politics and railways are inextricably linked in Australia, ever since our invention of the Government Owned Railway in about 1855 following the failure of private railway schemes in Sydney & Melbourne.

[HappyTrainGuy]

NGR is supposed to be associated with maintainence and stabling facilites hence why its more complicated than previous orders.

[colinw]

What does the reduction in the NGR order size mean?

1. EMUs will be around for a fair bit longer (they are holding up relatively well)?
2. Government knows that not all the new lines on the 2031 map will actually happen?
3. All of the above?

cheers,
Colin

[ozbob]

Hey, check this out  a ........ TUZ!  This demonstrates the sheer heavy lift capability  of rail very well  ...  

====================

Twitter

metrotrains Metro Trains
Tomorrow, trains to take you to the Cup every four minutes from 9am-12.30, http://t.co/c7SfYeo0 #MetroTrains
29 minutes ago

[ozbob]

What does the reduction in the NGR order size mean?

1. EMUs will be around for a fair bit longer (they are holding up relatively well)?
2. Government knows that not all the new lines on the 2031 map will actually happen?
3. All of the above?

cheers,
Colin

Not concerned about the ' reduction ' Colin. It was always UP to 200, and even if 150 still a lot more than now.  Enough to support increased out of peak frequency and still allow for proper maintenance schedules and backup.

Maybe we might see EMUs kept a little longer, why not if the maintenance can be maintained but use them only on short lines.  Melbourne seems to do this, use different rolling stock types for different lines that better suit.  The newer trains for the longer runs.  I expect we might see a higher comfort level of IMU train as well.

[O_128]

What does the reduction in the NGR order size mean?

1. EMUs will be around for a fair bit longer (they are holding up relatively well)?
2. Government knows that not all the new lines on the 2031 map will actually happen?
3. All of the above?

cheers,
Colin

The EMUs are fine and my personal favourite train. I think we would be lucky to see the flagstone, ripley extension, trouts road and pending the commonwealth games GC line extension by 2031, I have no hope for any of the others.

[SurfRail]

Melbourne seems to do this, use different rolling stock types for different lines that better suit.  The newer trains for the longer runs.  I expect we might see a higher comfort level of IMU train as well.

Mind you in their case rollingstock allocation is governed by:

1.   More maintenance centres than we have in Brisbane, each of which is generally not set up to handle all fleet types; and

2.   The previous division in the network between Bayside and Hillside Trains.  I am led to understand this led to different rollingstock orders (and in particular 2 separate Comeng upgrades by EDi and Alstom), which led to different positioning of the DOO and other safeworking equipment such that you could not reliably use all trains on all lines.  Hence you only really have Xtraps on the former Hillside / Connex lines and their Comengs will be cascaded to the Bayside / M>Train lines, now that the Comengs can all talk to each other again.

Up here, the issue is more about separating long distance rollingstock (IMUs, future Tilting MUs) reliably away from suburban rollingstock, which presents no problem for Sydney with its separate V-set and H-set maintenance centres.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Melbourne has its own problems with regards to what rollingstock operates where whereas we don't. Our EMUs/Rollingstock can operate on all lines at any given time. Its just Nambour and Gold Coast lines where the posted speeds are over 100 where they struggle due to their short gearing/traction motors toping them out at just over 100kph but that's easily fixed by eating into the turnaround time or terminating them at Bowen Hills/Roma Street and providing a replacment set for the next leg.

[Arnz]

FF, I think you are confusing porkey pies and the gravy train.  It is the gravy train that doesn't make it north of Beerburrum.  A government committee sat in conference to devise a special gravy train for north of Beerburrum and came up with the brown stain bus.  Come to think of it, those Nambour buses would make good pie carts!

If you're talking railbus, they're maroon and yellow and operated by the KBL folks. 

If you're talking Sunbus, they only have 10 of those pie-cart things left.  4 of the 2002 built low-floor versions at Marcoola, and the older ones (built in the 90s) based at Caloundra.

http://www.busaustralia.com/fleetlists/qld.php?search=SUN&depotreq=Caloundra
http://www.busaustralia.com/fleetlists/qld.php?search=SUN&depotreq=Marcoola

[SurfRail]

Melbourne has its own problems with regards to what rollingstock operates where whereas we don't. Our EMUs/Rollingstock can operate on all lines at any given time. Its just Nambour and Gold Coast lines where the posted speeds are over 100 where they struggle due to their short gearing/traction motors toping them out at just over 100kph but that's easily fixed by eating into the turnaround time or terminating them at Bowen Hills/Roma Street and providing a replacment set for the next leg.

And the lack of toilets and inappropriately designed seating.  Small matters obviously, but we are the only ones (as usual) who can't get it right.  You would never be catching a V-set to Bankstown or a Tangara to Newcastle.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Well, at least we got our breaking systems, electric overheads, security and air conditioning sorted out

[BrizCommuter]

Well, at least we got our breaking systems, electric overheads, security and air conditioning sorted out

Not too sure about number 2 and 4 in that statement, or were you being sarcastic?

[O_128]

Well, at least we got our breaking systems, electric overheads, security and air conditioning sorted out

Hmm but if we got these right you think the seats would be easy.

[SurfRail]

Well, at least we got our breaking systems, electric overheads, security and air conditioning sorted out

Unless you are unlucky enough to be stuck on a 120 or 220 series set.  Nice as they are, the AC on those things couldn't keep a train cold in winter - makes my forehead  .  Tinting wouldn't go astray!

[Fares_Fair]

So, does QueenslandRail run PASSENGER trains or CUSTOMER trains in South East Queensland?

For the Sunshine Coast, they are customer occupied trains ... or COT cases for short.  
Just joking here.

I actually have an enormous respect for the huge task that Queesnland Rail achieve every day on the network.
I know I can make their job easier if the Beerburrum to Landsborough and Landsborough to Nambour rail duplication was to go ahead.
Also the money to be saved by government on road pavements, safety, freight transferance etc.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

lol, Abductees?  Captives?  Pay the ransom money via go-card and you are set free.

[STB]

I'm surprised that I haven't posted in this thread.  Personally I hate the term 'customers' when it's applied to public transport, as 'customer' to me implies that you are buying goods, 'passenger' however implies that you are using a form of transport.

I did ask my Marketing Lecturer at uni about this last year and he said that the terms can be interchangeable, but I think it comes across a quality marker if you call someone a 'customer' than a 'passenger', implying that you are providing a quality service that the 'customer' pays for, as oppose to simply using the train as a 'passenger' to be transported from point A to point B.