Doing more with less

[colinw]

In response to a post by Simon here

Just as in NSW the pollies seem to cower before Treasury bureaucrats, in QLD the pollies cower before Rail workers who say that it is too hard to have reasonable rail services without more infrastructure than what is presently there, which is never enough.

<Dons flameproof suit>

No argument from me Simon.

I know I've been banging on about Cercanias Madrid ("Madrid local trains") since my recent trip to Spain, but it is instructive to look at their system and what they achieve with their infrastructure.

Cercanias Madrid is a conventional suburban electric rail system, under 3000V DC electrification. Its broad gauge and somewhat reminds me of Melbourne.  It is a radial network with one city centre loop and a couple of little used cross-links, with a "star" topography reminiscent of the Melbourne & Brisbane systems. Like Brisbane & Melbourne, all routes lead to the city centre, and all trains except line C5 traverse a core route once they get there.

The network is "mixed traffic" with freight trains & long distance passenger trains sharing the tracks with suburban services.  Most lines are double track, with some quad. Some of the outer lines are single, and quite infrequent Rosewood level services, but most are quite decent.  There's some grade separation at junctions, but also quite a few flat junctions. Freight trains run to quite close into the city - the closest yard & junction of a freight only line I saw was only a few km out of Atocha (which is the Madrid equivalent of Roma St or Flinders St).

Here's the map: Grayed out lines are proposed or under construction.
]

The Line I used was line C2/C7. The line is a mix of double and quad track, but the pax service mainly uses the one set of double track and the final run into Atocha is on double line.  Here's the service on a weekday from Torrejon de Ardoz (where I stayed) to Madrid Atocha.  Basically the same length journey as Kuraby to Roma St.

The service is actually 3 overlaid lines (C2, C8B and C7) - C7 is the high frequency ("UrbanLink") suburban service.  C8B and C2 are less frequent longer distance services.  Think of C7 as Loganlea (about 32km) and C8B/C2 as about Helensvale (65 km) for approximate distances.

Now, read the timetable I have reproduced below. Looks a bit better than Brisbane, doesn't it?  Even 'though all pax services only use TWO tracks into Madrid, and there's freight and long distance stuff running as well.  Amount of quad across the total route is about the same as Roma St to Darra or maybe a little more, but 2 of the 4 tracks don't have platforms at most stations.

With a service this good I didn't actually bother looking at a timetable after the first time I went there, except to work out when the last train home in the evening was.

(Weekday inbound timetable - Torrejon de Ardoz to Madrid Atocha - approximately 22km).

Depart   Arrive   Line   Travel Time
05.20    05.47    C2    0.27    
05.33    05.59    C8B   0.26    
05.49    06.16    C2    0.27    
06.03    06.31    C8B   0.28    
06.12    06.39    C7    0.27    
06.18    06.45    C2    0.27    
06.24    06.51    C2    0.27    
06.30    06.59    C8B    0.29    
06.36    07.03    C2    0.27    
06.42    07.10    C7    0.28    
06.48    07.15    C2    0.27    
06.54    07.22    C7    0.28    
07.00    07.29    C8B    0.29    
07.06    07.33    C2    0.27    
07.12    07.39    C7    0.27    
07.18    07.45    C2    0.27    
07.24    07.51    C7    0.27    
07.30    07.58    C8B    0.28    
07.36    08.03    C2    0.27    
07.42    08.10    C7    0.28    
07.48    08.15    C2    0.27    
07.54    08.22    C7    0.28    
08.00    08.27    C2    0.27    
08.05    08.32    C2    0.27    
08.11    08.38    C7    0.27    
08.18    08.45    C2    0.27    
08.24    08.51    C7    0.27    
08.30    08.58    C8B    0.28    
08.36    09.03    C2    0.27    
08.42    09.10    C7    0.28    
08.48    09.15    C2    0.27    
08.54    09.22    C7    0.28    
09.00    09.27    C2    0.27    
09.06    09.33    C2    0.27    
09.12    09.39    C7    0.27    
09.18    09.45    C2    0.27    
09.24    09.51    C7    0.27    
09.32    10.00    C8B    0.28    
09.40    10.08    C7    0.28    
09.48    10.15    C2    0.27    
09.54    10.22    C7    0.28    
10.03    10.31    C2    0.28    
10.12    10.39    C7    0.27    
10.24    10.51    C2    0.27    
10.33    10.59    C8B    0.26    
10.42    11.09    C7    0.27    
10.54    11.21    C2    0.27    
11.03    11.30    C2    0.27    
11.13    11.40    C7    0.27    
11.25    11.52    C2    0.27    
11.33    11.59    C8B    0.26    
11.43    12.10    C7    0.27    
11.55    12.22    C2    0.27    
12.04    12.31    C2    0.27    
12.12    12.39    C7    0.27    
12.25    12.52    C2    0.27    
12.33    12.59    C8B    0.26    
12.43    13.10    C7    0.27    
12.54    13.21    C2    0.27    
13.03    13.31    C2    0.28    
13.13    13.40    C7    0.27    
13.24    13.51    C2    0.27    
13.34    14.00    C8B    0.26    
13.42    14.09    C7    0.27    
13.48    14.16    C2    0.28    
13.56    14.23    C7    0.27    
14.04    14.30    C8B    0.26    
14.11    14.38    C7    0.27    
14.18    14.46    C2    0.28    
14.26    14.53    C7    0.27    
14.33    14.59    C8B    0.26    
14.41    15.08    C7    0.27    
14.48    15.16    C2    0.28    
14.56    15.23    C7    0.27    
15.03    15.29    C8B    0.26    
15.11    15.38    C7    0.27    
15.18    15.46    C2    0.28    
15.26    15.53    C7    0.27    
15.33    15.59    C8B    0.26    
15.41    16.08    C7    0.27    
15.48    16.15    C2    0.27    
15.56    16.23    C2    0.27    
16.03    16.30    C2    0.27    
16.11    16.38    C7    0.27    
16.18    16.45    C2    0.27    
16.26    16.53    C2    0.27    
16.33    16.59    C8B    0.26    
16.41    17.08    C7    0.27    
16.56    17.23    C2    0.27    
17.03    17.30    C2    0.27    
17.11    17.38    C7    0.27    
17.18    17.45    C2    0.27    
17.26    17.53    C2    0.27    
17.33    17.59    C8B    0.26    
17.41    18.08    C7    0.27    
17.48    18.15    C2    0.27    
17.56    18.23    C2    0.27    
18.03    18.29    C8B    0.26    
18.11    18.38    C7    0.27    
18.18    18.45    C2    0.27    
18.26    18.53    C7    0.27    
18.33    18.59    C8B    0.26    
18.41    19.08    C7    0.27    
18.48    19.15    C2    0.27    
18.56    19.23    C7    0.27    
19.03    19.29    C8B   0.26    
19.11    19.38    C7    0.27    
19.18    19.45    C2    0.27    
19.26    19.53    C7    0.27    
19.33    19.59    C8B    0.26    
19.41    20.08    C7    0.27    
19.48    20.15    C2    0.27    
19.56    20.23    C7    0.27    
20.03    20.30    C2    0.27    
20.11    20.38    C7    0.27    
20.18    20.45    C2    0.27    
20.26    20.53    C2    0.27    
20.33    20.59    C8B    0.26    
20.41    21.08    C7    0.27    
20.49    21.16    C2    0.27    
20.55    21.22    C2    0.27    
21.03    21.31    C2    0.28    
21.12    21.39    C7    0.27    
21.24    21.51    C2    0.27    
21.35    22.01    C8B    0.26    
21.42    22.09    C7    0.27    
21.54    22.21    C2    0.27    
22.03    22.31    C2    0.28    
22.11    22.38    C7    0.27    
22.24    22.51    C2    0.27    
22.33    22.59    C8B    0.26    
22.41    23.08    C7    0.27    
22.56    23.23    C2    0.27    
23.03    23.30    C2    0.27    
23.14    23.42    C2    0.28    
23.36    00.04    C2    0.28

[colinw]

But there's more.

Look at the way all those lines bunch together at Atocha, and run through to Chamartin via only two routes in tunnel (one via Recoletos, the other via Sol). Only the yellow line (C5) manages to dodge those tunnels, by turning back after Atocha.

Well, that shared section is only FOUR tracks.  Two tracks each way - the original link from Atocha to Chamartin - run via Recoletos.  The other two tracks - only recently opened - run from Atocha to Chamartin via Sol.

I.e. it has exactly the same constraint as Roma St to Bowen Hills - two tracks available each way.

Here's the service they manage to put through in one direction: Atocha to Chamartin.  Hmm!!!

This is NOT a metro.  This is bog standard suburban rail, run by Siemens & CAF built EMUs that look much like a Melbourne Siemens set, and also a small number of double deckers that do the longer outer runs.

(Weekday timetable from Madrid Atocha to Madrid Chamartin - all these trains fit down only two tracks).

Depart   Arrive   Line   Travel Time
05.00    05.13    C4A    0.13    
05.15    05.28    C1    0.13    
05.24    05.37    C4B    0.13    
05.36    05.49    C4A    0.13    
05.48    06.01    C4B    0.13    
05.48    06.01    C2    0.13    
05.53    06.06    C4A    0.13    
05.56    06.09    C10    0.13    
06.00    06.13    C4A    0.13    
06.01    06.14    C8B    0.13    
06.04    06.17    C3    0.13    
06.06    06.19    C4B    0.13    
06.10    06.23    C7    0.13    
06.12    06.25    C4B    0.13    
06.15    06.28    C1    0.13    
06.18    06.31    C2    0.13    
06.18    06.31    C4A    0.13    
06.21    06.34    C3    0.13    
06.22    06.35    C2    0.13    
06.24    06.37    C4B    0.13    
06.26    06.39    C10    0.13    
06.31    06.44    C4A    0.13    
06.33    06.46    C8B    0.13    
06.35    06.48    C3    0.13    
06.36    06.49    C2    0.13    
06.38    06.51    C4B    0.13    
06.40    06.53    C7    0.13    
06.45    06.58    C4A    0.13    
06.45    06.58    C1    0.13    
06.47    07.00    C2    0.13    
06.48    07.01    C4B    0.13    
06.50    07.03    C10    0.13    
06.51    07.04    C3    0.13    
06.53    07.06    C2    0.13    
06.54    07.07    C4A    0.13    
07.00    07.13    C4B    0.13    
07.00    07.13    C8B    0.13    
07.04    07.17    C2    0.13    
07.06    07.19    C10    0.13    
07.06    07.19    C4A    0.13    
07.09    07.22    C3    0.13    
07.11    07.24    C7    0.13    
07.12    07.25    C4B    0.13    
07.15    07.28    C1    0.13    
07.17    07.30    C2    0.13    
07.20    07.33    C10    0.13    
07.20    07.33    C4A    0.13    
07.23    07.36    C3    0.13    
07.23    07.36    C7    0.13    
07.26    07.39    C10    0.13    
07.26    07.39    C4B    0.13    
07.31    07.44    C8B    0.13    
07.33    07.46    C3    0.13    
07.34    07.47    C2    0.13    
07.36    07.49    C4B    0.13    
07.37    07.50    C10    0.13    
07.40    07.53    C7    0.13    
07.42    07.55    C4A    0.13    
07.45    07.58    C1    0.13    
07.47    08.00    C2    0.13    
07.47    08.00    C4B    0.13    
07.50    08.03    C10    0.13    
07.50    08.03    C3    0.13    
07.53    08.06    C7    0.13    
07.54    08.07    C4A    0.13    
07.56    08.09    C10    0.13    
07.57    08.10    C3    0.13    
08.00    08.13    C4B    0.13    
08.00    08.13    C8B    0.13    
08.04    08.17    C2    0.13    
08.06    08.19    C10    0.13    
08.06    08.19    C4A    0.13    
08.09    08.22    C3    0.13    
08.11    08.24    C7    0.13    
08.12    08.25    C4B    0.13    
08.15    08.28    C1    0.13    
08.17    08.30    C2    0.13    
08.18    08.31    C4A    0.13    
08.20    08.33    C10    0.13    
08.21    08.34    C3    0.13    
08.23    08.36    C7    0.13    
08.24    08.37    C4B    0.13    
08.25    08.38    C10    0.13    
08.27    08.40    C3    0.13    
08.29    08.42    C2    0.13    
08.30    08.43    C4A    0.13    
08.33    08.46    C2    0.13    
08.36    08.49    C10    0.13    
08.36    08.49    C4B    0.13    
08.39    08.52    C3    0.13    
08.40    08.53    C7    0.13    
08.42    08.55    C4A    0.13    
08.45    08.58    C1    0.13    
08.47    09.00    C2    0.13    
08.48    09.01    C4B    0.13    
08.50    09.03    C10    0.13    
08.52    09.05    C7    0.13    
08.52    09.05    C3    0.13    
08.54    09.07    C4A    0.13    
08.56    09.09    C10    0.13    
09.00    09.13    C4B    0.13    
09.00    09.13    C8B    0.13    
09.03    09.16    C3    0.13    
09.06    09.19    C4A    0.13    
09.08    09.21    C10    0.13    
09.11    09.24    C7    0.13    
09.12    09.25    C4B    0.13    
09.15    09.28    C1    0.13    
09.17    09.30    C2    0.13    
09.18    09.31    C4A    0.13    
09.20    09.33    C10    0.13    
09.21    09.34    C3    0.13    
09.23    09.36    C7    0.13    
09.24    09.37    C4B    0.13    
09.26    09.39    C10    0.13    
09.29    09.42    C2    0.13    
09.30    09.43    C4A    0.13    
09.34    09.47    C2    0.13    
09.36    09.49    C4B    0.13    
09.38    09.51    C10    0.13    
09.40    09.53    C7    0.13    
09.41    09.54    C3    0.13    
09.44    09.57    C4A    0.13    
09.45    09.58    C1    0.13    
09.47    10.00    C2    0.13    
09.50    10.03    C10    0.13    
09.50    10.03    C4B    0.13    
09.52    10.05    C7    0.13    
09.57    10.10    C4A    0.13    
10.01    10.14    C8B    0.13    
10.03    10.16    C4B    0.13    
10.06    10.19    C10    0.13    
10.06    10.19    C3    0.13    
10.10    10.23    C7    0.13    
10.12    10.25    C4A    0.13    
10.15    10.28    C1    0.13    
10.17    10.30    C2    0.13    
10.18    10.31    C4B    0.13    
10.20    10.33    C10    0.13    
10.24    10.37    C7    0.13    
10.26    10.39    C4A    0.13    
10.32    10.45    C4A    0.13    
10.33    10.46    C2    0.13    
10.36    10.49    C3    0.13    
10.36    10.49    C10    0.13    
10.40    10.53    C7    0.13    
10.41    10.54    C4B    0.13    
10.45    10.58    C1    0.13    
10.50    11.03    C10    0.13    
10.50    11.03    C4A    0.13    
10.53    11.06    C2    0.13    
11.01    11.14    C8B    0.13    
11.01    11.14    C4B    0.13    
11.06    11.19    C10    0.13    
11.06    11.19    C3    0.13    
11.10    11.23    C7    0.13    
11.11    11.24    C4A    0.13    
11.16    11.29    C1    0.13    
11.20    11.33    C10    0.13    
11.21    11.34    C4B    0.13    
11.23    11.36    C2    0.13    
11.31    11.44    C4A    0.13    
11.32    11.45    C2    0.13    
11.35    11.48    C3    0.13    
11.36    11.49    C10    0.13    
11.41    11.54    C4B    0.13    
11.41    11.54    C7    0.13    
11.45    11.58    C1    0.13    
11.50    12.03    C10    0.13    
11.51    12.04    C4A    0.13    
11.54    12.07    C2    0.13    
12.01    12.14    C8B    0.13    
12.01    12.14    C4B    0.13    
12.06    12.19    C10    0.13    
12.06    12.19    C3    0.13    
12.11    12.24    C4A    0.13    
12.11    12.24    C7    0.13    
12.16    12.29    C1    0.13    
12.20    12.33    C10    0.13    
12.21    12.34    C4B    0.13    
12.24    12.37    C2    0.13    
12.31    12.44    C4A    0.13    
12.33    12.46    C2    0.13    
12.35    12.48    C3    0.13    
12.36    12.49    C10    0.13    
12.39    12.52    C4B    0.13    
12.40    12.53    C7    0.13    
12.46    12.59    C1    0.13    
12.50    13.03    C10    0.13    
12.51    13.04    C4A    0.13    
12.54    13.07    C2    0.13    
13.01    13.14    C8B    0.13    
13.01    13.14    C4B    0.13    
13.05    13.18    C3    0.13    
13.06    13.19    C10    0.13    
13.11    13.24    C4A    0.13    
13.11    13.24    C7    0.13    
13.16    13.29    C1    0.13    
13.20    13.33    C10    0.13    
13.20    13.33    C4B    0.13    
13.23    13.36    C2    0.13    
13.31    13.44    C4A    0.13    
13.33    13.46    C2    0.13    
13.35    13.48    C3    0.13    
13.36    13.49    C10    0.13    
13.41    13.54    C4B    0.13    
13.41    13.54    C7    0.13    
13.46    13.59    C1    0.13    
13.50    14.03    C10    0.13    
13.51    14.04    C4A    0.13    
13.53    14.06    C2    0.13    
13.57    14.10    C3    0.13    
14.00    14.13    C4B    0.13    
14.02    14.15    C8B    0.13    
14.06    14.19    C10    0.13    
14.11    14.24    C4A    0.13    
14.11    14.24    C7    0.13    
14.15    14.28    C1    0.13    
14.17    14.30    C3    0.13    
14.18    14.31    C2    0.13    
14.20    14.33    C10    0.13    
14.24    14.37    C7    0.13    
14.24    14.37    C4B    0.13    
14.32    14.45    C4A    0.13    
14.32    14.45    C8B    0.13    
14.35    14.48    C3    0.13    
14.36    14.49    C10    0.13    
14.39    14.52    C7    0.13    
14.41    14.54    C4B    0.13    
14.45    14.58    C1    0.13    
14.47    15.00    C4A    0.13    
14.48    15.01    C2    0.13    
14.50    15.03    C10    0.13    
14.50    15.03    C3    0.13    
14.54    15.07    C7    0.13    
14.56    15.09    C4B    0.13    
15.01    15.14    C8B    0.13    
15.03    15.16    C4A    0.13    
15.06    15.19    C3    0.13    
15.06    15.19    C10    0.13    
15.09    15.22    C7    0.13    
15.11    15.24    C4B    0.13    
15.15    15.28    C1    0.13    
15.17    15.30    C4A    0.13    
15.18    15.31    C2    0.13    
15.20    15.33    C10    0.13    
15.21    15.34    C3    0.13    
15.24    15.37    C4B    0.13    
15.24    15.37    C7    0.13    
15.31    15.44    C8B    0.13    
15.32    15.45    C4A    0.13    
15.36    15.49    C10    0.13    
15.39    15.52    C7    0.13    
15.41    15.54    C4B    0.13    
15.45    15.58    C1    0.13    
15.47    16.00    C3    0.13    
15.48    16.01    C2    0.13    
15.50    16.03    C10    0.13    
15.50    16.03    C4A    0.13    
15.54    16.07    C7    0.13    
16.01    16.14    C8B    0.13    
16.02    16.15    C4B    0.13    
16.06    16.19    C10    0.13    
16.09    16.22    C7    0.13    
16.11    16.24    C4A    0.13    
16.14    16.27    C3    0.13    
16.15    16.28    C1    0.13    
16.17    16.30    C2    0.13    
16.20    16.33    C10    0.13    
16.22    16.35    C4B    0.13    
16.25    16.38    C2    0.13    
16.31    16.44    C4A    0.13    
16.32    16.45    C2    0.13    
16.35    16.48    C3    0.13    
16.36    16.49    C10    0.13    
16.39    16.52    C7    0.13    
16.41    16.54    C4B    0.13    
16.45    16.58    C1    0.13    
16.47    17.00    C2    0.13    
16.50    17.03    C10    0.13    
16.51    17.04    C4A    0.13    
16.55    17.08    C3    0.13    
16.55    17.08    C2    0.13    
17.01    17.14    C8B    0.13    
17.01    17.14    C4B    0.13    
17.07    17.20    C10    0.13    
17.09    17.22    C7    0.13    
17.11    17.24    C4A    0.13    
17.15    17.28    C3    0.13    
17.15    17.28    C1    0.13    
17.20    17.33    C10    0.13    
17.21    17.34    C4B    0.13    
17.25    17.38    C2    0.13    
17.31    17.44    C4A    0.13    
17.32    17.45    C2    0.13    
17.36    17.49    C10    0.13    
17.39    17.52    C7    0.13    
17.40    17.53    C4B    0.13    
17.45    17.58    C3    0.13    
17.45    17.58    C1    0.13    
17.47    18.00    C2    0.13    
17.48    18.01    C4A    0.13    
17.50    18.03    C10    0.13    
17.55    18.08    C2    0.13    
17.56    18.09    C4B    0.13    
18.01    18.14    C8B    0.13    
18.03    18.16    C4A    0.13    
18.06    18.19    C10    0.13    
18.07    18.20    C3    0.13    
18.09    18.22    C7    0.13    
18.11    18.24    C4B    0.13    
18.15    18.28    C1    0.13    
18.17    18.30    C2    0.13    
18.17    18.30    C4A    0.13    
18.20    18.33    C10    0.13    
18.24    18.37    C4B    0.13    
18.25    18.38    C2    0.13    
18.27    18.40    C3    0.13    
18.31    18.44    C8B    0.13    
18.32    18.45    C4A    0.13    
18.34    18.47    C10    0.13    
18.39    18.52    C7    0.13    
18.41    18.54    C4B    0.13    
18.45    18.58    C1    0.13    
18.47    19.00    C2    0.13    
18.47    19.00    C3    0.13    
18.50    19.03    C4A    0.13    
18.50    19.03    C10    0.13    
18.54    19.07    C7    0.13    
18.56    19.09    C4B    0.13    
19.00    19.13    C3    0.13    
19.01    19.14    C8B    0.13    
19.03    19.16    C4A    0.13    
19.06    19.19    C10    0.13    
19.09    19.22    C7    0.13    
19.11    19.24    C4B    0.13    
19.15    19.28    C1    0.13    
19.16    19.29    C4A    0.13    
19.17    19.30    C2    0.13    
19.20    19.33    C3    0.13    
19.20    19.33    C10    0.13    
19.24    19.37    C7    0.13    
19.24    19.37    C4B    0.13    
19.31    19.44    C8B    0.13    
19.32    19.45    C4A    0.13    
19.35    19.48    C10    0.13    
19.39    19.52    C7    0.13    
19.41    19.54    C4B    0.13    
19.44    19.57    C3    0.13    
19.45    19.58    C1    0.13    
19.47    20.00    C2    0.13    
19.48    20.01    C4A    0.13    
19.50    20.03    C10    0.13    
19.54    20.07    C7    0.13    
19.54    20.07    C4B    0.13    
20.00    20.13    C3    0.13    
20.01    20.14    C8B    0.13    
20.03    20.16    C4A    0.13    
20.06    20.19    C10    0.13    
20.09    20.22    C7    0.13    
20.12    20.25    C4B    0.13    
20.15    20.28    C3    0.13    
20.15    20.28    C1    0.13    
20.17    20.30    C2    0.13    
20.18    20.31    C4A    0.13    
20.20    20.33    C10    0.13    
20.24    20.37    C7    0.13    
20.24    20.37    C4B    0.13    
20.32    20.45    C4A    0.13    
20.32    20.45    C2    0.13    
20.36    20.49    C3    0.13    
20.36    20.49    C10    0.13    
20.39    20.52    C4B    0.13    
20.39    20.52    C7    0.13    
20.45    20.58    C1    0.13    
20.47    21.00    C2    0.13    
20.48    21.01    C4A    0.13    
20.50    21.03    C10    0.13    
20.55    21.08    C2    0.13    
20.56    21.09    C4B    0.13    
20.59    21.12    C3    0.13    
21.01    21.14    C8B    0.13    
21.03    21.16    C4A    0.13    
21.06    21.19    C10    0.13    
21.09    21.22    C7    0.13    
21.12    21.25    C4B    0.13    
21.15    21.28    C1    0.13    
21.17    21.30    C4A    0.13    
21.18    21.31    C2    0.13    
21.20    21.33    C10    0.13    
21.20    21.33    C3    0.13    
21.24    21.37    C2    0.13    
21.25    21.38    C4B    0.13    
21.32    21.45    C2    0.13    
21.33    21.46    C4A    0.13    
21.36    21.49    C10    0.13    
21.39    21.52    C3    0.13    
21.41    21.54    C7    0.13    
21.42    21.55    C4B    0.13    
21.45    21.58    C1    0.13    
21.50    22.03    C10    0.13    
21.50    22.03    C4A    0.13    
21.55    22.08    C3    0.13    
22.02    22.15    C4B    0.13    
22.03    22.16    C8B    0.13    
22.06    22.19    C10    0.13    
22.10    22.23    C7    0.13    
22.11    22.24    C4A    0.13    
22.15    22.28    C1    0.13    
22.17    22.30    C3    0.13    
22.20    22.33    C10    0.13    
22.21    22.34    C4B    0.13    
22.23    22.36    C2    0.13    
22.31    22.44    C4A    0.13    
22.32    22.45    C2    0.13    
22.35    22.48    C10    0.13    
22.36    22.49    C3    0.13    
22.39    22.52    C7    0.13    
22.41    22.54    C4B    0.13    
22.45    22.58    C1    0.13    
22.50    23.03    C4A    0.13    
22.50    23.03    C10    0.13    
22.53    23.06    C2    0.13    
22.53    23.06    C3    0.13    
22.56    23.09    C4B    0.13    
23.01    23.14    C8B    0.13    
23.06    23.19    C10    0.13    
23.09    23.22    C7    0.13    
23.12    23.25    C4B    0.13    
23.15    23.28    C3    0.13    
23.15    23.28    C1    0.13    
23.20    23.33    C10    0.13    
23.23    23.36    C4A    0.13    
23.25    23.38    C2    0.13    
23.32    23.45    C2    0.13    
23.34    23.47    C3    0.13    
23.35    23.48    C10    0.13    
23.39    23.52    C4B    0.13    
23.43    23.56    C2    0.13    
23.45    23.58    C1    0.13    
23.50    00.03    C10    0.13    
23.53    00.06    C3    0.13    
23.57    00.09    C4B    0.12    
00.05    00.18    C2    0.13    
00.07    00.20    C10    0.13    
00.14    00.27    C3    0.13

[O_128]

Wait..So what your implying is it is possible to run trains even more frequently then 15 min with freight thrown into mix? But they said its impossible to run 15min to ipswich 

[colinw]

Wait..So what your implying is it is possible to run trains even more frequently then 15 min with freight thrown into mix? But they said its impossible to run 15min to ipswich  

Not implying - I've seen it with my own eyes.  I was sitting at Torrejon de Ardoz waiting for an inbound train toward Madrid.  I had just missed the previous train (thanks to a defective ticket machine), and had incurred the just about worst case 8 minute wait for the next train.  About 3 minutes before my train was due an electric hauled freight came whizzing through the platform I was waiting at, followed 3 minutes later by my inbound service.  Torrejon is in one of the quad areas 'though, it was unusual to see a freight on the platform road rather than one of the two tracks that don't pass through the platforms.

Actually that might be one of the keys to their capacity.  The Quad isn't all bunched up in continuous reaches from the inner city, rather there are strategically placed sections of quad, often further out on lines.  E.g. between Alcala de Henares and Atocha the C2/C7 line I use goes Quad - Double - Quad - Double with more quad further out (where there's a lot more freight & sidings/yards) and the final 5km into the city on double line.

In Madrid and most other European cities, I am quite confident that a line with the amount of infrastructure the Ipswich line has would be run at a minimum 6TPH level of service out to at least 30km from the city.

I really wish we (collective "we") would stop dribbling about metros for Brisbane and look at what the European (& other) suburban/commuter rail systems do. Compare apples with apples. A look at what many systems outside Australia, and even the best couple of Aussie ones do, will demonstrate just how far under capacity we are really running our rail system.

If you have any doubts about that, sit in the park that overlooks the line between Auchenflower & Toowong, and observe just how little traffic really flows along that nice 4 track main line.  It is also instructive to observe the signals after a train passes - the relatively fast series of changes through yellow, double-yellow to green and the how long signals are often sitting there at green before the next train comes through.

[O_128]

See this is what confuses me, I'm no expert with signalling etc but I assume you can run a train about ever 3 mins on a track. So even if you downgraded that to ever 5 min thats still 10 windows 4tph to Ipswich and 6 for freight, I look at toowong when I use it as well and think what massive waste. There is absolutely no reason why you couldn't run 8tph to Darra if there was demand. I feel that half of our rail problems are more political than actual infrastructure based.

[SurfRail]

See this is what confuses me, I'm no expert with signalling etc but I assume you can run a train about ever 3 mins on a track. So even if you downgraded that to ever 5 min thats still 10 windows 4tph to Ipswich and 6 for freight, I look at toowong when I use it as well and think what massive waste. There is absolutely no reason why you couldn't run 8tph to Darra if there was demand. I feel that half of our rail problems are more political than actual infrastructure based.

It isn't one-for-one.  Freights travel slower, are longer, perform non-standard moves (for passenger revenue services) over junctions etc. 

Don't let that fool anybody though.  Even with freight, the Ipswich line is quite capable of sustaining a good frequency of passenger service on the 2-track stretch (4tph at least), if not quite what Madrid has access to.

[Golliwog]

Other network constraints would also come into effect for freights as well though. Out at the port we were told their coal trains are restricted to 1tph because of the Toowoomba range IIRC. Plus, just the same as with passenger movements, if you can't get the time slots to line up then one of the trains will have to wait to use a section of track.