Queensland Parliament - Hansard. items of interest

[ozbob]

25th October 2011
Questions Without Notice
http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2011/2011_10_25_DAILY.pdf

Public Transport
Mr EMERSON: My question is to the Minister for Transport. I return to the government's Shaping
Tomorrow's Queensland document. Why has this Labor government dumped its broken promise made
13 years ago to double the percentage of journeys being taken on public transport by 2010 and instead
moved its target out by another 20 years? Is it because the minister thinks the Treasurer's private
member's bill is more important than getting outcomes in public transport?
Ms PALASZCZUK: I thank the member very much for the question. When asked by Madonna
King what the member for Indooroopilly thought about civil unions he could not give a direct answer. I
will be very interested to hear what the member for Indooroopilly has to say about civil unions when the
private member's bill is introduced later on this evening. I will be very interested to hear his views and
whether or not the members opposite will be able to exercise a conscience vote or whether Campbell
Newman will make them all fall back into line and not support it. This will be a test of what individual
members have to say.
I am more than happy to talk about public transport. Yes, we do want to see by 2031 our mode
share of public transport increase from 7 per cent to 14 per cent. We are continuing to invest. On the
weekend the Minister for Main Roads and myself released the Connecting SEQ 2031 final strategy
which outlines a vision for public transport infrastructure for the next 20 years. It is a Labor government
that is delivering for public transport.
Mr EMERSON: I rise to a point of order. It is a motion before the parliament.
Ms PALASZCZUK: Let me finish.
Mr SPEAKER: Resume your seat. There is no point of order. I will hear the minister.
Ms PALASZCZUK: We have seen from the opposition its can-do LNP plan, taken from the
South-East Queensland regional mayors. That is its answer for public transport in South-East
Queensland—plagiarism. Since the member for Indooroopilly has asked this question it is worthwhile
highlighting to the parliament that when he was asked some transport questions by Spencer Howson at
the end of last month he could not really give an answer. Spencer Howson asked, 'Well, what are you
going to do when you get into government?' There was no answer. Spencer said, 'Right, I will ask you a
second time. What are you going to do about it—the LNP?' Scott Emerson, again no answer. For the
third time Spencer Howson said, 'Right, so I will ask you for a third time. What are you going to do about
transport when you get in? Four times you were asked and four times there was no answer.
The Victorian Liberals have been coming up with some transport policies. The opposition cannot
come up with transport policies, but the Victorian government can. It recently had its party conference.
What two policies did the Victorian Liberals come up with? One, wi-fi on trains and, two, quiet carriages.
Both delivered by this Queensland Labor government. I welcome the day when the shadow minister for
transport comes up with some transport policies. I am happy to debate him anywhere, any time. I am
happy to debate you because you have absolutely nothing.

[Golliwog]

Public Transport
Mr EMERSON: My question is to the Minister for Transport. I return to the government's Shaping
Tomorrow's Queensland document. Why has this Labor government dumped its broken promise made
13 years ago to double the percentage of journeys being taken on public transport by 2010 and instead
moved its target out by another 20 years? Is it because the minister thinks the Treasurer's private
member's bill is more important than getting outcomes in public transport?

I had no idea about that promise, nor what the PT mode share was 13 years ago, if someone had any details on that I'd be interested to hear them. However, given we're now in 2011, calling the government out on a promise to deliver something by last year is a bit ridiculous. Obviously the Opposition didn't care about it either.

[somebody]

Public Transport
Mr EMERSON: My question is to the Minister for Transport. I return to the government's Shaping
Tomorrow's Queensland document. Why has this Labor government dumped its broken promise made
13 years ago to double the percentage of journeys being taken on public transport by 2010 and instead
moved its target out by another 20 years? Is it because the minister thinks the Treasurer's private
member's bill is more important than getting outcomes in public transport?

I had no idea about that promise, nor what the PT mode share was 13 years ago, if someone had any details on that I'd be interested to hear them. However, given we're now in 2011, calling the government out on a promise to deliver something by last year is a bit ridiculous. Obviously the Opposition didn't care about it either.

The 1997 IRTP targeted growth to 14% of trips on PT, and the same target is pushed out to a later deadline.  That part is completely true.  Ozbob sent me a copy of the pdfs.  They are completely bus focused.  There was to be a busway from Petrie to Kippa-Ring for example.  And Indro or St Lucia, among other pretty ridiculous ideas.  Arguably, the Bus Lane on Coro was what this was watered down to.

[Jonno]

Connecting SEQ 2031 shows that public transport as a % of all trips has declined since 1997.  Yet public transport usage has increased almost 50%.  So despite all the investment in public and active transport the number of trips by motor vehicle has increased.  The policy in 1997 was to reduce car use. In 2011 we have failed dismally!  This is why I left the planning industry in 1998!!

This is the wake up call our region needs. In 14 years we have not reduce car usage one 1 metre.  The Govt plans (at all levels) have delivered the exact opposite outcome they desired or at least stated.  Failure does not come any clearer. No major political party is blameless in this failure. 

An 180 degree about face in transport planning/projects is the only way to reduce motor vehicle usage.

[ozbob]

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/S/South-East-Queensland-Integrated-Regional-Transport-Plan-1997.aspx

For anyone interested the 1997 IRTP can found via the link above ...

[BrizCommuter]

Why can't the opposition (or the press for that matter) ask decent questions, such as where are the 15 minute off-peak frequencies that were expected to be introduced in 2010 according to the Inner City Rail Capacity Study (and two prior rail studies)?

[O_128]

Why can't the opposition (or the press for that matter) ask decent questions, such as where are the 15 minute off-peak frequencies that were expected to be introduced in 2010 according to the Inner City Rail Capacity Study (and two prior rail studies)?

Because the LNP can't/won't deliver them when they get elected next year, They don't want to be supporting something they won't implement themselves.

[Jonno]

Because their leader is stuck in 1960 and believes without a doubt that the solution to congestion is more roads.  He also believes that public and active transport can never be more than 30% of trips but cannot explain the limiting factor other than "the rest will always drive".

Hoping the LNP is going to be a transport savior is a futile endeavour.

[somebody]

Connecting SEQ 2031 shows that public transport as a % of all trips has declined since 1997.  Yet public transport usage has increased almost 50%.  So despite all the investment in public and active transport the number of trips by motor vehicle has increased.  The policy in 1997 was to reduce car use. In 2011 we have failed dismally!  This is why I left the planning industry in 1998!!

Is that true about declining %?  I though in 1997 is was around 6.x%, and in ~2010 7%.

[Golliwog]

I was going to post a quote of the discussion about Connecting SEQ 2031 last night starting from Scott Emerson's Motion:

Mr EMERSON (Indooroopilly—LNP) (5.30 pm): I move—
That this House condemns the Bligh Labor government for releasing another glossy brochure called 'Connecting SEQ 2031 plan'
that promises $227 billion in unfunded projects with no commitment to deliver any of them.

However, the discussion went for 1 hour and copied into word goes for 9 and a half pages. If Ozbob thinks it worth the space then I'll put it up, otherwise, I recommend going to yesterday's Hansard and going down to the bottom of page 67 where it starts.

The motion was agreed upon after being ammended to:

Motion, as agreed—
That this House endorses the detailed transport plan titled Connecting SEQ 2031 which has been delivered by the Bligh
Government and notes that this plan provides the vision for transport over the next 20 years for South East Queensland.

[Golliwog]

Connecting SEQ 2031 shows that public transport as a % of all trips has declined since 1997.  Yet public transport usage has increased almost 50%.  So despite all the investment in public and active transport the number of trips by motor vehicle has increased.  The policy in 1997 was to reduce car use. In 2011 we have failed dismally!  This is why I left the planning industry in 1998!!

Is that true about declining %?  I though in 1997 is was around 6.x%, and in ~2010 7%.

Given the rising patronage we had since 1997, I don't think the failure to increase the mode share is due to them not trying, rather that their plans probably underestimated the growth in population.

[Jonno]

It is due to them putting most of the transport funding into roads! Where funding had been put into Public Transport it has been very successful.  They just aren't putting enough into it and they are wasting money on tunnels and road expansion.

[somebody]

It is due to them putting most of the transport funding into roads! Where funding had been put into Public Transport it has been very successful.  They just aren't putting enough into it and they are wasting money on tunnels and road expansion.

Correction: When they have put it into services it has been successful, e.g. BUZ.  When they have put it in to infrastructure it hasn't been really, e.g. Mitchelton-Keperra, Salisbury-Kuraby, CAB-Beerburrum, Corinda-Darra-Richlands. Although the latter did involve a service upgrade.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Mitchelton to Keperra was the first stage of the Mitchelton-Ferny Grove duplication project. Benfits won't be seen until the whole project is complete as the first stage just moved the bottleneck futher along the line. The works between Sailsbury and Kuraby involved moving some stations that were situated on curves to enable level boarding and to meet DDA requirements with the third line/platform to improve capacity and realibility. While you don't think the infrastructure was much I beg to differ.

[colinw]

<cough> - Beerburrum - <cough> 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Another stage of a total project the Government has stuffed up on 

[SurfRail]

Mitchelton to Keperra was the first stage of the Mitchelton-Ferny Grove duplication project. Benfits won't be seen until the whole project is complete as the first stage just moved the bottleneck futher along the line. The works between Sailsbury and Kuraby involved moving some stations that were situated on curves to enable level boarding and to meet DDA requirements with the third line/platform to improve capacity and realibility. While you don't think the infrastructure was much I beg to differ.

Mitchelton to Ferny Grove - inexplicable cessation of work at Keperra.  This should have been delivered in one hit - I can almost guarantee the borrowings which would have been needed would have been less expensive than the increase in labour and other costs which are racking up each year in excess of base inflation, plus you would have had economies of scale at work.

Salisbury to Kuraby only upgraded selected platforms.  There is no level boarding at Banoon or Sunnybank, and one low level platform each at Altandi, Runcorn and Fruitgrove (albeit those platforms are never used by scheduled services).  And, for all the investment, the poor positioning of turnouts means we can't have high frequencies in both directions.

Caboolture to Landsborough - mysterious curtailment at Beerburrum.  2 upgraded stations serve less passengers than what 2-3 railbuses could carry with a full-standing load, and with no faster trip (owing to capacity constraints further south though).  Cutting the project in half will cost more than delivering it in one hit, which would have actually seen some benefit.

Corinda to Darra - poorly sited Darra station retained, only 3 electrified tracks and 3 platforms at Oxley, junction layout less than optimal, facing moves required.

Conclusion - half-baked outcomes across the board.  There needs to be much greater oversight of what is proposed to be delivered to stop these kinds of stuff-ups from happening again.

[somebody]

Mitchelton to Keperra was the first stage of the Mitchelton-Ferny Grove duplication project. Benfits won't be seen until the whole project is complete as the first stage just moved the bottleneck futher along the line. The works between Sailsbury and Kuraby involved moving some stations that were situated on curves to enable level boarding and to meet DDA requirements with the third line/platform to improve capacity and realibility. While you don't think the infrastructure was much I beg to differ.

It was necessary to have Mitchelton to Keperra to have a 15 minute frequency to Ferny Grove without a precision cross.  If the services had been upgraded to suit, this would have been a good project, but they weren't.  At least not outside peak hour.

I don't see the merit in going beyond Keperra.  If we are saying that there should be a tiered service on the Cleveland and Beenleigh lines, and I can only imagine a 4tph service on the Shorncliffe line, then why stations such as Norman Park & Fairfield aren't entitled to an equivalent service to Wilston is unclear to me.

I suppose some could argue that that argument should be used re: Sunshine and Auchenflower.  I guess the infrastructure already available changes the trade off for me.

stage

[HappyTrainGuy]

Everyone has something to complain about and their never happy with what they have. Whinge whinge whinge. Boo hoo hoo. People want express trains from their station. People want trains every 15 mins on every single line all day long. People are complaining about a few extra stops trains now make. The effort of removing one card from your wallet. The noise of freight trains going over a set of points. The lack of crossover points. Maintainence schedules. Level crossings that are older than they are. A extra couple minutes of added dwell time. How long doors take to close. People want new lines over here and over there. Removing seats to increase capacity. My train is delayed for three minutes and they won't tell me why. Electrifying a dedicated freight line so passenger trains can make milk runs to a freight and shipping precient. A multi billion dollar tunnel. Money just doesn't grow on trees. If your unhappy with the situation around you then drive or move somewhere better. You choose to live 100km from work and then complain about your trip turning into something similar to the Bombay express when in reality its not then that's your problem. I didn't pick a school 100km away on the gold coast only to complain about the length of time it took to get to and from there. Lets bring on 160kph trains running every 15 mins only to be stuck at a station waiting for some small dinky bus full of school kids that's atleast another 30 minutes away from where I want to get to or the beach.

It was alot more than selected platforms. Some stations were moved and rebuilt from the ground up. Massive works was done in relocating Coopers Plains, Runcorn, Altandi and Fruitgrove stations to enable level boarding/platforms straight and flushed against trains.

Yellow is the original platforms. Red being the current platforms today at Coopers Plains.


Altandi, Coopers Plains, Runcorn, Banoon, Sunnybank, Fruitgrove, Kuraby are all now wheelchair accessable. They all have improved lighting, CCTV and security, new/improved/extra facilities, an extra track and platform. Banoon and Sunnybank are on curves so no level boarding there. All stations now meet the DDA requirments. And running high frequency is a joke in itself without CRR.

Anyone care to guess the station?

[SurfRail]

So in other words, we should be grateful for infrastructure projects that basically add no capacity to the system, are poorly designed for higher capacity rail operations, lock in old alignments and safeworking practices and are arbitrarily stopped without explanation.

Queenslander!!!

[ozbob]

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2011/2011_10_26_DAILY.pdf

Ministerial Statements 26th October 2011

Public Transport

Hon. A PALASZCZUK (Inala—ALP) (Minister for Transport and Multicultural Affairs) (2.10 pm): I
have more good news for public transport commuters today. From next Monday, 31 October, a
$4 million bus package will see more bus services in Brisbane's southern and south-western suburbs,
adding another 62,000 weekly seats. This means that we have already delivered more than half of the
300,000 new seats we promised in 2011-12. We are delivering more frequent services, particularly in off
peak and at weekends, for people in the outer southern suburbs.
This morning I met Robert Dow from Rail Back on Track and caught the 100 bus into the city. This
is one of the two new high frequency bus routes that we are rolling out for people from the outer
southern suburbs—the 100 from Forest Lake and the 180 running from Garden City with both becoming
BUZ routes. As a result, timetables will not be needed any more on these routes as people can basically
turn up and go. Just as they do in the city, people in the outer suburbs now have buses that run at least
every five to 10 minutes during the peak and every 15 minutes off peak between 6 am and 11 pm, every
day, including weekends and public holidays.
This major bus investment, which includes up to 14 new buses, will benefit residents living in
Forest Lake, Durack, Inala, Carindale, Eight Mile Plains, Wishart, Mansfield and Holland Park. As part of
this new package commuters along the Ipswich Road corridor, especially through Moorooka and
Annerley, and students at Metro South TAFE in Mount Gravatt and Cavendish Road State High School
will all enjoy high frequency services for the first time.

This government has been busy funding new public transport options and seats all year. Two
weeks ago, the Acting Premier and I also announced new incentives for regular go card users, giving
people free travel after they have made 10 journeys in a week starting from 2 January next year. We are
also increasing the off peak discount from 15 to 20 per cent, boosting the savings for people who travel
between 9 am and 3.30 pm and after 7 pm on weekdays.
In June, we added more than 200,000 weekly seats with stage 1 of the train and bus timetable
overhaul, with consultation for stage 2 due to begin next month. In August, we rolled out more than
100,000 weekly seats to the network with the opening of the $466 million Eastern Busway extension to
Coorparoo. This government is expanding public transport seats, services and busways across South-
East Queensland and we will continue to do so. It is a Labour government delivering public transport for
South-East Queensland.

[ozbob]

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2011/2011_10_26_DAILY.pdf

Questions without notice 26th October 2011

Passenger Trains

Mr EMERSON: My question is to the Minister for Transport. Can the minister reveal why she has
been forced to secretly cut by 25 per cent the multibillion-dollar contract to build 200 three-car
passenger trains and will now only build 75 six-car trains? Is this not just another example of Labor's
financial mismanagement and inability to plan?
Ms PALASZCZUK: I would like to thank the member very much for the question. What this
government is doing is continuing to roll out public transport seats right across our rail network and our
bus network. What we have seen over the last couple of years is one passenger train coming off the line
and going on to our public transport network, which goes right up until December this year. This is what
we are delivering—
Mr Lucas: A month.
Ms PALASZCZUK: A month. Sorry, one a month. We are delivering for public transport
commuters and we will continue to do so. As I said earlier today, with our train timetable overhaul, we
have already delivered over 150,000 seats and we will continue to do so.
I find it absurd that today the shadow minister has once again asked a question about public
transport when they have no alternative policies—absolutely no policies in relation to this. On cross-river
rail, what we have seen is conflicting views in his leader between what he said now and what he said
when he was Lord Mayor of Brisbane.
Mr Emerson: Why won't you answer the question?
Ms PALASZCZUK: No, I am answering the question. I have said we are delivering a new
passenger train each month up until December this year.
Mr Emerson: Have you signed the contracts?
Ms PALASZCZUK: No, we have not. Again, we are delivering the public transport network that
we need for this—
Opposition members interjected.
Ms PALASZCZUK: No, just—
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Those on my left will cease interjecting. The minister has the call.
Ms PALASZCZUK: Thank you very much. In fact the government is considering our future needs
for more passenger trains, which we will be considering in due time, and we will be considering who will
be getting those contracts.
Mr Emerson: So you've cut them?
Ms PALASZCZUK: No.
Mr Emerson: Have you told the bidders that you've cut the contract? Yes or no?
Mr SPEAKER: The honourable member has asked the question. I am listening carefully to the
minister's answer and she is answering the question.
A government member interjected.
Ms PALASZCZUK: Exactly. We will make sure that we procure it in the best possible way—
Mr Lucas: To get value for money.
Ms PALASZCZUK: Value for money. There will be a transparent process. There will be a fair
process when we deliver the contracts in relation to this. It is very clear—
Mr Fraser: Get up and take a point of order on yourself.
Ms PALASZCZUK: Yes, take a point of order on yourself. What we outlined yesterday was very
clearly a vision for South-East Queensland about our public transport for the future. It is a 20-year vision
which we see where we are going to keep on delivering—
Mr Emerson: And fewer trains.
Ms PALASZCZUK: You do not even have a position on cross-river rail. This is the absurdity of it.
You do not even have a position on cross-river rail. You do not have a rail policy. Your answer was to
send trains over the Merivale Bridge.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Minister, it would help if you directed your answer through the chair.
Ms PALASZCZUK: Mr Speaker, that was their option.
Mr Emerson interjected.
Mr SPEAKER: And the member for Indooroopilly will cease interjecting.
Ms PALASZCZUK: That was their option which Queensland Rail just ruled out completely. When
you get a policy, I am more than happy to debate it.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Direct your comments through the chair.

[#Metro]

Everyone has something to complain about and their never happy with what they have. Whinge whinge whinge. Boo hoo hoo. People want express trains from their station. People want trains every 15 mins on every single line all day long. People are complaining about a few extra stops trains now make. The effort of removing one card from your wallet. The noise of freight trains going over a set of points. The lack of crossover points. Maintainence schedules. Level crossings that are older than they are. A extra couple minutes of added dwell time. How long doors take to close. People want new lines over here and over there. Removing seats to increase capacity. My train is delayed for three minutes and they won't tell me why. Electrifying a dedicated freight line so passenger trains can make milk runs to a freight and shipping precient. A multi billion dollar tunnel. Money just doesn't grow on trees.

Frequent trains in Perth, Adelaide (selected stops), Sydney and Melbourne...

Labor does have a record on PT and as much as people might have gripes, they DO have a track record of delivering. LNP doesn't have a track record, no policy (well they're not going to roll it out before the election is announced - i'm guessing that its up their sleeve, so they better come up with something decent...

Not too many more bus routes to go on the Core Frequent Network

[ozbob]

It is clear to me that 15 minutes is not going to be achieved for now,  I think the system should change from 30 minute base to 20 minute base.  For example,  that way tiered expresses can be run from Caboolture to Ipswich around the clock (Richlands <-> Petrie) (Caboolture - Petrie < Express> Darra - Ipswich).  The only down side is a slight reduction in off peak frequency for some stations from 15 minutes to 20 minutes.  Peak can be 10 minutes, 5 minutes.

Melbourne has a lot of 20 minute frequency history, it is good space to be in as better than 30 minutes, and allows gains whilst system builds to higher frequency.  Say 20 minute from first AM train though to 10pm (higher frequencies during peaks and shoulders), when it reverts to 30 minute.  Harping on about 15 minutes when they clearly can't and won't needs to  be thought through as the need for a staged progression.

[Arnz]

I'd be more in favor of overlaying Richlands and Ipswich to form 10 min metro frequencies to as far as Northgate at the least, than full time express to the outer areas, as I personally think metro like frequencies closer to the city would be a better deal.  I am however in support of full time express to the outer areas (as well as the coasts) in the longer term, when additional tracks at the chokepoints permits overtaking.

[ozbob]

I'd be more in favor of overlaying Richlands and Ipswich to form 10 min metro frequencies to as far as Northgate at the least, than full time express to the outer areas, as I personally think metro like frequencies closer to the city would be a better deal.  I am however in support of full time express to the outer areas (as well as the coasts) in the longer term, when additional tracks at the chokepoints permits overtaking.

Shorncliffe and Petri (ex Richlands) takes care of frequency between CBD and Northgate.  The only stations that don't have 10 minute between Darra and CBD are those that a bypassed on the express pattern.  A trifle considering the overall gains.

The problem is that too many problems are continually presented, whilst times get longer and frequency remains static.  They should just do it as elsewhere.

[ozbob]

Anyone care to guess the station?

No need to guess, Runcorn.

When  will we get expresses to Goodna?  (only joking ...    )

[#Metro]

15 minutes or bust! 

[Cam]

Ms PALASZCZUK has a hide to say "I will be very interested to hear what the member for Indooroopilly has to say about civil unions when the
private member's bill is introduced later on this evening." When Peter Wellington's private member's bill proposing daylight saving for South East Queensland was introduced, she had nothing to say on it. This is despite more than two thirds of her electorate being in favour of daylight saving.

The member for Inala was denied a vote on the daylight saving bill by the ALP just like the member for Indooroopilly will be denied a vote on the civil union bill by the LNP.

[O_128]

Harsh converstation, Both are in the wrong, The minister for not answering the god damned question and Mr emmerson for having no solution of where these 200 new trains will go.

My Conspiracy theory is the 200 trains have been cut to 150 as labor knows they will get voted out and without CRR there is no point buying any new trains 

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Trains funding runs off the rails as state cuts $1billion tender

Trains funding runs off the rails as state cuts $1billion tender

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    October 27, 2011 12:00AM

THE latest plan to build more trains for the city's busy network has hit trouble after the State Government apparently cut a $1 billion tender because it can't afford it.

In 2007, the Government admitted it had bought new trains that did not fit through Brisbane's busiest tunnels.

Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson yesterday said the contract had been slashed 25 per cent to 450 carriages from the 600 promised by the Government as recently as last Sunday.

"The Government had claimed the New Generation Rollingstock project would replace and expand the existing train fleet with 200 three-car passenger trains," Mr Emerson said.

"Instead, the Bligh Government has now told bidders that the contract will now only be for 75, six-car passenger trains, effectively slashing the order by a quarter."

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk refused to give a straight answer when asked about the contract cut in State Parliament yesterday.

When contacted by The Courier-Mail, the minister's office said they were "looking into it".

Mr Emerson said the cut in train numbers came as commuters were facing fare rises of 15 per cent a year until 2014.

"Labor insists these fee hikes are used for investment in public transport infrastructure, but the cut to new train numbers shows they are trying to con commuters," he said.

"The truth is the extra money from the hikes in train, bus and ferry fares is going to pay the $100 million a week interest bill on the massive debt Labor has given Queensland."

The last major rollout of new passenger trains in 2007 was beset with problems when it discovered they had been built too big for Brisbane's tunnel network.

As a result, the tunnel between Fortitude Valley and Central stations had to be widened to allow the new trains to fit through at speed.

Late yesterday, the Transport Minister said the Government had been rolling out 64 new three-carriage trains over the past 64 months.

"There is no reduction in the required future rollingstock, which is 200," said Ms Palaszczuk.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Timetable for new trains wound back

Timetable for new trains wound back
Daniel Hurst
October 27, 2011 - 3:00AM

The Bligh Government has quietly changed its purchase plans for 200 new trains bound for the passenger rail network, delaying some of the orders amid opposition claims of a cover-up.

But Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk last night denied anything sinister was afoot, saying the decision to purchase the new trains in stages was linked to the deferral of Brisbane's $8 billion underground rail project.

Ms Palaszczuk confirmed changes had been made to Queensland Rail's purchase plans after opposition counterpart Scott Emerson used question time to accuse her of secrecy over the multi-billion-dollar contract, still out for bids from builders.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Mr Emerson said the latest Queensland Rail annual report stated the New Generation Rollingstock project would replace and expand the existing train fleet with 200 three-car passenger trains.

But he said he had been informed the Bligh Government had recently told bidders for the contract the purchase would only be for 75, six-car passenger trains, effectively slashing the number of individual train cars on order by a quarter.

Ms Palaszczuk's office was unable to say last night what bidders had been told or details of the purchase staging, but insisted the government was still committed to buying 200 new three-car trains, otherwise known as rollingstock.

In a statement, Ms Palaszczuk said there was "no reduction in the required future rollingstock", which was 200, but the purchase would be staged differently.

"The government will stage the roll out as [the] cross-river rail [project] is delayed by two years," she said.

"It is prudent, good business to plan for demand and to make sure you have the option to order more trains as needed as easily as possible."

Ms Palaszczuk said the government had been delivering 64 new-three car carriage rollingstock at the rate of one every month for the past 64 months.

Mr Emerson said the government had been "caught out" changing the multi-billion-dollar contract plan without telling the public, and claimed the decision was due to a lack of money rather than the cross-river rail deferral in January.

"They've run the budget so badly they can't afford this project," he said.

According to the Queensland Rail annual report, the three bidders for the construction work are UGL Limited, Bombardier Transportation and CAF Mitsubishi.

The NGR project will provide trains to replace and expand the existing passenger fleet.

Previous media reports have estimated the original contract worth at more than $3 billion.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/timetable-for-new-trains-wound-back-20111026-1mkbt.html

[ozbob]

There are 87 3 car EMU sets that will need to be replaced. The order appears to have been pruned from 200 3 car sets, down to 150 3 car sets. That covers the EMU replacements and leaves around 60 3 car sets over for further expansions in terms of services and frequency. Long haul interurban will also need more specialised rolling stock.

[somebody]

And running high frequency is a joke in itself without CRR.

Not in the off peak.  Assuming you are calling 15 minutes "high frequency", which is a bit of a stretch IMO.

I'd be more in favor of overlaying Richlands and Ipswich to form 10 min metro frequencies to as far as Northgate at the least, than full time express to the outer areas, as I personally think metro like frequencies closer to the city would be a better deal.  I am however in support of full time express to the outer areas (as well as the coasts) in the longer term, when additional tracks at the chokepoints permits overtaking.

Shorncliffe and Petri (ex Richlands) takes care of frequency between CBD and Northgate.  The only stations that don't have 10 minute between Darra and CBD are those that a bypassed on the express pattern.  A trifle considering the overall gains.

The problem is that too many problems are continually presented, whilst times get longer and frequency remains static.  They should just do it as elsewhere.

There are many legitimate problems with 20 minute frequency, particularly Beenleigh/Gold Coast and Cleveland.  It would be a good trade for Shorncliffe, but that's too bad.

The reduction in frequency which would occur at stations like Sherwood is something that I don't think we should be putting forward.  There really is little excuse for the 30 minute frequency Virginia-Petrie, and also at Richlands. 4tph Richlands would allow the Ipswich trains to run express.  I think these changes is what we should be pushing for.

If you still like the 20 minute Richlands/Ipswich express then what stations would be bypassed by the express?  I'd be thinking Auchenflower, Taringa, Chelmer-Oxley.  The reduction in frequency that those stations seems problematic.  Perhaps you are thinking of a different pattern, like express only Chelmer-Sherwood?  Seems little point in bothering in the latter.

[ozbob]

The only variation in the present express pattern would be to include Toowong.  I think they could do that now, and still run the same times.

At Springfield on Sunday I was give a summary of points, one of these included the proposed train frequency. !5 minutes at peak, 30 minutes off peak. Clearly there is no intent to do anything with frequency at present.

Whether or not this changes during the forthcoming election campaign would be interesting.  

A change from 15 minute to 20 minute for the few stations that have 15 minute frequency now is inconsequential when one considers the huge gains for the rest of the system to move to a 20 minute pulse.  

Do nothing, and we are stuck with the abysmal frequency for many more years.  Time to realistically examine incremental options.  I have had enough of 15 minutes yelps which clearly the authorities have no intention of moving with.  Now 20 minutes, is a different thing. Hard to defend not doing that ....

[HappyTrainGuy]

From the Couriermail click here!

Trains funding runs off the rails as state cuts $1billion tender

Trains funding runs off the rails as state cuts $1billion tender

   by: Robyn Ironside
   From: The Courier-Mail
   October 27, 2011 12:00AM
...
Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson yesterday said the contract had been slashed 25 per cent to 450 carriages from the 600 promised by the Government as recently as last Sunday.
....

Oh no. That's a real disaster. That's 300 out of the 400 windscreen wipers or 600 out of the 800 cab doors or 900 out of the 1200 bogies or 1800 out of the 2400 wheels that we were promised  

Honestly, I'm not suprised if there are a reduction in rollingstock numbers. The final number was all pending on the amount of money that the government was willing to spend on depots and the additional rail lines - Kippa Ring/Springfield extension/Gold Coast extension/Cross River Rail. And who said that it was going to be 200 trains anyway? Everything I read from QR said 'up to'... I guess they knew the Government would stiff them with the cheque

[Stillwater]

There is no inconsistency in this group promoting 20-minute frequency as a staging post towards the ultimate goal of 15-minute frequency.

[ozbob]

There is no inconsistency in this group promoting 20-minute frequency as a staging post towards the ultimate goal of 15-minute frequency.

Exactly, 15 minutes to everywhere is just not going to happen right now folks.

A good start point would be Ferny Grove stage 2, move from 30 minute to 20 minute out of peak.

[colinw]

Bob, I must confess that I find it a little bit sad that you think we need to give up on arguing for what is really a fairly basic standard of service, because "it just is not going to happen".  Shows how far this debate really has to run before things turn around in QLD, even as every other rail jurisdiction in Australia seems to be getting its act together.

Having said that, 20 minute is acceptable as an interim measure in my opinion, with these caveats:

1.  Watering down of the 20 minute frequency to 40 minutes in evening or weekends is BAD.  Melbourne did this on some lines (Upfield, Hurstbridge), resulting in a confusing timetable that was hard to remember.

2. 20 minute frequency to both Ipswich & Richlands, with the Ippies running express. I'm not going to cry about a 4TPH to 3TPH drop at somewhere like Sherwood, and the resulting 6TPH service at places like Indooroopilly & Toowong would be a boon.

3. As above.  20 minute frequency to both Petrie (eventually Kippa-Ring) and Caboolture, with the Caboolture trains running express.  Frankly, places like Sunshine don't need 4TPH and probably never will.  OTOH 6TPH at Zillmere, Strathpine, Petrie would be an excellent outcome.

4. Is 3TPH to Cleveland achievable without infrastructure changes?  I'd hate to see 3TPH to Manly or Lota and Cleveland get shafted with a train every 40 minutes.

It must be an interim stage 'though. If I don't get my 4TPH base service within the next 10 or so years, I'm going to have a toddler tantrum.  

I am starting to wonder if the culture of rail in this state is terminally broken, and that is the real reason why Governments have opted to ignore rail and build a parallel busway system.

[Gazza]

I'm not really willing to accept a frequency reduction at Corinda (my station)
Areas with higher population density and full 360 degree walkup patronage naturally should have higher frequency than outlying low density areas and stations without walkup.
A 2tph Ippy express and 4 tph Richlands solution is my preferred one.