Changes to go card fare structure announced today, 16th October 2011

[dwb]

If we aren't worried about the 20% then why are we bothering?

It would be 20% off a small number of trips for a small number of people... so would cost Translink stuff all... but implementing the policy could have huge impacts for customers.

I stand my ground and I do not believe one size fits all. Segmentation is key. And besides, at this stage I'm suggesting EVERYONE have the ability to set what the first day of their 7 day week is... it's not a biggie!

[somebody]

Still to be proven patronage a) actually dropped and b) that this was related to fare increases.

Hmm, Let's RTI request the passenger counts.  I think it has been established that patronage growth is lagging population growth.  Before the fare rises, patronage growth was exceeding population growth.  Even if population growth is slowing to around 1.9% in 2009/10.

If we aren't worried about the 20% then why are we bothering?

It would be 20% off a small number of trips for a small number of people... so would cost Translink stuff all... but implementing the policy could have huge impacts for customers.

I stand my ground and I do not believe one size fits all. Segmentation is key. And besides, at this stage I'm suggesting EVERYONE have the ability to set what the first day of their 7 day week is... it's not a biggie!

I don't support a continued focus on fares.

[ozbob]

Check out the blog comments --> here!

Many do not understand how it might be used to advantage, few wise posts sprinkled here and there.

[somebody]

I think the old system was close to world's best practice.  RAILBoT has lobbied for change and gotten it.  Will we focus more on services now?

[Fares_Fair]

Check out the blog comments --> here!

Many do not understand how it might be used to advantage, few wise posts sprinkled here and there.

There sure is an awful lot of stick in the 160 odd story responses to date.
Perhaps students do not have the same level of access to a computer that most 9-5 weekday workers (respondents) would.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

I think the old system was close to world's best practice.  RAILBoT has lobbied for change and gotten it.  Will we focus more on services now?

I think there is still much more to be done.
I suspect that this is really just to try and offset the huge backlash that will occur when the fares hike another 15% on 2 January.
I certainly hope that it works to increase off-peak travel significantly (which is a necessity) - but have my doubts.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

I think the old system was close to world's best practice.  RAILBoT has lobbied for change and gotten it.  Will we focus more on services now?

Always have. There are many pieces to the pie though.

Very first media release ...

Media Release  15 August 2006

RAIL  Back On Track (http://backontrack.org)   a new web based community organisation for the promotion of rail throughout Australia has suggested that an important issue for the Queensland State Election on September 9th is transport.  

A RAIL Back On Track spokesman said that

"There has been a long period of neglect of our transport options in Queensland. Yes, some movement with the upgrades of the north coast line, the Gold Coast line, and the go-ahead for the Darra Springfield line.

"However, many of our railways throughout the state have either been closed, or are in a serious state of neglect. It will be a sound investment for the future to revitalise our rail network. Increasing energy shortages, not the least of which will be prohibitive price of petrol/diesel/LPG, will see a return of freight and passengers to rail.

"It is essential that the Redcliffe railway (which has been promised for years and years) actually go ahead!"

"The south east corner, particularly Brisbane needs to review the suburban rail network with a view to increasing train frequencies and properly integrated buses, and expanding the network. The farcical situation with buses in competition with our suburban railways in Brisbane is leading to costly road works, disillusioned and disgruntled passengers, and contributing to grid and bus lock! The bus system is already in a desperate state. Control for this must be wrested from the council and brought into sync with trains."

Contact:  

Administration RAIL Back On Track
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Gee, guess we could just change to the year to 2011 and fire it off ... lol

[Golliwog]

Check out the blog comments --> here!

Many do not understand how it might be used to advantage, few wise posts sprinkled here and there.

There sure is an awful lot of stick in the 160 odd story responses to date.
Perhaps students do not have the same level of access to a computer that most 9-5 weekday workers (respondents) would.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Or it being two weeks now till the end of semester many are working on their last assignments for the semester. Or don't care enough to post on CM. Knowing the students I know, most likely the latter.

[somebody]

I think the old system was close to world's best practice.  RAILBoT has lobbied for change and gotten it.  Will we focus more on services now?

I suspect that this is really just to try and offset the huge backlash that will occur when the fares hike another 15% on 2 January.
I certainly hope that it works to increase off-peak travel significantly (which is a necessity) - but have my doubts.

Agree with that.

The point is, it is not like we have been lobbying against the fare rises, but the fare structure.  We cannot complain having been given what we have asked for.  Perhaps not quite as some would like, but probably better in a lot of ways.  At least it isn't like myki in which the myki pass must be loaded on to the card.

[dwb]

He said the measure was likely to cost the government about $7 million in foregone revenue annually, but there were spare seats during off-peak periods so he would be happy to see higher weekend usage.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/regular-commuters-win-free-weekend-travel--but-theres-a-catch-20111016-1lr81.html#ixzz1b1VRqNDv

I wonder how much of that $7mil is from nightlink services on Friday and Saturday nights?

But um, last time I checked the spare offpeak capacity is during the week - I know my bus is often full on the weekend!

[Fares_Fair]

I think the old system was close to world's best practice.  RAILBoT has lobbied for change and gotten it.  Will we focus more on services now?

I suspect that this is really just to try and offset the huge backlash that will occur when the fares hike another 15% on 2 January.
I certainly hope that it works to increase off-peak travel significantly (which is a necessity) - but have my doubts.

Agree with that.

The point is, it is not like we have been lobbying against the fare rises, but the fare structure.  We cannot complain having been given what we have asked for.  Perhaps not quite as some would like, but probably better in a lot of ways.  At least it isn't like myki in which the myki pass must be loaded on to the card.

Oops!

All of the Sunshine Coast line commuters I hear of complain of the high costs and do not necessarily care about the structure.
I received an email today from another commuter who has vowed to take to the roads next year rather than put up with 15% fare hikes and unreliable services.
She said that she spent enough time on the trains during her working week so why spend more time on them on weekends.
It's a very common theme for long-haul regular commuters.

It's a case of rotten apples (I think that is your cliche TT).

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[#Metro]

It's a case of rotten apples (I think that is your cliche TT).

Now discounted rotten apples!


I honestly believe that the services should be fixed up. As for the price level--- it is very far to the SC and GC.

[Stillwater]

Gradual change that does not achieve the ultimate outcome, but moves incrementally towards the desired ideal, deserves praise.  Moving politicians towards the ultimate is a bit like potty training for infants -- if they manage to get more poo in the pot than on themselves, we should clap and smile and motivate them to try harder next time.  Hence the recent changes to the fare structure deserve praise, while we continue to turn the screw.  These changes may result in more people travelling off peak and increased patronage, so that would support the need for more investment in rail (in particular) and buses.  That is a good thing.  We must continue to press for more flexibility in the fare structure to maximise patronage.  Nore that the latest Translink Network Plan refers to 'additional seats', but does not have as its focus additional bums on seats.  The latest changes address the bums on seats, which nicely brings the argument back to politicians' potty training.

[Fares_Fair]

"What do we want" ...  "FIX THE SERVICES"
"When do we want it?" ... "NOW, not in 2020" **

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

** Protest cliche used without union permission.  

[Fares_Fair]

Gradual change that does not achieve the ultimate outcome, but moves incrementally towards the desired ideal, deserves praise.  Moving politicians towards the ultimate is a bit like potty training for infants -- if they manage to get more poo in the pot than on themselves, we should clap and smile and motivate them to try harder next time.  Hence the recent changes to the fare structure deserve praise, while we continue to turn the screw.  These changes may result in more people travelling off peak and increased patronage, so that would support the need for more investment in rail (in particular) and buses.  That is a good thing.  We must continue to press for more flexibility in the fare structure to maximise patronage.  Nore that the latest Translink Network Plan refers to 'additional seats', but does not have as its focus additional bums on seats.  The latest changes address the bums on seats, which nicely brings the argument back to politicians' potty training.

Agree SW,

The carrot for off peak transport use is a very good thing and should be applauded.
It's actual impact come January 2 is questionable IMHO, given the 15% fare hikes offset by the new improved 20% off peak discount.
Off peak patronage and making good use of existing services will help improve the bottom line one would hope.

It's hard to get that message across to the 93% of commuters for whom it has no effect.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Gazza]

I think the blog comments confirm my thoughts on weekend discounts. Its not the price that is the problem, it's the service. They can be giving it away for free, and people are outright rejecting it because its not up to scratch.

I think that shows that service improvements should be a priority over fare structure.

[Fares_Fair]

I think the blog comments confirm my thoughts on weekend discounts. Its not the price that is the problem, it's the service. They can be giving it away for free, and people are outright rejecting it because its not up to scratch.

I think that shows that service improvements should be a priority over fare structure.

Hello Gazza,

I see your point, however I think it should be the other way around, given that service improvements will not happen
- at least for Sunshine Coast commuters in the foreseeable future.
Our services are now slower, longer and more expensive.

That just leaves the fares to be fixed as the 'cheaper' option given the lack of infrastructure happening.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

Just like buying anything in the shops -- the buyer weighs up price and quality to get the item that best suits them.  Personally, I would gladly pay the 15 per cent increase in fares from next year IF the government told me what revenue this would raise and how it would be distributed to provide a better level of service.  In other words, people would be happy if they got value for money.  But we have no guarantee of that in the latest Translink Network Plan.  Paying an extra 15 per cent to maintain what we have now seems senseless.

[Gazza]

I think the blog comments confirm my thoughts on weekend discounts. Its not the price that is the problem, it's the service. They can be giving it away for free, and people are outright rejecting it because its not up to scratch.

I think that shows that service improvements should be a priority over fare structure.

Hello Gazza,

I see your point, however I think it should be the other way around, given that service improvements will not happen
- at least for Sunshine Coast commuters in the foreseeable future.
Our services are now slower, longer and more expensive.

That just leaves the fares to be fixed as the 'cheaper' option given the lack of infrastructure happening.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Why should I resign myself to that? TL has the power to go one way or the other, and the choices they face are no different to any other transit authority.
You've said yourself you won't use SC buses on weekends.... So fix the buses! That's cheap too you realise?

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Rail users less than impressed

Rail users less than impressed

Zane Jackson | 18th October 2011

IPSWICH commuters say they would prefer to see annual fare increases kept low instead of a new Go Card incentive that gives regular uses bonus trips.

The State Government announced a plan where rail and bus users who make 10 journeys during a week with a Go Card can take any further trips for free.

For example, an Ipswich resident that makes a return train trip to work every from Monday to Friday can travel free on the weekend to any destination.

The move was spruiked by the State Government as a win for regular public transport users, and commuter groups also backed the changes.

But it is due to begin on January 2 next year, the same day public ticket prices rise by 15%.

Commuters who spoke to The Queensland Times yesterday said they'd prefer fare prices were kept lower instead of having the bonus journeys.

Bundamba resident Courtney Masters, 20, said the 15% increase in tickets each year until 2014 would scare people off regularly using public transport.

"At the moment, it already costs so much to travel," she said.

"It makes it hard to travel as much as you would like to on train.

"I know some people who don't use public transport already because it is getting so expensive."

Coalfalls resident Kathy Jago said she did not think many people would qualify for the bonus trips.

"I don't know if that's going to cover a lot of people," she said.

Robert Dow, from commuter lobby group Rail Back on Track, said while not everyone would be happy with the changes, it is now possible to reduce one's travel costs by being smart and using the incentives for maximum benefit.

His group have long campaigned for Go Card fare improvements and said they hope to see more down the track, but are happy with this bonus journey initiative.

"Full time university students, "learner earners", do multiple daily journeys as a rule," Mr Dow said.

"The free fares after 10 journeys in the week will be of significant benefit to them. An outcome we are grateful for."

But he said it won't be just students who could gain benefit from the bonus trips.

"We believe this is not the 'end of the line' with respect to Go Card fare enhancements," he said.

"Not all will be happy with these initial changes, but as we have suggested it is now possible to reduce one's travel costs."

He said it is important that users understand a journey is a travel leg on a Go Card that is separated by an hour break.

A journey can actually consist of multiple trips if transfers are achieved within an hour.

A TransLink spokesman said the incentive was a cheaper alternative to the traditional weekly paper ticket and rewarded those who take more than 10 trips in a week.

"More than 135,000 customers already take eight or more trips a week and could benefit from the 10-and-free incentive," he said in a statement.

He said their planned fare increases in the coming years will be invested in improving public transport throughout south-east Queensland.

"The fare increase on January 2 will let us roll out an extra 310,000 seats in 2011/12," the spokesman said.

A TransLink spokesman said the incentive was a cheaper alternative to the traditional weekly paper ticket and rewarded those who take more than 10 trips in a week.

  The authorities need to get this very precise or there will be more grief ...

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Fare go: free travel lure not all it seems

Fare go: free travel lure not all it seems
Daniel Hurst
October 18, 2011 - 3:00AM

Brisbane CBD workers who use public transport twice daily will have to take four extra weekend journeys to see any real benefit from the government's new free travel offer.

But a commuter group has predicted some commuters will find ways to make the new fare regime to work to their advantage.

The government has trumpeted its plan to allow Go Card users free travel after they notch up 10 journeys in a week, plus an overall boost to the off-peak discount.
Advertisement: Story continues below

An analysis by brisbanetimes.com.au shows the looming 15 per cent fare rise means commuters who don't change their weekday habits will have to significantly step up their weekend travel to see any real benefit compared with 2011 prices.

However, commuters travelling long distances to get to work could take advantage of the system by making a few extra shorter journeys mid-week to enjoy free travel towards the end of the week.

Go Card users are already entitled to a 50 per cent discount on any travel taken after they rack up 10 journeys in a Monday to Sunday period.

From January 2, this discount on extra travel will be 100 per cent, with the measure resetting each Monday morning. Journeys are counted regardless of how close or far away the destination is.

One "journey" on the Go Card can include multiple connecting trips so long as transfers occur within an hour.

Typical commuter

The brisbanetimes.com.au analysis suggests a typical commuter who continues to make two journeys each weekday will only benefit if he or she then takes four similar-length journeys on the weekend.

For example, a five-day-a-week commuter who travels through two zones to get to and from work will pay $4.70 extra each week from January when the 15 per cent fare hike takes effect.

This 10-journey-a-week commuter, looking to use public transport again on Friday night or over the weekend, would therefore have to take four additional two-zone journeys to come out ahead.

These four off-peak trips would be free, rather than half-price, producing a saving of $5.30 for that travel. But when the extra weekday fares are taken into account, the commuter would have an overall net saving of 60 cents for that week.

Ways to beat the system

However, Robert Dow, from commuter lobby group Rail Back on Track, said commuters could find enterprising ways to benefit from the free-travel-after-10-journeys measure.

He said because the journey distance did not affect the offer, long-haul commuters could opt to take some lunchtime bus trips or after-work local travel to help reach the 10 journey target earlier in the week. Their long commute could then be free before the end of the work week.

"What I think will happen is the Monday to Friday commuter will suddenly realise if they use public transport to get to the local meeting at the library that evening, for example, they rack up another couple of journeys," Mr Dow said.

"[Gold Coast commuters] might suddenly decide that a bus trip down to Pacific Fair is a smart move as it might save them [on their long commute later in the week].

"If they use public transport more often locally as well as the long haul commute the benefits will accrue."

Some commuters who travel a fair way to get to work may also opt to take mid-week lunchtime trips from the city to Roma Street or West End to help reach the 10-journey target, Mr Dow said.

He expected university students would get the most benefit out of the new measure as they tended to make numerous journeys in a day and were likely to reach the threshold for free travel each week.

'Everyone is different'

TransLink acting chief executive Matt Longland said he expected some work commuters would take advantage of extra mid-week lunchtime journeys so they could receive free travel later in the week.

He said others may continue their existing two-journey-per-weekday habit and enjoy free travel anywhere in southeast Queensland on weekends.

"As outlined in your scenario, it would be considered a huge success customers chose to leave their car at home and make four additional journeys in a week, taking advantage of free travel on the growing number of off-peak high-frequency services," Mr Longland said.

"Every person has different travel patterns but it's important to remember that the more you travel the more you benefit."

Acting Premier Andrew Fraser, announcing the free travel incentive alongside Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk on Sunday, said the measure would reward those people who used the network the most.

Asked whether regular work commuters would really be better off given the move would coincide with another 15 per cent hike, Mr Fraser said the offer of free travel after 10 journeys in a week included all destinations.

"If they jumped on the train [in Brisbane] to go to Surfers [Paradise] for a swim they're going to be miles better off," Mr Fraser said.

Mr Longland last night said a person who took 10 two-zone journeys during the week then a return journey to the Gold Coast on the weekend would pay $39.22 this year and $35.80 next year, a saving for the week of $3.42.

Off-peak price hike

On Sunday, Mr Fraser and Ms Palaszczuk also promoted previously-announced plans to increase the discount on off-peak travel from 15 per cent to 20 per cent from this January.

The analysis by brisbanetimes.com.au shows off-peak Go Card fares will rise 8 per cent at this time, because the increase in the discount will only partly offset the broader 15 per cent fare hike.

Off-peak times are 9am to 3.30pm and after 7pm weekdays and any time weekends.

Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson has previously dismissed the government's free travel and off-peak discount announcements as "a con" given the 15 per cent fare hike – the third in three years – was still going ahead.

"Very few people use public transport more than 10 times in a week and those that do are often the ones going to the footy at Suncorp Stadium where the cost of the fare is included in the ticket," he said on Sunday.

The new fares and incentives will come into effect on January 2.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/fare-go-free-travel-lure-not-all-it-seems-20111017-1ltav.html

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

How to beat the fare increases

How to beat the fare increases
Daniel Hurst
October 18, 2011 - 3:00AM

Southeast Queensland public transport fares are due to rise by 15 per cent on January 2, but a new scheme to offer free travel after 10 journeys in any one week will also come into effect.

Here is how the fare increases and new free travel lure will affect you.

The impact on your weekly commute

Workers who travel in peak times to and from work five days a week:

Two zones: Total weekly commute will rise from $31.10 to $35.80, up $4.70

Three zones: Total weekly commute will rise from $36.80 to $42.40, up $5.60

Four zones: Total weekly commute will rise from $41.40 to $47.70, up $6.30

How the free travel lure will work

Go Card users are currently entitled to a 50 per cent discount on any travel taken after they rack up 10 journeys in a Monday to Sunday period.

From January 2, any southeast Queensland travel after 10 journeys in a week will be free. The count resets on Monday morning.

One "journey" on the Go Card can include multiple connecting trips so long as transfers occur within an hour.

How to recoup the fare increases

Option 1:

Maintain your normal 10 journeys a week commute and then gain access to the new free travel offer on Friday night, Saturday and Sunday. Then take four free journeys to come out ahead. For example, if all of the journeys described in this scenario are two-zone journeys, the commuter will be 60 cents better off overall for the week.

Option 2:

Maintain your normal 10 journeys a week commute and then gain access to the new free travel offer over the weekend. Then take a free journey to and from the Gold Coast on Saturday or Sunday to wipe out the fare rise affecting your normal commute.

Option 3:

Because journeys of any distance will be counted towards the 10-journey threshold before travel becomes free, long-distance commuters may opt to take some short lunchtime bus trips or after-work local travel to help reach the target earlier in the week. The long commute journeys could then be free before the end of the work week.

Robert Dow, from Rail Back on Track, believes some commuters will take mid-week lunchtime trips from the city to Roma Street or West End to help reach the 10-journey target sooner.

All figures and details relate to Go Card users. New fares and incentives apply from January 2, 2012.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/how-to-beat-the-fare-increases-20111017-1lteg.html

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

18th October 2011

Go speak, what is a trip, what is a journey?

Greetings,

With the changes announced for the go card fare structure it is very important that the distinction be made between journeys and trips when using a go card.  The free travel kicks in when a user has completed 10 journeys on the go card during the Monday to Sunday period.   To further confuse, under some circumstances a trip can actually be a journey.

Loose terminology with respect to trips and journeys can confuse users as was the experience with the introduction of the two journey daily cap for Seniors and some other concession go card holders.  It is important the everyone understands what a trip is and what a journey is in 'go card speak'.

To assist:

The go card changes mean once the tenth journey in the Monday to Sunday week is achieved on a go card travel then becomes free.  It is important that users understand a journey is a travel leg on a go card that is separated by an hour break.  A journey can actually consist of multiple trips  if transfers are achieved within an hour.   A journey can also be a single trip if that trip is separated by an hour break, between touch off and touch on. A user catching a bus to the rail station, then transferring to the City, has done two trips (one on the bus, one on the train) for a single journey (this assumes that they touched on less than hour between touching off on the bus and touching on at the station - which is the normal case on a commute).  Hope this helps.

(Go card) User guide
http://translink.com.au/resources/tickets-and-fares/go-card/111001-user-guide.pdf

Page 16

What is a transfer?

    A transfer is the act of changing from one service or
    route to another service or route to continue a journey.
    What is a journey?
    Travel between one or more designated stops or
    stations. A journey can include more than one trip.
    What is a trip?
    A part of a journey between designated stops or
    stations. You can have more than one trip in a journey.
    What is a dual zone stop?
    Some bus stops are on the border between two zones
    and are called dual zone stops. For example, Chermside
    interchange is both a zone 3 and a zone 4 stop.

    You can use your go card to travel on a number of
    different TransLink services (train, bus and ferry) during
    one journey.

    Transferring is easy, and your go card will automatically
    calculate one overall fare for your whole journey.
    Remember these simple steps:

    • your journey must continue from within the same zone
    your previous trip ended. If the stop is a dual zone
    stop then you can continue from either zone
    • you should continue your journey by touching on
    within 60 minutes of touching off at the end of your
    previous trip
    • your journey may consist of a total of three transfers
    • the final trip of your journey must commence within
    three and a half hours of the start of your first trip
    • your whole journey must end within a five hour period
    from start to finish to be considered a single journey
    • if you are transferring between QR services and you
    don't leave the station or platform between transfers
    you only need to touch on at the start of your journey
    and touch off to end your journey – you don't need to
    touch off between QR services unless you leave
    the station or platform for any reason.
    That's it! If you follow these simple steps the go card
    reader will display the message 'Continuation of Travel'
    when you touch on at the start of each new trip and you
    will only pay for one journey.

We have also compiled some additional tips for go card users.  See The SMART Go Card User Guide --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5149.0

Best wishes
Robert

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[somebody]

I think the old system was close to world's best practice.  RAILBoT has lobbied for change and gotten it.  Will we focus more on services now?

I suspect that this is really just to try and offset the huge backlash that will occur when the fares hike another 15% on 2 January.
I certainly hope that it works to increase off-peak travel significantly (which is a necessity) - but have my doubts.

Agree with that.

The point is, it is not like we have been lobbying against the fare rises, but the fare structure.  We cannot complain having been given what we have asked for.  Perhaps not quite as some would like, but probably better in a lot of ways.  At least it isn't like myki in which the myki pass must be loaded on to the card.

Oops!

All of the Sunshine Coast line commuters I hear of complain of the high costs and do not necessarily care about the structure.
I received an email today from another commuter who has vowed to take to the roads next year rather than put up with 15% fare hikes and unreliable services.
She said that she spent enough time on the trains during her working week so why spend more time on them on weekends.
It's a very common theme for long-haul regular commuters.

It's a case of rotten apples (I think that is your cliche TT).

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

There's no oops with me.  With the qualification that when I said "we", I meant RAILBoT.

I would be more supportive of the RAILBoT position if we had said "fare policy" rather than "fare structure".  I'm not the only one.

We must continue to press for more flexibility in the fare structure to maximise patronage. 

WTF?  You mean flexibility like the Melbourne system?

What do you mean by these comments?

A TransLink spokesman said the incentive was a cheaper alternative to the traditional weekly paper ticket and rewarded those who take more than 10 trips in a week.

  The authorities need to get this very precise or there will be more grief ...

I think what they mean is that the previous weeklies were priced at 8 single paper tickets, and Go is obviously far better value than this both in 2011 and 2012, for just about everyone.  The week I previously referred to where I clocked up $36.66 in 2 zones over 18 journeys, the weekly would have been $36.80 if priced on the previous basis.

[ozbob]

Fare structure is what is used by TransLink and others eg. Government.  It matters little if it is called fare price, fare policy or fare structure.  It is essentially the same for our purposes.

There are far more pressing issues to worry about than to  get overly concerned with semantics IMHO.  You know, sometimes it is best to just accept some things and move on with the bigger pictures ...

And fares are an important issue to the public, to members, as well as frequency, service coverage, routes, timings, patterns and so forth.

We don't ignore reality.

[ozbob]

Quote from: ozbob on Today at 03:12:52 AM
Quote
A TransLink spokesman said the incentive was a cheaper alternative to the traditional weekly paper ticket and rewarded those who take more than 10 trips in a week.

Wow!  The authorities need to get this very precise or there will be more grief ...
I think what they mean is that the previous weeklies were priced at 8 single paper tickets, and Go is obviously far better value than this both in 2011 and 2012, for just about everyone.  The week I previously referred to where I clocked up $36.66 in 2 zones over 18 journeys, the weekly would have been $36.80 if priced on the previous basis.

I was referring to use of the term 'trips' rather than the prices as such,  but good point you make as well.

[somebody]

Fare structure is what is used by TransLink and others eg. Government.  It matters little if it is called fare price, fare policy or fare structure.  It is essentially the same for our purposes.

There are far more pressing issues to worry about than to  get overly concerned with semantics IMHO.  You know, sometimes it is best to just accept some things and move on with the bigger pictures ...

And fares are an important issue to the public, to members, as well as frequency, service coverage, routes, timings, patterns and so forth.

We don't ignore reality.

I respectfully disagree with that.  The message hasn't been at all clear if you are trying mainly to get cheaper fares.

Note that your following post makes a semantic point.

[ozbob]

The use of trips when journeys is really meant is an important point.  I have spent a long time explaining what the difference is too many, and TransLink themselves have said to me they need to tighten that up.

Cheaper fares is only part of it.  I have been trying to drive increased public transport utilisation by highlighting all factors that contribute to fares, and actually start to turn the fare box slide.  It is just too simple to focus on prices alone, how price integrates into the overall structure is important, but cannot be considered in isolation IMHO.

No worries about disagreeing, life is like that!

[somebody]

Trips was always a poor choice of terms.  Sectors, legs or touch ons would have been better.

I'd like to make the point that there are a number of regular posters here that feel more or less the same as I do regarding fares.

[Fares_Fair]

I'd like to make the point that there are a number of regular posters here that feel more or less the same as I do regarding fares.

1. Agree with you on the terms, I find myself explaining the difference when go card changes are announced. 

2. Yes, but are they the majority ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

Yes, but we are stuck with trips and  journeys for now.

Everyone has their view point fortunately, and they will differ. No big deal.

The important thing now IMHO is to explain how public transport utilisation rates can be improved.  The changes to the go card are not my preferred option, so what?  Doesn't mean I throw the towel in, on the contrary I am doing my utmost to support the community so that they are informed (many have no idea about the current fares let alone the changes).  By being constructive perhaps the we can help influence some further improvements, not only fares but wider issues such as frequency and coverage.

Constant knit picking is not constructive and gets nowhere in the end.  Just tends to turn everyone off.

[somebody]

2. Yes, but are they the majority ?

I think the majority just want a simple structure.  Some think that capping is simple, but unless it is automatically applied then that seems clearly false as far as I can see.

[Stillwater]

Ahhh Grasshopper ... at the core of the rotten apple is the seed for growth and renewal and the rotting flesh provides it with nutriment.  It has the potential to be a strong tree. 

[Gazza]

20% vs 3.6% apparent contradiction is resolved thus:
16.4% of Go Card users do exactly 10 journeys/week.  Thus will not get a benefit unless they do more trips.

A quick question, but if only that many are making more than 8 trips per week, then where's the case for going to the expense of implementing monthlies and above?
People make it out as if heaps of people would use them., but I reckon it would basically be limited to people doing 10 trips as week, since the 'certainty' of travel you'd be doing is needed to justify spending money upfront the pass.

And I don't think it's worth spending money on implantation costs to only benefit a small subset of PT users.

[Fares_Fair]

20% vs 3.6% apparent contradiction is resolved thus:
16.4% of Go Card users do exactly 10 journeys/week.  Thus will not get a benefit unless they do more trips.

A quick question, but if only that many are making more than 8 trips per week, then where's the case for going to the expense of implementing monthlies and above?
People make it out as if heaps of people would use them., but I reckon it would basically be limited to people doing 10 trips as week, since the 'certainty' of travel you'd be doing is needed to justify spending money upfront the pass.

And I don't think it's worth spending money on implantation costs to only benefit a small subset of PT users.

I would dispute that figure of 16.4% for exactly 10 trips.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

I would dispute that figure of 16.4% for exactly 10 trips.

Hmm.  You dispute the 20% for 10 or more, the 3.6% for more than 10 or what?

20% vs 3.6% apparent contradiction is resolved thus:
16.4% of Go Card users do exactly 10 journeys/week.  Thus will not get a benefit unless they do more trips.

A quick question, but if only that many are making more than 8 trips per week, then where's the case for going to the expense of implementing monthlies and above?
People make it out as if heaps of people would use them., but I reckon it would basically be limited to people doing 10 trips as week, since the 'certainty' of travel you'd be doing is needed to justify spending money upfront the pass.

And I don't think it's worth spending money on implantation costs to only benefit a small subset of PT users.

You've quoted my comments, but I presume you know what I think - that we (RAILBoT) have gotten more than what we have asked for.  What's with continued bitching?

We must continue to press for more flexibility in the fare structure to maximise patronage. 

Still confused by these comments.

[Fares_Fair]

I would dispute that only 16.4% of go card journeys are exactly 10 journeys (assuming journeys was meant and not trips, semantics can make all the difference).
I would believe that that figure is much higher, perhaps more like 80% (guess).

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[dwb]

20% vs 3.6% apparent contradiction is resolved thus:
16.4% of Go Card users do exactly 10 journeys/week.  Thus will not get a benefit unless they do more trips.

A quick question, but if only that many are making more than 8 trips per week, then where's the case for going to the expense of implementing monthlies and above?
People make it out as if heaps of people would use them., but I reckon it would basically be limited to people doing 10 trips as week, since the 'certainty' of travel you'd be doing is needed to justify spending money upfront the pass.

And I don't think it's worth spending money on implantation costs to only benefit a small subset of PT users.

Or on top of the weekly 10 then free rule you could add a calendar month 32 (paid) then free... or you could let people opt in to one or the other. Note neither requires paying for the pass unless you use it, as they would both just be caps.

Still, I'm much more in favour of a value set cap, that is chosen by the user in advance.

[dwb]

I would dispute that only 16.4% of go card journeys are exactly 10 journeys (assuming journeys was meant and not trips, semantics can make all the difference).
I would believe that that figure is much higher, perhaps more like 80% (guess).

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

I would disagree, many people (at least travelling less than 6 zones) would likely replace one or two trips here or there even if they're a 'm-f 9-5'er - by bike, lift, walk etc. That is why ten trips were substantially more popular in Brisbane than weeklies (other than being able to buy them at the corner store of course).