Article: Push to force event-goers to pay for public transport

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Push to force event-goers to pay for public transport

Push to force event-goers to pay for public transport

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    September 26, 2011 12:00AM

EVERYONE who goes to a major sporting, music or cultural event in southeast Queensland could soon be required to pay for public transport, whether they use it or not.

Powerful lobby group the Tourism and Transport Forum is pushing for the cost of public transport to be included in the ticket price at all events with crowds of more than 5000.

In a report to be released today, the TTF recommends the Queensland Government introduce mandatory integrated ticketing to the Ekka, and also other major events such as Riverstage concerts and the Big Day Out.

"The unwillingness of some event organisers to support integrated ticketing is not only disadvantaging event-goers but subjecting the broader community to traffic congestion," said TTF chief executive John Lee. "As a last resort, state governments should reserve the right to introduce legislation mandating integrated ticketing for large events."

Currently all Suncorp Stadium and Gabba events include public transport with a pre-purchased ticket and Translink also has arrangements with Skilled Park and Metricon Stadium on the Gold Coast and the Queensland Tennis Centre. But Ekka organisers have resisted because of the added cost, particularly on those who do not use public transport to get to the show.

RNA chief executive Jonathan Tunny said Translink had previously suggested $7 be added to the Ekka entry price.

"The proportion of people coming by train is between 30 and 35 per cent," said Mr Tunny. "Integrated ticketing isn't a solution for us."

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk declined to say if the Government would legislate to force the RNA to introduce integrated ticketing but said it had been a huge success at other venues.

"About 50 per cent of people going to the Gabba and 80 per cent of people going to Suncorp Stadium use public transport while more than 90 per cent of people used public transport to go to the Queensland Tennis Centre for the Brisbane International this year," said Ms Palaszczuk.

She said efforts were being made to "deliver the best public transport outcomes at non-sporting events such as the Ekka".

"Translink and the RNA had a meeting just last week which discussed transport options and possible integrated ticketing, with more meetings planned to discuss next year's Ekka arrangements," Ms Palaszczuk said. "We're also piloting an integrated ticket with QPAC for their current showing of Le Grand Cirque's Adrenaline."

[ozbob]

The Ekka 'wrekka' thread --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5867.0

[Derwan]

"The proportion of people coming by train is between 30 and 35 per cent," said Mr Tunny. "Integrated ticketing isn't a solution for us."

This would be for the Ekka station only!  What about everyone who catches a bus - and all the train travellers who detrain at Fortitude Valley or Bowen Hills to escape the rip-off!  They would all be paying upward of $7 each for public transport.

It makes sense to include it in the entry price.  No queues!

Or is it that the RNA gets a cut of car parking revenue???

[ozbob]

The Ekka management are just not with it. They can of course still continue to offer an admission  only ticket as well as happens elsewhere eg. Melbourne Show.

[somebody]

The Ekka management are just not with it. They can of course still continue to offer an admission  only ticket as well as happens elsewhere eg. Melbourne Show.

I thought the idea was that they wouldn't be able to offer such a ticket.

[ozbob]

Admission only can be brought at the gate, or online etc.  Need to do that for the walk up and those who need to drive etc.  With the major events such as Exhibition of a prolonged duration, options are needed. Melbourne does this as well.  At the rail stations and so forth punters just buy a ticket to the Ekka that includes PT.

[Stillwater]

Maybe the Ekka management would change its mind if it was charged a 'congestion fee' for the inconvenience it causes each year -- the extra cops on the road, the cost of the loop trains through central, fortitude valley, etc. and parking wardens.   Maybe the hospital could charge a 'delay and nuisance' fee for the time imposts on its staff.  The Ekka could be made to see sense ... eventually.

[somebody]

Admission only can be brought at the gate, or online etc.  Need to do that for the walk up and those who need to drive etc.  With the major events such as Exhibition of a prolonged duration, options are needed. Melbourne does this as well.  At the rail stations and so forth punters just buy a ticket to the Ekka that includes PT.

You can't buy such tickets for games at the 'Gabba (excluding Sheffield Shield and Ryobi Cup) or Suncorp AIUI.  I think this is something that is gotten right in Qld.  I thought the proposal (strongly resisted by Ekka) was to bring Ekka into line with this.

[Derwan]

I'd support a fixed price that includes public transport.  This would encourage people to buy their tickets in advance (and reduce queues at the entry) and to take public transport.  (If they're paying for it, they might as well use it.)

I think it defeats the purpose to have a "cheaper entry fee if you drive".

[ozbob]

I'd support a fixed price that includes public transport.  This would encourage people to buy their tickets in advance (and reduce queues at the entry) and to take public transport.  (If they're paying for it, they might as well use it.)

I think it defeats the purpose to have a "cheaper entry fee if you drive".

Some people do need to drive for mobility reasons and so forth.  They pay a premium for parking. The majority will go by public transport, particularly if PT is only $7, cheap as chips.  Part of the intransigence of the RNA is to do with the all or none approach.  With a prolonged event it is a different dynamic than  a one day game and so forth.  No doubt parking revenue has something to do with it IMHO, but they will still get their revenue but importantly the overflow parking and congestion will be relieved

Some compromise is needed on both sides. Hey Melbourne can do it, why not Brisbane?

[ozbob]

Infact I think if the RNA agrees to an integrated ticket option next year, attendance will boom, getting to and from the EKKA will be better for everyone, and it will be the embedded for ever more.

[somebody]

Can't Ekka be "declared" regardless of what the organisers want which would have the same effect as including Public Transport in the ticket price?

It's really Translink intransigence the way I see it.

[STB]

Can't Ekka be "declared" regardless of what the organisers want which would have the same effect as including Public Transport in the ticket price?

It's really Translink intransigence the way I see it.

I suspect that the RNA is protected by a 'Grandfather clause', whereby they have existed before that TTA leglisation came in and so can argue that they can be exempt from that law.  Bit like putting in a law for parking fines and then attempting (but unable) to fine all those people who would've been fined if that legslation had been in place back then.

Happy to be corrected though.

[AnonymouslyBad]

I think it's an idea worthy of discussion. I wouldn't support it exactly as proposed though. What if an event only charges $10 entry? You can't then expect public transport costs to be put on top of such a minimal price. Similarly, a crowd of 5,000 seems a bit small to be forcing events to pay for public transport.

Because of these complexities I'd be wary of any blanket approach. It could be a discouragement to the growth and development of new events and that's not a good thing. The Ekka is an obvious candidate for integrated ticketing, but what else compares? Not much.

The arguments on the flip side are that a) public transport shouldn't need to be free to be attractive, normal price is fine, and b) if an event pulls that big of a crowd, it's in the public interest to provide decent public transport anyway. These arguments kind of have a point.

[O_128]

I think it's an idea worthy of discussion. I wouldn't support it exactly as proposed though. What if an event only charges $10 entry? You can't then expect public transport costs to be put on top of such a minimal price. Similarly, a crowd of 5,000 seems a bit small to be forcing events to pay for public transport.

Because of these complexities I'd be wary of any blanket approach. It could be a discouragement to the growth and development of new events and that's not a good thing. The Ekka is an obvious candidate for integrated ticketing, but what else compares? Not much.

The arguments on the flip side are that a) public transport shouldn't need to be free to be attractive, normal price is fine, and b) if an event pulls that big of a crowd, it's in the public interest to provide decent public transport anyway. These arguments kind of have a point.

The ekka, new years eve, river fire and sporting events are all that needs covering

[Golliwog]

The ekka, new years eve, river fire and sporting events are all that needs covering

What about the QPAC show that is doing it right now? I don't know if its necessary, but that one I think is interesting.

[Derwan]

What about concerts at Boondall?

[somebody]

What about concerts at Boondall?

Ones that are expected to exceed 5000 patrons could be declared, so long as they can argue that TL transport services are likely to be impacted.

[Golliwog]

I would think that TL should only be forcing it when they're going to be providing extra services, and even then, a significant number. The QPAC thing seems to be the idea of the event itself, to attract parents trying to attend with a group of children (the events target audience).

[somebody]

I would think that TL should only be forcing it when they're going to be providing extra services, and even then, a significant number. The QPAC thing seems to be the idea of the event itself, to attract parents trying to attend with a group of children (the events target audience).

I think Ekka meets this criteria!

Can't Ekka be "declared" regardless of what the organisers want which would have the same effect as including Public Transport in the ticket price?

It's really Translink intransigence the way I see it.

I suspect that the RNA is protected by a 'Grandfather clause', whereby they have existed before that TTA leglisation came in and so can argue that they can be exempt from that law.  Bit like putting in a law for parking fines and then attempting (but unable) to fine all those people who would've been fined if that legslation had been in place back then.

Happy to be corrected though.

Didn't see any such provision when I looked up the legislation.  Translink are not obliged to declare any particular event, so it seems that in the cases of Ekka and BEC (Boondall) they use their discretion to not declare.

[AnonymouslyBad]

The ekka, new years eve, river fire and sporting events are all that needs covering

Yeah, so the Ekka pretty much. That's really the one that needs major improvement, with its extra charges for public transport. New Years Eve and Riverfire could make all public transport free, I suppose, but these events are already free and it'd probably be public money anyway. I'm not too worried about them, the public transport is very good as is, and who in their right mind would drive to Riverfire?

What about concerts at Boondall?

Some events there could probably justify free transport. Though I'm not sure if it'd make much difference. Boondall is a terrible location.

[somebody]

The problem with BEC@Boondall is that connecting services aren't available from normal finishing times Sun-Thu.  I can't remember the last time I heard about a special train there actually.

[SurfRail]

The problem with BEC@Boondall is that connecting services aren't available from normal finishing times Sun-Thu.  I can't remember the last time I heard about a special train there actually.

Moreover, it is usually only one when there is something on.  A single 6-car train is about 10% of the venue's usual capacity, and being located on a motorway it is already at a disadvantage modally.

[HappyTrainGuy]

They do run extra trains out that way but they must depart at a certain time as to meet up with connecting services. Not long ago I recall parents kicking up a stink that some concert (Pink or something) went longer than it was supposed to. The special trains departed on time to meet with connecting services. The ones that choosed to stay behind for the extra 35-45 min show and caught the regular city bound train only to find out that there were no other connecting services once they arrived at Central. Some caught taxis as far as to Tweed Heads, staff allowed people to stay/sleept at the station concourse until someone came and picked them up/first service of the day.

Edit: - http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/pink-fans-see-red-over-late-night-rail/story-e6freoof-1225766755508

[somebody]

Yes, I think that was the death knell of the special trains from concerts at Boondall.  I can't remember it happening since.

[Golliwog]

It's all about how involved the event is though. When I went to the Big Day Out on the GC back in 2007, they had a bus set up from one or more of the train stations. At the end of the night they had the same in reverse, but as well they had a number of shuttle buses taking people to some of the further away car parks/other places on the GC. At the station they had a train waiting, which was held back for a while until the last bus arrived, to make sure everyone made it. It was the last train of the night and was running all stops back to Bowen Hills or something, but we knew that and had parked at Yeerongpilly or something. The point is though, it's in the events interests to help get these things set up.

[somebody]

The point is though, it's in the events interests to help get these things set up.

Not in the case of BEC@Boondall.  They would much rather you drive so they can charge $10 for car parking. If you use PT, they might have to pay for more PT.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The same when Indy was on at the Gold Coast (Not sure about now though). Extra all station and express services to and from Brisbane/Gold Coast, Shuttle busses direct to and from multiple train stations, shuttle busses to and from parking lots at the showgrounds, shuttle busses to major interchanges or if you had the money they had chopper shuttles from airports. It was easy to see how the event itself managed to drag 320,000+ people over 4 days each year with the amount of PT running around. Seems its only the BEC and the Ekka that try to shrug off PT.

[Derwan]

Not in the case of BEC@Boondall.  They would much rather you drive so they can charge $10 for car parking. If you use PT, they might have to pay for more PT.

It is always an issue when the venue/organisers utilise car parking as an additional income stream.  The Ekka would be the same.  (I'm guessing they get a cut of the special parking in the area during the Ekka?)

Perhaps the ONLY way forward is to FORCE them to pay for public transport (include it in ticket prices) - considering they won't CHOOSE to do it.

But I agree with others.  If the event price includes public transport, there has to be sufficient transport to cater for potential increase in use - and to get everyone home afterwards!

I don't think QPAC is an issue.  The capacity of the Lyric Theatre is only 2000.

[Golliwog]

Perhaps the ONLY way forward is to FORCE them to pay for public transport (include it in ticket prices) - considering they won't CHOOSE to do it.

But I agree with others.  If the event price includes public transport, there has to be sufficient transport to cater for potential increase in use - and to get everyone home afterwards!

I don't think QPAC is an issue.  The capacity of the Lyric Theatre is only 2000.

I think you're right there. I don't think many people would willingly support something that would cost them income.

I don't think QPAC is an issue either, so it shouldn't be forced. However, I think the circus show that did include PT in the ticket would have got a large number of happy parents coming through that otherwise might not have. How many sessions do they do per week?