Go Card : Alternative Approach

[Gazza]

I did bring this up in another topic, but I think it should be spun off into its own.

I guess I feel that we might have been overthinking part of the GoCard debate, and as with many things, the simplest solution is often the best one.

My idea is.
-Scrap paper tickets.
-Have Go Cards only, sold as cheaply as possible ($1-$2), or free.

This eliminates the need to offer a 'tourist product', and has clear efficiency gains for the network.

With respect to the cost of GoCard, the thing is that IC cards really don't cost much to produce...35c in Melbourne for the cardboard ones, and with the IC itself being the expensive part, a durable plastic card should cost under a dollar to make.

I honestly don't think it is that unreasonable to expect an infrequent user or a tourist to pay $1 or $2 for the first time they use PT in Brisbane ever, if it means the system as a whole runs more efficiently. For a family of four, it's $8 versus the current $20, and they only pay it once.

Does anyone disagree with me?

Is there anybody in Australia who cant afford a one off $2 payment?

Consider it a flagfall, and consider the $1-2 would be paid off in the first trip really.

To get this to work, all buses would need to carry cards, and BT would need to get onboard (excuse the pun) with top ups. The carrot in this case is never having to deal with a bloody paper ticket buyer again, and things could be simplified by having prices in one dollar increments (Since its not like people would do a $12.70 reload, they'd do $10 or $20 etc)
The refund process would need to be simplified, but the labour to deal with refunds comes from the savings of not having an army of people needing to stock rolls of ticket paper and collect coins.

As for the price of cards, I cant put a poll on the topic, but I can see merit in both and want to get opinions on it.

Free
The idea is that the cost of cards gets offset by tourists etc leaving Brisbane and not bothering to refund small balances of 20c or so, which adds up and TL collects interest on.

It's also the most customer friendly option.

The negative point is that people might abuse the system (kids collecting card like lollies so they can throw them at each other, burn them with a lighter etc)

It could also have issues with people being lazy (Forgetting their GoCard, getting a free one on the bus, and doing a topup there and then...Esentially using them like a disposable ticket which is wasteful)

And of course, asking for anything free from the Government is a tough ask.

$1-2
The idea is that its not cost prohibitive, but they do have some value, so people wont needlessly throw them away, or get them for the sake of it (Would rather spend the $2 on a chocolate bar etc)

It sounds 'cheap' as a price level anyway, so little resistance from the public.

Its cost netural to the government, since the cards are being sold above cost price.

What does everyone think? Are $1-2 Go cards a fair compromise for infrequent users and tourists, if it lets us ditch paper tickets?

[Golliwog]

I think so, though that could just be me wanting to get rid of paper tickets. Though I still think it wouldn't be "buying" the go card, but just a deposit so if you didn't want to keep it, you could return it.

[Stillwater]

Putting aside what the card costs, it should have a cost and not be made available free.  I was part of a team once that put together an information brochure, for which we charged $1.  People rang up for copies of the brochure and would order, say, '50 copies'.  When advised the cost was $50, they invariably would change their minds and revise the order down to 25 or 30.  In other words, they ordered the quantity needed.  And they happily paid for them, because people saw the brochure and its content had value much greater than $1.  No one complained about the cost.  For people to respect the go-card, and the system behind it, the card should be provided at a cost.  Of course, there will be some really dumb people who would think a free go-card means that travel is free, or they will lobby for free travel off the back of a 'free' card.  A value on the card itself teaches people respect for the system.  If it was free, there would be people who would operate like ticket scalpers, standing at the airport and offering a go-card they got for free to unsuspecting visitors for $5 or $10 or whatever.  A $2 price, or whatever, would make the card easily available and affordable, while maintaining integrity in the system.

[ozbob]

It is good suggestion Gazza, thanks for raising it.

We can work this up, another option is to consider 'free' tourist go cards with  a flat fare structure as done elsewhere.  This would not incur fixed fares if touches went awry.  A problem for tourists coming and going, particularly with the clumsy refund options not only for fixed fares, but refunds generally so flat fare ticket products for tourists are attractive, particularly when linked up with other admission deals.

As I understand it the direct cost of a go card is less than $1.  Pricing go cards at a much lower level would do away with a lot of the remaining initial user resistance.  Removing paper absolutely would be possible under that scenario.  Those that cannot use a go card can apply for the TransLink access pass.

[dwb]

As noted in other posts I agree with the move towards a no paper system.

I think the cards need the deposit, so cards don't get put into negative and disposed of... as it is the card "cost" just enables the card to approve transactions that would otherwise possibly not have enough balance.

I disagree with the card deposit being the significant issue with 100% take up.... many jurisdictions give away free cards (as did Brisbane) yet still don't reach this allusive 100% take up.

I fully support all bus operators offering a flat $10 or $20 preloaded go card for sale on board buses, and also support all operators being forced to offer top ups (some maximum probably $20 would be required).

I support Bob in identifying a need for a tourist card, and improvements to refund procedures, however I do not think it should be so expensive. I would not want to water down the touch on/touch off logic to the system.... tourist product should still require touch on touch off on both buses and trains.

[somebody]

I support Bob in identifying a need for a tourist card, and improvements to refund procedures, however I do not think it should be so expensive. I would not want to water down the touch on/touch off logic to the system.... tourist product should still require touch on touch off on both buses and trains.

What's the problem with getting a Go Card and then a refund on the way home?

[#Metro]

I like this idea too. You don't need a physically separate card. Just load a pass on to it.

[dwb]

I support Bob in identifying a need for a tourist card, and improvements to refund procedures, however I do not think it should be so expensive. I would not want to water down the touch on/touch off logic to the system.... tourist product should still require touch on touch off on both buses and trains.

What's the problem with getting a Go Card and then a refund on the way home?

I don't see a problem for many tourists using a standard card and standard products, paying a deposit up front and then getting a refund when they leave/return the card.

I do think however that a tourist specific pass/ card would be a valuable thing to research and implement.

[Gazza]

I don't see a problem for many tourists using a standard card and standard products, paying a deposit up front and then getting a refund when they leave/return the card.

Agreed.

I do think however that a tourist specific pass/ card would be a valuable thing to research and implement.

Cant the tourist industry sort this stuff out themselves though?
...Tourist passes, along with thing such as quiet carriages, are "nice to have", but I don't think its really relevant to the majority of PT users in SEQ.

Plus if Melbourne tourists can survive without a special product, then why does Brisbane need it.

One system thanks.

[ozbob]

The Tourist reps in here Brisbane have pushed for a tourist product, modelling has been carried out.  Stand by ...

Melbourne is still in a state of flux with regard to future ticketing options.  There will be moves made similar to what has happened in Brisbane I would expect.

[dwb]

The Tourist reps in here Brisbane have pushed for a tourist product, modelling has been carried out.  Stand by ...

Melbourne is still in a state of flux with regard to future ticketing options.  There will be moves made similar to what has happened in Brisbane I would expect.

Given the members of the TTA board, I'm sure *something* is only a matter of time... actually TL's entire annual report strongly implied major changes coming on Go card... I'm intrigued to find out.. presumable in the January upgrade we'll find out what, in time for an election at some stage?