South Brisbane station closure

[somebody]

How do you mean? If the busway has to get into the inner city then inevitably it will run near existing coridoors.... Either that or spend billions tunneling in a different location???

I think they are referring to the notion of interchange.  In this case, I'm inclined to agree with one proviso: While interchange at Buranda is possible there would need to be an 8/hour frequency at at least one interchange point.  South Brisbane and South Bank train stations adequately cover the equivalent busway stations.  I guess there would need to be something for Mater Hill which is also quite well patronised.

[Derwan]

How do you mean? If the busway has to get into the inner city then inevitably it will run near existing coridoors.... Either that or spend billions tunneling in a different location???

This is a completely different topic - but if we had a half decent frequency on the rail network with improvements to infrastructure as required, they wouldn't have needed the busway there.  They could've built a hub further out and had bus passengers change to rail.  THAT is an itegrated public transport system... not the feeble excuse of a system we have now. ("Oh, ticketing is integrated!  That makes it an integrated public transport system!")

This has been the failure of public transport planning in Brisbane all along - the unrealistic belief that someone can jump on a bus near their house and that bus will take them all the way to their destination without having to change.

[O_128]

How do you mean? If the busway has to get into the inner city then inevitably it will run near existing coridoors.... Either that or spend billions tunneling in a different location???

the original plan would have been woolongabba then bridge but then why not use the existing bridge , I see no problem with it.

[Mr X]

This has been the failure of public transport planning in Brisbane all along - the unrealistic belief that someone can jump on a bus near their house and that bus will take them all the way to their destination without having to change.

Translink's media boasting about "xxx seats to Carindale" and "one seat journey to the CBD express" hasn't helped that issue in the slightest.

[Gazza]

I'm all for interchange, But the south eastern "line" has enough of a catchement and patronage to make it worthwhile to get them all the way to the CBD.... I don't think it would be viable to make an entire lines worth of people interchange..... No more than say terminating trains from Ferny Grove at Bowen Hills, or trains from Kippa Ring at Petrie.

Ignore the mode for a second, if the busway was heavy rail, south bank busway station would be "platfroms 4 & 5", and the ROW itself would be equivalent to the South East "line" being on it's own trackpair. 

[O_128]

I'm all for interchange, But the south eastern "line" has enough of a catchement and patronage to make it worthwhile to get them all the way to the CBD.... I don't think it would be viable to make an entire lines worth of people interchange..... No more than say terminating trains from Ferny Grove at Bowen Hills, or trains from Kippa Ring at Petrie.

Ignore the mode for a second, if the busway was heavy rail, south bank busway station would be "platfroms 4 & 5", and the ROW itself would be equivalent to the South East "line" being on it's own trackpair. 

Exactly bus-bus transfers don't work even when light rail is done we will need direct services to browns plains

[colinw]

I'm all for interchange, But the south eastern "line" has enough of a catchement and patronage to make it worthwhile to get them all the way to the CBD.... I don't think it would be viable to make an entire lines worth of people interchange..... No more than say terminating trains from Ferny Grove at Bowen Hills, or trains from Kippa Ring at Petrie.

Ignore the mode for a second, if the busway was heavy rail, south bank busway station would be "platfroms 4 & 5", and the ROW itself would be equivalent to the South East "line" being on it's own trackpair. 

Exactly bus-bus transfers don't work even when light rail is done we will need direct services to browns plains

... or feeder bus services to Greenbank, Boronia Heights and Browns Plains (Johnson Road) station on the Flagstone line.

[ozbob]

QPAC --> here!

[ozbob]

Queensland Rail --> here!

[somebody]

QPAC --> here!

A bit odd that they didn't think of using a bus from Roma St to the Cultural Centre IMO.

[Golliwog]

QPAC --> here!

A bit odd that they didn't think of using a bus from Roma St to the Cultural Centre IMO.

True, but the 111/222/66 aren't run to meet the trains where as the free shuttle bus will be. I doubt there would be much delay, but it would require people to be aware of all 3 routes.

In other news, https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/NetworkServices/ConstructionUpgrades/CityNetworkStationUpgrades/Documents/QR3951.69%20South%20Brisbane%20station%20flyer_DL_0911_P8.pdf includes a map of the shuttle bus route. Not sure why it runs via Corelia St.

[STB]

Still scratching my head about why they need to throw on a bus when Southbank and South Brisbane stations are within walking distance of a busway station, other than perhaps to cover themselves for those who just simply refuse to use any bus (except rail replacement buses) and might throw up a whinge if QR doesn't provide them with some sort of rail replacement service.

By the looks of the route, I reckon it'll be far faster (even if there's a slight busjam on the busway) to catch any busway service than taking the rail replacement bus.

[SurfRail]

I'll be very annoyed if, as the flyers seem to suggest, only platform 1 is being raised...

[STB]

Ohh, one question... if you are expected to be in a touch on state prior to boarding the rail replacement bus according to the flyer, how in the world are you expected to touch off once you get to South Brisbane?  Are readers going to be supplied on the rail replacement buses?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Most replacment busses that I've been on already have them.

[ozbob]

Hold on a minute,  if you de-train at Southbank one touches off leaving the station.  The shuttle bus (South Brisbane <-> Southbank) is free as I understand it.  If you travel on a normal bus service obviously one touches on normally.

If you attempt to touch off on a bus that you have not touched on when boarding you receive a fixed fare ...

[ozbob]

Ohh, one question... if you are expected to be in a touch on state prior to boarding the rail replacement bus according to the flyer, how in the world are you expected to touch off once you get to South Brisbane?  Are readers going to be supplied on the rail replacement buses?

The flyer states:

' A shuttle bus will be available for customers already travelling on a valid fare ' 

Stupid way of putting it.  What is meant IMHO is the shuttle is for folks actually travelling on the network.  You touch off when leaving Southbank rail and touch on when entering Southbank rail.  No need to touch on the shuttle as such.

[STB]

I asked that question because either A, South Brisbane will be a construction site and I'm assuming the gates will be unavailable (unless they install some temporary readers).  Or B, even if the gates remain, wouldn't there be a high chance that you attempt to touch off on the wrong side of the gate, and thus the gate thinks you are attempting to touch on and are changed a fixed fare assuming you didn't touch off at Southbank.

EDIT: Also if you get off at that extra stop at GOMA (Stanley St), would you even bother to wander down to South Brisbane to touch off?

Something really doesn't sound quite right  :conf.

[ozbob]

The shuttle bus is free!  When a person leaves Southbank they touch off then.  And just board the shuttle, no touching on the shuttle.  Same deal at South Brisbane, just board the bus.  When you enter Southbank then touch on.

They said last week the shuttles are free (with the caveat for those who are actually travelling on the network either after or prior to the shuttle leg).   I don't know how they will check that but one would have to be very desperate to set out to have a 'free shuttle ride' between South Brisbane - Southbank ....

[STB]

Ah okay, well I must admit the flyer doesn't make that completely clear.  And I'm a seasoned traveler!

Customers traveling on go card are reminded to touch on and
touch off at each station and those using paper tickets should
purchase their ticket prior to travel.

[Golliwog]

I'll be very annoyed if, as the flyers seem to suggest, only platform 1 is being raised...

https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/NetworkServices/ConstructionUpgrades/CityNetworkStationUpgrades/Documents/South%20Brisbane%20Station%20Upgrade%20Project%20fact%20sheet%20160911.pdf

Improving access and facilities
The South Brisbane Station Upgrade Project will
improve station facilities, security and comfort
for all our customers. Improvements to disability
access will include:
• a new accessible ticket office window
• raising the height of platform one
• a new accessible toilet.

If you're shutting it down for over a month, why would you only do platform 1?

[ozbob]

Ah okay, well I must admit the flyer doesn't make that completely clear.  And I'm a seasoned traveler!

Customers traveling on go card are reminded to touch on and
touch off at each station and those using paper tickets should
purchase their ticket prior to travel.

They will confuse the punters, not a good effort that flyer.  I will raise it at the CRG tomorrow night and why platforms 2 and 3 are not being raised ... huh??

Another half baked effort by the looks of things,  junk the upgrade if it is not going to be done properly, and upgrade Goodna!  LOLOL

[ozbob]

A QR spokeswoman said they had already started to inform businesses in the area.

"Train services will still be able to travel through the station, and nearby South East Busway services will be supplemented by a free shuttle bus service running between South Bank and South Brisbane stations," she said.

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6711.msg68258#msg68258

[ozbob]

http://translink.com.au/about-translink/what-we-do/infrastructure-projects/south-brisbane-station-upgrade

South Brisbane station upgrade

" ... The station closure will only affect customers wanting to get on or off at South Brisbane station, not those travelling through the station.

If you want to go to South Brisbane station you can either:

   catch your normal train service and touch off at South Bank station, then connect to Queensland Rail's complementary shuttle bus service to South Brisbane station
   catch your normal train service and touch off at Roma Street station, then catch a bus from Roma Street busway station platform 2 to Cultural Centre busway station (a short walk from South Brisbane station) ... "

Raised this last evening and has been clarified.

The shuttle bus is complementary, if travelling on normal buses touch on and off when boarding and leaving the bus as usual.

[ozbob]

Further more with respect to the raising of platforms.  Some of us had been led to believe that all platforms at South Brisbane were to be raised.

Latest advice on the web suggests that only platform one is to be raised. We have asked for further clarification (an immediate response was unable to be given).

http://translink.com.au/about-translink/what-we-do/infrastructure-projects/south-brisbane-station-upgrade

... Improvements to station access will include:

   a new accessible ticket office window
   raising the height of platform one
   a new accessible toilet.

General station improvements will include:

   new electronic passenger information display screens
   additional CCTV security
   refurbishment of existing toilets
   refurbishment of the subway with energy efficient lighting, new cladding, floor and ceiling finishes.

Improvements to preserve the heritage-listed building will include:

   paint removal and restoration of the masonry and facade of the building
   restoration of heritage furniture, fascias and awnings ...

[O_128]

why only raise platform 1?, whats the point of the shutdown?

[ozbob]

why only raise platform 1?, whats the point of the shutdown?

Exactly ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Access to platform one would be blocked along with the concourse blocking access to platforms two and three.

[somebody]

<Devil's advocate>
Platform 1 is used by all PM peak trains, therefore may be a capacity bottleneck, justifying raising.

Platform 2/3 in the AM peak are bifurcated so aren't a bottleneck
</Devil's advocate>

[SurfRail]

<Devil's advocate>
Platform 1 is used by all PM peak trains, therefore may be a capacity bottleneck, justifying raising.

Platform 2/3 in the AM peak are bifurcated so aren't a bottleneck
</Devil's advocate>

Smacks of cheap.  Just the typical botched nature of everything that happens up here of late - I don't think you can rationalise it.

[O_128]

<Devil's advocate>
Platform 1 is used by all PM peak trains, therefore may be a capacity bottleneck, justifying raising.

Platform 2/3 in the AM peak are bifurcated so aren't a bottleneck
</Devil's advocate>

Smacks of cheap.  Just the typical botched nature of everything that happens up here of late - I don't think you can rationalise it.

I would say don't bother doing anything if you can't do it all properly, not to mention a "world class" city station shouldn't have bitumen platforms.

[somebody]

Platform 3 has a slight curve.  I don't know of any raised curved platforms.  However, 2 is straight and could be raised easily, as with the front of 3.  Given that the shutdown provides an opportunity, it should be taken.

[ozbob]

Platform 6 at Central is curved and full height.

[HappyTrainGuy]

There would be major safety problems with raising platform 2 and leaving platform 3 ie steepness and width of the Southbank station end unless something Roma Street esque would be adopted. I'd rather see the third platform moved futher north to enable the raising of the two platforms.

[SurfRail]

There is absolutely no way that the limited platform curvature at the southern end only on platform 3 would prevent a full raising.  For that matter, I can't see how the platforms at Grovely were not fully raised either.  "Humping" is a ridiculous and cheap option that should only be used where a station has serious geometrical issues, not just to save on costs, and doing nothing is even more insulting.

If necessary, surely the separate standard gauge track could just be removed, the platform 3 track converted to dual gauge and slewed to enable the platforms to be widened .  There is no risk of that track being used for anything except XPTs, heritage specials and The Southern Spirit, and their requirements should be subordinated to ours.

Maybe QR is trying to butter its bread on both sides in case the LNP wins government and wants to install a 4th (useless) platform?

[Derwan]

Platform 6 at Central is curved and full height.

Platform 6 is a death trap - with gaps of around 15 cm in some places between platform and carriage.  It's enough for a small child to fall through.

[ozbob]

Has anyone had a problem on 6?  Can't recall any,  but plenty at Indooroopilly and the other Central platforms which are not full height.

It is always a balance between step up height and lateral distance.  Some would suggest that the step ups actually lead to more falls etc.

[SurfRail]

Platform 6 at Central is curved and full height.

Platform 6 is a death trap - with gaps of around 15 cm in some places between platform and carriage.  It's enough for a small child to fall through.

Compared to most Sydney stations (even ruler-straight ones like on the Airport line) it's quite tame.

[somebody]

Platform 6 at Central is curved and full height.

Platform 6 is a death trap - with gaps of around 15 cm in some places between platform and carriage.  It's enough for a small child to fall through.

Compared to most Sydney stations (even ruler-straight ones like on the Airport line) it's quite tame.

Most Sydney stations aren't much better than Indooroopilly, I would say.

[petey3801]

Has anyone had a problem on 6?  Can't recall any,  but plenty at Indooroopilly and the other Central platforms which are not full height.

It is always a balance between step up height and lateral distance.  Some would suggest that the step ups actually lead to more falls etc.

Personally, I prefer a vertical gap over a horizontal gap (depending on how big said gap actually is, at least). At least with a vertical gap, in the unfortunate times when someone does fall, it is extremely difficult for them to fall between the train and platform (would have to be away from the door due to the footplate on all QR electric stock to fall between train and platform in most locations).