Full time express on the Ipswich Line

[somebody]

I think this should be implemented without delay.  Having 4tph Richlands +2tph express Ipswich does not make it any harder than at present for freight.  Might only save about 5 minutes, but that's as good as the reduction in average wait times from a 20 minute frequency.  The truly trivial amount of extra dwell time should make it achievable counter peak also, IMO.

Other than the peak direction, I think a stop at Toowong is a must, as well as Indooroopilly.  Milton I'm less sure about.  Off peak, this station isn't that heavily used in my observations.

This could also be combined with a BUZ 465 to serve Forest Lake.

[O_128]

Cut the Dwelling out and 35 min to ipswich is probably achievable and should be implemented yesterday.

Imagine though had the GC line not been built and it was still 2tph to beenleigh they would still tell up and express service to beenleigh is impossible. Just like replacing the signage was going to take years.

[ozbob]

It is a good suggestion.  The other way is 3 tph out of Richlands and 3tph out of Ipswich.  This changes frequency from 15 minutes to 20 minutes to those stations not on the express pattern between Darra and CBD.  I don't think that it is a major issue because of the overall gains.  Run Richlands through to Petrie.  Caboolture <-> Ipswich every 20 minutes, express Petrie <-> Darra around the clock (with the caveat of some key intermediates and CBD).  Darra, Indooroopilly, Toowong trains every 10 minutes, same Northside ...  now were are getting somewhere.  That would drive patronage, particularly with an improved fare structure.

[Cam]

Such a service can't come quickly enough for me. The 58 minute trip between Central & Ipswich is too long. This equates to an average speed of about 39km/h 

I typically catch a service in the hour before the express services start in the afternoon. My weekly travel time home from work is 5 x 8 minutes (additional travel time of the all stations services) = 40 minutes longer than it should be because there is no full time express service on the Ipswich Line. That's 40 minutes less time I have with my son each week.

The actual stations that should be skipped is debateable but the number should be about 8. Therefore, the travel time to Ipswich could be reduced by about 8 minutes to 50 minutes. Removing the dwell times at stations could easily drop this figure further to about 45 minutes. O_128 suggests 35 minutes. Perhaps 40 minutes travel time could be achieveable by skipping further stations once the Redbank termintaing services are re-introduced. Straightening of curves would further reduce the travel time.

Is it time for a media release on this issue?

[ozbob]

We have raised it a number of times Cam.  I do think that with the phase 2 timetable consultations about to start it would be difficult to get them to do it, but no harm in putting it forward again.

Posting it here is useful as well.  

Fifteen minute frequency is desirable, but probably not achievable right now, hence an incremental improvement to 20 minutes is better than nothing.

[somebody]

Which 8 stations would be skipped?  Oxley-Chelmer is only 5, so you need to skip Taringa, Auchenflower and either Milton or Toowong to meet your requirement.

Counter peak there is DEFINITELY a need to serve both Milton and Toowong.

Fifteen minute frequency is desirable, but probably not achievable right now,

Not achievable politically.

[O_128]

I love the rolling stock excuse, we have what 50 new trains and no off peak gains.

[somebody]

I love the rolling stock excuse, we have what 50 new trains and no off peak gains.

It is believable in peak time.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I love the rolling stock excuse, we have what 50 new trains and no off peak gains.

A few new trains, a couple extra services here, a railway line extension there, alot of refurbs that way, a few broken/damaged trains in for repair and suddenly you realise just how quickly they dissapeared.

edit: IIRC Springfield will be online before the NGR rollingstock rolls out and Kippa Ring would be pretty close to it.

[somebody]

If Springfield comes online before more rollingstock, then aren't we screwed?

[O_128]

If Springfield comes online before more rollingstock, then aren't we screwed?

If Kippa ring comes on before CRR then arent we screwed, O wait 

[Arnz]

If Springfield comes online before more rollingstock, then aren't we screwed?

If Kippa ring comes on before CRR then arent we screwed, O wait  

Kippa Ring doesn't run on the suburbans.  It runs on the mains with Ipswich/Richlands-Springfield/Rosewood/Caboolture/Nambour, so no.

CRR is a capacity boost for those lines running on the suburbans.

[SurfRail]

If Springfield comes online before more rollingstock, then aren't we screwed?

Only need to extend Richlands trains.  The residual issues with the floods are virtually resolved now, and there won't be trains going in for constant refurb.  Just don't expect much more in the peak I suppose.

[O_128]

If Springfield comes online before more rollingstock, then aren't we screwed?

Only need to extend Richlands trains.  The residual issues with the floods are virtually resolved now, and there won't be trains going in for constant refurb.  Just don't expect much more in the peak I suppose.

Pretty sure more capacity than the current amount of Richlands trains will be needed.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The main trains undergoing refurb should all be almost finished/completed in the next couple years as Maryborough/Redbank are sharing the duties.

[somebody]

We have raised it a number of times Cam.  I do think that with the phase 2 timetable consultations about to start it would be difficult to get them to do it, but no harm in putting it forward again.

Posting it here is useful as well.  

Fifteen minute frequency is desirable, but probably not achievable right now, hence an incremental improvement to 20 minutes is better than nothing.

I've done some digging, and most of the times we have raised it, we were talking about counter peak.  We have only raised it as one of a mixed bag of suggested improvements before.  I'm with Cam, I think we should raise this (hence my OP), combined with the excessive fat in the timetable.  There's no point running express if it doesn't result in improved travel times.

The car parking issue in that thread may also give us a reason to throw in BUZ 465.

[ozbob]

It has been raised many times in CRGs and direct meetings as well as media.  No harm in raising it again.

We have constantly raised poor off peak frequency generally.  All lines need improvements.  Ipswich express pattern needs to be linked through to Caboolture express pattern.

Just for interest, go to the media releases board, in the search box type ' Ipswich train frequency '  and see what drops out ...

We have been bashing it since 2006 ...

[somebody]

What about off peak stopping patterns?

[Gazza]

I think Milton should be included....Any area which land use like this I'd consider as significant as Toowong or Indooroopilly. Its not suburbia you'd be skipping.

I'm kind of conflicted on this one. One side says it should be the same express pattern all the time (That goes for the GC line too), the other side feels bad about skipping Toowong.

[O_128]

I think Milton should be included....Any area which land use like this I'd consider as significant as Toowong or Indooroopilly. Its not suburbia you'd be skipping.

I'm kind of conflicted on this one. One side says it should be the same express pattern all the time (That goes for the GC line too), the other side feels bad about skipping Toowong.

sometimes I think express intro to red bank would be better stopping at darra would be a better solution. 2 ipswich, 2 red bank and 2 richlands.

[somebody]

I think Milton should be included....Any area which land use like this I'd consider as significant as Toowong or Indooroopilly. Its not suburbia you'd be skipping.

I'm kind of conflicted on this one. One side says it should be the same express pattern all the time (That goes for the GC line too), the other side feels bad about skipping Toowong.

I think Toowong is more important than Milton in the off peak.  I could live with stopping at both, but I don't think Milton is particularly popular out of peak times.

[Cam]

sometimes I think express intro to red bank would be better stopping at darra would be a better solution.

O_128, would you mind explaining what you mean by this please? I don't understand.

[somebody]

I suppose an issue with this is that these services would no longer meet the 104 @ Corinda.

[O_128]

sometimes I think express intro to red bank would be better stopping at darra would be a better solution.

O_128, would you mind explaining what you mean by this please? I don't understand.

Sorry, was on my phone.

We might be better off for the off peak and counter expresses running the trains express from Redbank to Indro rather than Darra to Milton. There are a lot of people getting on and off Indro to Milton. You can then run 2 express trains to ipswich, 2 all stoppers to Redbank and 2 All stoppers to Richlands. You then also get 6 trains per hour Indro to City.

[somebody]

So what should happen on the north side?
(a) 2tph RCH-PET + 2tph RCH-CAB for a 15 minute frequency to Petrie, but not Caboolture?
(b) 4tph RCH-CAB
(c) 4tph RCH-PET + 2tph express to CAB?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Extend Nambour trains all stations to Petrie then exp to Northgate?

[Cam]

We might be better off for the off peak and counter expresses running the trains express from Redbank to Indro rather than Darra to Milton. There are a lot of people getting on and off Indro to Milton. You can then run 2 express trains to ipswich, 2 all stoppers to Redbank and 2 All stoppers to Richlands. You then also get 6 trains per hour Indro to City.

This is an interesting idea. I tend to agree with the counter peak services stopping all stations between the city & Indooroopilly. If a service is stopping at Milton, Toowong & Indooroopilly then it may as well stop at Auchenflower & Taringa. Many of the 20+ services inbound on the Caboolture Line in the am peak that terminate at Roma Street then run empty to Ipswich. These could stop all stations to Indooroopilly, then express to Redbank & then all stations to Ipswich as you have suggested.

In your proposal, those travelling counter & off peak from Chelmer to Goodna would have to change at Redbank for Ipswich. It could work if a 3-4 minute wait at Redbank could be timetabled for the Ipswich express service then running all stations to Ipswich.

[Gazza]

So what should happen on the north side?
(a) 2tph RCH-PET + 2tph RCH-CAB for a 15 minute frequency to Petrie, but not Caboolture?
(b) 4tph RCH-CAB
(c) 4tph RCH-PET + 2tph express to CAB?

Option C for sure.

[somebody]

We might be better off for the off peak and counter expresses running the trains express from Redbank to Indro rather than Darra to Milton. There are a lot of people getting on and off Indro to Milton. You can then run 2 express trains to ipswich, 2 all stoppers to Redbank and 2 All stoppers to Richlands. You then also get 6 trains per hour Indro to City.

This is an interesting idea. I tend to agree with the counter peak services stopping all stations between the city & Indooroopilly. If a service is stopping at Milton, Toowong & Indooroopilly then it may as well stop at Auchenflower & Taringa. Many of the 20+ services inbound on the Caboolture Line in the am peak that terminate at Roma Street then run empty to Ipswich. These could stop all stations to Indooroopilly, then express to Redbank & then all stations to Ipswich as you have suggested.

In your proposal, those travelling counter & off peak from Chelmer to Goodna would have to change at Redbank for Ipswich. It could work if a 3-4 minute wait at Redbank could be timetabled for the Ipswich express service then running all stations to Ipswich.

There's very little at Taringa (other than tech1) and plenty of buses which could be used instead.  Auchenflower does have the Wesley Hospital, but it seems this doesn't get a huge amount of PT access.  I'm not convinced about this one.  You also have increased rolling stock requirements from adding stops.

So what should happen on the north side?
(a) 2tph RCH-PET + 2tph RCH-CAB for a 15 minute frequency to Petrie, but not Caboolture?
(b) 4tph RCH-CAB
(c) 4tph RCH-PET + 2tph express to CAB?

Option C for sure.

Ideally.  But passing moves would be required to have IPS-CAB on that sort of pattern.  The other option would be Roma St/Bowen Hills starters/terminators.

[O_128]

The expresses go that slow that they may swell stop though

[somebody]

The expresses go that slow that they may swell stop though

One issue at a time.

[ozbob]

Trains to Ipswich out of peak need to stop all stations Darra to Ipswich.  The frequency is just too poor, stations like Goodna, Booval are all relatively good loaders around the clock, and heavy at peak times. Stations like Dinmore and Redbank are good peak loaders.

Keep it simple.

If you had 4 trains per hour out of Richlands then trains to and from Ipswich can run express Darra to town, with some key stops.

I still think that 3 trains per hour out of Ipswich and Caboolture, plus 3 Petrie <-> Richlands would actually work within the present constraints, as a first stage.  Richlands <-> Petrie all stations.  CAB <-> IPS  express Petrie to Darra with key station stops.  Achievable and good gains everywhere, minor increase in off peak wait times Oxley to Milton (15 to 20 minutes).  But the network is more than that section.

[ozbob]

Once you do something like this then the trains north of Caboolture can then be run more like a V/Line service.

Express Brisbane <-> Caboolture, routinely. 

An equivalent in a general sense is the Gippsland Line.  Metro train service to Pakenham.  V/Line services commence Southern Cross ( = 'Roma St'), Flinders Street pass pick up ( ='Central"), Caulfield pass pick up (='Northgate'), Clayton pass pick up (= ' Petrie '), Dandenong (='Caboolture'), Pakenham, then all stations to  Traralgon ='Nambour', and Bairnsdale (='Gympie North" for those that go past Traralgon.

Passengers who are not travelling to or from stations  not past Dandenong are not permitted on VLine services Melbourne to Dandenong.  Seems to work fine.

Passengers not travelling to or from stations north of Caboolture are not permitted on our 'Q/Line' services ....

[O_128]

I still think we should extend caboolture trains to beerwah.

[ozbob]

I still think we should extend caboolture trains to beerwah.

Could well happen, the Gippsland line the metro used to terminate at Dandenong (='Caboolture') and was extended out to Pakenham (='Beerwah') as development proceeded etc.  Likewise Cranbourne (which was the first part of the  old southern Gippsland branch).

[somebody]

Passengers who are not travelling to or from stations  not past Dandenong are not permitted on VLine services Melbourne to Dandenong.  Seems to work fine.

Passengers not travelling to or from stations north of Caboolture are not permitted on our 'Q/Line' services ....

I'd be against this aspect.  Keep it simple.

This is a way in which Sydney gets it quite wrong IMO.  The only route in SEQ which has such restrictions to my knowledge is the P546, and this should be abolished, post haste.

I still think we should extend caboolture trains to beerwah.

Why go so near to the main loading station (Landsborough) and not actually reach it?

[ozbob]

V/Line works well on that basis.  If you don't do that, we just have the continuing problems we have now with the long haul services, overloads and no seats until the shorter haul pax clear out.

We just have a jumble here in SEQ.  There is no real difference between suburban and interurban services.  If you want to improve it for all, the Victoria model is one that is successful and is the way forward.  The long haul commuters would prefer it. 

[somebody]

V/Line works well on that basis.  If you don't do that, we just have the continuing problems we have now with the long haul services, overloads and no seats until the shorter haul pax clear out.

We just have a jumble here in SEQ.  There is no real difference between suburban and interurban services.  If you want to improve it for all, the Victoria model is one that is successful and is the way forward.  The long haul commuters would prefer it. 

Let's assume that you are correct about it being the way forward.  What are you going to do about the all stopping to Northgate?  Fat timetable?

[petey3801]

We might be better off for the off peak and counter expresses running the trains express from Redbank to Indro rather than Darra to Milton. There are a lot of people getting on and off Indro to Milton. You can then run 2 express trains to ipswich, 2 all stoppers to Redbank and 2 All stoppers to Richlands. You then also get 6 trains per hour Indro to City.

This is an interesting idea. I tend to agree with the counter peak services stopping all stations between the city & Indooroopilly. If a service is stopping at Milton, Toowong & Indooroopilly then it may as well stop at Auchenflower & Taringa. Many of the 20+ services inbound on the Caboolture Line in the am peak that terminate at Roma Street then run empty to Ipswich. These could stop all stations to Indooroopilly, then express to Redbank & then all stations to Ipswich as you have suggested.

In your proposal, those travelling counter & off peak from Chelmer to Goodna would have to change at Redbank for Ipswich. It could work if a 3-4 minute wait at Redbank could be timetabled for the Ipswich express service then running all stations to Ipswich.

There's very little at Taringa (other than tech1) and plenty of buses which could be used instead.  Auchenflower does have the Wesley Hospital, but it seems this doesn't get a huge amount of PT access.  I'm not convinced about this one.  You also have increased rolling stock requirements from adding stops.

I think you'd be quite surprised how popular Taringa actually is. It is fairly rare (at any time of the day or night) for there to be noone boarding/alighting at Taringa in the off-peak. Particularly during the day, there can be quite a number of people boarding and alighting there. It is sort of a quiet achiever...

[ozbob]

I am sure this is going to surface in the election campaign.  You improve the infrastructure, signalling and start to run it tighter.   Obviously these things are not going to happen overnight, but the longer term plans need to be established and the system fitted to allow it to happen.  This is what I would do.  CRR might come about, what if it doesn't?

I am always fascinated on visits to Melbourne.  The track is rather shoddy compared to the track around Brisbane (true ...), but the trains just run bang, bang, bang.  Go to Malvern during a morning peak (on the quad Caulfield to South Yarra) and watch the trains ping through.  Why on earth can't we do similar?  OK they have some relief in terms of City loop and many more platforms at Flinders St, but the quad between Corinda and Roma St is hardly working even in the morning peak, the problem is the CBD axis of course.  Transport myopia.  The only short term solution is improve pre and post peak frequencies and use a fare structure to support it.