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Caloundra South

Started by ozbob, September 07, 2011, 18:00:56 PM

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Stillwater

#40
There might be some underpasses and overpasses that Stockland is building, for roads under or over the virtual reality railway line, but that is about it.  Agree that rail to Caloundra should be an objective.  Can you imagine people from Caloundra South driving to Landsborough to catch the train, or even catching a bus there to overcrowd the platform?  Landsborough already is the busiest station on the SCL north of Caboolture.

The master plan shows a station at Caloundra South, but the real problem is where is the next station (Caloundra) is going to go.

Remember the state government was going to find a new site for the Caloundra Airport near White Horse Mountain or in the pine lands south of Caloundra?  Well, it didn't.  It sold the pine plantations to private enterprise as part of the big assets sell-off.  Meanwhile, the SCRC went ahead with planning a major rail/train interchange at the Caloundra Airport site.  This is logical because buses could go from there along the proposed busway corridor north to Kawana and Maroochydore.  To my knowledge, no bit of land has been identified for the Caloundra railway station under the changed circumstances.

Meanwhile, Bellvista Stage 2 (the initial development at Caloundra South) is proceeding directly under the flight path at Caloundra Airport.  Over time, this will lead to residents demanding that the Caloundra Airport be shut down and for the considerable aviation-business there be relocated, probably to the SC Airport.

It is ironic that the state government releases plans for these things, and developers and councils take the government at their word and begin planning according to published timelines, only to discover that what is envisioned is fantasy, or hopelessly delayed.  This results in contingencies, compromise and changes that become remote from the original plan.  Look at the mess that's happened since Mr Lucas first promised rail to Caloundra by 2015.

For all the thought and planning that goes into our so-called 'world class' transport network, fundamental disconnects such as this just fester until they become chronic; and only then are they solved in a less than ideal fashion.

The glossy brochures continue to spout that Queensland is a 'world leader' in transport and land use coordination.  The Brothers Grimm could not have concocted better fairytales.

SurfRail

Quote from: Stillwater on January 08, 2012, 07:53:31 AMRemember the state government was going to find a new site for the Caloundra Airport near White Horse Mountain or in the pine lands south of Caloundra?  Well, it didn't.  It sold the pine plantations to private enterprise as part of the big assets sell-off.  Meanwhile, the SCRC went ahead with planning a major rail/train interchange at the Caloundra Airport site.  This is logical because buses could go from there along the proposed busway corridor north to Kawana and Maroochydore.  To my knowledge, no bit of land has been identified for the Caloundra railway station under the changed circumstances.

As far as I am aware it has just reverted to the old CAMCOS route (ie next stations are at Pelican Waters and the previous Caloundra site which is basically spitting distance from the aerodrome, just not in the centre of a redevelopment).
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Stillwater


Stillwater


Found this:

8.3.3 Caloundra Station
This site on the old refuse dump is well located to capitalise on the future relocation of the Aerodrome.  (Relocation now won't occur.)

Options for the Aerodrome site are broad ranging in terms of type and scale and will need to be carefully
considered by Caloundra City Council and included in Council's Planning Scheme. The site comprises some
130 hectares of prime developable land and therefore has the potential to impact on, and compete with, the
traditional town centre in and around Bulcock Street.

The Caloundra station (see Figure 8.3.2) is planned to be one of the three major stations along the CAMCOS
corridor that will have a park and ride facility.

Caloundra is recognised as a major employment attractor for the Sunshine Coast, as well as an origin
and destination for commuters using the CAMCOS corridor.

ozbob

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

New jobs the centre of attraction

QuoteNew jobs the centre of attraction

Mark Furler | 11th February 2012

DEVELOPMENT giant Stockland has unveiled plans for its 50,000-resident Caloundra South development, saying it will bring 20 new educational facilities, new industries and 20,000 jobs to the region. The plans, to go on public display on Monday, include a regional shopping centre and an enterprise park for new industries.

THE shopping centre will be part of a new town centre, and the enterprise park will provide about 500,000sq m of space for companies expected to be sourced from across Australia and the world.

In an exclusive briefing with the Daily, executives have outlined plans to aggressively target major companies to move to the Sunshine Coast to ensure residents can live and work in the same area.

Health industries associated with the $2 billion Kawana hospital will be targeted first as part of the development which is expected to begin next year once federal environmental approvals are secured.

"The major jobs generator will be our town centre," Stockland's Queensland residential boss Kingsley Andrew said.

It will have about 100,000sq m of space.

Stockland has promised a mix of housing starting from the low $200,000s for a small, two-storey home on a 75-square block centre backing on to parkland through to luxurious $1 million homes.

The development will feature a 200km walking and cycling network and a 440ha environmental precinct in the 2310ha site.

The company has also pledged to plant two million trees, and plants will be re-established as part of what will be the largest urban greenfield development in South-East Queensland.

"Stockland intends for Caloundra South to become a network of interconnected villages around an urban town centre," a statement said.

"There will be an emphasis on sustainability and environmental protection, featuring diverse and affordable housing options as well as strong employment and education opportunities.

"The project has the ability to underpin the medium to long term economic growth and broaden and strengthen the Sunshine Coast's economic base."

Stockland said the project would be built in stages over the next 20 years to cater for just some of the 170,000 people expected to come to the Coast.

The development is broken into four localities and 27 precincts.

The plans include three major employment nodes with the delivery of industry and business areas expected to create jobs early on.

Education plans for the development include a future tertiary or TAFE facility, two public high schools, five public primary schools, eight private schools and four early learning and kindergartens.

The developer also plans to establish one of Australia's largest urban wetland rehabilitation programs.

There will also be extensive vegetation buffers around waterways protecting the Pumicestone Passage.

Major roads will be aligned to maximise views to the Glasshouse Mountains, there will be a new connection to the Bruce Highway and a regional arterial road connecting to Beerwah and Kawana.

The town centre plans also include a major sporting precinct to host major sporting and cultural events.

There are also plans for a People's Place and Central Park alongside the town centre.

The master plan will be on public display from Monday until March 9.

The community is being urged to make written submissions on the plan.

An information centre will be open from Monday to Thursday from 10am to 3pm at 87b Bulcock Street in Caloundra.

There will also be displays in communities at Beerwah, Landsborough, Caloundra West and Sippy Downs.

For further information, go to stocklandcaloundrasouth.com.au

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Fares_Fair

Article: Development needs federal approval
Sunshine Coast Daily
by Bill Hoffman | 14th February 2012

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2012/02/14/cal-south-must-wait-for-federal-approval/

Quote
PLANNING for the massive Caloundra South development should be halted until it was considered by the Federal Government under the same Act that halted the Traveston Crossing Dam, it has been claimed.

Resident association umbrella group OSCAR has described the approval process now under way through the State Government's Urban Land Development Authority as premature and said the government had appeared to learn nothing from the Traveston debacle.

OSCAR president Ian Christesen said the Federal Government had only recently started to consider the proposed development under its Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act and required a comprehensive assessment so that issues of national significance could be examined.

"Stockland have yet to submit any detail to the Federal Government," Mr Christesen said.

"The application could be refused, as it did with Traveston Crossing dam, or limitations and conditions placed on the development."

OSCAR has called on Planning Minister Paul Lucas to halt the masterplan approval process until the Federal Government announces its decision.

The Urban Land Development Authority has begun a 20-day public consultation period before issuing approval of the development.

Mr Lucas said that "as has always been the case, any approval given by the ULDA cannot override the Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Act".

"No future development can proceed without EPBC approvals," he said.

OSCAR said that the extent of documentation and complexity of issues was beyond the technical expertise of community-based groups to properly examine the application.

"The masterplan comprises more than 200 pages of planning documents, 14 technical reports and 12 ULDA Guidelines covering topics as diverse as water quality, open space, traffic and transport, sewerage, economic development, commercial and industrial land," Mr Christesen said.

Regards,
Fares_Fair


ozbob

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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#Metro

This is the vision so far. I can spot a few problems already. Can you?
Muffin for comments --->  :mu:


http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/tramtrain/caloundra_south.jpg
Urban Land Development Authority, Queensland Government
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Jonno

Something around the transit and major centre being on the edge of the development and environmental zone plus the rail line being 15 to 20 years away

Fares_Fair

this is one well earned  :mu: for Jonno.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Jonno

Quote from: Fares_Fair on May 12, 2012, 18:48:29 PM
this is one well earned  :mu: for Jonno.

Can I eat it all at once?  :-)

SurfRail

Apart from rail happening later than everything else, it doesn't actually look that bad topographically.

It won't be dense enough, and won't have enough local employment or education, despite whatever they spruik.  Those are the big problems (behind the "proposed" rail line). 
Ride the G:

Fares_Fair

Quote from: Stillwater on January 07, 2012, 23:41:26 PM
From the Master Plan documentation, FF:

It makes sweeping statements about a sustainable and connected community of 50,000, but when one delves down into the detail, this is the actual reality:

-   (90% of all dwellings should be within 400 metres of a potential public transport service)

-   the delivery of a future rail line which follows the protected corridor and is integrated into the urban fabric.

(from page 13 of the development scheme document)

How can one actually deliver today a future railway line?

So, what is being delivered?  A bus service just an easy walk from new houses?  No, look at what is being said.  There will be a sort of 'virtual reality', or 'potential' transport service made available.

And, as for CAMCOS?  Will it be there?  Yes, eventually.  What's being planned ATM is a 'protected corridor' for an eventual train line linking Beerwah and Maroochydore.  In other words, you will be able to stroll along an embankment, or a foundation where a new train could run and dream about fast transport to Brisbane and the proposed new Maroochydore town centre.

Stockland is creating the problem (creating a housing estate for 50,000 people in need of transport.  All Queensland taxpayers will meet the cost of solution (buses and railway line/station servicing Caloundra South).

A classic example of how NOT to provide services to a burgeoning, high growth region.
Springfield anyone?
Regards,
Fares_Fair


#Metro

Quote
A classic example of how NOT to provide services to a burgeoning, high growth region.
Springfield anyone?

I think it is necessary this way. Rail costs $100 - $200 million PER KILOMETRE, you do not build that stuff out into low density unless you have a decent feeder network and can get say 1000-2000 persons per day using the station. Buses on roads will have to do, but the road geometry is a bit off already. The major centres need to be on the main arterial and the train station needs to be moved further west so that it is near the road and so the buses don't have to deviate to get to it.

And just remember, safari services will meet the coverage criteria - they should make the access distance wider 500-700 meters and have a speed/patronage criteria instead.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Fares_Fair

Quote from: tramtrain on May 13, 2012, 21:43:40 PM
Quote
A classic example of how NOT to provide services to a burgeoning, high growth region.
Springfield anyone?

I think it is necessary this way. Rail costs $100 - $200 million PER KILOMETRE, you do not build that stuff out into low density unless you have a decent feeder network and can get say 1000-2000 persons per day using the station. Buses on roads will have to do, but the road geometry is a bit off already. The major centres need to be on the main arterial and the train station needs to be moved further west so that it is near the road and so the buses don't have to deviate to get to it.

And just remember, safari services will meet the coverage criteria - they should make the access distance wider 500-700 meters and have a speed/patronage criteria instead.

Note your points TT,

Only point I would add is your costs shown for rail are way too high.
The Landsborough to Nambour duplication cost of $1.7 billion for 22 km works out at $77.3 million per kilometre.
This includes 2 tunnels and lots of aerial rail on pylons.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


petey3801

Quote from: Fares_Fair on May 13, 2012, 21:49:30 PM
Quote from: tramtrain on May 13, 2012, 21:43:40 PM
Quote
A classic example of how NOT to provide services to a burgeoning, high growth region.
Springfield anyone?

I think it is necessary this way. Rail costs $100 - $200 million PER KILOMETRE, you do not build that stuff out into low density unless you have a decent feeder network and can get say 1000-2000 persons per day using the station. Buses on roads will have to do, but the road geometry is a bit off already. The major centres need to be on the main arterial and the train station needs to be moved further west so that it is near the road and so the buses don't have to deviate to get to it.

And just remember, safari services will meet the coverage criteria - they should make the access distance wider 500-700 meters and have a speed/patronage criteria instead.

Note your points TT,

Only point I would add is your costs shown for rail are way too high.
The Landsborough to Nambour duplication cost of $1.7 billion for 22 km works out at $77.3 million per kilometre.
This includes 2 tunnels and lots of aerial rail on pylons.

Also, the Richlands-Springfield line is costing $475m(?) for 9 or 10km or so, incluuding 2 stations and a 900m bridge (plus a few other small bridges), equating to around the $50m/km mark. Still way too expensive compared to what it should be though!
All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect those held by my employer.

HappyTrainGuy

Springfield includes some of the the motorway works IIRC.

petey3801

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on May 13, 2012, 23:30:16 PM
Springfield includes some of the the motorway works IIRC.

Yeah, they'll be doing minor works, but not very much in regards to the Motorway. Certainly nothing like the Ipswich/Cent Interchange - Logan Interchange.
All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect those held by my employer.

Fares_Fair

Lets hope that a suitably frequent bus system is put into place, since there appears to be no substance to any other transport requirements for this imposed new centre.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


#Metro

I would actually like to see separated cycle lanes and dedicated bus lanes as standard in new developments.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Arnz

I would hope the "PT" for Caloundra South is not a "lazy extension" of the Route 603. 

It'll need to be new route acting like a direct "trunk" route (every 15 or 30 mins) and not going into side streets.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

HappyTrainGuy

Quote from: Arnz on May 14, 2012, 14:00:57 PM
I would hope the "PT" for Caloundra South is not a "lazy exte

603 EXTENSION IT IS!  :-r

Fares_Fair

@Arnz.
That's a worthwhile question to ask ...  :-t
Regards,
Fares_Fair


SurfRail

The Council wishlist I can remember reading was for the following to be HFP (or what we would call core frequent) routes:

- Caloundra to Maroochydore (current 600 modified as required to use the CoastConnect corridor)
- Caloundra to Maroochydore via Kawan (current 601, which may or may not be an express)
- Maroochydore to Nambour (current 610)
- Maroochydore to Noosa (current 620)

There may have been a Maroochydore to Sippy Downs/Palmview route as well.

I think one of the Caloundra routes was meant to extend to Caloundra South when it was built.
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Stillwater

No CoastConnect busway in place, and (like most things transport on the Sunny Coast) has been delayed at least a year.

Arnz

I do recall SCC echoing our words in regards to the Sunshine Coast CFN bus routes.

600 (Sunshine Plaza to Caloundra), 610 (Nambour to Kawana via Maroochydore), 616 (Sippy Downs via Buderim and University) and 620 (Sunshine Plaza to Noosa)

I would also recommend a 626/627 merger and reworking the TT to form 15 min frequency on this corridor as part of the CFN (both routes mostly share the same corridor except for start and terminus).  The Tewantin end of the route could be fixed easily, meanwhile on the eastern end, the merged 626/627 terminus would easily be Sunrise Beach (currently 30 min frequency).

Sunshine Beach (627 terminus) could probably be tacked onto the 628 or 629 instead.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair


ozbob

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Stillwater

The takeover of this project by the ULDA resulted in what the SCRC estimates is a $600 million impost on ratepayers outside the Caloundra South footprint for services to be provided there (sewerage, impact of residents on arterial roads, sporting facilities etc).  Stocklands is anxious to get the project up and running because it is planning a huge town centre and retail precinct that has the potential to rival the council's plans for a Maroochydore SC city centre, to be developed on the old Horton Park golf course.  Neither site will be served adequately by good public transport.  CAMCOS rail remains a mirage.

ozbob

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PollyWouldLikeASeat

So the artists impression picture, is that how you are supposed to make a swampy flood plain attractive to potential home buyers?

ozbob

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Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair


Stillwater


'Caloundra South is only the working title. Stockland is expected to announce a new name.'  How about Swampville?

ozbob

Quote from: Stillwater on June 11, 2013, 16:22:45 PM

'Caloundra South is only the working title. Stockland is expected to announce a new name.'  How about Swampville?

It is a very Queensland thing to do ...

For many years when we first settled at Darra, the girls and I used to visit the dairy farm at 17 Mile Rocks and observe the paddocks along the river and adjacent areas.  There were very good reasons why the Dairy farm was still there up to the early 2000 or thereabouts.  The whole area is a massive flood plain.   However, developmental pressure and sloppy town planning allowed new fields of boxes of ticky tacky, and of course they all went swimming in 2011.  And no doubt will go swimming again ...

Is the Caloundra South another example of money coming first?

Something inside suggests that Swampville is not going to end well either ...
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ozbob

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Newman in Caloundra South land reversal

QuoteTHE State Government's insistence that a huge parcel of land next to the Bruce Hwy be included in the new Sunshine Coast plan as potential future residential development is at odds with the views expressed by Campbell Newman when he headed the South East Queensland Council of Mayors.

Deputy Premier Jeff Seeney has written to council signing off on its new planning scheme, but requiring that 1400ha south of Caloundra South be included as an investigation area for potential future urban development.

The council unsuccessfully fought the inclusion of the area, owned by Stockland, in the Bligh Government's 2009 revision of the SEQ Regional Plan.

Its position was backed by Mr Newman who was then mayor of Brisbane and chairman of the SEQ Council of Mayors.

"The mayors' submission makes it clear that we cannot support unchecked urban sprawl, and we support the concept of an urban footprint. Protecting inter-urban breaks, such as those between Sunshine Coast and Caboolture is crucial," he said at the time.

"No one wants to see a 400km long continuous urban area in south-east Queensland."

Sunshine Coast Council sought to protect the region from that outcome by restricting development on its southern fringe to the 50,000 population Caloundra South development.

Mr Seeney instead wants the 1400ha Caloundra South (Halls Creek) area to be subject to further planning ass

essment to determine whether the site is suitable for future development.

It is a position completely at odds with that supported by Mr Newman when head of the Council of Mayors.

That policy called for "an emphasis on the importance of maintaining inter-urban breaks, in particular, the policy of protecting inter-urban breaks from incompatible land uses and activities and maintaining and enhancing their functions in separating and framing major urban areas and towns, defining the character of regional communities and providing a potential source of accessible regional open space".

As head of the Council of Mayors Mr Newman expressed his disgust at the Bligh Government's decision in October 2010 to wrest planning control of Caloundra South from the Coast council. "Residents are being denied a say in the big debates about the future shape of their communities," Mr Newman said.

After securing office in 2012, the Newman Government signed off on approval of Caloundra South under the Urban Land Development Authority.

However, it has since disbanded the organisation.

Sunshine Coast Council remains locked in negotiations over a potential shortfall of $500 million in infrastructure to support the mega development.
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Fares_Fair

Could we sell Clayfield (Mr Nicholl's seat) to pay for it?   :D
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Stillwater

$500m shortfall.  :fp:  No CAMCOS, no SCL duplication until 2039, if then.  :fp:  :fp:

Hello!  :yikes:  :steam:  :conf


ozbob

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