The Sunshine Coast Case : Rail duplication Beerburrum to Nambour

[BrizCommuter]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.
Yes, more trains can be ordered, but will they? Will SE Queensland's chronic rolling stock shortage continue.

[Arnz]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.
Yes, more trains can be ordered, but will they? Will SE Queensland's chronic rolling stock shortage continue.

Not all EMUs will be replaced from reading the sources in this forum.

The NGR are fixed 6-car units, freeing up 3-car units for less busier off-peak lines, ie Doomben, Rosewood and Sunshine Coast, and maybe filling in the gaps on short-workings on the longer suburban lines during school-pick up hours.

Moving from 6-car 90 min services to 3-car 60 min (hourly) services (with some 6-car services to/from Nambour during peak continue to be through-routed to Ipswich and/or Springfield for better utilisation of the 6-car fleet) would mean the older IMU100/120/160 units will remain the primary units on the SCL, though it would mean better utilisation of the fleet by sending the 6-car units to other lines where its needed during off-peak.

[Stillwater]

Beerburrum-Landsborough track duplication was planned in the days of the ALP Government, with construction due to start in 2010.  It didn't happen.

Details: Beerburrum to Landsborough Rail Duplication - 17 km, $300m, 11 bridges, numerous retaining walls and station buildings.  *Note the anticipated project cost ($300m as opposed to $532m today).

Some background: http://www.cmnzl.co.nz/assets/sm/3783/61/TrackstarAlliancePaper-McNeil.pdf

[Fares_Fair]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.
Yes, more trains can be ordered, but will they? Will SE Queensland's chronic rolling stock shortage continue.

Not all EMUs will be replaced from reading the sources in this forum.

The NGR are fixed 6-car units, freeing up 3-car units for less busier off-peak lines, ie Doomben, Rosewood and Sunshine Coast, and maybe filling in the gaps on short-workings on the longer suburban lines during school-pick up hours.

Moving from 6-car 90 min services to 3-car 60 min (hourly) services (with some 6-car services to/from Nambour during peak continue to be through-routed to Ipswich and/or Springfield for better utilisation of the 6-car fleet) would mean the older IMU100/120/160 units will remain the primary units on the SCL, though it would mean better utilisation of the fleet by sending the 6-car units to other lines where its needed during off-peak.

The new stabling facility proposed to be built at Woombye (site is immediately adjacent to future duplicated line) is specifically designed to house/service the NG Rollingstock.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.
Yes, more trains can be ordered, but will they? Will SE Queensland's chronic rolling stock shortage continue.

I think youre overestimating the amount of rollingstock and service patterns needed. If this actually does go ahead by the time its up and running I would not be surprised to eventually see Ipswich-Caboolture trains become express Ipswich-Landsborough services on a 2tph frequency with the deletion of all off peak direct Nambour services (excluding Gympie North services should they be retained). Nambour will become a off peak shuttle more than likely done with a 3 car service. Kippa Ring-Springfield will be 4tph all stoppers taking up the bulk running. The NGR project will not be replacing any EMUs until they have finished their initial order which is something like an additional 30x 6 car units. Once that has been done the EMUs will be phased out as each new NGR unit is accepted by QR. That's also dependant on stabling facilities which are in the pipeline at Banyo, Thornside?, Kippa Ring, Woombye and a few other proposed locations.

[Fares_Fair]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.
Yes, more trains can be ordered, but will they? Will SE Queensland's chronic rolling stock shortage continue.

I think youre overestimating the amount of rollingstock and service patterns needed. If this actually does go ahead by the time its up and running I would not be surprised to eventually see Ipswich-Caboolture trains become express Ipswich-Landsborough services on a 2tph frequency with the deletion of all off peak direct Nambour services (excluding Gympie North services should they be retained). Nambour will become a off peak shuttle more than likely done with a 3 car service. Kippa Ring-Springfield will be 4tph all stoppers taking up the bulk running. The NGR project will not be replacing any EMUs until they have finished their initial order which is something like an additional 30x 6 car units. Once that has been done the EMUs will be phased out as each new NGR unit is accepted by QR. That's also dependant on stabling facilities which are in the pipeline at Banyo, Thornside?,  Robina, Kippa Ring, Woombye and a few other proposed locations.

Stabling sites are:
So far, four sites have been confirmed to progress to the next
stage of development:
• Robina – expansion of existing facility (Gold Coast Line)
• Banyo (Shorncliffe Line)
• Elimbah (North Coast Line)
• Woombye (North Coast Line).
Sites still being considered and under further investigation
include:
• Rosewood (Ipswich Line)
• Thorneside (Cleveland Line)
• Ormeau (Gold Coast Line)
• Varsity Lakes (Gold Coast Line).

Source: DTMR South-East Queensland Rail Stabling Program
SEQRailStablingProgramFactSheet.PDF

[Arnz]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.
Yes, more trains can be ordered, but will they? Will SE Queensland's chronic rolling stock shortage continue.

I think youre overestimating the amount of rollingstock and service patterns needed. If this actually does go ahead by the time its up and running I would not be surprised to eventually see Ipswich-Caboolture trains become express Ipswich-Landsborough services on a 2tph frequency with the deletion of all off peak direct Nambour services (excluding Gympie North services should they be retained). Nambour will become a off peak shuttle more than likely done with a 3 car service. Kippa Ring-Springfield will be 4tph all stoppers taking up the bulk running. The NGR project will not be replacing any EMUs until they have finished their initial order which is something like an additional 30x 6 car units. Once that has been done the EMUs will be phased out as each new NGR unit is accepted by QR. That's also dependant on stabling facilities which are in the pipeline at Banyo, Thornside?, Kippa Ring, Woombye and a few other proposed locations.

That would make sense, however toilet requirements would mean NGR/IMUs would have to be the primary units on the Ipswich-Landsborough corridor.  Assuming they keep the Double Daily Gympie North directs (no increase in services) and they rid themselves of the ICEs eventually, a 6-car IMU100/120 would be enough for the Gympielander.

I would assume the express patterns would be All stations to Darra - Indooroopilly- Milton - All City stations to Bowen Hills - Eagle Junction - Northgate - Petrie then all to Landsborough & v.v

Or in long-winded terms.  Express from Darra to Milton, stopping only at Indooroopilly, then stopping all city stations, then express from Bowen Hills to Petrie, stopping only at Eagle Junction and Northgate. 

With Shorncliffe/Doomben/Airport and/or Kippa Ring picking up the slack for Bowen Hills to Northgate in off-peak.

[aldonius]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.

How on earth do you make that calculation? The NGR order is 75 6 car trains  (total 450 cars);  there are 87 EMUs (all 3 car) still in service (total 261 cars). It's technically a net reduction in independent train sets, but most EMUs are run coupled, many of them permanently, so in practice it's a net increase.


Edit: hmm, I suppose it really does depend on the  proportion of single to double EMUs. Suppose 2/3 of them are usually run coupled that's still about 60 services can be formed (and only 15 'extra trains').

[HappyTrainGuy]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.
Yes, more trains can be ordered, but will they? Will SE Queensland's chronic rolling stock shortage continue.

I think youre overestimating the amount of rollingstock and service patterns needed. If this actually does go ahead by the time its up and running I would not be surprised to eventually see Ipswich-Caboolture trains become express Ipswich-Landsborough services on a 2tph frequency with the deletion of all off peak direct Nambour services (excluding Gympie North services should they be retained). Nambour will become a off peak shuttle more than likely done with a 3 car service. Kippa Ring-Springfield will be 4tph all stoppers taking up the bulk running. The NGR project will not be replacing any EMUs until they have finished their initial order which is something like an additional 30x 6 car units. Once that has been done the EMUs will be phased out as each new NGR unit is accepted by QR. That's also dependant on stabling facilities which are in the pipeline at Banyo, Thornside?, Kippa Ring, Woombye and a few other proposed locations.

That would make sense, however toilet requirements would mean NGR/IMUs would have to be the primary units on the Ipswich-Landsborough corridor.  Assuming they keep the Double Daily Gympie North directs (no increase in services) and they rid themselves of the ICEs eventually, a 6-car IMU100/120 would be enough for the Gympielander.

I would assume the express patterns would be All stations to Darra - Indooroopilly- Milton - All City stations to Bowen Hills - Eagle Junction - Northgate - Petrie then all to Landsborough & v.v

Or in long-winded terms.  Express from Darra to Milton, stopping only at Indooroopilly, then stopping all city stations, then express from Bowen Hills to Petrie, stopping only at Eagle Junction and Northgate. 

With Shorncliffe/Doomben/Airport and/or Kippa Ring picking up the slack for Bowen Hills to Northgate in off-peak.

EMUs and SMU200/220 wouldn't be ideally used anyway due to the 140kph running north of Caboolture.

[Stillwater]

How does this fit into today's announcement about duplication from Beerburrum-Landsborough?

"The ARTC has been conducting investigations into ways of integrating Australia's national rail network with Queensland's regional network. The review is split into two phases – an initial exploratory phase followed by a due diligence process."

http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/aboutus/mediacentre/pages/regionalnetworkartcreview.aspx

And this:

"Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss and Queensland Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson today met with the Federal Government's Australian Rail Track Corporation (ARTC) in Canberra to kickstart an investigation into expanding the ARTC's 8500km national network."

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2014/2/25/joint-statement-artc-to-investigate-incorporating-queensland-into-the-national-rail-network

Extract from the Halls Creek Community Forum minutes, dated 3 July 2014.

Rail infrastructure: "State Government representatives indicated to be well aware of the issue. Their current priority is to get the railway duplication to Nambour committed and funded, a timeline for duplication up to Landsborough will be released in the next 6 months."

Full report: http://www.scec.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Halls-Creek-Forum-Report.pdf

Mention made of announcement due 3 January 2015, not made.

Given what HTG said above about possibility of off-peak shuttles to Nambour, the re-examination of the Beerwah-Caloundra alignment through land that Stockland controls and the ARTC negotiations, I can't help but think that today's announcement is part of a bigger picture, not disclosed to us.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I still find it amusing that just a few years ago Queensland Rail was being paid millions by the ARTC for rail infrastructure MTCE contracts.

[BrizCommuter]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.

How on earth do you make that calculation? The NGR order is 75 6 car trains  (total 450 cars);  there are 87 EMUs (all 3 car) still in service (total 261 cars). It's technically a net reduction in independent train sets, but most EMUs are run coupled, many of them permanently, so in practice it's a net increase.


Edit: hmm, I suppose it really does depend on the  proportion of single to double EMUs. Suppose 2/3 of them are usually run coupled that's still about 60 services can be formed (and only 15 'extra trains').

Add up all of the gaps in the current peak timetables due to lack of trains (of which there are quite a lot), converting existing 3 car peak services to 6 car, then add requirements for MBRL, then minus 43.5 6-car equivalent EMUs and the ICEs = not many of the 75 6-car NGR trains remaining!

[Arnz]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.

How on earth do you make that calculation? The NGR order is 75 6 car trains  (total 450 cars);  there are 87 EMUs (all 3 car) still in service (total 261 cars). It's technically a net reduction in independent train sets, but most EMUs are run coupled, many of them permanently, so in practice it's a net increase.


Edit: hmm, I suppose it really does depend on the  proportion of single to double EMUs. Suppose 2/3 of them are usually run coupled that's still about 60 services can be formed (and only 15 'extra trains').

Add up all of the gaps in the current peak timetables due to lack of trains (of which there are quite a lot), converting existing 3 car peak services to 6 car, then add requirements for MBRL, then minus 43.5 6-car equivalent EMUs and the ICEs = not many of the 75 6-car NGR trains remaining!

Not all of the EMUs are being phased out, some are still around for a long while yet.

[ozbob]

First real positive committment for Qld Votes for public transport (freight benefits too of course).  The ball is in the other parties/candidates court now.

Years of work by FF and others now see this track amplification from Beerburrum to Landsborough brought back to life.  The good thing about this project is the detailed planning is in place and when the LNP say it will start immediately if they are elected, I believe them.

There will be sector one timetable changes when MBRL is complete.  I expect a permanent express pattern on the Ipswich - Caboolture corridor and eventually Caboolture trains extended to Landsborough.  Trains will operate as shuttles between Landsborough - Nambour - with some extended to Gympie North is my guess.  During peaks I expect direct services extended to Nambour.

For the record: 2006 this statement!

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2006/8/14/the-green-light-for-beerburrum-to-landsborough-rail-corridor

Media Statements
Minister for Transport & Main Roads
The Honourable Paul Lucas
Monday, August 14, 2006

The green light for Beerburrum to Landsborough rail corridor

Minister for Transport and Main Roads Paul Lucas said today that plans had been approved for a new rail corridor between Beerburrum and Landsborough.

Mr Lucas said that commuters were now a step closer to a high speed rail service between Brisbane, Caloundra and Maroochydore.

"Construction of the $550 million rail corridor is expected to start in early 2009 and be completed by mid-2012," the Minister told State Parliament today.

"This reconfirms the draft corridor announced in August 2005," he said.

"We went out and spoke to the community and took their feedback on board by making some minor changes to come up with the best solution for the community and the environment," Mr Lucas said.

The Minister said today's announcement built on the $240 million Caboolture to Beerburrum project.

Caboolture to Beerburrum

·completed planning study and community consultation to determine corridor alignment

·completed ecological surveys

·finalised land acquisition package

·started detailed design work to enable early construction work

·construction to start mid 2007 – work will include realigning existing corridor, build 14 kilometres of additional track, upgrading 2 stations with new platforms, lifts, lighting and parking

·completion expected mid 2009

Member for Glasshouse Carolyn Male said the new rail corridor would bring big benefits to the community.

"There'll be significant time savings and greater frequency of service during peak periods," Ms Male said.

"Commuters will save eight minutes between Caboolture and Landsborough on the Citytrain or Travel Train, and there'll be further savings in their hip pocket through motor vehicle operating costs.

"Citytrains will be able to operate at 140 km/hr and the tilt train at 160 km/hr.

"Freight services will also be improved with a wider corridor being built and two maintenance access tracks," Ms Male said.

Mr Lucas said the new rail link would help rail services keep pace with the SunshineCoast's population growth which is expected to increase to over 420,000 in the next 20 years.

"It's estimated this growth will lead to an increase of about half a million trips a day," Ms Male said.

"The 17 kilometre long corridor also has the capacity to accommodate up to four tracks if growth in demand beyond 2026 warrants it.

"The Beerburrum to Landsborough rail corridor will improve existing curves and use as much of the existing corridor as possible," Ms Male said.

[ozbob]

Yes, I am very pleased with the LNP announcement.  I have done numerous trips to the SC for strategy meetings over the years.  FF has been tireless in his advocacy, time and personal financial commitment.  We have both done numerous interviews.  We even conducted a press conference at Nambour near the station which FF and I took part in.  Sage support of Stillwater has also been crucial. Support from all here too has been important.  Thanks!

So here is a song for FF & Stillwater.  Yes there is much to do, but sometimes it is a good thing to acknowledge the gains as well. Enjoy!

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Labor queries LNP's intent on rail line

NINE years after the Labor Party's promise to duplicate the rail line from Brisbane to Landsborough, another political party is committing to ensure its delivery.

Premier Campbell Newman visited the Coast on Monday to outline details of the $532 million planned duplication, which was revealed in yesterday's Daily.

He revealed less than 30 homes would be affected by resumptions along the route and said the owners of those homes had long been aware of the plan.

The project, which he said would start this year if the LNP was elected, would be finished "by 2019" and deliver 3000 jobs during construction.

Sunshine Coast Destination Limited chief executive Simon Ambrose welcomed the announcement and called on all parties to "put tourism at the top of their priorities".

Mr Ambrose said the rail upgrade would help commuters, but it was "equally important to support infrastructure projects" that would "bring interstate and international visitors to the Sunshine Coast".

"Our tourism infrastructure priorities are the upgrading of the Bruce Hwy to six lanes and expanding the runway at Sunshine Coast Airport," he said.

"The plunge in petrol prices offers vast potential for re-building the drive market from interstate and regional areas of Queensland, but bottlenecks seriously affect car travel from the south."

Member for Maroochydore Fiona Simpson said the upgrading of the Bruce Hwy was largely a Federal Government responsibility, although planned upgrades along the route were already under way.

Former Transport Minister Paul Lucas promised the duplication of the railway line between Caboolture and Landsborough in 2006, but former Premier Anna Bligh stopped the upgrade at Beerburrum three weeks after the 2009 state election.

The Labor Party does not appear to be including any promises of an upgrade if elected on January 31.

Candidate for Glass House Brent Hampstead and candidate for Caloundra Jason Hunt instead argued that promises reliant on asset sales could not be believed.

"Jason Hunt and I will fight to have the Sunshine Coast rail duplication put back on Labor's infrastructure agenda, to ensure this vital project is allocated proper, solid funding when the funds become available," Mr Hampstead said.

Palmer United Party Queensland leader John Bjelke-Petersen was not aware of a planned rail upgrades in his party's platform and chose to focus on how the LNP was "blackmailing" the Sunshine Coast over asset leases.

[Stillwater]

^^ Labor hasn't got a leg to stand on.  Thanks for publishing Mr Lucas' media statement, Ozbob.  They made a clear promise to duplicate B-L, even appointed a contractor, and reneged on the undertaking.  Statements in recent days are politicking.

Many reasons to celebrate following LNP commitment of funds (subject to asset sales, it has to be acknowledged), and maybe time for a celebratory beer in the back bar of the Landsborough Pub after the election.

The case for the Sunshine Coast Line upgrade was proven in myriad, credible reports to government.  The momentum for further rail upgrades on the Sunshine Coast will revolve around two issues, both having to do with funding by non-state sources, or not exclusively by the state government.

Within government, there is a re-examination of CAMCOS rail, possibly linked to the development of Caloundra South by Stockland.  A review of the CAMCOS corridor is underway.  This from the Property Council website (April 2014):

"Assistant Minister for Public Transport, Steve Minnikin MP, confirmed that delivery of the rail line between Caboolture and Maroochydore (CAMCOS) is still on the Queensland Government's agenda... however the Government will be investigating innovative ways to deliver the project, particularly utilising private sector knowledge and funding."

Full report: https://www.propertyoz.com.au/sa/Article/NewsDetail.aspx?p=16&id=9173

The report also said that the State was looking beyond commuter transport, and had begun conversations with the Australian Rail Track Corporation on delivering a North Coast Freight Line.  Clearly, the state government sees commercial funding from the Australian Rail Track Corporation – a company whose shares are owned 100 per cent by the federal government – as being part of the solution for track duplication and upgrades north of Landsborough.

RailBOT has stated its position in a media release issued in February 2014:
https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/684690701593679

Here is the Queensland Rail perspective: http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/aboutus/mediacentre/pages/regionalnetworkartcreview.aspx

The Commonwealth is seeking to differentiate between providing increased rail capacity for freight purposes and the operation of passenger rail services in conjunction with rail freight on an augmented network.  Passenger rail on freight lines is regarded as a 'community service obligation', (CSO) which the feds would expect to be a cost to QR and the state should the ARTC take over management of the North Coast Line.

'CSO' is a term that the federal Infrastructure Minister, Mr Truss, uses: http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/qld-rail-national-network/2180707/

Mr Truss' media statement :
http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/wt/releases/2014/February/wt020_2014.aspx

January was the proposed date for releasing the findings of the joint QR and ARTC investigation into the feasibility of the ARTC assuming management and control of selected Queensland freight lines.  That has probably been delayed at least a month, until after the election.

The possible ARTC lease of Queensland's rail freight network remains one of the least scrutinised aspects of the Queensland Government's asset sell-off planning.

[#Metro]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-13/queensland-election-sunshine-coast-rail-promise-lnp/6014300

I get irritated when people make up bullsh*t.

Mr Newman criticised Labor for promising the upgrade in 2009 before they "walked away from it".

Labor said it would have delivered the project if it had remained in office.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson said the infrastructure project was vital and long overdue.

"Everyone on the Sunshine Coast knows the history of this, that Labor promised to do it and they scrapped it just weeks after the 2009 election," Mr Emerson said.

"Today's a great day for the people on the coast, this project will go ahead under the LNP Government."

Red Team won the 2009 Election, had 3 years to do something. Clearly scrapped because it was a blue team safe seat IMHO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensland_state_election,_2009

Same with the rail timetabling - did all the work, but then didn't implement it! Didn't even bother to announce intention to introduce upgrades or anything.

Red team need to fire all their PT advisors. They are clearly NOT with the program.

[ozbob]

Labor appears to have not learned a thing ...  oh. fuking. dear.

[Stillwater]

Let the ALP deny what they said:

Paul Lucas Media statement, Monday 29 August 2005

"The rail line between Caboolture and Beerburrum will undergo a major upgrade, cutting travel times by 30 percent for all travellers using the line.

"Funding of $262.4 million has been provided for a new rail corridor for that 14 kilometre section. It will be completed by mid 2009," he said.

Mr Lucas also released for public comment the government's preferred rail corridor - an upgrade of a further 17 kilometres from Beerburrum to Landsborough.

To deliver both these important projects, the Beattie Government has made a total commitment of $480 million.

"The upgrade of the entire section between Caboolture and Landsborough seals the Beattie Government's promise to build a $1 billion fast passenger rail service along the CAMCOS corridor," he said.

"We will establish the line from Beerwah to Caloundra by 2015, and up the coast to Maroochydore by 2020, bringing rail to the Sunshine Coast."

Full statement: http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/Id/42417

[Fares_Fair]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-13/queensland-election-sunshine-coast-rail-promise-lnp/6014300

I get irritated when people make up bullsh*t.

Mr Newman criticised Labor for promising the upgrade in 2009 before they "walked away from it".

Labor said it would have delivered the project if it had remained in office.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson said the infrastructure project was vital and long overdue.

"Everyone on the Sunshine Coast knows the history of this, that Labor promised to do it and they scrapped it just weeks after the 2009 election," Mr Emerson said.

"Today's a great day for the people on the coast, this project will go ahead under the LNP Government."

Red Team won the 2009 Election, had 3 years to do something. Clearly scrapped because it was a blue team safe seat IMHO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensland_state_election,_2009

Same with the rail timetabling - did all the work, but then didn't implement it! Didn't even bother to announce intention to introduce upgrades or anything.

Red team need to fire all their PT advisors. They are clearly NOT with the program.

I met with Annastacia Palaszczuk MP, then Transport Minister on 30th August 2011 and gave to her my Sunshine Coast Case Report.
It is identical to the very first thread of this topic posting.

In it, I mention the promise by Paul Lucas MP to complete the works to Landsborough by mid-2012.
It called for action...  and nothing happened.

Red team's response is all documented in this thread, as it occurred.

I can understand that all political parties make errors based on lack of knowledge - but this is blatanly untrue and a clear distortion of the facts.
It was part of a long-term (unfunded) plan.. that is true.
My letter shows there were other priorities and the Sunshine Coast (back then) wasn't one of them.
Looks like it still isn't.



Hi SW,
I was told that they (the government) would respond to my report.
I am unaware what form this response may take.
The Minister said that there were a couple of points worth looking into.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

Quote from: Fares_Fair on December 10, 2011, 05:40:12 PM



Quote from: Stillwater on December 10, 2011, 05:32:03 PM


FF, has the Minister replied to your representations yet?  It is over three and a half months since the meeting at which she promised a response.




I have received no reply whatsoever to my original report delivered 14 & 1/2 weeks ago,
nor have I received an answer to my correspondence of 5 & 1/2 weeks ago today, asking when I may receive a reply.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.



Today (exactly 15 weeks later) I received a reply to my Sunshine Coast Case report ministerial meeting.

In summary, the Minister thanked me for meeting with her and for my efforts in compiling it, and for my advocacy for the North Coast Line.
The Minister said that the State Government recognises the importance of this section of the rail network.
She reiterated that the Beerburrum to Landsborough duplication is to be delivered by 2021.
Planning plans quoted for these works e.g. Connecting SEQ 2031 and the Queensland Infrastructure Plan.
CRR noted as having broader benefits for the whole SEQ rail network, including the Sunshine Coast.
Subject to Government priorities etc.
Limited funding environment by reconstruction for floods and cyclones etc.

The Minister personally signed the letter, was a nice touch.

Unfortunately, no joy in it for the Sunshine Coast.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

EDIT: 13.12.2011 at 8:00pm- Read letter first hand and expanded this post.

[red dragin]

Does the upgrade to Landsborough benefit freight in anyway?

Or does the upgrade allow for more funding to be allocated to the really bad areas by removing minor (cheaper) bottlenecks with an added political and social benefit?

[#Metro]

Found it ---> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10964.msg146556#msg146556

Public Transport

7.55 Labor will maintain Queensland Rail and Brisbane Transport as vertically integrated, publicly owned providers of public transport services.

7.56 Labor will build an inner city rail solution consistent with the Cross River Rail capacity outcome as part of a broader vision to revitalise and transform rail services. It will increase frequency and provide more express services. It will also deliver new links, including to Kippa-Ring, Flagstone, Ripley, Coolangatta, Maroochydore and through the North West Rail Link along the Trouts Road corridor, consistent with the SEQ Connecting 2031 transport strategy.

7.57 Labor will extend Brisbane's world-class busway network, including completing the Eastern and Northern Busways and CoastConnect on the Sunshine Coast, and rolling out more high frequency routes and bus priority lanes.

7.58 Labor will complete the Gold Coast light rail from Helensvale to Coolangatta and consider the feasibility of light rail in other corridors.

7.59 Labor will upgrade public transport stops and station infrastructure to ensure safety, accessibility, amenity and additional park and ride facilities for those who use and operate the system.

7.60 Labor will maintain public transport concessions and extend them to recipients of the Newstart allowance.

7.61 Labor will continue to subsidise and improve public transport services, including in provincial centres, with a funding requirement being world's best practice by contractors.

7.62 Labor will review the public transport fare system to improve affordability in South East Queensland.

7.63 Labor will ensure that all communities have access to public transport services to connect them to the rest of Queensland, including Traveltrain and long distance bus and air services.

7.64 Labor will release regular public reports against both performance measures and funding provided for all subsidised public transport services.

[Fares_Fair]

Does the upgrade to Landsborough benefit freight in anyway?

Or does the upgrade allow for more funding to be allocated to the really bad areas by removing minor (cheaper) bottlenecks with an added political and social benefit?

Yes, it does.
It improves access to the Port of Brisbane, from Landsborough.

[Fares_Fair]

Quote from: Fares_Fair on December 10, 2011, 05:40:12 PM



Quote from: Stillwater on December 10, 2011, 05:32:03 PM


FF, has the Minister replied to your representations yet?  It is over three and a half months since the meeting at which she promised a response.




I have received no reply whatsoever to my original report delivered 14 & 1/2 weeks ago,
nor have I received an answer to my correspondence of 5 & 1/2 weeks ago today, asking when I may receive a reply.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.



Today (exactly 15 weeks later) I received a reply to my Sunshine Coast Case report ministerial meeting.

In summary, the Minister thanked me for meeting with her and for my efforts in compiling it, and for my advocacy for the North Coast Line.
The Minister said that the State Government recognises the importance of this section of the rail network.
She reiterated that the Beerburrum to Landsborough duplication is to be delivered by 2021.
Planning plans quoted for these works e.g. Connecting SEQ 2031 and the Queensland Infrastructure Plan.
CRR noted as having broader benefits for the whole SEQ rail network, including the Sunshine Coast.
Subject to Government priorities etc.
Limited funding environment by reconstruction for floods and cyclones etc.

The Minister personally signed the letter, was a nice touch.

Unfortunately, no joy in it for the Sunshine Coast.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

EDIT: 13.12.2011 at 8:00pm- Read letter first hand and expanded this post.

You know what, this is just history.
Ms Trad was wrong about intending to continue the works imminently, I choose to move on.

Rail duplication to Landsborough will happen, and start soon.
That's what matters.

[dancingmongoose]

Rail duplication to Landsborough will happen, and start soon.
That's what matters.

I'm not too sure about that because Labor are yet to match it. Unless I missed it?

[Fares_Fair]

Rail duplication to Landsborough will happen, and start soon.
That's what matters.

I'm not too sure about that because Labor are yet to match it. Unless I missed it?

No, you haven't.
I should clarify it thus:

I stated my personal opinion to the Qld Premier in a community cabinet meeting on 22 June 2014, that the leasing of state assets was preferable to sales.
Little did I know that the entire emphasis would change from sales to 50 and up to 99 year long-term leases, a couple of months later.
We get to use the money from the long-term asset lease for this major infrastructure work, with the asset returning to the state in the future.
We are then left with the much needed infrastructure and the asset's return to the State in the distant future.
That's a win-win situation, in my personal opinion.

It's subject to the LNP winning the 31 January election and the mandate for long-term leases.
The State gaining $8.6 billion in infrastruture funding out of the expected $37 billion (reports this figure is conservative) from the long term lease of assets.

I received a personal assurance that work would begin immediately (after the election was the inferred context).

[Stillwater]

The pundits are predicting an LNP win, ALP won't have a say.  Besides, there is plenty of evidence to show they support B-L-N duplication.  I am with FF, Labor 2015 is trying some lame excuses for inaction in the past.  The reality is that work on the B-L duplication will start almost immediately after the election.  We can thank a Labor government for ensuring that the planning was done, even if they didn't proceed with duplication north of Beerburrum.  LNP win means that work will proceed.  Let's see whether, at the election scheduled for 2018, which parties commit to Landsborough-Nambour duplication, because that is where the battle lines have moved to.  I think there will be some movement around L-N upgrade before then, having to do with the ARTC lease of Queensland rail freight lines, something now under active consideration.

[Fares_Fair]

Yes, I am very pleased with the LNP announcement.  I have done numerous trips to the SC for strategy meetings over the years.  FF has been tireless in his advocacy, time and personal financial commitment.  We have both done numerous interviews.  We even conducted a press conference at Nambour near the station which FF and I took part in.  Sage support of Stillwater has also been crucial. Support from all here too has been important.  Thanks!

So here is a song for FF & Stillwater.  Yes there is much to do, but sometimes it is a good thing to acknowledge the gains as well. Enjoy!

Great song ... thank you team 

[BrizCommuter]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.

How on earth do you make that calculation? The NGR order is 75 6 car trains  (total 450 cars);  there are 87 EMUs (all 3 car) still in service (total 261 cars). It's technically a net reduction in independent train sets, but most EMUs are run coupled, many of them permanently, so in practice it's a net increase.


Edit: hmm, I suppose it really does depend on the  proportion of single to double EMUs. Suppose 2/3 of them are usually run coupled that's still about 60 services can be formed (and only 15 'extra trains').

Add up all of the gaps in the current peak timetables due to lack of trains (of which there are quite a lot), converting existing 3 car peak services to 6 car, then add requirements for MBRL, then minus 43.5 6-car equivalent EMUs and the ICEs = not many of the 75 6-car NGR trains remaining!

Not all of the EMUs are being phased out, some are still around for a long while yet.

Source?

[Arnz]

^ Those within this forum that are privvy to that information.  One even backed me up on what was said earlier, although his views on future services are just views.

I think youre overestimating the amount of rollingstock and service patterns needed. If this actually does go ahead by the time its up and running I would not be surprised to eventually see Ipswich-Caboolture trains become express Ipswich-Landsborough services on a 2tph frequency with the deletion of all off peak direct Nambour services (excluding Gympie North services should they be retained). Nambour will become a off peak shuttle more than likely done with a 3 car service. Kippa Ring-Springfield will be 4tph all stoppers taking up the bulk running. The NGR project will not be replacing any EMUs until they have finished their initial order which is something like an additional 30x 6 car units. Once that has been done the EMUs will be phased out as each new NGR unit is accepted by QR.  That's also dependant on stabling facilities which are in the pipeline at Banyo, Thornside?, Kippa Ring, Woombye and a few other proposed locations.

[petey3801]

^ Those within this forum that are privvy to that information.  One even backed me up on what was said earlier, although his views on future services are just views.

I think youre overestimating the amount of rollingstock and service patterns needed. If this actually does go ahead by the time its up and running I would not be surprised to eventually see Ipswich-Caboolture trains become express Ipswich-Landsborough services on a 2tph frequency with the deletion of all off peak direct Nambour services (excluding Gympie North services should they be retained). Nambour will become a off peak shuttle more than likely done with a 3 car service. Kippa Ring-Springfield will be 4tph all stoppers taking up the bulk running. The NGR project will not be replacing any EMUs until they have finished their initial order which is something like an additional 30x 6 car units. Once that has been done the EMUs will be phased out as each new NGR unit is accepted by QR.  That's also dependant on stabling facilities which are in the pipeline at Banyo, Thornside?, Kippa Ring, Woombye and a few other proposed locations.

That will still leave 45 6-car units to replace the EMUs. As far as I am aware, all EMUs will be retired once the NGR units have finished being delivered. The 200 series SMUs are also quite likely on the retirement list as well.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Also on 2) and 3), Briz, by the time this duplication is finished (2019) we'll have the NGR trains in service.

Assuming the EMUs will be replaced, then not enough NGR trains have been ordered to meet existing requirements + MBRL, let alone additional Sunshine Coast services.

How on earth do you make that calculation? The NGR order is 75 6 car trains  (total 450 cars);  there are 87 EMUs (all 3 car) still in service (total 261 cars). It's technically a net reduction in independent train sets, but most EMUs are run coupled, many of them permanently, so in practice it's a net increase.


Edit: hmm, I suppose it really does depend on the  proportion of single to double EMUs. Suppose 2/3 of them are usually run coupled that's still about 60 services can be formed (and only 15 'extra trains').

Add up all of the gaps in the current peak timetables due to lack of trains (of which there are quite a lot), converting existing 3 car peak services to 6 car, then add requirements for MBRL, then minus 43.5 6-car equivalent EMUs and the ICEs = not many of the 75 6-car NGR trains remaining!

Not all of the EMUs are being phased out, some are still around for a long while yet.

Source?

Not sure about other peoples sources/if they are referring to still having the EMUs running after the delivery of the NGR trains but as far as I know all the EMU's will be retained until the completed delivery of the first stage of the NGR delivery - which is to add additional capacity for the new lines/additional frequency/etc etc etc. Once that has been completed the EMUs will slowly be withdrawn as the second stage replaces the EMUs with the remaining 44 or so sets which is dependant on stabling (and on the removal tender/purchaser agreement etc). IIRC I think there was also a third stage option at a later date which was an additional NGR order dependant on a few new lines planned/considered at the time such as the Gold Coast line/CRR/NWTC/Manly 3rd platform/etc. What many people don't know are that the EMUs are still good working trains to the public but the mtce work/costs on them is getting worse and worse especially when it comes to sourcing parts for the aging fleet. Some things have been changed or modified over the years to prevent the costs blowing out but they are reaching that age. The amount of spare parts is also an issue as so many things aren't interchangeable between the different rollingstock. The older SMU's have already have fallen into the same category as the EMUs especially when it comes to their electronic systems.

[SurfRail]

LNP win means that work will proceed.

The only thing that means work will proceed is when a contract is signed.  Before that, and given that both sides have form, I have no faith in anything they say.

[ozbob]

Campbell Newman and the Strong LNP Team in Landsborough

[Stillwater]

^^ You are correct to be cautious SurfRail. 

[mufreight]

If the LNP are re-elected under Newman the start of any work on the NCL duplication will not happen until about 6 months before the next election.  Should Labor take power the probability is that they will start actual construction within six months of taking government with work commencing on the Glasshouse - Beerburrum section.

[Stillwater]

Do you have inside knowledge, Mufreight?  Will this be part of a wider ALP transport policy.  It is likely to be a crowded next two weeks as the various parties release their policies.

[Arnz]

^

I would guess not, like the majority of people here including me, his is just one of many opinions. *Stays out of the political ramblings*