The Sunshine Coast Case : Rail duplication Beerburrum to Nambour

[Fares_Fair]

https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ/status/1339424840302915586

[Fares_Fair]

https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ/status/1339436657204994048

[achiruel]

Honestly, asking someone to choose between the current SC timetable and the 2014 one is like putting two steaming turds on a plate and asking you which one you'd rather eat.

The reality is, SC commuters have been fed lies by the current and previous State Governments about the timetable and extent of duplication, and the number of services they receive.

There should be hourly off-peak services, at least during the daytime; there needs to be later night services, especially on Saturday nights (last train ex Central at 8:37pm, not much use if you want to have a night out in town, and the last service on weekdays is 11:37). There needs to be one at least this late on Saturdays, and maybe an even later one on Fridays and Saturdays.

These considerations need to be met, and soon!

The other big issue is the duplication. It must not be permitted to finish at Beerwah, and must continue to at least Landsborough North. As for whether it is required beyond there, I would think CAMCOS is a more pressing priority, and patronage from stations north of Beerwah will likely decline significantly once CAMCOS is built. However, I do think beyond Landsborough North should probably be re-aligned, with minimum 1500m passing loops and space left in the corridor for future duplication. The main benefit I see in upgrading the track beyond Landsborough North is for freight, not passenger services. Let's be realistic, Nambour-Beerwah will probably be a shuttle after CAMCOS anyway.

Regarding Nambour-Gympie North, I'm not sure exactly what level of service is required, but I would like to see at least one earlier morning service, probably an extension of the 5:26am ex Nambour service. The reason being, is that having specialist appointments at the RBWH from 8am is not all that uncommon, and currently people from north of Nambour either have to drive or stay overnight. This would allow them to get to Fortitude Valley at 7:12am, with ample time to transfer to a bus to RBWH and find their way around the fairly large campus to get to their appointments on time.

That's my 2¢, anyway.

[ozbob]

^ well put.

[Fares_Fair]

Honestly, asking someone to choose between the current SC timetable and the 2014 one is like putting two steaming turds on a plate and asking you which one you'd rather eat.

The reality is, SC commuters have been fed lies by the current and previous State Governments about the timetable and extent of duplication, and the number of services they receive.

There should be hourly off-peak services, at least during the daytime; there needs to be later night services, especially on Saturday nights (last train ex Central at 8:37pm, not much use if you want to have a night out in town, and the last service on weekdays is 11:37). There needs to be one at least this late on Saturdays, and maybe an even later one on Fridays and Saturdays.

These considerations need to be met, and soon!

The other big issue is the duplication. It must not be permitted to finish at Beerwah, and must continue to at least Landsborough North. As for whether it is required beyond there, I would think CAMCOS is a more pressing priority, and patronage from stations north of Beerwah will likely decline significantly once CAMCOS is built. However, I do think beyond Landsborough North should probably be re-aligned, with minimum 1500m passing loops and space left in the corridor for future duplication. The main benefit I see in upgrading the track beyond Landsborough North is for freight, not passenger services. Let's be realistic, Nambour-Beerwah will probably be a shuttle after CAMCOS anyway.

Regarding Nambour-Gympie North, I'm not sure exactly what level of service is required, but I would like to see at least one earlier morning service, probably an extension of the 5:26am ex Nambour service. The reason being, is that having specialist appointments at the RBWH from 8am is not all that uncommon, and currently people from north of Nambour either have to drive or stay overnight. This would allow them to get to Fortitude Valley at 7:12am, with ample time to transfer to a bus to RBWH and find their way around the fairly large campus to get to their appointments on time.

That's my 2¢, anyway.

Worth much more than that.
I may not agree with all of it, but someone gets it at last.
Thank you Achiruel.

[Gazza]

Ok so if the two time tables are equivalent, why make out that the 2014 was "better"?

[JimmyP]

I wasn't asking anyone to pick between the two, I asked a genuine question as to which one someone who actually uses the line prefers, right here, right now.
I know all too well that the SC line timetable is shite, i've got no intention of saying 'this is what you've got, deal with it' etc.
I am genuinely curious as to whether FF would prefer the current timetable that involves more trains, all of which are express, but less overall services, or whether he prefers the older one with more services, even if they are a bit less desireable. No derision, so 'suck it up' etc., just pure curiosity, leading from the earlier tweets.
I raise this question as, personally, I believe the current timetable is better than the old one, even with less overall services, simply due to a much higher quality of services overall and faster journey times for the most part vs the old one. A lot is still left to be desired, but it's an improvement IMO. But I don't use the line regularly, therefore I was hoping to get the opinion of someone who does use the service regularly. This is a discussion forum, after all...

CAMCOS is most certainly better bang for buck from a passenger sense than continuing the duplication further north IMO. However, for freight purposes and overall connectivity, more work on realignments, longer crossing loops etc. does need to be done all the way up the coast to Cairns.

[achiruel]

CAMCOS is most certainly better bang for buck from a passenger sense than continuing the duplication further north IMO. However, for freight purposes and overall connectivity, more work on realignments, longer crossing loops etc. does need to be done all the way up the coast to Cairns.

Not sure if it needs to go all the way to Cairns but definitely to Townsville. Freight volumes beyond Townsville are fairly small from what I understand and probably don't need a lot of upgrades. Not sure if there's much sense in running 1500m container trains to Cairns.

[JimmyP]

1500m loops north of Townsville wouldn't be a major priority right now, but later in the future would be good. North of Townsville for the mid-term future would focus more on speed enhancements and curve easing etc., as speeds are pretty poor up there.

[Fares_Fair]

Current plans cater for just 950m freight trains up to Cairns.
Works are occurring between Rockhampton and Townsville to allow that to occur.
4 loop extensions have been completed, 4 left to go.

After B2N stage 2 (which has NO funding whatsoever, at this time) freight trains of 950m will be catered for on the NCL).
1500m long trains are a distant pipe dream.

[Fares_Fair]

I wasn't asking anyone to pick between the two, I asked a genuine question as to which one someone who actually uses the line prefers, right here, right now.
I know all too well that the SC line timetable is shite, i've got no intention of saying 'this is what you've got, deal with it' etc.
I am genuinely curious as to whether FF would prefer the current timetable that involves more trains, all of which are express, but less overall services, or whether he prefers the older one with more services, even if they are a bit less desireable. No derision, so 'suck it up' etc., just pure curiosity, leading from the earlier tweets.
I raise this question as, personally, I believe the current timetable is better than the old one, even with less overall services, simply due to a much higher quality of services overall and faster journey times for the most part vs the old one. A lot is still left to be desired, but it's an improvement IMO. But I don't use the line regularly, therefore I was hoping to get the opinion of someone who does use the service regularly. This is a discussion forum, after all...

CAMCOS is most certainly better bang for buck from a passenger sense than continuing the duplication further north IMO. However, for freight purposes and overall connectivity, more work on realignments, longer crossing loops etc. does need to be done all the way up the coast to Cairns.

Hi JimmyP

From memory the Oct 2016 draft timetable for the Sunshine Coast was never implemented due to the 4 October 2016 #RailFail - though the true collapse started on 30 September that year as Ozbob has rightly has pointed out.

In Jan 2017 we got 2 new (daily) trains (which replaced 2 daily rail busses from Caboolture to Nambour) and lost 11 (week day) rail buses.
The 2 trains we did get are extensions from Caboolture to Nambour.
We have literally HALF the numbers of trains (including 23% of all services that are rail busses) that the Redcliffe Peninsula Line opened with.
650 compared to our pathetic 325.
We have 39 less services than we had in 2014.

For a region our size, I am not going to debate the worth of one timetable over another given the total picture of (____) as Achiruel so aptly described.
Gympie North hasn't had a new service for 10 years as of 2021. It has 2 per day.

I hope you see my (sort of) answer in this.

[Fares_Fair]

https://twitter.com/Jeffrey_Addison/status/1340098640879075329

https://twitter.com/SpencerHowson/status/1340128764303327234

[#Metro]

Wow, he sounds like a keen bean!

Perhaps you could also ask him about discussing the North West Transport Corridor and options around that.

[Gazza]

I wasn't asking anyone to pick between the two, I asked a genuine question as to which one someone who actually uses the line prefers, right here, right now.
I know all too well that the SC line timetable is shite, i've got no intention of saying 'this is what you've got, deal with it' etc.
I am genuinely curious as to whether FF would prefer the current timetable that involves more trains, all of which are express, but less overall services, or whether he prefers the older one with more services, even if they are a bit less desireable. No derision, so 'suck it up' etc., just pure curiosity, leading from the earlier tweets.
I raise this question as, personally, I believe the current timetable is better than the old one, even with less overall services, simply due to a much higher quality of services overall and faster journey times for the most part vs the old one. A lot is still left to be desired, but it's an improvement IMO. But I don't use the line regularly, therefore I was hoping to get the opinion of someone who does use the service regularly. This is a discussion forum, after all...

CAMCOS is most certainly better bang for buck from a passenger sense than continuing the duplication further north IMO. However, for freight purposes and overall connectivity, more work on realignments, longer crossing loops etc. does need to be done all the way up the coast to Cairns.

Hi JimmyP

From memory the Oct 2016 draft timetable for the Sunshine Coast was never implemented due to the 4 October 2016 #RailFail - though the true collapse started on 30 September that year as Ozbob has rightly has pointed out.

In Jan 2017 we got 2 new (daily) trains (which replaced 2 daily rail busses from Caboolture to Nambour) and lost 11 (week day) rail buses.
The 2 trains we did get are extensions from Caboolture to Nambour.
We have literally HALF the numbers of trains (including 23% of all services that are rail busses) that the Redcliffe Peninsula Line opened with.
650 compared to our pathetic 325.
We have 39 less services than we had in 2014.

For a region our size, I am not going to debate the worth of one timetable over another given the total picture of (____) as Achiruel so aptly described.
Gympie North hasn't had a new service for 10 years as of 2021. It has 2 per day.

I hope you see my (sort of) answer in this.

The Redcliffe line opened with double the number of services for a couple of reasons.

-the line is shorter so you can cycle trains between the city and Kippa Ring quicker, so you can squeeze more runs for the same resources

-in order to give the Sunshine coast a full time express service, it means stations between Petrie and Northgate need to be skipped.

Therefore a substitute service for those stations needs to provide enough capacity  to offset the Caboolture trains that no longer stop there.

The Redcliffe line is not just the 6 stations on the branch, its the whole strip, encompassing commuter suburbs like Strathpine, Bald Hills, Geebung, Zillmere etc, and those suburbs generate higher demand due a higher proportion of residents working or studying in the CBD and inner ring compared to areas further north

[Fares_Fair]

Wow, he sounds like a keen bean!

Perhaps you could also ask him about discussing the North West Transport Corridor and options around that.

Thank you #Metro.
It's probably a bit too far off to be of value in a rail duplication discussion which will be focused on the current situation.
I am well aware of its value in improving services to the north.
I asked for it to be included (assessed) in the Fast Rail Business Case - and it was.

[achiruel]

I'm not sure if it's possible given the current limitations on rollingstock, crew and track capacity, but would there be any value in having a 3-tiered off-peak service on the NCL?

90 minutes Nambour
60 minutes Landsborough
30 minutes Caboolture

This would at least give extra service to half of the line, and a lot of buses connect at Landsborough to Caloundra, SCU, SCUH, etc.

I'm not thinking of this as a long-term solution, but it could (hopefully) be implemented more easily than a full 60 minutes Nambour service.

[Fares_Fair]

90 minutes throughout the day is our current weekday level of service from Nambour.
It's 120 minutes on weekends.
No point trying to get people to use a service that allows you to drive to Brisbane between trains.

[ozbob]

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2020/1101-2020.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 1101

Asked on 1 December 2020

MR A POWELL ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

Will the Minister list, by lot and plan number, all properties fully purchased, partially purchased or
earmarked for purchase between Beerburrum and Nambour for the purposes of the North Coast
Rail Duplication?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Glass House for the question.

The Palaszczuk Government is committed to delivering the Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade
(B2N) project to improve capacity, safety, efficiency and reliability of the North Coast rail line.
The Australian and Queensland governments have committed $550.8 million towards Stage 1 of
the B2N project, with $390 million Australian Government funding and $160.8 million Queensland
Government funding. The former Newman LNP government, which the Member was part of, did
not even fund a business case and achieved zero to advance the project over its three-year term.
In contrast, it was the Palaszczuk Labor Government that started, funded and completed the
business case, and received Australian Government funding. It will be delivered in stages to
provide immediate community benefits in Stage 1 while investigating funding options for future
stages. Stage 1 of the B2N will deliver three new bridges, expand three park 'n' ride facilities and
duplicate the section of rail track between Beerburrum and Beerwah.

Unfortunately, to progress this important transport infrastructure, properties have been impacted
and either fully or partially resumed. A total of 18 properties have been acquired for Stage 1 works
as part of the early acquisition process. A further 10 properties will be fully resumed with an
additional 17 properties partially resumed.

Stage 2 of the B2N project remains unfunded, however, 13 properties have been earmarked for
possible resumptions in the future. Further works are required to ascertain if these properties will
be required.

Property resumptions are a sensitive but necessary part of building new infrastructure, with each
case approached with the utmost compassion. There is a legal process in place to ensure
property owners are compensated fairly when land resumptions are required.
Compensation for land and property resumptions is based on the market value of the property at
the date of acquisition and includes legal, valuation and relocation costs, in accordance with the
Acquisition of Land Act 1967.

The Palaszczuk Government has hit the ground running since being re-elected, with the first
contract now awarded to complete early works as part of the B2N project. Early works will start
in early 2021 and include realigning a one-kilometre section of Steve Irwin Way and increasing
car parking capacity at Landsborough and Nambour park 'n' rides.

It was the Palaszczuk Labor Government that got this project moving again by completing the
planning and submitting a business case to the Australian Government, after the former Newman
LNP government failed to progress the project. Public transport on the Sunshine Coast
languished under the LNP, and it is the Palaszczuk Labor Government that has a serious plan,
backed up with actions like the Beerburrum to Nambour rail upgrade, which is delivering for the
region.

The recently released Queensland Transport and Roads Investment Program 2020–21 to 2023–24
represents a record investment in road and transport infrastructure for the fifth year in a row, with
$26.9 billion committed over the next four years, supporting an average of approximately 23,600
direct jobs over the life of the program. Approximately $3.612 billion is committed across the
Department of Transport and Main Roads' North Coast Region, which is estimated to support an
average of approximately 3200 direct jobs over the life of the program.

As part of our COVID-19 economic recovery response, in partnership with the Australian
Government, the Palaszczuk Government has announced $1 billion in new and accelerated
funding for road improvements right across Queensland. This funding injection will deliver freight
efficiency benefits, improve road safety, sustain local jobs and lift the state's economy. Overall,
this $1 billion of investment in road network improvements is estimated to support approximately
1000 jobs.

This includes more than $400 million funding in projects announced by the Palaszczuk
Government for Queensland roads to supercharge the state's economy through the COVID-19
recovery. This was announced as part of Queensland's Economic Recovery Strategy: Unite and
Recover for Queensland Jobs, to help the state recover from COVID-19 with a focus on backing
Queensland jobs. Projects to receive new funding in TMR's North Coast Region as part of the
stimulus package include:

• $18 million for the Six Mile Creek Bridge upgrade along Pomona–Kin Kin Road – estimated
to support an average of 28 direct jobs over the life of the project
• $9.5 million for the Beckmans Road and Cooroy–Noosa Road intersection upgrade –
estimated to support an average of 18 direct jobs over the life of the project
• $3.75 million for the Caloundra Road and Ridgewood Road intersection upgrade –
estimated to support an average of 12 direct jobs over the life of the project.

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Rail duplication design changes worry MP $

The Beerburrum to Nambour rail upgrade is causing confusion in the hinterland with residents reportedly shown an updated design of the project.

Member for Glass House Andrew Powell said he had been left with more questions than answers when it came to the long-awaited upgrade.

He said he wanted to know what was happening with the project. ...

[Stillwater]

Anywhere else in functioning democracies, the political system dictates that the local member is given a briefing on such matters. The only circumstances where information would be withheld is if there was sensitive commercial-in-confidence matters. Powell is being approached by his constituents for answers. It is his job to respond. Unfortunately politics has plagued this project from the outset ... and it continues.

[ozbob]

^ all part of the delay tactics.

The firewall of incompetence!

[Fares_Fair]

These appear to be changes to the 2016 business case alignment, according to the article.

Discussions with the Federal Government.. that could only mean the North Coast Connect Fast Rail proposal is being allowed for.

Edit: Ongoing discussions are about funding. Please ignore this above supposition.

[Fares_Fair]

Anywhere else in functioning democracies, the political system dictates that the local member is given a briefing on such matters. The only circumstances where information would be withheld is if there was sensitive commercial-in-confidence matters. Powell is being approached by his constituents for answers. It is his job to respond. Unfortunately politics has plagued this project from the outset ... and it continues.

You are spot on here SW.
The information that we received in our CRG called updated reference design dated July and November 2020 has not been provided to Andrew Powell MP (Glasshouse).

[Stillwater]

And you are bound by the confidentiality of the CRG.  So it is all about secret doors, not wanting to give 'the other side' a helping hand - politics indeed. Could the LNP get the info by lodging a RTI request? You have confirmed it is available and has been made available to some and not others. It is sheer spiteful madness.

[Fares_Fair]

This B2N CRG is run by TMR and we are allowed to disseminate information to the groups we represent.
Only if something is specifically referred to as being confidential, are we to keep it in house.

We can even speak to the media as an individual so long as it is clear that we do not speak for the CRG group per se.

Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade (B2N)
Community Reference Groups
Terms of Reference

1.9.2.1 Dissemination of information
CRG members are encouraged to discuss issues and disseminate information about the project with
the wider community including their specific interest groups where relevant.

[Stillwater]

Is Mr Powell part of the 'wider community'? I wonder.

[Fares_Fair]

Disappointing to see the MP's are not being given briefings on works that occur within their electorate.
It's looks like politics at play - just trying to make the MP look ignorant and uninformed when his constituents ask him what is going on.

I was hoping the puerile politics was over.

It's time to knuckle down and try and get the best outcome we can for the rail line to Nambour.

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Changes revealed for Sunshine Coast rail duplication $

Changes including a shift in track position and an updated overpass location have been revealed by the State Government in response to community concerns. ...

[Fares_Fair]

Interesting #2tracks words by the Acting Transport Minister, Hon Mark Ryan MP.
From the above posted article.

"Duplicating the rail line to Nambour will be required in future to service the Sunshine Coast's growing population but logically has to follow the rail duplication from Beerburrum to Landsborough being built first," Mr Ryan (Acting TMR Minister) said.

[Stillwater]

^About as logical as his statement that SCL duplication could not proceed until after CRR was finished.

[Gazza]

If money is tight on stage 1 why don't they remove the Landsborough level crossing in preference to the one at barrs Road?

[Fares_Fair]

IMHO, they would be better off not building ALL of the Park-n-Rides (just do Landsborough) and extend the track the ~4km to Landsborough.

[achiruel]

^About as logical as his statement that SCL duplication could not proceed until after CRR was finished.

And particularly irrational considering that the current plan is only for duplication to Beerwah. Does he understand his own portfolio?

[Fares_Fair]

Local Woombye resident reported that around 50 birds had been killed flying into a rail corridor sound barrier wall (with a perspex window for top section).
I reported it to the Environmental Officer for the B2N project who passed the information onto Queensland Rail.

Received a call today at 3:55pm to receive contact details and say that the issue will be resolved by ribbons or stickers or something yet to be determined.
I passed this information onto the property owner concerned.
Thank you QR 

Pictured are some of the bird species killed by the barrier, King Parrots also among the lost.

https://twitter.com/Jeffrey_Addison/status/1356912757514244099

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Coast rail duplication 'might not get past Beerwah' $

A Sunshine Coast rail advocate has urged the State Government to "grow up" and stop playing political games as funding for stage two of the rail duplication remains up in the air.

It comes as Federal MP Andrew Wallace raises concerns there is no appetite from his state counterparts to progress duplication north of Beerwah.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey on Tuesday referred to the duplication as a $550 million project, as opposed to the original $780 million detailed as needed for the full upgrade of the Beerburrum to Nambour line. ...

[achiruel]

Was $780m the price to Nambour at some stage? I thought that might get to Landsborough. No way will Nambour be under $1b, surely?

[Fares_Fair]

No, the $780 million is for the current full 2 stage B2N plan of works (stage 2 unfunded), including full duplication to Landsborough, and passing loop extensions at Landsborough, Eudlo and Woombye, as well as lifts and overbridges at existing stations north of Landsborough, a Park n ride added for Palmwoods.

[achiruel]

Right, so the half-arsed version of the original full duplication/alignment plan.

[Fares_Fair]

Precisely.

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Minister hits back at rail funding fracas

The future of the Sunshine Coast rail duplication remains unknown after Transport Minister Mark Bailey refused to budge on funding for stage two of the works.

The minister threw concerns back to Federal MP Andrew Wallace and said the Member for Fisher needed to "put his money where his mouth is".

The funding debate reignited this week after concerns were raised there was no appetite from the State Government to progress duplication north of Beerwah. ...